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[AcridMeat]

As someone who is new to playing tabletop in general, and only just bought dominion and has been playing and enjoying it quite a lot, would Ascension be recommended or too similar? I know it's also a deck building game but I've heard good things.

Alternatively what would be a good next game? Preferably something with a board and pieces. I've looked at what's really popular (Arkham horror, race to the galaxy, ticket to ride, settlers of Catan, etc) and Im having a hard time deciding.

Edit: I'm also interested in android netrunner

 

[Apenheul]

^ With how many players do you typically play?

 

[Smiles Davis]

As someone who is new to playing tabletop in general, and only just bought dominion and has been playing and enjoying it quite a lot, would Ascension be recommended or too similar? I know it's also a deck building game but I've heard good things.

Ascension's base game is free right now for iOS. If you have something to play it on, pick it up and you can see if you like it. It has a purchasing mechanic like Dominion and adds a combat mechanic. The cards that are available to purchase are always changing whereas Dominion's market for the entire game is static. This can sometimes be fun and interesting and sometimes frustrating.

I would recommend buying something other than another deck builder as a second game, unless you're really in love with the mechanic. The OP list of recommendations is top notch. Also, check out the Recommendations thread on boardgamegeek http://boardgamegeek.com/forum/8/boardgamegeek/recommendations if you haven't already.

I've had several good game nights with nongamers playing Dominion, Ticket to Ride and Love Letter. All 3 play quick, are easy to teach, have easily identifiable and easy to execute strategies and give you very different unique experiences. If you're primarily playing with people who you will need to convince to play, I can recommend those.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I'm holding off on Pathfinder ACG until the hype is over, I'm definitely interested based on pretty much unanimous praise but I'm not really seeing the fun yet. Almost bought Shadows over Camelot but the store owner warned me that it's probably not for me (I'm really into difficult games) and in the end I walked away with the Dunwich Horror expansion for AH which hopefully makes AH significantly more difficult. .

Don't see why he would turn you away from Shadows. It can be brutal at times.

 

[Apenheul]

Don't see why he would turn you away from Shadows. It can be brutal at times.

I must admit that he hasn't completely talked me out of it, I mean the game looks great and coop/team-based games generally do get the most playtime here. And.. since you're here anyway Have you played Tide of Iron? I'd like to buy a historical miniatures (war/board)game with a good variety of units and sufficient strategic/tactical depth that can be played within 5 hours with 2 players. I love PC games like Panzer corps and would like a board game that scratches that itch. Perhaps you know something better, I've tried Memoir '44 (without expansions) but I'd like something a bit more complex, I don't mind turns taking 10 minutes or more.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I would usually recommend Conflict of Heroes, great game system for WWII like games. It's old school wargame looking though with just chits and not huge production values, but it plays quick and smooth with lot of realism. Most realistic historical wargames take forever or get overly complex by trying to be overly real.

Tide of Iron is real good game, the only real issue I ever had with it is that it's just a big competent heavy game so the whole set up/take down is kinda of a pain (like the infantry and having to pop them in and out of their bases). As a wargame, it's solid and straddles the line of realistic and fun.

 

[fenners]

I would usually recommend Conflict of Heroes, great game system for WWII like games. It's old school wargame looking though with just chits and not huge production values, but it plays quick and smooth with lot of realism. Most realistic historical wargames take forever or get overly complex by trying to be overly real.

Tide of Iron is real good game, the only real issue I ever had with it is that it's just a big competent heavy game so the whole set up/take down is kinda of a pain (like the infantry and having to pop them in and out of their bases). As a wargame, it's solid and straddles the line of realistic and fun.

Yep, I own both of these & BattleMonkey is on the money. Conflict of Heroes lacks the minatures of ToI but is a better & easier to learn game experience. I /like/ Tide of Iron, and it's a great experience, but Conflict is just easier to learn/teach and play.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Yeah I wish the infantry were easier to setup as well. 1A Games is relaunching there Stalingrad Kickstarter after complaints about poor stretch goals and shipping costs. Not sure of they will be able to do much about shipping.

 

[Apenheul]

Thanks guys, my local store's supplier has CoH: Price of Honour and CoH:Awakening the Bear 2nd Edition. The difference in price suggests that PoH is not a standalone game, so I guess I'll just order Awakening the Bear then.

