-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
- Status
crackhead_bob
Member
Does anyone think there will be an established government body already in place by the time Andromeda's story begins, or will the structure end up resembling something along the lines of the Andromeda project members encountering primitive tribes?
dr_rus
Member
Just confirmed the Tempest is full time Scout and Research Vessel: no weaponry (I wasn't sure if they meant no guns, or just no main gun).
I'm ok with this, as long as some ships in the AI have weaponry, I can handle the jandel (Kiwi expression)
And that's why I don't have much hopes for MEA. Scouting and exploration doesn't require weapons, right? Common sense is crying.
lucebuce12
Member
With the way they've described, the Tempest is one of the fastest ships out there to the point where it can just outrun many situations. Certainly makes sense then that it'd have to sacrifice firepower for the sake of speed.
And with how massive the Nexus is and how many people there are, there most certainly have to be ships with the express purpose of combat that would probably be much better at it.
Nostremitus
Member
I know right? The Enterprise was a Scouting and Exploration vessel, too. You know what it had? Phasers and photon torpedoes. Why? Because encroaching on an alien's territory can be deadly. Hell, in Mass Effect lore they even had the First Contact war as precedence.
The Normandy and Normandy 2 were also some of the fastest ships out there...
lucebuce12
Member
Fair enough but the Normandy(s) were also designed to be top of the line, military ships with the best engineers working on it and the in case of Normandy 2, practically unlimited resources thrown at it.
While we still don't know the extent of the program's aim and funding, it does make sense that they'd have a scout ship that's incredibly mobile and lacks in combat readiness.
Not saying that it's the MOST believable route they could have taken but I can certainly suspend my disbelief to the point where I can buy it.
That is a fair point lol, I didn't even think of that.
dr_rus
Member
How can you know if it's the fastest ship out there when you don't know anything about the place it's exploring? This is just one of these moments where I really wish that MEA had a different lead writer.
The new ship doesn't have weapons because they haven't been able to make space combat work in any of the ME games. the Normandy was equipped with weapons, and how often did that matter? Once, in the end sequence of ME2, and that purely boiled down to how many credits you had spent on your weapons.
If the ship has weapons, players expect a certain response and actions available - which they haven't yet managed to sort out in game. So instead, remove the weapons and that stops players wondering why their ship which is capable of atmospheric flight just blow the shit out of aliens on the surface instead of sending squads out.
If the ship has weapons, players expect a certain response and actions available - which they haven't yet managed to sort out in game. So instead, remove the weapons and that stops players wondering why their ship which is capable of atmospheric flight just blow the shit out of aliens on the surface instead of sending squads out.
Heckler456
Banned
In the real world, we're able to effectively know this due to our knowledge of physics, and the universal physical constant. Who knows, maybe there is a similar physical constant in regards to element zero. Or maybe they were just saying "the fastest ship when compared to all the ships we've made".
Also, you do realize we're still only speculating here, right? I'm not sure why you're already shitting on MEA's lead writer when we haven't even played the game yet, much less read the game's codex.
Common sense? We're already talking about a video game where we're flying at superluminal speeds to a nearby galaxy to talk with different alien races. Common sense has already flown out of the window. All that really counts is what is believable in-universe, and what is plausible. I find it to be entirely plausible for them to make the decision to make the pathfinder's ship exploratory and research-focused only, seeing as giving your emissary's ship a big-ass gun kind of defeats the notion of "we come in peace".
They did use the words "light, stealthy, ..." in the last video, but I'm not sure if that necessarily means it's a "stealth ship". As for shields, I'm sure there will be shields.
Those Constitution class starships might as well be war machines given their capability. Any Andromedan defense scanning one up will just go "Holy Shit" and escalate.
lucebuce12
Member
God I hope not. A lot of the upgrades for the Normandy in ME2 had no effect on the actual game, only on the final mission and even that effect is mainly just restricted to how cutscenes played out and whether you lost anybody. And the ones that did just slightly reduced the tedium of mining for resources.
I'm personally fine with the ship's capabilities not even being a factor in terms of gameplay rather than adding an arbitrary way to make it important.
I don't care about either to be honest.
Mass Effect for me was never about space combat.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I think the funniest part about that first contact protocol image (The Voyager Plaque) is the reference diagram of Earths solar system.
