Callo Merlose
Banned
I hate reposting facebook stuff, but yeah:
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The "Men's Rights Movement" is apparently having a resurgence. Awkward.
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
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I hate reposting facebook stuff, but yeah:
What an excellent load of horse shit.
When I teach Social Studies 11 which covers history from basically WWI to the 1980's (and mostly Canada's role in the world throughout that time period) the repeating theme is minorities, women, aboriginals and baby-Canada gaining more rights (voting, work, property, legal etc), while white men both at home and abroad generally fight to keep the status quo. One male student said to me "so basically for every topic I can write 'straight, rich, white men are bad?'" to the laughter of the boys and the "hell yeah you are!" of a bunch of the girls. Talking with other teachers I got mostly "well most history we teach is about powerful white men so we need to hear the other side of history as well (women, aboriginals, minorities, the lower classes)" but I wonder if young people might take it that they should feel a sense of historical guilt about their place in the world as men and the types of power imbalances that exist.
Rambling sorry.
Rambling sorry.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
1. I don't know if he self-identifies as an MRA, but he was citing all the MRA talking points.
2. I don't blame women for hating men. Men fucking suck. Patriarchy has turned men into violent, domineering, hyper competitive, anti-social, emotionally repressed, self-alienating shells of human beings. Many men resist that socialization, but sadly, not many get very far in their resistance. And I empathize with that, because patriarchy will beat them down for not conforming. See: being an effeminate man, being a gay man, being a woman, being a child.
I repeat: men fucking suck, and I don't blame women who dislike men. I do, however, have critiques of women who center their feminism around hating and excluding men. Thankfully, those feminists are VERY rare.
LegendofJoe
Member
If the MRA were smart it would concentrate solely on men's issues at home. Whether it be the decision to have a baby, what house to live in/buy, how home chores/responsibilities are split, equal treatment in custody settlements, making use of media to make it okay to say NO to big, expensive weddings, using the media to create positive male models that stay at home, etc.
In many ways, to discuss the 20th century and not focus on the struggle of power towards equality would be just plain wrong. I don't think there's a single major event in that century that doesn't have some element of class struggle involved in it, especially for an offshoot of the British Empire.
I mean, it is a valid concern for sure, but I think this is one area where the Canadian education system excels, if not perfectly then at least towards a worthy cause. If there's a way to try to dissociate the guilt from the awareness in how it's taught, without it coming across as apologetics, I think that's also a worthy goal as well.
I'm afraid you have some profound issues with bigotry you should work though.
cutmeamango
Banned
ColonelColon
Member
You don't think women play any role in encouraging/incentivizing hyper-competitive, domineering behavior? I suppose women aren't attracted to strong, powerful men?
i just... no.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
What do you mean?
Are women attracted to strong, powerful men? Why are women attracted to strong, powerful men? Who says women are attracted to strong, powerful men? Who says women are attracted to men? Women where?
essyouemeight
Banned
I don't think it does either. But that's exactly what my problem is though: people tend to associate crazy nutjobs identifying as feminism with radical feminism. It really isn't radical feminism though, because I think that in the end radical feminism will not be aiming to subjugate men in any way.
What he did say though, namely that men got stricter prison sentences for being men, and that men could get put in prison at anytime if a woman simply mentioned that she was being abused without any trial whatsoever, is bullshit. It is not radical feminism. It's just bullshit.
But the problem is that there are women who think that is radical feminism. See SCUM Manifesto.
Basically, my entire argument is that something like SCUM Manifesto is fucking garbage, and should not be lumped into any form of feminism at all.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Hey, I don't suck! Most men I know are alright dudes.
Ruuuuuuuuude. This post is more douchey than most of the guys I know act towards women.
LegendofJoe
Member
lol, what world are you living in?
How many Fedoras were worn at this event?
also, I find men's right advocates to be ludicrous because they go for extremes instead of the things that need to be fought. Rape of men is mostly ignored in modern society, and the way we treat men in divorce and custody cases is also abysmal.
It's a shame that stupid people are usually the loudest, and we give them this much attention.
Also, screw the feminists protesting the group. Imagine if a group of mens right advocates did the same thing at a feminist event. It's disrespectful to do that, and your giving them way too much attention. There will always be stupid people in the world, and the worst way to teach stupid people cultural reform is by verbally attacking them
also, I find men's right advocates to be ludicrous because they go for extremes instead of the things that need to be fought. Rape of men is mostly ignored in modern society, and the way we treat men in divorce and custody cases is also abysmal.
It's a shame that stupid people are usually the loudest, and we give them this much attention.
Also, screw the feminists protesting the group. Imagine if a group of mens right advocates did the same thing at a feminist event. It's disrespectful to do that, and your giving them way too much attention. There will always be stupid people in the world, and the worst way to teach stupid people cultural reform is by verbally attacking them
rocketknight
Member
essyouemeight
Banned
This is basically what the Men's Rights Movement should be about.
I nearly forgot, women are incapable of being over competitive, violent, domineering, anti-social, emotionally repressed, self-alienating, shells of human beings!
you have a really shitty world view
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
lol, okay, you can kiss my hairy ass, too.
And I think you sound douchey for trivializing my post as "rude".
A world where women are attracted to many different types of people, and where women who are attracted to "strong, powerful men" are undoubtedly influenced by patriarchy. That doesn't invalidate their tastes, but it definitely shapes it. Why are men attracted to strong, powerful men? Why are people afraid of strong, powerful men?
My point is that saying that women are attracted to strong, powerful men (1) isn't entirely true, and (2) is ignoring the social context of that preference.
Are women normally socialized to be those ways? No. And guess what, men are!
Patriarchy.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I hate reposting facebook stuff, but yeah:
Serious post?
