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The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
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Assuming you agree with the Catalyst, of course. I didn't, which is why I'm now supreme ruler of the galaxy with a Reaper army under my control to crush any opposition to peace. Benevolently, of course.
SliChillax
Member
Every time I see this thread on the front page I hope there's new news... *sigh*
Winterfang
Banned
But how old is the calatyst? 300,000 years, a million? 8 million?
How many times did he saw the same cycle repeat itself? Take in my that [maybe I have this wrong] an entire cycle ends in the creation of a single new reaper. And every cycle starts after a bunch of races evolve to learn space travel, then create AI smart enough and in mass enough for them to wipe all organics. Sure the reapers accelerate the cycle by creating the citadel and the Mass Relays and have it down to 50,000 but I beat that took time and trials.
I have no reason not to trust the Star Child, as the reapers are not enemies perse. if they had wanted to destroy everything they could had done it in a couple of years but the allied species are fighing a war, the reapers are just batting away flies while cooking meat. I trust him when he says synthesis is the better option, since he is an advance [godlike] A.I that has look for a solution for the problems for possibly millions of years.
I agree the indoctrinated outcome is really cliche, since everyone could see that a mile away. It would have been far more interesting if TIM actually won over the Reaper tech.
Having said that, I don't think Cerberus is a silly concept. Ultra-humanism (not a word I think haha) and humankind's very questionable methods to get ahead in a world where we are not top dogs, are nice themes to explore. It hits more close to home with me because I'm a minority in my own country and ultra-racism/ultra-nationalism (or some warped version) is a big problem here.
AWizardDidIt
Member
I think at its core, the whole "synthetic vs organic" conflict makes sense. The idea is that since synthetics can evolve so much quicker than organics, they're destined to eventually overtake them and render organics "obsolete". That's a pretty common sci-fi trope without an easy solution.
The problem is that the Synthesis is just a nonsensical solution to that problem and invokes too much space magic to make sense. It's transcendentalist but doesn't adequately explain what makes this new "life form" so special that it will avoid a technological singularity. It's a hand-wave to a complicated problem.
Destroy sucks because it arbitrarily destroys all synthetics and high advanced tech (which the extended edition then waffled on by saying 'oh but it won't be thaaaaat bad') and then leaves the lingering inevitability of the synthetic singularity in the air.
Control is the best option. It stops the Reapers without undue collateral damage and gives the races of the galaxy a chance to actually come up with a real solution for the problem while still retaining a "nuclear option" in case something really does go wrong and Reaper-Shep has to call down the Reapers again to wipe the slate. Also it has the coolest ending narration. All hail Reaper Shep, God Machine of the Galaxy.
The problem is that the Synthesis is just a nonsensical solution to that problem and invokes too much space magic to make sense. It's transcendentalist but doesn't adequately explain what makes this new "life form" so special that it will avoid a technological singularity. It's a hand-wave to a complicated problem.
Destroy sucks because it arbitrarily destroys all synthetics and high advanced tech (which the extended edition then waffled on by saying 'oh but it won't be thaaaaat bad') and then leaves the lingering inevitability of the synthetic singularity in the air.
Control is the best option. It stops the Reapers without undue collateral damage and gives the races of the galaxy a chance to actually come up with a real solution for the problem while still retaining a "nuclear option" in case something really does go wrong and Reaper-Shep has to call down the Reapers again to wipe the slate. Also it has the coolest ending narration. All hail Reaper Shep, God Machine of the Galaxy.
The issue with trusting the Catalyst is that he's already been programmed with the conclusion he tells you by the Leviathans. Any evidence gathering he's done has amounted to a gigantic case of confirmation bias, especially since the cycles prevent any meaningful organic/synthetic conflict before it ever begins. To be clear, I trust him when he tells us what the Crucible does for each choice. But once it jumps to his speculation of the degree of success for each function it's automatically suspect, since he's clearly on board with Synthesis anyway.
This is a markedly different case than, for example, Leto doing what he does in the Dune series in the name of preventing machines from wiping out humanity: we can trust Leto's word and know his actions are necessary because he can actually see the future. If Leto had said Synthesis was necessary to prevent extermination you'd know his word was gold.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Right, I agree, but much like contesting synthesis it's a natural response to a choice that I think is extremely poorly supported by the story itself. I find it interesting how people do legitimately debate destroy/control/synthesis, when by design and narrative to me the game paints a very clear picture that synthesis is the "win", even if BioWare say there is no right ending.
