BenjaminBirdie
Banned
what
how
i'm seeing this today at the zig
what is my life
how
i'm seeing this today at the zig
what is my life
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The Master |OT| Paul Thomas Anderson
- Thread starter Expendable.
- Start date
- Status
Expendable.
Member
I was exhausted so had to sleep on it, but here are some additional thoughts:
When I first saw it, a few pieces of dialogue wasn't clear but literally everything comes together now. I'd have to say its PTA's most emotionally resonant film yet. I also noticed the lack of cuts much, much more. There are key sequences where PTA does one take that are astounding and truly keep you locked in into whatever is happening on screen. Also, his use of claustrophobic shots with the character's face filling up 80-90% of the frame and centered were much more apparent on second viewing. There are many, many scenes with no master or establishing shots and just these, which does wonders for making you feel trapped in this world.
Now on to some spoiler stuff:
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Those are just my general thoughts, looking forward to discuss more. Like I said, I literally discussed the film with friends for hours after the screening so this is kind of scratching the surface.
Also, box office update from @giteshpandya:
Nice.
When I first saw it, a few pieces of dialogue wasn't clear but literally everything comes together now. I'd have to say its PTA's most emotionally resonant film yet. I also noticed the lack of cuts much, much more. There are key sequences where PTA does one take that are astounding and truly keep you locked in into whatever is happening on screen. Also, his use of claustrophobic shots with the character's face filling up 80-90% of the frame and centered were much more apparent on second viewing. There are many, many scenes with no master or establishing shots and just these, which does wonders for making you feel trapped in this world.
Now on to some spoiler stuff:
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In the beginning PTA's editing choices are pretty remarkable. It goes from beautiful dissolves to show the drifting nature of Freddie. Then it turns into hard cuts from there on out, when he's with The Cause.
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My first viewing I didn't realize that EVERY flashback is tied to us experiencing Freddie's processing with him. From the first, amazing scene with just Lancaster and Freddie in the ship, where we see him call back Doris, we are witnessing his processing with him. When he does the applications and Amy Adams' character says "you'll see why we do this," we then see he finally breaks through and recalls his time as a soldier. The only where a flashback doesn't match up with his processing is the last shot (where he lays down next to a beach) but I think that's a bookmark to show Freddie has regressed and will stay the same. That last point I discussed with friends for hours. Half of us thought he showed some evolution and others didn't throughout the film.
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It became wildly apparent to me on second viewing that Laura Dern's character is Lancaster's ex-wife. Here's a few reasons: Amy Adam's character oddly says that ex-wives distract Lancaster, then we go meet her Philly, we see a shot of Adams looking kind of mad at Dern when she is speaking. Then when Dern confronts Dodd at the congress about the book when can clearly see Dodd has had a long history with her and is not only perturbed at her asking a question about his writing, but it goes deeper than that. Also, Jessie Plemmons' (Dodd's son) character is clearly Dern's son. Whenever he is at her Philadelphia house he seems detached and doesn't want to participate (we seem outside slouching and questioning). But elsewhere he is engaged.
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The second viewing also made it abundantly clear just how much Freddie and Dodd's relationship is like a master and his dog. From playing around on the grass, to the beautiful, perfect scene in the jail (where PTA juxtaposes a calm, collected Dodd against a completely wild, untamed Freddie), it is all about this relationship. I also think its pretty clear that Dodd has a homosexual attraction to Freddie and their last scene together is completely devastating as he knows Freddie distracts him from his work and must either join him for the rest of his life but never see him again. I'm also torn about one of the last scenes, where we see Freddie having sex with the English woman. On one hand, he's completely making a mockery of the processing and Scientology about joking about, but he's also recalling a very intimate time with Dodd (in the ship, during his first processing), WHILE he's having sex with a woman. I'm not 100% sure what to make of that scene.
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I didn't quite realize it, but the call from Dodd to Freddie in the movie theater was a dream. We see a shot of him watching the movie, then he gets a phone call. Then the next shot is kind of an abrupt cut to him in the same position. If it was real, this is the one time where Dodd would seem to actually have some sort of tangible power or higher calling of knowledge, but he doesn't.
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I picked up on second viewing that when they go out on their motorcycle, its insinuated that Freddie just drove off forever...almost all the way to Massachusetts, which is where we see him next. When I first saw the film, I almost thought it would end on the shot of Freddie just way off in the distance, never coming back. It's also the first time Dodd doesn't have Freddie on a leash and he just runs free. Even the next shot of them trying to find him is like someone searching for a dog, as I mentioned before.