"Hey if any of you aliens discover this, it's our old home. It's 600 years away in another galaxy but you're welcome to try and reach us."
"Hey if any of you aliens discover this, it's our old home. It's 600 years away in another galaxy but you're welcome to try and reach us."
Heckler456
Banned
I'm thinking it's just a homage for the marketing, to be honest. Not something they'll use in the actual game.DeadlyParasite
Member
Yes, which is why you'll note I have it in brackets in the post you quoted.
The point I was making is that it's silly the Andromeda Initiative is using the image. The whole purpose of it is "This is who we are, come find us" , which becomes irrelevant when you're not even in the same galaxy.
Heckler456
Banned
You must have just edited it right between me pressing quote and me posting the comment.
Anyway, it's like I said, it's more than likely just an homage for marketing purposes. They've been going ham on interesting quotes in the same vein on twitter as well, including Carl Sagan ones.
That being said though, the plaque in real life isn't really meant to be a "come and find us". It's more of a "this was us" kind of plaque, seeing as an alien race finding it full stop is so incredibly unlikely, let alone one finding it while we still exist.
dr_rus
Member
We're not speculating as the screenshot of the tweet leaves little room for speculation and it just so happens that it's the tweet from MEA's lead writer. You know something is off when you have to defend decisions like this with a "wait till you read the Codex" option. I don't want to read some obscure justification for the lack of weapons on the exploration vessel as I just find this stupid, plain and simple. No amount of Codex explanations will help here because, yeah, common sense.
DevilDog
Member
I think they said no kinetic barriers.
DeadlyParasite
Member
Safe to say that if the next debriefing is about first contact in Andromeda the narrator is probably going to be your father Alec Ryder.
He was part of the team that first went through the Charon Relay and rustled Turian jimmies. Seems fitting he'd be the one to talk about the topic and so far every debriefing has used a different character (Jien Garson, Avina, Kallo Jath).
He was part of the team that first went through the Charon Relay and rustled Turian jimmies. Seems fitting he'd be the one to talk about the topic and so far every debriefing has used a different character (Jien Garson, Avina, Kallo Jath).
DevilDog
Member
Don't put us all in the same bag. Some people notice, some don't. Those who notice are not the Target Audience.
Heckler456
Banned
They at least didn't say that in the last video posted.
What? You think it's unreasonable to wait for the game to come out before condemning the lead writer? If you're going to be that bullheaded about it, what are you even trying to accomplish here?
There is nothing "not common sense" about any of that, unless you're just completely unwilling to give even a single inch. Like I've said before, we all know that the main impetus for not giving the ship weapons was more than likely for gameplay reasons / narrative reasons, and not from a consideration of what made the most sense. But aside from that, it is completely within the realm of plausibility that they'd want the Tempest to be as non-threatening as possible, and that they wouldn't want it to stick around and fight as much as they'd want it to get back to the Nexus as fast as possible, so that they'd be able to engage the rest of the fleet present there. Like, do you genuinely and honestly disagree that this reasoning is even remotely possible?
And that's even discounting the possibility that they might have a reason to not suspect too much resistance when they arrive there. In a universe where you're already able to go faster than the speed of light while also discounting time dilation, pretty much anything is possible.
dr_rus
Member
I think it's unreasonable to continue this conversation as you clearly don't hear what I'm saying.
Heckler456
Banned
What am I missing aside from you thinking it's stupid? I reread your posts, and I don't seem to notice anything that I've not addressed.
I think we're just going to have to file the lack of guns in the same mental space as 'in less than 50 years humanity because equal in importance to species who have already been in space for centuries' and 'all weapons suddenly need ammo packs'.
The fact is, having your fleets main exploration and scouting ship have no guns at all on it is insane and self-evidently dumb. I'm convinced it's because otherwise it would look damn weird fighting on a planets surface when our ship could just nuke them from orbit. As EatChildren has said, the series is full of huge, gaping inconsistencies and illogical actions, this is just another one to swallow.
(The entire Andromeda initiative is completely insane and ludicrous as an idea as it's been presented now, so the lack of guns shouldn't be a concern next to that!).
