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The New Board Game Thread (Newcomer Friendly)
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Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Tom Vasel mentioned that Pandasaurus will be reprinting another favorite game of his. Do we know what this is yet or is Stooge able to comment on when we might find out at all?
I need to get that.
I'm not cravenly promoting it while great fire is running on kickstarter. But we are doing the first English edition of Lost Valley.
I recently started playing it, after learning that it moved from a collectible format to a cheaper, more deterministic one. It's a really good game and I'm sort of sad that I'm discovering it after it has been dead for two years.Went to my storage today and bumped into Monsterpocalypse. Think I'm going to give it another shot since I have so many cool figs that must be played with.
What is this referring to? I know the Voltron game (which wasn't that good even though it did simplify things by taking out buildings) but did they do something else after that?
What do I know I'm not in the board-games business, but I feel like with the quality of their minis if they had made it more board-game style in terms of their promotion and business model, with just a bunch of mini-expansions, they would have made an absolute killing. People will very clearly pay for premium bits as long as there's a decent game associated. Just look at Zombiepocalypse which isn't even pre-painted.
BattleMonkey
Member
They rerelease the original factions in starter sets that gave you a full force of a single faction with pretty much all the figs, instead of it being collectible anymore. They dropped the whole collectible thing and tried to revive the game using that format yet it didn't really do anything, and Privateer Press pretty much just has ignored the game since
Man, I remember they were going to have a movie about it and everything. They have all those molds and whatnot just seems like a waste. I still say go the traditional board-game route. Dumb down the rules and ditch the crappy paper board. It did wonders for Summoner Wars (well the second part, SW is way easier than MP to begin with).
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
how's your roller coaster game coming?
BattleMonkey
Member
Privateer Press is quick to drop games, they had huge success with their mini game Warmachines, but everything else they do tends to end up on a clearance shelf eventually. They are doing right now what appears to be their own version of Space Hulk style of game.
Monsterpoc was huge when it launched, stores sold out quick and went through several production runs, but after that initial hyped up release, game was dead in the water. The game was just seen as too difficult by much of the CMG player crowd who are used to super simple games. The collectible nature also was kind of wrong for it though, as people wanted to play a faction in the game, yet buy packs to get random figs of all the factions?
Collectible mini games work generally because you can take anything you get in your booster packs, and toss it on the table as playable. Couldn't really do this in Monsterpocalypse. Before you could really play, you had to buy a ton of packs to get enough of a single faction to play. Starter set was not even a playable force, just random figs with a bunch of extras and the rules. Lot of people bought packs at first due to the hype, and were pissed to have a bunch of shit they couldn't really play with unless they kept spending more money on random pulls. Other games usually have the sense of releasing starters that are fully playable out of the box
Monsterpoc was huge when it launched, stores sold out quick and went through several production runs, but after that initial hyped up release, game was dead in the water. The game was just seen as too difficult by much of the CMG player crowd who are used to super simple games. The collectible nature also was kind of wrong for it though, as people wanted to play a faction in the game, yet buy packs to get random figs of all the factions?
Collectible mini games work generally because you can take anything you get in your booster packs, and toss it on the table as playable. Couldn't really do this in Monsterpocalypse. Before you could really play, you had to buy a ton of packs to get enough of a single faction to play. Starter set was not even a playable force, just random figs with a bunch of extras and the rules. Lot of people bought packs at first due to the hype, and were pissed to have a bunch of shit they couldn't really play with unless they kept spending more money on random pulls. Other games usually have the sense of releasing starters that are fully playable out of the box
Oh wow it was even complex by CMG standards? For some reason I always thought CMGs were fairly complex and MP was on par. By most BG standards it definitely was. I'm still going to suck it up though and finally learn it for real. I think if my friend and I stick to a single army and just get really familiar with its abilities then we should be fine. Where the game is overwhelming is in the army and board-building stage where you have literally like 50+ abilities to think about, not to mention building abilities, etc.
Let me share some links you might find helpful (I did):
The Definitive Monsterpocalypse Tutorial (YouTube) - ten part series that gets you into the game pretty quick. Watch the first three or four parts, then read the manual.
