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The Mass Effect Community Thread |OT2|

prag16

Banned
Being an "intended" experience does not absolve it from being bad and inefficient. It's not a question of schedules for fucks sake, it's about a system at odds with the game its in.

Again, other games like Witcher, Inquisition, even something like Pokemon can change their 4~ step process of traveling to one that's a dozen steps long by design, that does not absolve it from being bad, it does not absolve it from being inefficient, or unnecessary. Calling it a part of their creative vision is a condemnation of their vision.

Eh. I'm with you. Mostly. But I do think instant warp between random forward stations on completely separate planets would definitely take me out of the experience somewhat. (I'm obviously still in favor of trying to streamline in places... but I don't think being able to just select any forward station in the cluster to instantly teleport to is the right answer.)

Yeah, the multiplanet quests can be annoying, but I generally just completed things in chunks rather than SOLELY following single quest lines at a time. This does bring up the secondary issue of losing "focus" and getting things muddled together in terms of who had to do with what macguffin for what quest, etc.

Definitely subpar design in those areas. But an instant teleport option seems to clash with the world building too much (whereas in DA:I it doesn't quite as much).

EDIT: But again as I've mentioned... it just doesn't seem THAT bad to me in terms of the loading times. Are my times faster than other peoples'? (Would make sense on PC SSD vs. PS4 or something) I just never found myself getting TOO annoyed with this while playing. And I'm one of the people that frequently complains about being unable to complete various games due to time constraints (any MMO, DA:I, TW3, etc.); on a GOOD week I can play 15 hours or so but that's pretty rare; usually closer to 5.
 
There's nothing to absolve because it wasn't made for you specifically.
Comparing it to other games in such a 1:1 fashion is plain foolish because they don't have the same kind of intended experience behind them obviously; there's no different planets in inquisition so there is no need for a complex 3D map, because you won't be "moving" through it anyway to give a "space exploration" feel.

Fast traveling is already an option on the map itself (which I honestly barely use in me:a, because I actually like driving/walking everywhere), but having you warp from planet to planet, makes the entire 3d galaxy map a redundant option, one which clearly isn't in line with the experience the devs want you to have otherwise they wouldn't have made the 3d map in the first place.

And again it doesn't matter if this makes it the less efficient option, it's the option that needs to be to make their design work and, let me rephrase it this time so it becomes more clear, if that doesn't work for you then that's your problem; it was never intended to be the kind of experience you'd enjoy in the first place. I do though, a lot.
 

diaspora

Member
I wish I could use that reasoning with any game with bad design, user experiences, gameplay.

"It wasn't for you."

T2HF2iA.jpg


edit:

Mass Effect 1's gameplay is a trashfire but it is what it is by design. It was still improved.
 

prag16

Banned
Fast traveling is already an option on the map itself (which I honestly barely use in me:a, because I actually like driving/walking everywhere), but having you warp from planet to planet, makes the entire 3d galaxy map a redundant option, one which clearly isn't in line with the experience the devs want you to have otherwise they wouldn't have made the 3d map in the first place.

Yeah I'm on board with the idea that the quest design is... not good at times (too often).

But I honestly found myself wishing I could instantly teleport to another planet's forward station... like MAYBE a couple times in 65 hours? I liked the "space travel" feel and I'm unsure what I would think about things if it was gone; maybe I'd save a little time here and there but I suspect my satisfaction with the game may actually be less. (For people who may have much longer loading times than me maybe this would be different, dunno.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

diaspora

Member
Yeah I'm on board with the idea that the quest design is... not good at times (too often).

But I honestly found myself wishing I could instantly teleport to another planet's forward station... like MAYBE a couple times in 65 hours? I liked the "space travel" feel and I'm unsure what I would think about things if it was gone; maybe I'd save a little time here and there but I suspect my satisfaction with the game may actually be less. (For people who may have much longer loading times than me maybe this would be different, dunno.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Loading times are irrelevant when they're using animations since they're fixed in length. Like, whether or not ME1 or 2 are on an SSD is largely irrelevant since the loading animations and the elevators are fixed in length.
 

prag16

Banned
Loading times are irrelevant when they're using animations since they're fixed in length. Like, whether or not ME1 or 2 are on an SSD is largely irrelevant since the loading animations and the elevators are fixed in length.