The fact is, having your fleets main exploration and scouting ship have no guns at all on it is insane and self-evidently dumb. I'm convinced it's because otherwise it would look damn weird fighting on a planets surface when our ship could just nuke them from orbit. As EatChildren has said, the series is full of huge, gaping inconsistencies and illogical actions, this is just another one to swallow.
(The entire Andromeda initiative is completely insane and ludicrous as an idea as it's been presented now, so the lack of guns shouldn't be a concern next to that!).
Heckler456
Banned
See, I'm just of the mind that anything that has a plausible explanation within science fiction pretty much goes. Because plot holes and inconsistenties are basically part and parcel with science fiction as a genre.
And besides, if they left the guns off the ship with the main reason being "we couldn't make it work in gameplay" (along with some kind of explanation in-universe), is that really so unreasonable? Or are we going with "lazy devs" on that one?
And besides, if they left the guns off the ship with the main reason being "we couldn't make it work in gameplay" (along with some kind of explanation in-universe), is that really so unreasonable? Or are we going with "lazy devs" on that one?
I think the Tempest would sounds a bit stupid (stupider ?) if it also was armed. It already the fastest ship ever, is supposedly stealthy, and is also a research vessel. All of that while begin small. It's already pretty much a better Normandy. Slap some gun on it at it become the best ship at everything.
And yeah it sounds a lot less weird to me than spending billion to go to another galaxy just because they can.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I'm 100% fine with the Tempest being speedy scout 101 with no teeth, with one caveat: there are armed ships elsewhere in the AI. As long as some of the ships in the AI flotilla have weapons, it's all good with me. Surely, a ship has a gun to protect the ~100,000+ people on the Nexus/ARKs....
Surely.
I've tweeted Mac again for a response, praying to sweet Azure for a good answer
Surely.
I've tweeted Mac again for a response, praying to sweet Azure for a good answer
Heckler456
Banned
The nexus video states that we'll be escorted by "combat pilots" until we reach the edge of our galaxy, but that we'll be "by ourselves, with only our kinetic barriers to shield us" while in dark space. But yeah, surely there will be some amount of ships on board for when they get there.
Makes me think though, has there ever been a spaceship battle in Mass Effect while the ships were in FTL mode?
Makes me think though, has there ever been a spaceship battle in Mass Effect while the ships were in FTL mode?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I really couldn't give two shits that the Tempest has no firearms. Of all subversion of sensibilities, that really doesn't bother me in the slightest. I can quite comfortably buy the Tempest being just one of many very similar ships used primarily for scouting and recon missions under the Pathfinder's command, unarmed as it has no military crew or intended use in any combat situation.
You hated Halo 4 that much? Feel like we haven't seen enough of the writing to judge Schlerf yet.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Codex to the rescueeeeeee
FTL combat is impossible, since sensors are limited to light speed. As such, at FTL ships are largely blind, and very, very difficult to hit if they're taking the slightest effort to evade pursuers.
Basically this. "I wouldn't have done it that way" isn't a plot hole, guys. The Tempest has no guns cause it's a strictly noncombat vessel. You may think that's unreasonable, but there it is.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
non-combat vessels going into completely uncharted territory with a host of powerful alien races seems pretty intelligent
Heckler456
Banned
Space is really big though. Presumably they'll be in stealth mode most of the time. And all they need when things get a little hairy is enough kinetic barriers to "spin up the warp drive" or whatever their thing is, and you're 1.5 billion kilometers removed from where you used to be one second before.
Great find. I thought something like that would be the case.
Poodlestrike
Banned
They didn't know about the host of powerful alien races. Hell, *we* don't know about the powerful host of alien races, or even if there is one. We know about the Kett and the Remnant and we only barely know about those.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
But I mean...there could be, right? Like in a universe that contains the Collectors, Geth, Krogan, the mothafuckin Reapers, maaaaaybe you might want to put some fuckin weapons on your transportation vehicle that carries everything you need to live when going into potentially hostile literally alien territory.
Just a thought.
Poodlestrike
Banned
M8 that's the arks.
Heckler456
Banned
In a galaxy that contains the Geth, Collectors, Reapers, ... How many times has the Normandy actually utilized its weaponry?