Oh I like the idea of Cerberus, but I dislike how they became a gigantic, unstoppable, economically limitless organisation. The concept of a rogue organisation with a heavy pro-humanity bent secretly funded by wealthy politicians, military leaders, and businesses owners allowing them to operate is fine. I just wish they'd kept the idea very ad hoc, semi-small scale and secretive, instead of turning them into more or less a nation power by the third game.
Where Mass Effect 1 had them out to be a very small scale, secretive, mysterious group operating in the shadows. And then Mass Effect 2 lets you explore them from the inside out, and discover they're bigger than you expected. Mass Effect 3 then just let them do and be whatever they want without much reasoning.
The Artisan
Member
the whole "pick 1 of 3 options/colors" premise is stupid. but making everyone partially synthetic was stupid.
I loved the ME universe from Me2 and could fathom that such a thing could be real. But adding an idea in this universe of blending everyone's DNA to make them synthetic was WTF for me.
prag16
Banned
Yeah, the synthesis option is almost entirely nonsensical, and really kind of an abomination when you think about it. It's baffling that Casey/Mac seemed to be trying to sell that hard as the "best" option. -_-
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Yes control is the only option that made sense, tbh. Policing the galaxy was what the Reapers should have been in the first place; vast machine intelligences that exist to nurture them and prevent conflict, not arbitrarily wiping out organics because of vague, unjustifiable reasons. They built all of these vast relays around the galaxy, so they obviously had time to put tiny autonomous monitoring stations around habitable worlds. When civilizations emerge they can welcome them into a single unified galactic civilization that the Reapers maintain.
It takes an enormous amount of contrived logic to get to where the Reapers are in the ME series; it's so incredibly obvious that the Reapers were reverse engineered from this core idea of "what if there are these scary cosmic horror robots?" and then they had to work out why they would possibly exist.
Winterfang
Banned
I can see why the Catalyst believe synthesis is the best option, That's what he has done all the time in the less form of reaper forces [husks, banshees, Ravagers, Collectors] and in ascended form [a new reaper]. But those are mostly done as a way for preserving organics before they are completely wiped out a way for them to not be completely lost.
And most people in the world of Mass Effect have some kind of technological implants, while the synthetics eventually end up developing conciseness.
The problem starts because organics make the synthetics better and better in order to have them help me more, but they eventually surpassed them. Now that the Crucible [a massive power source] is dock with the Citadel [The most advanced reaper creation] different solutions are created.
The only problem I see with it, is that people weren't given a choice. But is better than being harvested.
I'm thinking that, if left unchecked, ISIS might have a similar trajectory.
Winterfang
Banned
I think they only seem that way because be constantly ran into them. But they are just extremely well organized and have reaper tech. When they attacked Citadel and Flee, the suffered heavy losses, and a single attack at their secret base was enough to severely disrupting the organization. to the point where they stopped becoming a main threat.
I love fighting Cerberus, everytime I head that radio voices I get pumped. Specially when I kill the Nemesis soldiers, they make a badass almost robotic screech.
The Artisan
Member
indeed. control option sounded cool but I don't like the idea of shepard becoming a disembodied entity and of the reapers just coexisting with the rest of the inhabitants of the galaxy. destroy was always the only option I went with. speaking of which, if the other 2 options could directly target reapers, why is it the destroy option could not directly target reapers and spare the geth & edi?
also just curious, is your avatar hedwig?
It's obvious that BioWare thought Synthesis was the golden third option with the vanilla game. Everything from it being the hardest choice to unlock to it being presented in the middle to Shepard's meek acceptance of it as an option to his Jesus-jump into the beam of light tells us this.
prag16
Banned
Nope, just a random snowy owl. That particular shot is often seen around the internet with "Buttsecks" emblazoned across it.
As for the question in the rest of your post, I'm gonna go with "because reasons" or "space magic" or a little of both. Still loved the game, but it should have been an all time great.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Played through it 3 times. Picked Destroy every time. Sorry Geth but Reapers gotta die. First time I triggered Destroy I made sure to yell THIS HURTS YOU at the TV.
The Artisan
Member
lol
bro, I'm pretty sure the general consensus of Me3 is that it is a phenomenal game other than the ending. You're not part of any minority here.
Control is the best option? Really? No. No, no, no.
You want to put the power of the reapers into the hands of a single entity and charge him with being the space police. What happens after x years when the new god goes crazy due to inactivity/boredom/plot device? Races start getting wiped out again is what. Unless you make the argument that Shepard's mental state is frozen at the moment he imposes his will on the Reapers (i.e. mind will never deteriorate, control is permanent and absolute, will always be used to benefit the universe), but I think that's a copout.