Could be. Just trying to figure out how so many people are so much more bothered by this than I am.

Anyway, I'm 100% in favor of changes that will increase the "efficiency" as you put it.

-Emails on omnitool (or AT LEAST at forward stations).
-Increased use of vidcom (probably unrealistic to alter quest designs like this now though)
-Skippable interplanetary animation (already included in patch)
-Board Tempest without going into orbit (unlikely since the animation is likely hiding loading, and they probably can't/won't render both an external planet view and the tempest interior simultaneously)

DA:I style teleporting is the wrong thing to do for this game, in my opinion. Even if it may be more "efficient".
 

diaspora

Member
Could be. Just trying to figure out how so many people are so much more bothered by this than I am.

Anyway, I'm 100% in favor of changes that will increase the "efficiency" as you put it.

-Emails on omnitool (or AT LEAST at forward stations).
-Increased use of vidcom (probably unrealistic to alter quest designs like this now though)
-Skippable interplanetary animation (already included in patch)
-Board Tempest without going into orbit (unlikely since the animation is likely hiding loading, and they probably can't/won't render both an external planet view and the tempest interior simultaneously)

DA:I style teleporting is the wrong thing to do for this game, in my opinion. Even if it may be more "efficient".

I mean, if they had it by all means don't use it >.>

Hell, they could even add on a skippable animation where you can watch the ship go from planet to planet.

But as is, is rather asinine design. IIRC Laidlaw made this exact point where their creative vision for Varric is for Bianca to be iconic and exclusive weapon, but they changed from DA2 to 3 to allow him to use whatever rogue weapon available because even if it goes against their vision of Varric it makes no sense to restrict the player from doing so arbitrarily.
 

Daemul

Member
Th reason I lost interest in finishing Andromeda was due to the amount of padding, like someone said in the this thread earlier, it seemed like Bioware had just added unnecessary stuff to the game to inflate play through numbers for marketing reasons. "This game will take you 100 hours to beat!"

I'm not sure what the point in that was to be honest, the previous games in the trilogy, well, specifically Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, both of which even had their own padding (fucking Planet Scanning), were already much longer than your average game, taking me 45 hours and 53 hours to beat respectively on my most recent playthroughs of them a few weeks before Andromeda came out.

The fact that 40-50 hours (which is extremely long by the way, I was really fatigued after replaying ME2 and ME3 despite enjoying them so much) to finish a game doesn't seem to be seen as a high enough number to be used as an impressive marketing point for a video games length these days worries me. I know that value proposition is a thing, but Jesus Christ, the amount of padding required really isn't worth it imo. Andromeda just doesn't feel as cohesive as the previous two games in the trilogy.
 

prag16

Banned
Yeah, when looking into a game, and seeing "open world" it goes down a notch in my book automatically. If they tout "100 hours!!!" it goes down another notch.

In the case of ME:A I finished it in 65 hours, but it really should have been 30-40 (and that's what my NG+ will be when I get around to it). ME2 and 3 runs were always between 25-30 for me (possibly a bit more more with DLC).

Love the game, but too much padding indeed.
 
Just bought Andromeda on sale for $36 on tuesday and holy moly am I in love. This game revives so much of what made Mass Effect 1 great! Things that were pulled from ME2&3 such as on planet foot traversal, surface exploration vehicle, weapon holstering, sense of exploration and discovery, an actual inventory system, and FILM GRAIN!!

Being a huge fan of ME1 over 2&3, This game is checking all the right boxes and I've already pumped 24 hours into the experience (and only 21% complete to boot!) I hated how ME2 removed surface exploring, and 3 just felt so on rails and I it was a disservice to the greater idea of what the franchise set out to do with the first and second entries.

I will say that it has some obvious issues that have been beaten to death such as a poor character creator and wonky facial animations, but everything else seems pretty much on point for a Mass Effect title. I read lot's of complaints about having to run back and forth between the central "hub" and planets, but for the sake of the theme, it fits.