MonPoc Ability Cards - These handy dandy cards have all the abilities and rules written on them for each unit. These reference sheets will make a huge difference.
I recommend playing the first game with only two types of units (including their elite versions, which have similar abilities). Don't use more than a handful - maybe 8 or so instead of the allowed 15. Probably also a good idea to limit the types of buildings you bring in. Start with 6 of the more basic ones and work your way up into the good stuff. Finally, pay close attention to the power moves. Monsters are all about power moves, and nothing is as satisfying as body slamming your enemy into a nuclear power plant for 3 damage.
It's not a super complex game - certainly not more complex than something like BattleLore or Dust Tactics. It's just that the abilities are obscured by mysterious little icons and there is a lot of referencing you need to do (unless you use the cards I linked to above).
I wouldn't say that. It appears that Monsterpocalypse did okay for them, but for some reason, when they sold the movie rights, that's when the updates stopped. Some sort of gag order or something - they had been showing models from a proposed 6th series up until that point. Last I heard, either Tim Burton was set to direct the film or they were sitting on it, waiting to see how Pacific Rim was going to do... or both.
The core mechanics are insanely easy, yes. But the abilities seriously complicate things. Especially when you look at a single unit and he's being affected by like four separate abilities (in addition to his own 2-4 abilities) spread out over 4-5 phases. Then multiply that for all the units on the board.
Nothing innately wrong with that but it does make the game crazy though to get into when superficially it feels super simple.
Nothing innately wrong with that but it does make the game crazy though to get into when superficially it feels super simple.
BattleMonkey
Member
The game sold extremely well, at launch. There was tons of excitement and hype for it, they sold out right away of the first several runs. Problem is after people got the game, it all went downhill. The hype sold the game early and stores stocked up big time and made big orders on the first expansion. But the game as a CMG failed largely due to the horrible way they released it as I outlined already. I was one of the main demo guys for PP at our local shop and it was a struggle to get people into the game. They would buy a starter and a few packs and essentially not be able to play. Most of these gamers were already into other popular games and seeing how their hefty starting purchases were nowhere near enough, it turned many away. The requirements and difficulty in getting enough buildings for standard play was even worse and added another element of cost beyond just collecting enough of your specific faction. CMG's are designed around being random packs and that players can easily mix and match, MonPoc was not designed that way so it completely went against the spirit of CMG's players were used too.
Stores bought up tons of the first two sets but the damage was done, players had made up their mind about the game. Almost everyone who came into the local shops had bought or tried it, but they passed on the game due to the factors I mentioned, or them finding it of a bit higher complexity than they are used too. Stores were overstocked on the first expansion since they had ordered during the game's early blitz of sell outs, and soon after the expansion packs were being put on clearance on many sites just as the 3rd expansion released. Many stores still stuck with inventory of the first two sets didn't order any or much of set 3. Not a single local store here in the South Florida area carried set 4, and they all went big into the game at first. They did attempt the relaunch in the format the game should have been from the start, but PP put no marketing at all into it, they just released the new starter sets with nothing behind it to actually sell the game. Most figured that these new starters were merely left overs being repackaged to get rid of.
The Monpoc movie is probably not going to happen, studios option off licenses all the time and nothing comes of it, and Burton's plate is really full, wouldn't expect nothing more than a producer credit at best.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Well congrats. I know nothing about that game but I've backed both of your games so far so I'll certainly check that one out when the time comes.
I'm sure you're thrilled with the releases you've gotten the rights to and I hope you're on track to make a few bucks eventually.
Played my first round of Descent with friends and work buddies yesterday before going to see the Batman movie.
We had a great time! I totally messed up my role as the Overlord during the first turn by not realizing what I should have done in order to win (played the First Blood quest). It was fun, the players had a good time, I had a good time and it was finally a Fantasy Flight game you could explain while playing (with maybe some brief introduction on the game, cards and few basic rules).
We had a great time! I totally messed up my role as the Overlord during the first turn by not realizing what I should have done in order to win (played the First Blood quest). It was fun, the players had a good time, I had a good time and it was finally a Fantasy Flight game you could explain while playing (with maybe some brief introduction on the game, cards and few basic rules).