No. They are influenced by evolution. Survival of the species depended on women being attracted to strong men.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
There was nothing I said that was factually incorrect in terms of my opinion.
Aren't people like you kind of the problem cause you essentially feed the fuel for the MRA nuts?
Edit: Oh my God! I just realized that MRA sounds like NRA and they're nuts too. I find this really funny for some reason.
Couldn't agree more.
LegendofJoe
Member
I agree with the bold, but women aren't just socialized to be attracted to strong, powerful men. There is a genetic preference there as well, and it's well documented. It isn't just because they're socialized to prefer that type of man, it's genetically ingrained in them.
Yeahhhh....I'm pretty sure if the genders were switched here you'd have a new tag. Ironic? Maybe. But it's a good kind of irony.
not psycho
Member
The only "feminists" I personally have interacted with who I find incredibly annoying are men who try to excuse their shortcomings with "I can't help it, I'm a man!"
I'm never sure if they are intentionally misunderstanding feminism in a lame attempt to discredit it, or if they genuinely believe it because it makes them feel better about being a shitty person.
essyouemeight
Banned
The point is that women are not expected to be those things, but men are. That's patriarchy.
The end result is that people just can't be themselves.
Gay guy? Kick his faggot ass!
Don't want to drink because you have to work the next day? Don't be a pussy bro!
etc
violent - Women have been shown to be violent, maybe not as aggressive as males though. Also, males are more physically capable then females to produce injuries through their aggression which is why it gets more attention.
domineering - You're right, this a purely male trait (ps this was sarcasm)
hyper competitive - Women are just as competitive as men. They are just competitive about different things. Fashion is almost purely a competitive goal to be as attractive as possible. anti-social - women are very likely to have very similar issues considering our DNA is so incredibly close.
emotionally repressed - Women are better at expressing emotions then most men, but that does not make them repressed. Also, men and women find different things to be emotional about
self-alienating shells of human beings - Opinions.avi
your posts seem based on logic and factual statements (another case of sarcasm)
Quit having shitty world views and be happy about life.
depths20XX
Member
Eh, women reinforce the "alpha male" archetype and men follow it because they see it works. Is this a result of patriarchy? Sure, but modern men and women need to change it.
Devolution
Member
I don't see too many women or feminists saying "nice" when a boy is raped by a grown woman.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I guess my social group doesn't have subconsciously misogynistic assholes in it. I've met a few of those. Not exactly friends. I do occasionally excuse my idiocy with "I'm a guy." Does that count as misogyny or anti-feminism? Like not asking for directions cause I know I can find the place. Cause I can. I don't need directions.
I haven't in real life met hardcore patriarchy haters, surprisingly enough.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
No. People who stand up against sexism and misogyny are not the ones to be blamed for sexism and misogyny.
(Side note: Feminists can be sexist and misogynistic, but in general they are commited to unlearning and resisting those oppressions.)
No, I was serious. My point is that not all women like men, let along "strong, powerful men". It's a false generalization with a false premise.
And on that note, I'm outta this thread, cause I gotta do my homework.
Homophobia is not a purely heterosexual idea. Women have been shown to be just as angry and vile towards homosexuals as men.
The other one is just essentially bro culture in college, where literally the same thing happens on the other side with the equivalent female. They are a huge minority of male culture
Those traits are not a purely patriarchal idea, they would exist in any form of government.
RustyNails
Member
I hate reposting facebook stuff, but yeah:
rofl Ayaan ali hirsi is a lying piece of shit. Women's rights activist my ass.
depths20XX
Member
I may have missed your point but I don't think rape should ever be applauded.
essyouemeight
Banned
Because they have been conditioned by society to think there is something wrong with a male acting "feminine". That's patriarchy (i.e a man should be "a man")
The idea that not wanting to be drunk because you have to wake up early for work the next day - aka not doing something risky - is a feminine trait, thereby "being a pussy." Again, that's patriarchy.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, wait, I forgot I wanted to post this. This isn't targeted at anyone in particular here. It's just something that I think is important when men talk about feminism and male privilege.
If you see yourself doing any of this when called out, think about why, and think about what you might want to do next time.
If you see yourself doing any of this when called out, think about why, and think about what you might want to do next time.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Most men when you get to know them are not half as bad as women make them out to be. However, a good amount of feminists when you get to know them are WORSE then they make men out to be.
I shut several up with that and got many a guffaw with that. Douchey? Yes. Blatantly untrue? Probably. Everyone met a few feminists like that to make that example resonate? YUP.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
No offense, but I think you need to do A LOT of homework, before you make such ridiculous claims!
There are minorities in every groups and gender, there's nothing "false" and it's not considered a "generalization" when majority of a gender is attracted to the opposite sex and on top of that to a certain trait of the opposite sex.
Are you posting from an Utopian Future a'la Demotion Man, where sex doesn't need to exist for procreation? Don't get ahead of yourself there buddy.
Yes all faults in humans is the fault of patriarchy, women are incapable of negative attitudes towards anyone. Onlythe positive qualities of women are not influenced by men
Machoism would also exist in a matriarchy too btw buddy
Fortunately matriarchy is not the goal of feminism.
Devolution
Member
Point was if you want society to change its perceptions of boys/men you need to get more men on that train.
I never once implied that it was. I just stated that machoism wouldnt die if we changed towards the opposite.
As far as modern anthropologists are aware, there has never been a matriarchal society in all of human civilisation. Early hunter gathers were supposedly egalitarian, with both genders performing similar roles. But then all societies became patriarchal.
Evolutionary psychology suggests that the move to patriarchal societies was shaped by sexual selection. Males competed for females (and female selected successful males). Culture then reinforced those defined masculine (competitive) and feminine (selective) traits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bateman's_principle
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
You're right. Their main goal is father gubmints.
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