For me: ME1>MEA>ME2>ME3
 

Madness

Member
Honestly, they needed smaller open world planets you could explore but not settle outposts on, set more of the redudnant sidequests on these world to really bring exploration back and make the main 5 slightly smaller and more linear and less redundant and better designed. Not just random same structure here between points A and B.

Hopefully for the next one it is like 36 months later, more linear paths and the cities have become lively hubs etc. My biggest issue with this game is it feels 'deader' and last gen for some reason. Even the Tempest. Hard to explain what I mean.
 

diaspora

Member
Having open planets doesn't bother me but I'd prefer if they forced some guidance. Go from planets A to B to C to D, etc rather than go anywhere and include quests that force planet jumping.
 

Maledict

Member
I started replaying Inquisition as I really fancied a decent WRPG and I still have all the DLC to play through, and Me was such a disappointment. It's really shocking that the characters in a three year old, cross gen game animate better and have lip syncing. Why aren't Bioware sharing their tech developments across their studios?
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Eh, I don't feel scope/size of planetoids has much to do with my own issues. Same goes for any "open world" game. It's not the scope that matters, it's the content within. The Witcher 3 is gigantic and at no point was I ever bored. Grand Theft Auto V is huge, but I don't really enjoy it beyond a comfy immersion sim. Breath of the Wild is open and makes smart use of its landmass and design.

Again, my personal issue with Andromeda is that the content within simply isn't enthralling. I'm not engaged or excited to explore the content on these open planetoids, and I don't feel they resonate with themes that draw me to open landmass games. I don't necessarily dislike all the content I've experience so far, I just don't feel compelled to explore or traverse the topography as I don't have that desire to see what's over the next hill. The game has failed to captivate me in discovery and adventure, which hurts the draw to explore the landmasses.

I could see how someone would feel otherwise though, and admittedly found myself drawn to Eos in the beginning. I liked the idea of exploring the scattered camp sites and abandoned research stations to piece together what happened. It's just a shame that the "what happened" doesn't amount to anything really interesting to me.

But I also fall into a niche of players who desire balanced negative space to highlight discovery, and actually like moments on Mass Effect 1's barren planetoids over more or less Andromeda's design. I've gone over that a thousand times though, and I can see why BioWare went in this direction. The kind of game I want Mass Effect to be in my head isn't what the series wants to be, and I'm not going to fault BioWare for that.
 

dr_rus

Member
Yeah, after some thinking on this MEA really has failed in the discovery metric as even on Eos I've never felt any urge to explore beyond the beaten paths (anyone thinks it's ironic how "Pathfinder" constantly drives by the roads made by somebody earlier?) between the forward station markers.

In TW3 seeing something on the horizon meant that you tried to reach this place to check it out. In MEA you just ignore them as you learn very fast that there's literally nothing of interest there but some irrelevant log file lying around - or in the worst case just some empty buildings standing there because you haven't triggered some quest's phase where they are used yet.
 
Elladen got the closest to what I want out of an explorable planet. The crashed ship was a great touch.

My biggest problem with the planets in Andreea is that they fall into this weird inbetween of lived in and uncharted. There are settlements, but they're just kinda... There. I never got the sense that there's much going on in them. I get that they shouldn't be bustling with life like the Citadel in ME1 (my favourite location in the series), but I would have liked to see something like the small towns in The Witcher 3. I feel like the game expects you to have an emotional connection to the first outpost on EOS, but I certainly never felt attached to it.

On the other hand - and as others have pointed out - the worlds are lived in and filled with enough stuff that they don't truly feel like you are a Pathfinder. It seems like every question mark/point of interest I find on the map is a small Remnant structure with nothing but a chest. I feel like I'm missing something at them, but that seems to be all there is to them.

I hate to make it seem like all I have to say about the game is negative - there's a lot of things I like about it! I just hope BioWare sees the reception of this game as a major wake-up call. I really hope they seriously reconsider their open world design if they intend to continue with them.
 