I'd summarise it as follows:
Destroy - Pros: no more reset button, universe evolves to natural conclusion; Cons: tech/geth destruction (which really annoys me and feels super arbitrary, but whatever)
Synthesis - Pros: no one dies; Cons: everything gets smooshed together whether they want to be or not
Control - Pros: Reapers get stopped (and possibly used for benefit of all); Cons: until X happens and it all goes bad again.
Tell me if I have it wrong.
You want to put the power of the reapers into the hands of a single entity and charge him with being the space police. What happens after x years when the new god goes crazy due to inactivity/boredom/plot device? Races start getting wiped out again is what. Unless you make the argument that Shepard's mental state is frozen at the moment he imposes his will on the Reapers (i.e. mind will never deteriorate, control is permanent and absolute, will always be used to benefit the universe), but I think that's a copout.
I'd summarise it as follows:
Destroy - Pros: no more reset button, universe evolves to natural conclusion; Cons: tech/geth destruction (which really annoys me and feels super arbitrary, but whatever)
Synthesis - Pros: no one dies; Cons: everything gets smooshed together whether they want to be or not
Control - Pros: Reapers get stopped (and possibly used for benefit of all); Cons: until X happens and it all goes bad again.
Tell me if I have it wrong.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Pretty much the way I see it. 2 of those choices let Harbinger live. That is a deal breaker for me.
Was coming to post this =/
LegalEagleMike
Member
If there's new news there'll be a new thread.
and that thread has a 99.9% of also being started by Shinobi.
AWizardDidIt
Member
Ok so my rebuttal is going to be based in my own interpretation, so I'm not going to pretend to speak with any authority on the matter, but the only reason that the Reaper cycle existed in the first place is because the value of life was put in the hands of an AI that didn't put any value on the lives of organics, simply the concept of organic life.
Uploading Shepard gave the Reaper consciousness an organic viewpoint. I don't think there's reason to assume that it would all just "happen" again. The Reapers aren't "evil" they're just doing the job they were made to do. It's pretty clear through the ending narration that their job has now changed from protecting organic life to actually protecting organics. The Reaper collective did their performed duty for millions of years before. Now Shepard gave them a new duty. I can only assume they'll do that for the next few million years as well.
RagingPhoenix
Neo Member
Yeah I just don't see how anyone can take that at face value. I mean the reapers played that card before with Saren if one remembers his awe for their grand scheme and that was sure as hell wasn't in the best interest of all involved like they would have you believe, 'the perfect solution' pfft..
Winterfang
Banned
The problem with control is that it doesn't stop the cycle. The reapers are not the cause of the cycle, they are a solution to it. Now Shepard will stop them from harvesting the organics but when they create new AI and star a war with them, what will Shepard do kill all the synthetics? It would be same, except un the opposite direction.
Destroy just change the people being harvested by the reapers to being wipe out by synthetics, it's just a set back.
Synthesis stops the conflict and the reapers share the collective knowledge of all the races that where before the cycles started with the current galaxy. They don't just destroy everything, the harvest the living and gather their data. Preserving in a way
BrassDragon
Member
This is the single biggest flaw in the writing as far as I'm concerned: Shepard has absolutely no reason to trust the Catalyst. None. The only reason we as players roll with it is because we have metagame knowledge that the Catalyst is merely an exposition device to convey the final choice, not the embodiment of the Reapers' evil.
Shepard has no way of knowing if anything the Catalyst says is true. In fact, the Reapers have used deception and corruption throughout the trilogy. For all Shepard knows, jumping into that beam unshackles the Catalyst from the Citadel and lets him ascend to proper godhead... or whatever, since we're in space magic territory already, all bets are off.
It's such a poor storytelling choice in a game that's already rife with those.
Anyway. please bring back Sam Hulick and his magical music. No stunts with guest composers, just go back to the man who has delivered every single time.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
It was a flawed game that did some great things. Aside from the ending it did have other issues. Some of them pretty significant.
It's just that the ending was so godawful that it masked the other issues.
Of course if the game would have given me the OPTION of a happy blue baby ending, where EDI and the Geth survive I would have overlooked everything else.
Lionheart1827
Member
I agree. Bring back Jack Wall as well. I could tell that in ME3 they recycled a ton of Jack Wall/Hulick tracks from ME2(which is not a bad thing since theyre so good).