I believe all that you are saying. I've never seen MonPoc in a local store - even at the beginning when it was supposed to be popular. And I bought a starter set only to realize that the expensive set couldn't even be used to play the game so it went into the closet. Tried to read the manual a few times, but never made any sense of it (until I saw those YouTube tutorials)
Even the repackaging has been mishandled. The Two-Player Starter Box does give you enough to play a real game - and it seems to be selling on Amazon - but the factions are random so it's still cheaper to buy cases of Rise if you want to guarantee a specific faction. Even if you happen to luck into the faction you want, you only get one of the two Monsters for the faction. The D.M.Z. boxes are much better - you can choose the faction and you get everything from series 2 and 3. Only problem is, at this point, it is impossible to find certain factions - Terrasaurs and Lords of Cthul are sold out everywhere.
The game was mismanaged at basically every level, but now that I've gotten a chance to have some real games with it, I'm deeply impressed with it. It plays great and really has the feel of a kaiju beatdown. If you are lucky enough to get the factions you want from the starter box (I didn't), you can get into the game very cheaply. I really wish they had skipped the collectible aspect from the start and treated the game more like a pre-painted Warmachine.
I'm not exactly holding my breath for it. I'm just saying that it appears that the future of the game depends entirely on what happens with the movie. It may already be too late to revive.
Sounds great! Can't wait for the German release now. Already went through the rules and the game really seems to be quite easy to understand. At least I had no trouble understanding everything with just one time reading it. Then again there was a time when I was palying Warhammer 40k.
Did any of you guys check out Express 01 yet? Eggertspiele (The Village) are basically doing their own Kickstarter thing together with Spiele-Offensive.de: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=spieleschmiede&cfid=1
It's an 18XX inspired card game that can be played in an hour. There are also English rules:https://www.spiele-offensive.de/downloads/express_rules_V1.pdf
Thoughts? I think it does look interesting.
Risible
Member
18xx-style that plays quickly? Fuck yes. I love 18xx, but good fucking luck getting anyone to play it with you if you don't have a group of diehard 18xx fans
. I'll be sure to check it out.BattleMonkey
Member
Have you played the original to compare it too?
Sadly no, I wish I had, would have been a fun experience to have at least tried the first edition too.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
I have a simple (probably dumb) question about King of Tokyo. With the "discard" power cards do you have to use them right away or can you keep them and use them at a later time?
You have to use them right away.
Sounds great! Can't wait for the German release now. Already went through the rules and the game really seems to be quite easy to understand. At least I had no trouble understanding everything with just one time reading it. Then again there was a time when I was palying Warhammer 40k.
Did any of you guys check out Express 01 yet? Eggertspiele (The Village) are basically doing their own Kickstarter thing together with Spiele-Offensive.de: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=spieleschmiede&cfid=1
It's an 18XX inspired card game that can be played in an hour. There are also English rules:https://www.spiele-offensive.de/downloads/express_rules_V1.pdf
Thoughts? I think it does look interesting.
I was actually in negotiations about 3 months ago to be the US publisher of this title.
They sent me a list of their available Essen Games that didn't have a US publisher and I jumped all over it. They never really showed a ton of interest in me publishing the title. I'm guessing it's even less likely now.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Cool, that's what we were doing, I just wanted to make sure.
platypotamus
Member
I will hopefully try second edition within the week and played first edition, so I'll post some thoughts after I do.
I posted a while back that I was just getting into modern board games, and continuing on that, I bought Dominion over the weekend. My wife and I have been playing it, and the way every game plays out differently is unreal. Some games are all about getting the Province cards, and in others, you never even get 8 to spend in an single hand.
On a related note, how in the hell do you resist the urge to immediately spend $50 on expansions?
On a related note, how in the hell do you resist the urge to immediately spend $50 on expansions?
narcosis219
Member
Convince yourself that the $50 is better spent on a brand new game. A $50 new game will have more replayability than an expansion.
I kind of have this thing against expansions because I find in a lot of cases, they add more complexity to an otherwise well balanced game. Of course, there are a lot of good and sometimes necessary expansions, but for the most part, games usually aren't broke, and adding a new mechanic or part to a game kind of makes things worse.