Those are just my general thoughts, looking forward to discuss more. Like I said, I literally discussed the film with friends for hours after the screening so this is kind of scratching the surface.
Also, box office update from @giteshpandya:
Nice.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
lofl. next saturday not today
Expendable.
Member
ViewtifulJC
Banned
polyh3dron
Banned
if you've seen the film, this 1968 video interview of L. Ron Hubbard is a good companion to it just to see how dead on PSH nailed the performance, and to see just how much of a pathological liar LRH was. It's the only video interview of him in existence that wasn't some official Scientology PR thing.
metsallica
Member
Just came back from it but wanted to hit one of your spoilered points (it was the first thing my eyes hit, I haven't even read all of you thoughts but I will.
Regarding the movie theater call: Freddie actually refers to it as a dream when he's talking to Dodd at the end of the film.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I'll be seeing it at the Arclight at 10:00 tonight! Can't wait! Will there be any other gaffers in attendance?
Hmm.
The performances are great and the movie's gorgeous, but I was hoping it would add up to more.
The performances are great and the movie's gorgeous, but I was hoping it would add up to more.
I wish I had seen that movie, but I'm not sure the movie really dives into that. The cult aspect and the master/dog relationship seem to end up on divergent paths. It's pretty hard to extrapolate the featured relationship as saying anything grand about any unique American psychology when Phoenix's character is so clearly mentally ill, and we don't get enough insight into the other people who are following The Cause.
polyh3dron
Banned
Yeah Dan I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Really enjoyed it, moreso now that it's sat with me for a bit. Felt like I snapped out of a dream leaving the theater, takes a bit of time to process.
First off, watching Phoenix and Hoffman do their thing was mesmerizing throughout. Amy Adams did a nice job as well, though it's easy to get overshadowed by those guys in those roles. The parallels to L. Ron Hubbard and the early days of Scientology are many though it's not worth reading into as overt criticism, just as an interesting historical backdrop for PTA's character study.
Narrative kind of takes a back seat at times and the film slows down after the first act but it's always captivating and beautifully shot. Some spoilerish things that stood out:
Can't wait to see it again.
First off, watching Phoenix and Hoffman do their thing was mesmerizing throughout. Amy Adams did a nice job as well, though it's easy to get overshadowed by those guys in those roles. The parallels to L. Ron Hubbard and the early days of Scientology are many though it's not worth reading into as overt criticism, just as an interesting historical backdrop for PTA's character study.
Narrative kind of takes a back seat at times and the film slows down after the first act but it's always captivating and beautifully shot. Some spoilerish things that stood out:
Trailing the department store woman showing off her coat
Freddie's processing
Freddie's rorschach test
That foamy blue ocean
Every time Dodd got really pissed
Amy Adams' constant presence without overt focus
Saying welcome back by scrapping on the lawn, just like a good dog
Selling Book 2 to the faithful "No more secrets!"
The Master's warmly oppressive office in London
I want to fart on your face right now. Freddie and farts, that was kind of weird
Freddie's processing
Freddie's rorschach test
That foamy blue ocean
Every time Dodd got really pissed
Amy Adams' constant presence without overt focus
Saying welcome back by scrapping on the lawn, just like a good dog
Selling Book 2 to the faithful "No more secrets!"
The Master's warmly oppressive office in London
I want to fart on your face right now. Freddie and farts, that was kind of weird
MorisUkunRasik
Member
The performances were good, especially Phoenix's. The mannerisms, the physical contortions, he was great. I just didn't pull very much from the movie. It was alright, didn't meet my expectations at all, it felt like it could have gone in so many interesting directions but didn't.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Curious, are there
actual war scenes in the movie?
Wondering if PTA is really going full Kubrick/Malick in this one, Thin Red Line stizz.
Wondering if PTA is really going full Kubrick/Malick in this one, Thin Red Line stizz.
Expendable.
Member
Expendable.
Member
Whoa, looks like it really is opening much wider. Very cool. It broke the record for best live-action per-theater-average debut.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Trying to find out if it's opening near me, where do I go on BOM?
they don't have a list, they just said it's opening that wide. I checked a few of the arthouse theaters in cities near me and, sure enough, all of them are showing it starting friday. check your local listings.
