autobzooty
Member
Gui_PT said:
I KNEW it would involve
the bucket
-
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The Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge: Special Edition |OT|
- Thread starter Shard
- Start date
I KNEW it would involve
God. This is so embarrassing. I used to blaze through adventure games as a kid, easily grasping the often-crazy logic and putting together various puzzles, and now as an adult trying to go back to them I feel I've regressed enormously.
But I will never press H. And I will never visit Gamefaqs.
I WILL PERSEVERE.
But I will never press H. And I will never visit Gamefaqs.
I WILL PERSEVERE.
HadesGigas
Member
autobzooty said:
You need a bucket, and something dirty and messy to put in it.
autobzooty
Member
Gui_PT said:
Already figured it out. Searching for his ticket now.
autobzooty
Member
So, this may or may not be important but....
Monkey Island 2 was the first game to use iMUSE, and it is used successfully in the remade version as well. iMUSE is also used (much more heavily, I might add) in X-Wing and TIE Fighter for DOS.
Perhaps I'm still clinging too tightly to the comments that ex-LucasArts president Darrel Rodriguez said about a forthcoming X-Wing announcement several months ago, but still. If they've already successfully brought iMUSE into the modern era, then that's one less thing they have to do if they want to remake X-Wing and TIE Fighter for Steam.
Honestly, iMUSE was my favorite part of X-Wing, and I've never seen dynamic music handled better than in X-Wing and TIE Fighter. It works very well in Monkey Island 2, as well. I really hope I'm not reading too much into this. I'd kill for that series to be reborn.
Monkey Island 2 was the first game to use iMUSE, and it is used successfully in the remade version as well. iMUSE is also used (much more heavily, I might add) in X-Wing and TIE Fighter for DOS.
Perhaps I'm still clinging too tightly to the comments that ex-LucasArts president Darrel Rodriguez said about a forthcoming X-Wing announcement several months ago, but still. If they've already successfully brought iMUSE into the modern era, then that's one less thing they have to do if they want to remake X-Wing and TIE Fighter for Steam.
Honestly, iMUSE was my favorite part of X-Wing, and I've never seen dynamic music handled better than in X-Wing and TIE Fighter. It works very well in Monkey Island 2, as well. I really hope I'm not reading too much into this. I'd kill for that series to be reborn.
autobzooty
Member
Gui_PT said:
I haven't played Halo, but iMUSE is more complex than simply allowing a song to play when you're victorious. Generally speaking, it's only possible to do with MIDI for various reasons, but Super Mario Galaxy showed us that similar things can be done even with an orchestrated soundtrack.
In TIE Fighter, for instance, the song's tempo will be reduced when you're far away from combat, and as you approach, the tempo will increase and the song will change quite smoothly into something more intense. Different musical cues will come in depending on what's happening in the battle, such as when you shoot down an enemy ship or when friendly reinforcements arrive. All of this happens seamlessly and without missing a musical beat thanks to the endless power of MIDI.
faceless007
Member
Can't speak for Halo's implementation, but dynamically-shifting music is pretty common nowadays, that's not why iMuse was (and still is) so novel. As I understand it, it used a modified form of Midi that would actually add specific instruments and sounds to one underlying Midi track when certain cues were triggered, so that it still played as one continuous piece but with different harmonic lines. Think of it like a jazz ensemble, where different players come in to a song at different times even though the throughline is continuous. Even though dynamic music in games is nothing new, I've never really seen another game implement it at that deep a level; most games just have "action" cues or "exploring" cues or whatever, and the game just starts playing the right one when called without much of a transition, or a crossfade at best.
But I haven't played Halo so maybe it's better.
Edit: FFFUUUUUUU
But I haven't played Halo so maybe it's better.
Edit: FFFUUUUUUU
autobzooty
Member
faceless007 said:
Yeah, you're totally right. iMUSE is far more sophisticated than the simple musical cues we see in video games nowadays.
Edit: To get a better idea of what it does, try walking between the various areas in Monkey Island 2. The music will change, but you'll hardly even notice it because it happens so seamlessly. Also, when you row up to the Voodoo Lady's shack in the swamp, percussion is slowly added to the creepy music. X-Wing and TIE Fighter take it to a whole other level though, by changing fast paced music within a fast paced game. It's something that still hasn't been matched today.