*EDIT: After watching two reviews on Youtube Conflict of Heroes is pretty much everything I wanted. So thanks again for this great recommendation.

 

[soldat7]

So I'm digging The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game. What are the must-have expansions? There's a bunch!

 

[BattleMonkey]

So I'm digging The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game. What are the must-have expansions? There's a bunch!

Nothing really is must buy, but you generally want to buy the cycles in order. Some of the adventure packs require you have the larger format expansion set to be playable and such. Usually there was a deluxe expansion, followed by 6 adventure packs that go with it.

 

[Angst]

Yeah I am also missing India. It seems to be OOP. I'll get it once there is a reprint.

Sorry for quoting you from weeks back, but I believe Days of Wonder announced that India is being reprinted and thus should be available again.
Yep, here it is: http://blog.daysofwonder.com/2013/08/31/ticket-to-ride-india-is-back-on-the-tracks/#more-6342

I played Pandemic for the first time yesterday with a buddy. He rolled the Doctor and I the Scientist. I think we were pretty lucky as we managed to win the game on the first try. Well, luck and of course we played it wrong too... We missed the rule about having to have the appropriate card to build a research station and this made it a bit easier than intended. I also suspect that him being the Doctor and me the Scientist made things easier. Oh well, we'll play a four person game tonigh and see how that goes.

 

[StoOgE]

So I'm digging The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game. What are the must-have expansions? There's a bunch!

It's super super confusing expansion wise. The thing to remember is these aren't standard board game expansions. It's a deck builder that is designed to be purchased in order to make sure that power creep winds up somewhat even.

You need to go through these roughly in order, and before moving on to a new cycle (usually 6 small expansions) you need to buy the deluxe expansion for that cycle.

So it goes:

base game -> Shadows of Mirkwood Cycle (6 minis)
Kahzad Dum deluxe -> Dwarrowdelf Cycle (6 minis)
Heirs of Númenor deluxe -> Against the Shadow Cycle (6 minis)

There are also "Saga Expansions" that follow the books story and not the story for the "main" game. These each have 3 scenarios and require the base game as well, but don't have any mini expansions to go with them.

The Hobbit - Overhill and Underhill
The Hobbit - On the Doorstep
The Black Riders
Road to Darkness (TBR)

There are 3 print on demand expansions, which are basically 1-off scenarios.

Massing as Osgilath
Battle of Lake Town
Stone of Erech

There are also a series of "nightmare" packs that they started putting out. These are basically a handful of cards that get added to the main-line "cycles" to make them harder. I think these have been released for the first and half of the second cycle.

 

[StoOgE]

As someone who is new to playing tabletop in general, and only just bought dominion and has been playing and enjoying it quite a lot, would Ascension be recommended or too similar? I know it's also a deck building game but I've heard good things.

Alternatively what would be a good next game? Preferably something with a board and pieces. I've looked at what's really popular (Arkham horror, race to the galaxy, ticket to ride, settlers of Catan, etc) and Im having a hard time deciding.

Edit: I'm also interested in android netrunner

It's too similar to be your second game. They are different enough to own both Dominion and Ascension, but not if they are the only two games in your collection

I would go with Ticket to Ride as a good second game, followed up by Carcasonne and then maybe moving up to a meatier game. I'd look at the OP that has good entry games and next step games.

I will say: Don't buy Arkham Horror yet (it's really complicated) or Race for the Galaxy (You are better off grabbing Puerto Rico or San Juan which are a little easier to grasp but similar games).

You'll need to figure out at some point if you prefer Euro games or Thematic games (or games that toe the line).

 

[BattleMonkey]

Yea the newer cards in more recent cycle and such already have the nightmare mode icons built in.

You can get pdf off FFG's site that has instructions on changing difficulty modes on older scenarios since they released the game originally with only one set difficulty. Now you can choose to play on easy, normal, or nightmare.

 

[StoOgE]

Yea the newer cards in more recent cycle and such already have the nightmare mode icons built in.

You can get pdf off FFG's site that has instructions on changing difficulty modes on older scenarios since they released the game originally with only one set difficulty. Now you can choose to play on easy, normal, or nightmare.

I fell off early in the Khazad Dum cycle (despite loving the game) because my gaming group just couldn't be bothered to do the deck construction, and I don't think there is enough game there without doing that.