In the case of Dominion specifically, the expansions are worth getting because they are yet another set of cards you can add to the pool you choose from. Having said that, Dominion is a game where the game changes every time you play it. You're probably going to get a lot of replayability out of the base set on that premise alone. Wait until you've played with all the cards a few times and are finally getting bored of them before you get an expansion. That way you'll be able to really see the difference between different sets and understand each card rather than just play with a gigantic pool of 50-100 kingdom cards that you will probably have a hard time familiarizing yourself with.
Debbie Downer about Dominion:
In my opinion, obviously, but this game is the same game every time you play it. No matter how interesting the kingdom cards are, rushing for Silver, Gold, and Platinum is almost always going to be the best/fastest strategy. Unless there is actually a killer combination of cards in the pool, you can just buy your way up to Silver, Gold, and Platinum and immediately start taking Provences/Colonies. Once your playgroup figures this out, it becomes dull real fast. Most victories that I see are from money-buying strategies. Most other Kingdom Card based strategies are just too slow. They spend too much time buying Kingdom Cards and by the time their "combo" gets up and running, the others have already got Silver and Gold in their decks and are just buying Provences every turn. Hence, why I hate dominion. =P
You don't, you succumb to it. Then start looking into other board games out of curiosity, and fall down a pricey rabbit hole.
At least that's what I did, and it all started with Dominion. Can't say I'm not enjoying my purchases immensely each time they get broken out though.
You can see a bunch of stats and theory crafting at dominionstrategy.com but that might ruin dominion for you if you like the game to figure these things out by yourself. Anecdotally, I find the majority of my wins do not involve big money.
narcosis219
Member
Just to qualify my debbie downer: I've played over 100+ games with Base, Intrigue, Seaside, Alchemy, and Prosperity. I quit after prosperity because that set made big money the best strategy to play 95% of the time.
Let's just say that Dominion shouldn't be treated like a Euro where you're trying to min/max and win the game. It works great if you're playing casually and want to experiment with different card combos.
I just think that big money is too available in every single game to just... not play big money. Why buy a kingdom card on your first turn that is a small piece of a larger combo when you can have instant dividends with Silver? Kingdom Card combos are inherently slower because they rely on other cards. Not only spending turns on obtaining said Kingdom Cards, but actually drawing them in a single hand in order for them to work. You might think that getting Cards that let you draw will fix this problem by increasing your chances of drawing your combo cards together (like smithy or village), but using those cards cost you turns to obtain them, and a lot of the +Cards effects just replace themselves (using a village is equivalent to not having drawn the village at all. You just replaced it, netting you 0 extra cards. Sometimes the extra actions become relevant, however). Because most of your deck early game is Copper anyway, you're not likely to draw your other part of your combo, and now you've wasted a turn doing nothing while big money players are building up their pool of money. If you buy money cards every turn, you don't run into this issue because your deck is mostly comprised of copper and other money cards anyway. It's just more efficient and statistically favorable.
I am a player who is a minimaxer, so that probably explains why I have my opinion. Hope I didn't ruin Dominion for you.......
narcosis219
Member
Thank you for condensing my giant wall of text to 3 sentences LOL. Very well said.
If you play Magic, you will find that "big money" is akin to decks that have high consistency (high return, low variance). These decks are what dominate high level play. Being able to actually do things on your turn is super important, and in Magic, if you do nothing for a turn (i.e. play Smithy/Village and draw nothing useful), then you have a very high chance of losing that game because you're "behind in the race". It's not as bad in Dominion as it is in Magic, but that's the general idea.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
You don't resist
Dominion was one of the first games I got, alongside Carcassonne and Settlers of Catan and I immediately wanted expansions. It's addictive and exciting getting new cards, but you should play quite a bit before expanding.Eventually I think every good player starts assembling specific tactics and forming engines that can easily combat Big Money. I remember the first time I got rid of my starting cards with a chapel and buying silvers, golds and a smithy. A very basic engine, but once I considered the concept of trashing my starting estates and copper it blew my mind how streamlined my deck became.
Big Money is seen as a beginners technique, and a one that other beginners will fail to improve on and thus they give up and decide it's the only way to win. Statistically it is almost never the best strategy available on the table. Even something as simple as big money + Smithy + Witch is going to destroy someone using raw big money. One things for certain, challenging big money even if you're not a great player is way more fulfilling and fun. You'll learn to combat it better and you'll probably enjoy your game more, even if you lose.