TJ Bennett
TJ Hooker
I admired a great deal of The Master, but my initial viewing was one of disappointment. Phoenix is the highlight of the film and his performance is best acting I've seen this year. The way he carries himself throughout the film comes off as grotesquely realistic. His facial expressions are captured beautifully by the 70mm screening format. PSH and Amy Adams are also really damn good. As Expendable hinted at earlier in the thread, the "scene" with Phoenix and Hoffman is just an acting tour de force from both guys. Greenwood's score fits the tone of the film perfectly when it's used, but one of PTA's great strengths is knowing when to drop the music out completely. Unfortunately all of the technical accomplishments vastly outshine the rather empty story. I felt like it built up to nothing. Overall, I liked The Master but didn't love it like I wanted to. We've all waited five years for PTA to churn out a movie and perhaps my expectations were simply too high. I don't think The Master is anywhere near the quality of There Will Be Blood, Punch-Drunk Love, or Boogie Nights. Perhaps my appreciation will grow with repeat viewings.
P.S. - I caught the 10:00pm showing at the Arclight on Saturday. I was rather annoyed that the top of the frame was out of focus throughout the entire film. I may try seeing it in the dome next time.
P.S. - I caught the 10:00pm showing at the Arclight on Saturday. I was rather annoyed that the top of the frame was out of focus throughout the entire film. I may try seeing it in the dome next time.
metsallica
Member
It's much more of a character study than a film with a traditional narrative, which is fine, but you need to go into it expecting that. I felt as if the ending wasn't earned, either. Seemed random, whimsical, but maybe that was the point.
Expendable.
Member
Ebert gives this 2.5 stars and End of Watch 4 stars.
What...the..
Anyways, starting tomorrow its in 800+ theaters.
What...the..
Anyways, starting tomorrow its in 800+ theaters.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Expendable.
Member
I thought it was mostly terrible, but I hate all of Ayer's films. The style he uses here destroys any semblance of a good movie since its not consistent whatsoever.
Angry Fork
Member
Are there going to be any more 70mm showings in NYC during it's run? If I went to Lincoln Square this weekend it wouldn't be 70mm?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Yeah it opened today in 70mm in this tiny little boutique theater maybe no one ever heard of:
http://www.movietickets.com/house_detail.asp?house_id=125&rdate=9/21/2012
;D
TheKaeptain
Banned
It's not like the 70mm was put to good use. Everything is a fucking close up outside of like 5 shots.
Expendable.
Member
notsureifserious.gif
TheKaeptain
Banned
I'm serious. The boat, three water shots, and in the jail cell. Everything else was shot close and tight. I understand why he did it (adds to the tension) but it was over done here. PTA is no Kubrick that's for sure.
So just got back from seeing this movie and I thought it was alright. Will have to watch it again of course. I really like Joaquin's acting in this movie but to me, his acting was better in Walk the Line than this role he has played (which I felt their characters were similar in tone). Though, his acting in the movie kept me interested the whole time, which is why I love this dude, haha. I thought Amy Adam did a great job as well and the actor that played Hoffman's son in law. PSH did a good job as well, especially when he gets pissed in the movie. Great character study film but plot wise, so-so. The Master, to me, hasn't "blown me away" like There Will Be Blood or Boogie Nights but it's still worthy of a watch.
I hate to say it, but I thought this movie was a pretty big snooze. Some great performances and moments, but too quiet and languid.
I feel as though I might appreciate better after reading some perspectives from the people that did like it a lot......but at the same time I don't think you could make me sit down and sit through the film in its entirety. It feels about 15 minutes too long.....after Freddie rides off on the motorcycle I was just completely begging for the movie to end, and that desperation to get out of the theater made it hard to take anything out of the final scenes.
Of the other Paul Thomas Anderson movies I've seen (Magnolia, Boogie Nights, TWBB) this is easily the worst. It feels awful to say that, since he only makes like 1 movie every 5 years.
If Dodd knows that he's a complete charlatan and his religion is total bunk, why does he have such an interest in Freddie? The guy is a penniless drunk, and not usually the sort of person a cult wants to leech off of. I suppose there's the possibility that Dodd believes his own nonsense, but that seems unlikely.
I feel as though I might appreciate better after reading some perspectives from the people that did like it a lot......but at the same time I don't think you could make me sit down and sit through the film in its entirety. It feels about 15 minutes too long.....after Freddie rides off on the motorcycle I was just completely begging for the movie to end, and that desperation to get out of the theater made it hard to take anything out of the final scenes.
Of the other Paul Thomas Anderson movies I've seen (Magnolia, Boogie Nights, TWBB) this is easily the worst. It feels awful to say that, since he only makes like 1 movie every 5 years.
If Dodd knows that he's a complete charlatan and his religion is total bunk, why does he have such an interest in Freddie? The guy is a penniless drunk, and not usually the sort of person a cult wants to leech off of. I suppose there's the possibility that Dodd believes his own nonsense, but that seems unlikely.