I'll probably run into the same issue with Pathfinder pretty quick.

 

[Ohnonono]

Thanks guys, my local store's supplier has CoH: Price of Honour and CoH:Awakening the Bear 2nd Edition. The difference in price suggests that PoH is not a standalone game, so I guess I'll just order Awakening the Bear then.

*EDIT: After watching two reviews on Youtube Conflict of Heroes is pretty much everything I wanted. So thanks again for this great recommendation.

ATB 2nd edition is amazing stuff. Hits the table way more often than most hex and counter stuff and the components massively outclass games in the genre.

X-Wing got me. Got a Firespray, core set, TIE Bomber, and an Interceptor. 2 A wings and a B Wing on the way. Gonna get either 2 small ships or one big one this weekend. Falcon/Imp. Shuttle, or HWK and and another Bomber.

 

[Keasar]

What's this? SeaFall? A 4X game that takes what was really cool with Risk: Legacy, the Legacy thing and applies it to a game with less Risk?

And its being made by PlaidHatGames!?

MONEY ALL OVER IT!

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

What's this? SeaFall? A 4X game that takes what was really cool with Risk: Legacy, the Legacy thing and applies it to a game with less Risk?

And its being made by PlaidHatGames!?

MONEY ALL OVER IT!

Yeah it looks awesome. Daviau is a really underrated designer, any good Hasbro game was more than likely designed by him. I'm really looking forward to seeing more.

 

[Karkador]

As this game is older, there may have already been discussion about it here, but I really have to ask:

Do people just somehow ignore that Sentinels of the Multiverse has probably the worst art in a popular board/card game? I want to try the game, but I can't get over how BAD it looks.

 

[BattleMonkey]

As this game is older, there may have already been discussion about it here, but I really have to ask:

Do people just somehow ignore that Sentinels of the Multiverse has probably the worst art in a popular board/card game? I want to try the game, but I can't get over how BAD it looks.

People ignore it because its a damn good game.

 

[fenners]

People ignore it because its a damn good game.

Yep. It's inconsistent for sure, but it captures the mood well, mostly. The art reminds me of City of Heroes, the MMO... Damn fun game too.

 

[Karkador]

Yep. It's inconsistent for sure, but it captures the mood well, mostly. The art reminds me of City of Heroes, the MMO... Damn fun game too.

I think it's perfectly consistent, from everything I've seen of it....it's just that it's a really, really bad look. Like, 14 year old on DeviantArt level of artwork. I hate to really rag on board games in general, since they're typically very small productions by a handful of people, and I know that I've enjoyed things that people have found less-than-stellar...but I honestly don't know how the creators aren't embarrassed by that artwork. It seems very difficult to justify its retail price (for the base set, $40) when the artwork makes it look really poorly made and amateur.

Not to mention they made an Enhanced Edition that still looks this way, basically standing behind the artwork. Is there some kind of thematic reason for why it looks the way it does?

I mean, it's surprising and interesting that so many people say it's a great game, it makes me want to try it, but we might as well play with blank cards if the art is going to look that bad. Also, City of Heroes looked wayyyy better.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I think it's perfectly consistent, from everything I've seen of it....it's just that it's a really, really bad look. Like, 14 year old on DeviantArt level of artwork. I hate to really rag on board games in general, since they're typically very small productions by a handful of people, and I know that I've enjoyed things that people have found less-than-stellar...but I honestly don't know how the creators aren't embarrassed by that artwork. It seems very difficult to justify its retail price (for the base set, $40) when the artwork makes it look really poorly made and amateur.

Not to mention they made an Enhanced Edition that still looks this way, basically standing behind the artwork. Is there some kind of thematic reason for why it looks the way it does?

I mean, it's surprising and interesting that so many people say it's a great game, it makes me want to try it, but we might as well play with blank cards if the art is going to look that bad. Also, City of Heroes looked wayyyy better.

It looks the way it does, because it's the same artist who is one the creators. It's a very small group who makes the game. Now to be fair, the enhanced art is better than the original, but yea it's still bad. But it's a real good game, it was largely ignored when it came out in large part due to the art, but as people play it, the game continues to grow in popularity. Anyone we introduce the game to has loved it.