Maledict

Member
I do think they sort of ballsed up the premise by not being bold enough, despite how bold the actual Andromeda trip is. They clearly felt like we couldn't get too far away from the standard Biowar formula, so there are settlements everywhere, first contact has already happened, etc etc. There's basically nothing that says this couldn't be an unexplored bit of the Milky Way.

It would have been far more interesting and powerful if they fully committed to the Andromeda storyline - don't have the Nexus arrive first, don't have Milky Way races settlements everywhere. Make it a truly alien part of the galaxy and build up the Hyperion more as the sole base for the races (maybe don't have the separate race ships plus Nexus, just have on giant ship). Really play up the stranded in an alien galaxy, alone in the dark angle. Rather than this weird re-tread of the Milky Way set up.
 

prag16

Banned
I do think they sort of ballsed up the premise by not being bold enough, despite how bold the actual Andromeda trip is. They clearly felt like we couldn't get too far away from the standard Biowar formula, so there are settlements everywhere, first contact has already happened, etc etc. There's basically nothing that says this couldn't be an unexplored bit of the Milky Way.

It would have been far more interesting and powerful if they fully committed to the Andromeda storyline - don't have the Nexus arrive first, don't have Milky Way races settlements everywhere. Make it a truly alien part of the galaxy and build up the Hyperion more as the sole base for the races (maybe don't have the separate race ships plus Nexus, just have on giant ship). Really play up the stranded in an alien galaxy, alone in the dark angle. Rather than this weird re-tread of the Milky Way set up.

Yeah they did play it a little too safe from that standpoint. I suspect the idea was it would be too hard to fill the worlds with "content" if there was nothing preestablished on the planets when Ryder gets there (and of course the easiest stuff to "preestablish" would be Milky Way-lite stuff). Would've been nice to have at least ONE planet like that though to mix it up.
 
I do think they sort of ballsed up the premise by not being bold enough, despite how bold the actual Andromeda trip is. They clearly felt like we couldn't get too far away from the standard Biowar formula, so there are settlements everywhere, first contact has already happened, etc etc. There's basically nothing that says this couldn't be an unexplored bit of the Milky Way.

It would have been far more interesting and powerful if they fully committed to the Andromeda storyline - don't have the Nexus arrive first, don't have Milky Way races settlements everywhere. Make it a truly alien part of the galaxy and build up the Hyperion more as the sole base for the races (maybe don't have the separate race ships plus Nexus, just have on giant ship). Really play up the stranded in an alien galaxy, alone in the dark angle. Rather than this weird re-tread of the Milky Way set up.

I kind of agree with you in general, though I'd contest the idea that the Nexus is a problem. Honestly, the premise worked best when you got there and it's just a disaster. They moved away from those initial difficulties too fast.
 

diaspora

Member
I kind of agree with you in general, though I'd contest the idea that the Nexus is a problem. Honestly, the premise worked best when you got there and it's just a disaster. They moved away from those initial difficulties too fast.

I think this was best highlighted with the protest in hydroponics, like... it was 5 angry folks so it was hard to actually make me think they were anywhere near as dangerous as the game asserted they were. Like there weren't many more protesters than people discussing them- Ryder, Kesh, Addison, Tann vs those 5ish people.

edit: Also, I was mostly irritated at radiation being the key threat on Eos rather than the sandstorms. Would have preferred the latter tbh.
 

Madness

Member
So I guess that is that for Mass Effect.

See you in 2027, I guess.

Hey, at least they can jump the in game story 10 years and actually have Prodromos and the Nexus and other places built up now. But yeah, pretty much means no more ME for 5 years at least. Edmonton new IP will probably be out next year, they will want to support that with a sequel if it does well. And then EA has the Star Wars juggernaut to fall back on. Why make ME: Andromeda 2 when you can make a Mass Effect styled Star Wars game, tie into the movies etc. There is a reason so many staff left too. We probably aren't going to get any comprehensive DLC either. Most of the writers are gone. If half the Montreal studio is being sent to EA Motive and the remainder is doing patches and post-launch sustain, who will spend the time, resources and money doing new cinematics, voiceovers, creating some new 5-10 hour story?
 