BrassDragon
Member
I've often wondered if the score was another thing that got squeezed by the tight production schedule of Mass Effect 3. There is a lot of recycling and they brought in Clint Mansell on top of that.
I don't think the Final Days app discusses the scoring much (if at all?) but there are so many cut corners visible elsewhere in the game, it wouldn't surprise me.
To be fair, Clint only did that very small track for ME3 and it is a superb piece of music that really fits the tone and mood. Unfortunately, it's now so associated with the attrocious ending in my head that whenever I hear it it makes me sad.
Still think that whilst ME1 had some fantastic tracks, it also had a fair amount of junk and ME2 was the high point of the series soundtrack wise for me. End Run and Suicide Mission are simply amazing tracks.
Still think that whilst ME1 had some fantastic tracks, it also had a fair amount of junk and ME2 was the high point of the series soundtrack wise for me. End Run and Suicide Mission are simply amazing tracks.
I dunno, i think ME1 soundtrack is more memorable. ME2 sountrack, while good, I can barely remember a music in my head other than the Illusive Man and Suicide Mission.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I absolutely HATED the piano track, because I didn't think it was that good and it's associated with the worst parts of the game ala the stupid dream sequences with the kid and of course the ending.
My favorite tracks were:
Music that played for Grunts mission.
Grissom Academy
Thessia (evennthough this is when the game went into the toilet)
Samara Monastery
My favorite tracks were:
Music that played for Grunts mission.
Grissom Academy
Thessia (evennthough this is when the game went into the toilet)
Samara Monastery
behroozbadboy
Banned
Daft punk is a good choice too.
Wall/Hulick combo (80s synth) in ME 1 was phenomenal. But I think They really dropped the ball with all the orchestral stuff in 2 & 3
Wall/Hulick combo (80s synth) in ME 1 was phenomenal. But I think They really dropped the ball with all the orchestral stuff in 2 & 3
Not even Mars? Best music of ME3 for me! Reminds me a bit of ME1, must be why i like it.
BrassDragon
Member
It's a very good piece, I agree. I also suffer from bad associations but the track stands on its own merits.
However, I'm sure Hulick would have done equally wonderful with those sequences. Exhibit A:
http://youtu.be/7XW0v_R5uo8
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I liked plenty of other tracks. I was typing on my phone.
Yes I do like Mars quite a bit.
The walk on Menae is another great one. Rannoch music was good too. There was really a ton of great music in ME3. After Deus Ex Human Revolution its probably my second favorite game soundtrack.
But I hate that fucking piano track so damn much.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Clint's song was the only redeeming feature of Mass Effect 3's last hour. I basically bought out his entire catalog after hearing it (he has a ton of stuff on iTunes) and listen to it whenever I want to chill and feel slightly sad.
I associate it more with the sadness of the end of a fantastic trilogy than the sadness for how that trilogy went out. If Mass Effect was a person reading the story of her life, she'd be grinning from ear to ear until she reached the final chapter. Then it'd be all
I associate it more with the sadness of the end of a fantastic trilogy than the sadness for how that trilogy went out. If Mass Effect was a person reading the story of her life, she'd be grinning from ear to ear until she reached the final chapter. Then it'd be all
MrTroubleMaker
Member
me too
shiftymorgan
Member
What about the afterlife music in omega?
Loved that one
You Heathen
Ah yes, forgot about that one. I prefer the one in "Lower" Afterlife(where the bartender try to poison you) personally.
shiftymorgan
Member
Ah yes, forgot about that one. I prefer the one in "Lower" Afterlife(where the bartender try to poison you) personally.
Ah thats the one I mean,
I think its awesome.
Really liked the whole grimness of it all.
The Lamonster
Member
Not even the tracks that plays on the Citadel? Or the two musics that always play on barren planets? Considering how many time you spend on both of them, you'd think the music would get stuck in your head.
The Lamonster
Member
Leviathan of Dis is ~1 billion years old, and it is revealed to be a derelict/destroyed reaper. So we're looking at at least that old.
Divide that by 50,000 (length of a cycle) and you get 20,000 cycles. It's hard for humans to think about things on a geological scale of time, which is what we are dealing with here.
I tend to agree with your reasoning as well, but also I think that so many people have different feelings about which choice makes sense to them is actually a great thing about this game.
shiftymorgan
Member
The wards, the normandy and m4 part 2 by faunts.
Annnd I am done.
No idea about others.
Only have mass effect 1 as a disc.
others went digital so I never really got them.
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