After so many cards have been put out for it, don't see them going back and hiring a separate artist to redo the entire game.

 

[Hydranockz]

What's this? SeaFall? A 4X game that takes what was really cool with Risk: Legacy, the Legacy thing and applies it to a game with less Risk?

And its being made by PlaidHatGames!?

MONEY ALL OVER IT!

Will there be permanently destroyed cards and stuff in this? Risk: Legacy feels like the sort of game you would split to buy with your friends so you wouldn't feel bad about getting rid of stuff.

 

[Xater]

Soooo Essen this year:

I will be there, but I will be working for Indie Boards & Cards. That means I am not sure if I will be able to pick something up for anyone. Neverfade and Joey can give me wishlist because I have already dealt with them. No money required from you guys up front, because I can't guarantee that I will have the time. If I get your stuff I'll let you know after the convention is over.

 

[bloodydrake]

Reaper Bones II kickstarter has started
already blew thru the initial pledge amount in 3minutes
its hit 150k in about 18mins
lots of early birds left
gonna be another fun ride for sure

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-ii-the-return-of-mr-bones/posts

 

[soldat7]

It's super super confusing expansion wise. The thing to remember is these aren't standard board game expansions. It's a deck builder that is designed to be purchased in order to make sure that power creep winds up somewhat even.

You need to go through these roughly in order, and before moving on to a new cycle (usually 6 small expansions) you need to buy the deluxe expansion for that cycle.

So it goes:

base game -> Shadows of Mirkwood Cycle (6 minis)
Kahzad Dum deluxe -> Dwarrowdelf Cycle (6 minis)
Heirs of Númenor deluxe -> Against the Shadow Cycle (6 minis)

There are also "Saga Expansions" that follow the books story and not the story for the "main" game. These each have 3 scenarios and require the base game as well, but don't have any mini expansions to go with them.

The Hobbit - Overhill and Underhill
The Hobbit - On the Doorstep
The Black Riders
Road to Darkness (TBR)

There are 3 print on demand expansions, which are basically 1-off scenarios.

Massing as Osgilath
Battle of Lake Town
Stone of Erech

There are also a series of "nightmare" packs that they started putting out. These are basically a handful of cards that get added to the main-line "cycles" to make them harder. I think these have been released for the first and half of the second cycle.

Good grief, money sink. I already purchased Khazad-Dum, so do I really need Mirkwood? This game will make me poor.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Keasar]

Will there be permanently destroyed cards and stuff in this? Risk: Legacy feels like the sort of game you would split to buy with your friends so you wouldn't feel bad about getting rid of stuff.

No idea, all I know is that it seems to go at least towards the "permanent changes" thing.

 

[fenners]

Good grief, money sink. I already purchased Khazad-Dum, so do I really need Mirkwood? This game will make me poor.

Thanks for the help everyone!

If you've bought Khazad Dum, you should buy the rest of that set first as they'll play off together the best in deck building. I've got the Mirkwood cycle but I don't really use it much - I prefer the two bigger box Hobbit story sets. Dwarves for the win.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Bought Hanabi on a whim today and played it with a friend at a bar. It was a fun light co-op game and I imagine it gets really hard with more people. Totally worth 10 bucks though.

 

[Apenheul]

Soooo Essen this year:

I will be there, but I will be working for Indie Boards & Cards. That means I am not sure if I will be able to pick something up for anyone. Neverfade and Joey can give me wishlist because I have already dealt with them. No money required from you guys up front, because I can't guarantee that I will have the time. If I get your stuff I'll let you know after the convention is over.

Hmm. Essen is only 150km from my place and I'd love to go there, can I just buy a ticket there or would I need to pre-order?

Bought Hanabi on a whim today and played it with a friend at a bar. It was a fun light co-op game and I imagine it gets really hard with more people. Totally worth 10 bucks though.

Yup nice little game, I actually happen to like it most with 2 or 3 players; beyond that I'd rather play something like Bohnanza.

 

[Xater]

Hmm. Essen is only 150km from my place and I'd love to go there, can I just buy a ticket there or would I need to pre-order?

I always see people buying tickets there. Shouldn't be an issue. It's big but no Gamescom.