AndyMoogle
Member
Nintendo also did something similar in Majora's Mask. For example when you run around and you start battling an enemy it smoothly transitions into the battle music and smoothly back again when the enemy is dead.
Don't remember if OoT used that system, but I'm pretty sure that Twilight Princess does as well.
Don't remember if OoT used that system, but I'm pretty sure that Twilight Princess does as well.
faceless007
Member
Yeah, I remember that in Ocarina of Time. Certain instruments would come into the music if you were in certain spots in Kokiri forest; if enemies were nearby it would go into a minor key and turn sinister but still basically be the same music.
I also remember it in Super Mario 64. In the water levels, at certain spots drums would come in and play a rhythm, but most of the time the piece was percussion-less.
I also remember it in Super Mario 64. In the water levels, at certain spots drums would come in and play a rhythm, but most of the time the piece was percussion-less.
autobzooty
Member
AndyMoogle said:
Yeah it's been in every Zelda game since and including OoT. But even still, that was just a simple cross fading of two music tracks. Nothing too complicated. Wind Waker, on the other hand, had dynamic orchestral hits when your sword would hit an enemy, and the orchestral hit would always be in tune with the music. I think TP might have done this as well. Even iMUSE never did anything like that. That kind of thing is the reason that Twilight Princess didn't have an orchestrated soundtrack.
In most cases, I think MIDI is far better for use in video games, provided you're using high quality MIDI soundbanks. People associate MIDI with "low quality sound," but that doesn't have to be the case nowadays.
The debate here is why, IMO, MI2's ending is so brilliant.
It's a mindfuck, but it's a logical one because of all the little hints they drop. And then even after they give you the whole It's a Kid at a Theme Park explanation, Elaine appears to suggest that's not true. It's basically an open ending: You get to decide for yourself which interpretation you prefer: LeChuck's Spell or Kid Guybrush's Dream.
Did you feel cheapened by the world of Monkey Island being non-existent? Fine, then LeChuck put a spell on Guybrush, it's all real, and the theme park is fake.
Loved the absurdity of the twist? Then Elaine's line at the end becomes one final shock to keep you off your toes. Personally, I prefer this. But that's my preference, and it's not one that's universally shared judging by this thread -- and that's the beauty of it. It's absolutely brilliant.
Did you feel cheapened by the world of Monkey Island being non-existent? Fine, then LeChuck put a spell on Guybrush, it's all real, and the theme park is fake.
Loved the absurdity of the twist? Then Elaine's line at the end becomes one final shock to keep you off your toes. Personally, I prefer this. But that's my preference, and it's not one that's universally shared judging by this thread -- and that's the beauty of it. It's absolutely brilliant.
autobzooty
Member
Sectus said:
XvT didn't even try. It just used the soundtrack from the movies.
XWA made an attempt, though. It had similar cues to X-Wing and TIE Fighter, but it too just used the soundtrack from the movie, so it was left with awkward and jarring changes between different songs from the movies, without any tempo or key signature coherence. In the end it just sounded like a mess and made me wish that an original soundtrack had been written for the game, preferably with MIDI.
Come to think of it, I don't think a Star Wars game has had an original soundtrack written for it sine Rogue Squadron. I'm getting quite sick of it, really. X-Wing and TIE Fighter had amazing soundtracks that were inspired by -- rather than ripped from -- the movies.
Zeliard said:
The same for me. I used to play a lot of adventures (even more recent ones like Syberia and such) and rarely used a walkthrough but with this one, i'm scratching my brain a lot.
I must be blind though as i can't find any envelopes in the jail. I need to have my map back
I don't recall blazing through these games as a kid. It would take me quite a while with some games. I played The Dig for months (not constantly, mind you, but it definitely stayed in rotation). I think I simply have less patience these days. Where as I used to be able to wander around looking at everything for hours without a problem, I now find myself simply wanting to push on if I don't find a solution fairly quickly and will consult a guide. :\Zeliard said:
Gah, I still haven't bought it because of the missing Imuse on the 360.
I even have started a thread on the official forum + send an email to the customer support but none of that was any good...
I really hope that Lucas Arts will not just forget about this and leave the 360 version incomplete
I even have started a thread on the official forum + send an email to the customer support but none of that was any good...