Luxorek

Member
Fuck.

FUCK, FUCK, FUCK.

There goes my favourite Sci-fi space opera series. No kidding, we probably won't get new Mass Effect for another 7-8 years : /
 

Sai

Member
Wonder what this means for DLC.

I played a quick multiplayer match earlier today; first time booting up Andromeda since I finished my first run through the single player... I think I'm giving up. I've been periodically messing around with ME3's multiplayer, and it's just a night 'n day difference between them when it comes to simply aiming. If I were playing with a mouse and keyboard, it would probably be smooth sailing, but I have to really fight with this Xbox One controller's analogue stick to stay on, or follow my targets. S'no fun!
 
Wonder what this means for DLC.

I played a quick multiplayer match earlier today; first time booting up Andromeda since I finished my first run through the single player... I think I'm giving up. I've been periodically messing around with ME3's multiplayer, and it's just a night 'n day difference between them when it comes to simply aiming. If I were playing with a mouse and keyboard, it would probably be smooth sailing, but I have to really fight with this Xbox One controller's analogue stick to stay on, or follow my targets. S'no fun!
Pretty sure this means the DLC is cancelled. Their MP team is still there, the other staff is gone.
 

Apoptomon

Member
Eh, I'm neither surprised nor worried - downsizing a team after release and sending people to help other teams with in-progress projects is standard industry practice. If the news is any more significant than that, we'll see.
Personally, I'm not starving for ME5/MEA2 any time soon.
 

diaspora

Member
Fuck.

FUCK, FUCK, FUCK.

There goes my favourite Sci-fi space opera series. No kidding, we probably won't get new Mass Effect for another 7-8 years : /

I mean, prior to ME:A's release what I had expected was:

  1. Andromeda 2017
  2. Dylan 2018-2019
  3. DA4 2019-2020
  4. ME:A 2021-2022

Given the 3 year difference between the launch of DA:I and ME:A, I personally wasn't expecting ME:A2 for at least 5 years.

Pretty sure this means the DLC is cancelled. Their MP team is still there, the other staff is gone.

Eh, Austin did The Descent for DA:I no?
 

Mindlog

Member
Wonder what this means for DLC.

I played a quick multiplayer match earlier today; first time booting up Andromeda since I finished my first run through the single player... I think I'm giving up. I've been periodically messing around with ME3's multiplayer, and it's just a night 'n day difference between them when it comes to simply aiming. If I were playing with a mouse and keyboard, it would probably be smooth sailing, but I have to really fight with this Xbox One controller's analogue stick to stay on, or follow my targets. S'no fun!
Yeah, it's still not great. Are you hosting? I always host when using headshot weapons even if it means starting solo. The difference is profound.

I played some games with the Ushior earlier and I had headshots done by sometime near the end of round 2.
 

Patryn

Member
Pretty sure this means the DLC is cancelled. Their MP team is still there, the other staff is gone.

At this point I think if we don't hear about single-player DLC by the end of June it's not happening.

And I honestly think it's not happening.

I can see it coming back in another ten years with a full reboot.
 

prag16

Banned
At this point I think if we don't hear about single-player DLC by the end of June it's not happening.

And I honestly think it's not happening.

I can see it coming back in another ten years with a full reboot.
This is probably pretty accurate, unfortunately.

I'll be annoyed if they leave all those story threads hanging indefinitely. The least they could do is tie some of those off in a farewell DLC before they put the franchise in cryo for the long nap.


EDIT: Also does this mean the other two novels from the planned trilogy will be cancelled as well? One was supposed to come out next month. It's most likely already written, or damn near it. Would they just kill it?? The one for next month was seemingly going to tie in with DLC...
 
EDIT: Also does this mean the other two novels from the planned trilogy will be cancelled as well? One was supposed to come out next month. It's most likely already written, or damn near it. Would they just kill it?? The one for next month was seemingly going to tie in with DLC...
No idea. I know there's like 4 complete novels for the Star Trek Kelvin Timeline that are sitting in Pocket Books' vault because the producers veto'd publishing them, so that's entirely possible.
 