 

[Apenheul]

Aight, thanks.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

Soooo Essen this year:

I will be there, but I will be working for Indie Boards & Cards. That means I am not sure if I will be able to pick something up for anyone. Neverfade and Joey can give me wishlist because I have already dealt with them. No money required from you guys up front, because I can't guarantee that I will have the time. If I get your stuff I'll let you know after the convention is over.

Thanks for the offer. I'll have to see if there is anything I want this year. The only one I can think of off hand is Glass Road, but I don't know if they are releasing an English language version at Essen.

 

[Xater]

Thanks for the offer. I'll have to see if there is anything I want this year. The only one I can think of off hand is Glass Road, but I don't know if they are releasing an English language version at Essen.

Pretty sure it's a bilingual release. They have the English rules already up on their website (http://www.feuerland-spiele.de/dateien/glass_road_EN-rules.pdf) and the material is language independent.

 

[AcridMeat]

Ascension's base game is free right now for iOS. If you have something to play it on, pick it up and you can see if you like it. It has a purchasing mechanic like Dominion and adds a combat mechanic. The cards that are available to purchase are always changing whereas Dominion's market for the entire game is static. This can sometimes be fun and interesting and sometimes frustrating.

I would recommend buying something other than another deck builder as a second game, unless you're really in love with the mechanic. The OP list of recommendations is top notch. Also, check out the Recommendations thread on boardgamegeek http://boardgamegeek.com/forum/8/boardgamegeek/recommendations if you haven't already.

I've had several good game nights with nongamers playing Dominion, Ticket to Ride and Love Letter. All 3 play quick, are easy to teach, have easily identifiable and easy to execute strategies and give you very different unique experiences. If you're primarily playing with people who you will need to convince to play, I can recommend those.

It's too similar to be your second game. They are different enough to own both Dominion and Ascension, but not if they are the only two games in your collection

I would go with Ticket to Ride as a good second game, followed up by Carcasonne and then maybe moving up to a meatier game. I'd look at the OP that has good entry games and next step games.

I will say: Don't buy Arkham Horror yet (it's really complicated) or Race for the Galaxy (You are better off grabbing Puerto Rico or San Juan which are a little easier to grasp but similar games).

You'll need to figure out at some point if you prefer Euro games or Thematic games (or games that toe the line).

Thanks a lot guys for the input. I'll talk to my friend, hopefully he comes to a board game night and we can try out some new stuff to see what we like. Hopefully we can get a game of settlers of catan going to see if that's what we want.

 

[Staccat0]

My store just got Boss Monster back in stock. I am taking a trip later this month and was thinking of saving some money with a cheaper game.

Anyone have any experience with this one? Any good?

 

[daevv]

I found new sealed copies of Dominion for $25 and Twilight Struggle for $35 at a FLGS. I bought Dominion and may go back for TS. My group likes Ascension so Dominion should fit nicely. Twilight Struggle seems alittle involved for the group. Of course getting them to play anything but Pathfinder will be hard. Maybe inbetween adventure packs.

Any thoughts on Twilight Struggle? It might be worth it to buy for $35 just to flip the game for profit.

My store just got Boss Monster back in stock. I am taking a trip later this month and was thinking of saving some money with a cheaper game.

Anyone have any experience with this one? Any good?

I own it and have played it both 2 and 4 player. It's a fun and quick inbetween game. Not a whole lot of depth but we enjoy it. A few other smaller Kickstarter games have kinda pushed it out of rotation with us now. Zogars Gaze and Dungeon Roll are great inbetween games. I recently got a Magic The Gathering-ish military card game called Strategy of War (Also from Kickstarter). Instead of colored mana you have real life resources like gold, silver, oil, iron, and the like. Instead of creatures you have fighter jets, batttleships, tanks, and soldiers. I haven't plyed it much outside of some learning games but like what I've seen so far.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

I found new sealed copies of Dominion for $25 and Twilight Struggle for $35 at a FLGS. I bought Dominion and may go back for TS. My group likes Ascension so Dominion should fit nicely. Twilight Struggle seems alittle involved for the group. Of course getting them to play anything but Pathfinder will be hard. Maybe inbetween adventure packs.

Any thoughts on Twilight Struggle? It might be worth it to buy for $35 just to flip the game for profit.

Twilight Struggle is a brilliant game but it's a two player only game. The game has a bit of a learning curve too, so you will need someone who is willing to learn the game with you.