I really hope that Lucas Arts will not just forget about this and leave the 360 version incomplete
Ah yes, I used to do that as well. So much fun!ch0mp said:
I think the biggest challenge we faced back then was The Bizarre Adventures of Woodruff and the Schnibble of Azimuth. Now THAT was a balls out hard adventure game. It also had a very unique atmosphere that kept us going, but still, it was incredibly difficult. Discworld was up there as well.
plagiarize
Banned
I remember spending days with a friend trying to find Largo's claim ticket. Such an ingenious hiding location.dark10x said:
PuppetSlave
Member
I am old enough that when point and click adventures came out they were seen as relatively easy games. The hardcore stuff was kings quest, police quest and so on with keyboard commands. :lol
I remember playing and giving up on an adventure game called Hugo's house of horrors. I did not even manage to enter the house. Years later I learned
...
I remember playing and giving up on an adventure game called Hugo's house of horrors. I did not even manage to enter the house. Years later I learned
that the key was under the doormat all along
Kinyou said:Gah, I still haven't bought it because of the missing Imuse on the 360.
I even have started a thread on the official forum + send an email to the customer support but none of that was any good...
I really hope that Lucas Arts will not just forget about this and leave the 360 version incomplete
I did the latter, as well. I got a useless automated email back saying they were glad I was able to resolve my problem (what?).
But don't worry, LucasArts has heard the complaints. They've posted this on their Monkey Island facebook page:
LucasArts said:
dark10x said:
I doubt anyone blazed through these games the first time.
Even though Lucasarts games didn't have dead ends and you often couldn't even die, in most of them it's still pretty easy to miss an item somewhere and get stuck for a while. Or the solution to a puzzle was some sort of joke punchline that only made comedic sense, but not logical sense, like the
"monkey wrench"
plagiarize
Banned
that puzzle was murder in europe.ArjanN said:
we don't call them that in England! it made NO sense at all to me. we got stuck for so long at that point.
plagiarize
Banned
you could dead end Zak too by doing certain things. was still nothing like as brutal as Sierra titles though.itxaka said:
and it was Mars, not the moon
Jucksalbe said:
How come? The FM-Towns version is pretty awesome, even compared to MI1 and 2 it shines a lot more.
you could dead end Zak too by doing certain things. was still nothing like as brutal as Sierra titles though.
and it was Mars, not the moon
Argh! I can't believe I forgot it was mars, goddamit. Seems that I have to play it again to remember!
Radogol said:
Ahh, alright I thought he meant as less polished or with worst graphics not the gameplay.
Yep, It actually it's a difficult game and you can easier get blocked/killed/fucked easily than MI1&2.
Well I would also accept a Loom Remake. It's easier, impossible to get killed (IIRC) and different than anything else, not counting that Loom graphics on HD would be orgasmic.
Honestly, I think Day Of The Tentacle is the only adventure game that has managed to get it's puzzles just right, but that is probably due to the "single location, multiple points in time" gimmick which inspires logical (but hilarious) thinking in both the player and the puzzle designer. Only bit that got me stuck briefly was the solution to making it rain/thunder in the past, but that was a temporary blip rather than the hours-on-end "what the fuck am I meant to do??" road blocks that every other adventure game tends to have.ArjanN said:
plagiarize
Banned
Loom would be my choice. The CD version with the nice music and voice acting was edited (to fit the sound data on the CD) and doesn't have the gorgeous close ups that the FM-TOWNS version has.itxaka said:
new graphics maintaining the close ups and new voice work based on the full script (+ the audio tape) would be ideal. if they want to get back the same actors i'd have no complaints.
dark10x said:
I meant "blaze through" as relative to the point I am right now with these games, which is that of a plodding grunt. I think I've lost patience as well, but when I was younger I was also able to more effectively put certain objects together. These days I'll be playing some adventure game, and when I realize what two objects have to go together, I'm just like "what? THAT goes with THAT?" But when I was a kid, stuff like that seemed perfectly sensical. :lol
As far as The Dig, well, that one is just nutty. If anyone's managed to beat that game without some sort of outside help, they deserve an award. I remember the puzzles getting particularly obtuse towards the end. Even so, one of the most memorable games I played as a kid. I particularly loved the setting and the atmosphere. Wonderful art that game had.