And, like... The Pathfinder is just a person. They're entirely expendable. Humanity presumably didn't go to Andromeda to conquer other civilizations. Again presumably they'd go there with diplomatic intentions, in which case the Pathfinder would be the emissary. Sure, he's personally armed and protected (although I don't see how they wouldn't go unarmed when meeting new races etc), but why would you give your emissary the ability to shoot shit out of the sky thanks to what might have been misunderstanding, thus potentially forever ruining diplomatic relations; or essentially giving him the ability to blast small towns out of existence? That's the risk a pathfinder takes, I would imagine.
Again though, complete speculation, but the point is that I can easily think up a myriad of plausible reasons for why the Tempest would be unarmed.
And, like... The Pathfinder is just a person. They're entirely expendable. Humanity presumably didn't go to Andromeda to conquer other civilizations. Again presumably they'd go there with diplomatic intentions, in which case the Pathfinder would be the emissary. Sure, he's personally armed and protected (although I don't see how they wouldn't go unarmed when meeting new races etc), but why would you give your emissary the ability to shoot shit out of the sky thanks to what might have been misunderstanding, thus potentially forever ruining diplomatic relations; or essentially giving him the ability to blast small towns out of existence? That's the risk a pathfinder takes, I would imagine.
Again though, complete speculation, but the point is that I can easily think up a myriad of plausible reasons for why the Tempest would be unarmed.
"In a universe that contains the Collectors, Geth, Krogan, the mothafuckin Reapers" the Andromeda Initiative probably doesn't stand a chance against any half decent army and putting guns on a scout ship isn't going to change that.
Beside having dedicated scout/research ship isn't the most unheard-of strategy, especially for a peaceful civilian project
Beside having dedicated scout/research ship isn't the most unheard-of strategy, especially for a peaceful civilian project
Think this is one of those things we'll just have to disagree on. I find the notion of not having a single ship mounted gun on the pathfinder ship one of the most illogical and insane concepts in the entire series, and that's saying something. I cannot imagine any circumstance, anywhere, where an exploration vessel of this type would deliberately have NO weapons on it. Especially as they could be used for other things as well as blowing aliens out of the sky.
But, as above, I presume it's a narrative / gameplay decision because now that our ship goes into planetary atmospheres it would just look bloody stupid to have us fighting alien gribblies whilst a ship with guns hovers overhead.
On that topic, I will be incredibly disappointed if we are fighting traditional mercs and ME races in this game. There is absolutely no justification for having any original game races or forces as enemies, and it would be unbelievably lazy to get to andromeda and then spend half the game fighting 'renegade krogan' and 'human mercs'.
Well we already know one such justification: there was an uprising on the Nexus which splintered some forces off. That's why there's the asari mob boss or whatever in that trailer.
There use to be military scout plane with nothing but counter measure before drone and satellite became a thing. Applying the same logic to the spaceship of ME doesn't sound that weird to me.
Prepare to be disappointed then. We already know we'll be fighting outcaste that were kicked out of the Nexus and resent the totalitarian rules that happen there or something along those lines. Though I kind of doubt we'll be fighting them as often as the Ket and Remnant
Pretty sure the gameplay trailer from December where we saw combat saw us fighting what looked like a mix of Turians, humans, and some unknown alien races, so I'm guessing this isn't a rare case.
And while I understand this feeling, please remember that we have no idea when we start the game compared to the arrival of the Arks. For all we know we could be starting ME:A a few years later after the arrival, which would explain why that woman from the Gameplay trailer, who was apparently in an important position on the Nexus, ended up as a rebel leader on some planet.
International Iron Man
Banned
I think people's minds would be blown if they knew our actual real-life military in actual real-life war zones have actual military vehicles that have no guns on them and zero offensive capabilities.
And Star Trek is a poor example because that "exploration vessel" takes on actual straight up military vessels like Birds of Prey and wins. That's...laughable for a variety of reasons.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I suppose it was only a matter of time before more concern threads about BioWare, Andromeda, and Mass Effect 3's ending popped up all over the general discussion forum this close to launch.
The only valuable thing I learn from those threads is that some people are savagely bitter and will hold on to their hatreds till the day they die from old age.
The only valuable thing I learn from those threads is that some people are savagely bitter and will hold on to their hatreds till the day they die from old age.
- Status