 

[Apenheul]

You absolutely need to have someone willing to learn the game with you, I bought Twilight Struggle last year and nobody except one person wanted to play it and after half a game he suggested we'd just play another game instead. Since then I've never brought it to the table anymore :/

 

[daevv]

Twilight Struggle is a brilliant game but it's a two player only game. The game has a bit of a learning curve too, so you will need someone who is willing to learn the game with you.

You absolutely need to have someone willing to learn the game with you, I bought Twilight Struggle last year and nobody except one person wanted to play it and after half a game he suggested we'd just play another game instead. Since then I've never brought it to the table anymore :/

Well that settles that. I can't get anyone in the group to try any 2 player games. I bought Android: Netrunner a while back too.

Thanks guys!

 

[AstroLad]

We somewhat resolved the two-player issue in our game group by making a separate and semi-regular "two-player game night" where people would feel more comfortable playing two-player games that otherwise frankly don't fit in very well into game night otherwise.

But one thing about 2p is the experience curve. Twilight has a huge experience curve because you benefit so much from knowledge of the cards but there's really no easy way to teach all the cards before a game. Games like Summoner Wars and other simpler games have much less of an experience curve. CCGs and LCGs of course have their own issues, but for LCGs at least if you limit yourself and your opponent to fixed decks (and just don't worry about deckbuilding at all) you can get really competitive fairly quickly.

 

[Karkador]

I played 7 Wonders for the first time last night and, despite what people have told me (that it was terrible, overly long, boring, stay away, etc.), I actually quite enjoyed it, though it makes sense with how popular and available the game is. Maybe those people were crazy and thinking of another game? It goes very quickly and smoothly.


Anyway, I'll have a shiny New Pick-Ups post to show soon, with pictures (there's a very lovely-looking game coming!)

 

[AstroLad]

"that it was terrible, overly long, boring, stay away, etc."
Wow, those are pretty weird opinions. I love 7 Wonders (especially with both expansions) but a common complaint I here is that it's too simplistic and sort of gets old kind of fast, but I've never heard "overly long" and the like. Unless the people saying that were in like a 7p game where literally no one had any idea what they were doing a game (regardless of number of players) should rarely take over 45m, which you can't say about many games, especially 7p games with even a modicum of depth.

 

[RaySpencer]

I played 7 Wonders for the first time last night and, despite what people have told me (that it was terrible, overly long, boring, stay away, etc.), I actually quite enjoyed it, though it makes sense with how popular and available the game is. Maybe those people were crazy and thinking of another game? It goes very quickly and smoothly.


Anyway, I'll have a shiny New Pick-Ups post to show soon, with pictures (there's a very lovely-looking game coming!)

uhhhhh what? Last time I played we were doing 6 player games in 15-20 minutes. haha. Twilight Imperium is overly long (awesomely long), 7 Wonders is insanely quick.

 

[Karkador]

Yeah, I'm gonna bring it up next time I see them. I avoided the game this whole time because of it!

On the other hand, I have been mulling over getting Citadels for a while now, as I am enjoying hidden role games. I finally got to play it last night, and wow...kind of a dud. We didn't even finish the game because it dragged on so long. The whole drafting of the roles each turn really bogs it down and the secrecy of it doesn't really add any intrigue. It seems almost any ability you do to other players is just to drag the game out even longer and it makes little difference to know who's who, or why.

 

[fenners]

Yeah, I'm gonna bring it up next time I see them. I avoided the game this whole time because of it!

On the other hand, I have been mulling over getting Citadels for a while now, as I am enjoying hidden role games. I finally got to play it last night, and wow...kind of a dud. We didn't even finish the game because it dragged on so long. The whole drafting of the roles each turn really bogs it down and the secrecy of it doesn't really add any intrigue. It seems almost any ability you do to other players is just to drag the game out even longer and it makes little difference to know who's who, or why.

How many players for Citadels & 7 Wonders? Just curious.

 

[Karkador]

I was part of five players for 7 Wonders and six players for Citadels

 

[fenners]

I was part of five players for 7 Wonders and six players for Citadels

Citadels is a great 2 player game, and a fun 3/4 player game but it shouldn't be played by that many folk in my experience for much the reasons you mentioned. Too slow, too much randomness. But it's a really under-appreciated 2 or 4 player game IMO.