I think there's more to Dodd than just a snake oil salesman. The psychological help he enables for his followers is real, as Freddie experiences first hand. His wife is certainly a true believer, of The Cause and the path they're on. Dodd has big ego and big ideas, which become increasingly colorful and more controlling as his business grows, but we only really see the beginning of that story. There's a lot of sincerity mixed in with the charm throughout.
Freddie is a challenge and inspiration to Dodd - someone damaged that can shape his ideas and writing, a tamed trophy to trot around at dinner parties and a wayward friend. Everyone else fears him and wants him gone, but I think Dodd felt a genuine need to help this troubled man.
He ultimately can't, and while The Master is likely affected by this failing and not just putting on a show for Freddie at the end, it comes at zero detriment to his growing empire, ambition and convictions. Some folks don't like that aspect of the storytelling, that these guys don't outwardly change a ton through the course of their relationship, but it worked for me.
Also, an organization/cult like theirs needs more than just suckers with money - they need zealous loyalty, of which Freddie was happy to provide in his own way. The mentally ill have historically been drawn to/sought out by Scientology as well, especially since it is, as I've heard a few Scientologists say, an alternative to psychiatry.
Saw it tonight. Loved it, completely mesmerizing.
Had a discussion about:
Had a discussion about:
the scene with all the tits and bush. Now was that Joaquin Phoenix imagining all that (since he's so preoccupied with sex), or did it really happen? Or was it merely the Master's teachings visualized? The handjob scene after (which was hot btw) made me think Dodd was trying to take the cult in a more sexual direction like so many others, but his wife wouldn't allow it. Am I reading this right?
Felt the same way. Movie had great acting, but the lack of a driving plot and an overall direction made it feel like a waste of time. A lot of scenes felt like retreads on previous ones. I suppose to emphasize the monotony Phoenix's character endures at the hands of PSH, so we are forced to also endure it as an extension of the character we are "studying", but it just felt exhausting; not in the way TWBB wore me out with sheer thrill and shock, but instead frustration, confusion, and sheer boredom.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
This was certainly the most interesting film I've seen in a long while.
But it never came off as pretentious or abstract. It had structure and tangible storylines and characters, just not encapsulated a normal Hollywood storyline vessel.
Oh, and you know, it happens to be one of the most beautifully shot films this year, has a great score, and the acting is SUPERB.
I recommend it. Two thumbs up.
But it never came off as pretentious or abstract. It had structure and tangible storylines and characters, just not encapsulated a normal Hollywood storyline vessel.
Oh, and you know, it happens to be one of the most beautifully shot films this year, has a great score, and the acting is SUPERB.
I recommend it. Two thumbs up.
You're talking about the scene with
Dodd singing? I felt that it was Freddie imagining it simply because the cut between clothes and no clothes was so quick, didn't seem that any actual time elapsed.
The handjob scene I'm still not sure about.
The handjob scene I'm still not sure about.
Overall I thought it was a great movie, I just find it hard to articulate my feelings about it. Everything just seemed to blend together like a dream. The
processing sequence between Freddie and Dodd was pretty fucking amazing, though.
lazybones18
Banned
Saw it earlier today. It was amazing. Phoenix and PSH had great chemistry
Not better than TWBB, but I think it might surpass Boogie Nights as my 2nd favorite PTA movie
Not better than TWBB, but I think it might surpass Boogie Nights as my 2nd favorite PTA movie
brianmcdoogle
Member
I share some of these sentiments. There are high points in this movie, such as the stuff in the beginning in the department store with the fluid camera work, the comic acting/timing/awkwardness of the lighting lamps. But, overall... I'm emptied by it. There Will Be Blood was a balloon that was constantly being filled and filled until its only logical conclusion was to pop; The Master is just deflation of a different balloon.
Also frustratingly, a couple of the reviews I've read (now that I've seen the movie) that have enjoyed it have not been the most articulate in their explanations. Hopefully Michael Phillips will write something more than his synoptical review (maybe he'll go on Filmspotting and discuss it in depth), or Jim Emerson will write something more compelling.
With this, Moonrise Kingdom, Prometheus, The Dark Knight Rises, and Cosmopolis, I don't think I've ever been more let down in a year. Thankfully, there's been A Separation, The Deep Blue Sea, Bernie, Haywire, and Pariah to excite me. Nevertheless, with the way this year has gone so far, I'm tepid for Lincoln and Django. Something tells me Amour will live up to my expectations.
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