You definitely haven't ruined it for me, as I actually noticed as much through the first few matches. Every single match came down to who bought 5 Province cards and who only got 3, and that was tied to who started buying gold first (or, if we each got 4 provinces, who got 5 duchys and who got 3). But then we played with the "size distortion" recommended set and it was totally different. Without a moat, the witch and thief made getting gold difficult and risky.
I'd just like to say that the fact that I can't get any of my friends to play anything more complex than Risk or Cards Against Humanity is super lame. I continue to buy games, amassing a collection with Race for the Galaxy, Catan, Dominion, Arkham Horror, and tons more, but the most complex thing I can get played is occasionally Last Night on Earth and sometimes Carcassonne. I don't know why I keep buying games on this hope someday in the future things will change.
Now to debate picking up Diplomacy.
Now to debate picking up Diplomacy.
Yeah no offense but I would question the caliber of your playgroup if you can just go Big Money every single time in Dominion and win. If you go Big Money you literally have 0 way to interact with your opponents and if they start disrupting your hand or diluting your deck with curses or other cards you won't be able to get 8+ gold for a Province consistently.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
oh god, good luck getting people to play Diplomacy. One of my all-time favorites, but that's an epic game that causes friendships and family relations to be strained
narcosis219
Member
When I say "Big Money", I mean that money cards are the the focus of the deck. Notice how I was discussing about Kingdom Card Combos and my note about how consistency is a defining factor of a good deck.
Obviously, if there is Chapel, you always buy them. Same with any other card that is good on their own and doesn't require a combo to be good. They do something advantageous every time you get them and don't rely on another card. Obviously, deck thinning cards like chapel are no brainers, and Witch which does the opposite is great.
Guys, trust me, I'm not playing straight up only money buying. I play in a variety of playgroups (totalling about 20-30 people, on BrettSpielWelt and isotropic) and Big Money + good standalone kingdom cards is a very good way to play.
This is why I try to stay away from strategy forums and the like. I even feel bad now given how easy it is for me to spam games on mobile devices -- problem is they're just too fun to avoid . It's crazy how ruthlessly the Internets and technologies can expose OP strategies.
Why I luck a decent element of luck in my games too. Have an unstoppable strategy honed over hundreds of games of Summoner Wars? Take my 100% successful rolling sucka!
I even feel bad now given how easy it is for me to spam games on mobile devices -- problem is they're just too fun to avoid . It's crazy how ruthlessly the Internets and technologies can expose OP strategies. Why I luck a decent element of luck in my games too. Have an unstoppable strategy honed over hundreds of games of Summoner Wars? Take my 100% successful rolling sucka!
I don't buy games to play, i buy them to look at on my shelf!
Sounds like you need to start/join a game group.
But yeah it's hard to find time to play games even if you have TONS of willing people to play with. Most games take 1.5 hours minimum with explanations. If I can play 3-4 games/week I consider it a smashing success and I run a big game group at work and my wife loves board games.
But yeah it's hard to find time to play games even if you have TONS of willing people to play with. Most games take 1.5 hours minimum with explanations. If I can play 3-4 games/week I consider it a smashing success and I run a big game group at work and my wife loves board games.
yeah you're a lucky guy lol now stop rubbing it in
Are you me? I've had success with Dominion, but Race for the Galaxy, Innovation and even Summoner Wars are met with the "this is too complicated" and rest on my shelf
thank god for iOS board games.Are you me? I've had success with Dominion, but Race for the Galaxy, Innovation and even Summoner Wars are met with the "this is too complicated" and rest on my shelf
I had good luck starting them with Ticket to Ride, then I brought Dominion and that worked well enough, I then got them to try Elder Signs and that was enjoyed and KIng of Tokyo was a big hit.. so I am slowly working them to waterdeep or dungeon crawlers.. we'll see what happens lol..
basically, anything i can play with 2 players is good enough for me and my bro due to our competitive nature. We basically decide who pays for whatever we do together by playing some sort of game. We recently had a best of 5 Ascension match to determine who would pay for sushi after Batman.
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