Ivory Samoan

Gold Member
Well......today fucking sucks a bit doesn't it.

I'm trying to see the positive in all of this, but yeah...it's not sounding good. With any luck, it's just on hiatus until they figure out what they're doing (MEA2 or ME:Reboot), and a new team could be formed once decided.

At the moment, we're just going on Kotaku's 'sources' and the one Yannick Roy comment that was vague at best....need something official: Mr Flynn, where art thou?
 
I'm going to be pretty upset if it really is on ice. For all its faults, I've really enjoyed Andromeda and its one of my favourite games this year - going to be gutted if the series is having another hiatus or is even finished because of how criticism blew up.
 

Big Nikus

Member
need something official: Mr Flynn, where art thou?

Like more and more devs : away from GAF to keep his sanity. Can't blame him, or the other BioWare devs who used to stop by this thread...
They're having drinks with shinobi and we're here among ourselves, poor Mass Effect orphans :(

I'm actually really depressed :/
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Put me in the "He's dead, Jim" camp.

EA unhappy with sales/acclaim versus projections, shareholder promises, and expectations. Already wary of series viability after the trilogy, effectively trying to recapture the magic in a new generation. Development/production difficulties. Reallocate support to other blockbusters at BioWare. Shelve Mass Effect, tell people its on hiatus, never actually return at all.

Wouldn't be surprised if most of the novels were canned.
 

Xando

Member
Disappointing but i thought it would happen when i saw the launch reactions.

ME 1-3 are probably in my top 15(if not top 10) of favourite games and i played every game atleast 2-3 times.

When the origin access time started i could already tell that andromeda was going to be disappointing compared to 1-3. It didn't have the ME feel i loved so much and it was plagued with some bizarre technical issues.
Overall i constantly felt like the game was a last gen game compared to TW3, Horizon or even DA:I. The overall story was mediocre at best and while i liked some characters (Jaal or Drack) most of them were not up to the standard of Mass Effect.
Don't get me wrong, the game wasn't all that bad and i had a decent time with it but i probably won't touch it again for a long time (if ever) and it just didn't live up the the Mass Effect name.

It's a shame that the series is now shelved but i think continuing Andromedas vision would have been a mistake and soured Mass Effect even more for me.
 

aravuus

Member
Not surprised and... Well, not that sad about it either in all honesty. I absolutely adore ME1 and 2, but after 3 and Andromeda - on top of everything else Bioware has done in recent years - I just don't see them making another Mass Effect I'd really enjoy even if they did keep making them.
 

Rodhull

Member
Just started with my insanity difficulty playthrough and went with default Sara Ryder for the first time and even with whatever improvements they made with the patches some of the facial animations and expressions still stand out a bit as odd compared to the custom characters I used before.

Nothing like the stuff that was hyperbolically mocked around launch but still... Just something about the default mouth seems off.
 

Madness

Member
Put me in the "He's dead, Jim" camp.

EA unhappy with sales/acclaim versus projections, shareholder promises, and expectations. Already wary of series viability after the trilogy, effectively trying to recapture the magic in a new generation. Development/production difficulties. Reallocate support to other blockbusters at BioWare. Shelve Mass Effect, tell people its on hiatus, never actually return at all.

Wouldn't be surprised if most of the novels were canned.

True. But if Edmonton's new IP which is supposedly a Destiny/Division style game doesn't take off in an already crowded space, I could see them being told to take on the series.

I see two paths forward. Andromeda 2 and jumping the timelines maybe 5 years, let the cities be built up, the Nexus and have the Kett re-enter as a bigger threat etc. Or go the remaster of original trilogy route, 4K and 60fps along with updated visuals and textures for all 3 games, coupled with being brave enough to choose an ME3 canon ending and then release ME4, maybe set like 20 years after ME3 ended, tell a new storyline in whatever happened post-Reapers. Obviously Destroy works best. But you're right. There is a lot of negativity around the series. They have definitely cancelled whatever Quarian ark dlc they had, probably won't publish the planned books.

I do wish the IP is given to a better publisher/developer. EA only truly cares about Star Wars right now.
 
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