Marvel no where near as care as much as the fan boys do lol.
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The New JL Trailer is Everything Wrong With DC's Dark Movie Universe
- Thread starter LionPride
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Marvel no where near as care as much as the fan boys do lol.
No one cares as much as weird fan boys do
BadAss2961
Member
While they're comparing the two, the new JL trailer magnifies how limp the Homecoming trailer is.
CocaMantis
Member
Nolan trilogy isn't really that dark or bleak. I find those movies really similar (in tone) to Iron Man 1 and 2. Sure, Nolan has its moments but it's nothing compared to anything Snyder did over the years. The first 15 fucking minutes of Sucker Punch are already bleaker than the whole Nolan trilogy altogheter.
And while Marvel is on the other side of the room, I think that their best tones are in Winter Soldier and Civil War. I'm not talking purely about cinematography or photography but rather about script, dialogues, humor. Avengers 1 it's a fucking comedy
and I hated that aspect of it. And when you combine a script worthy of a Seinfeld episode
with a really shiny and colourful photography...yeah, you're doomed. Snyder did the exact opposite with BvS and it didn't work either. Like I said, a middle ground between those two
worlds it's the sweet spot.
And while Marvel is on the other side of the room, I think that their best tones are in Winter Soldier and Civil War. I'm not talking purely about cinematography or photography but rather about script, dialogues, humor. Avengers 1 it's a fucking comedy
(thanks fucking lot Whedon I hope you hit your toe with the corner of a really thick furniture)
(not really, it's called "exageration" and we all do it to prove a point)
awful
karasu
Member
I'm pretty sure that Zack Snyder is one of those comic fans who grew up loving Image and Marvel because their characters were dark and murderous and hating DC because their characters were bright and inspirational. And now that he's actually kind of in charge of DC he's just turning the characters into the edgy Marvel shit he loved in his youth.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
This is made by the same creative team as BvS with no lead time in order to actually understand and fix the problems the DCU has with Justice League. So yeah the movie's going to suck. It's not even a problem with "it's too dark" which is such a trite criticism that makes no sense. Snyder and his crew literally don't get the characters they're supposed to be adapting.
Basically. Fans will fight to the death over these movies, while the powers that be are too busy counting their coins.
All I know is that I walked out of BvS feeling worn down, dreary, and mentally exhausted, and NOT in a good way. I can't identify for sure how much of that is the look of the film or the script or the oppressive story beats or whatnot but whatever type of emotional connection Snyder seems to be trying to create with his audience is just completely off the mark. I have no hope that JL won't be just more of the same.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
No thanks. I don't need or want more rainbow and lollipops superhero movies that just use the same formula over and over again.
This has been posted before many times but i guess it would help if it gets posted again:
LINK
The "dark" cinematography of Zack Snyder's movies is not the problem. Its just an over-used stylistic choice but it could be used effectively. It gave Arrival that hard sci-fi edge.
In his movies, the movies' plot, the character motivation, the location are all just an excuse to get to the next "cool" moment. As implied on the link above, Zack still directs like a pretentious film student even after all these years.
LINK
The "dark" cinematography of Zack Snyder's movies is not the problem. Its just an over-used stylistic choice but it could be used effectively. It gave Arrival that hard sci-fi edge.
In his movies, the movies' plot, the character motivation, the location are all just an excuse to get to the next "cool" moment. As implied on the link above, Zack still directs like a pretentious film student even after all these years.
There's just something about the character designs and art direction that's offputting, a combination of too much CGI and excessive detail aka Cyborg. It's not grounded... at all, a huge strength in the first two Nolan films and the first Iron Man film, all three of which are easily some of the best movies to this day.
And unlike Logan or the MCU, the world building/cinematic universe-building sucks, and as the trailer suggests there's more action and flash than actual substance.
Zero hype whatsoever. If this movie turns out to be good it'll be due to the script writer, not anything Synder does.
And unlike Logan or the MCU, the world building/cinematic universe-building sucks, and as the trailer suggests there's more action and flash than actual substance.
Zero hype whatsoever. If this movie turns out to be good it'll be due to the script writer, not anything Synder does.
KonradLaw
Member
Dark Knight is likely a better movie that anything Marvel has done and it's been years since Marvel has done anything that would get as much praise as Logan did.
So the idea that superhero movies must be light and happy is simply untrue. It's all about quality. If you make a good dark movie people will love it, just like they will hate crappy movie full of humor and lightness.
And most of all the genre is diverse enough that trying to force one style into every single movie is a very bad idea.
Cheerful standalone Batman full of jokes would be a diseaster, same as Flash that's dark and brooding.
Considering how much of a dissapoitment X-Men: Apocalypse was it's pretty funny that FOX still seems to be towering over both Marvel and DC these days, precisely because they had enough sense to make Deadpool a comedy and Logan a dark drama
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
This comparison is stupid because Marvel's been making good movies since the MCU's inception. The last good superhero movie to come out of WB was in 2008 when the MCU itself was just getting started. And Fox making better superhero movies? Yeah Fant4stic sure does tower above Marvel. And Deadpool is a comedy so yeah, the movie would be a comedy, and it still wasn't even better than Civil War or even Doctor Strange.
I would say that for a medium with unlimited potential, the reliance to tell the same stories over and over is depressing.
KonradLaw
Member
I wonder if Justice League Dark will still be at New Line instead of WB proper. I think the idea to set up parrel Vertigo universe at New Line was a great one. Especially since those properties don't lend themselves too 200 mln dollars extravaganzas.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
To be fair, Nolan showed dark and good aren't mutually exclusive. The problem is WB et al. think dark automatically equals good.
KonradLaw
Member
Doctor Strange was mediocre as hell.
And so what if Dark Knight was in 2008? Are you saying that if it premiered today it would be recieved badly? Was Logan trashed because it wasn't happy cheerful MCU movie?
Maybe, just maybe the problem with DCEU isn't that it's dark, but that those are weak movies with weak scripts and direction? I mean..I don't think anyone will deny Suicide Squad is by far the worst movie outr of that universe and that's the one that had the lighest tone and most humor by far.
I don't think you know how films work if you think Snyder has no control over the script/story.
MarkMclovin
Member
It's hardly an opinion when it's like a scratched record of 100's of others, who haven't seen the movie yet either.
Try this ; Don't go into any threads regarding an up coming movie you are interested in watching. Don't read any comments on trailers.
You know what'll happen when you eventually go in to see that movie? You might just enjoy it.
Works great for me.
Can Crusher
Banned
If you think JL looks like a movie and Homecoming like a tv show, your opinion on film aesthetic is downright worthless.
Say... Sicario will be 10 times the movie JL is, will look 10 times better, will actually have the darker scenes and yet... it will have 10 times more sunlight and color.
Defending this shit is like defending thos 90s comics where every character was a body builder on steroids, and everybody was edgy as fuck.
It reeks of teenage angst sensabilities. Just watch Logan and wake up.
Say... Sicario will be 10 times the movie JL is, will look 10 times better, will actually have the darker scenes and yet... it will have 10 times more sunlight and color.
Defending this shit is like defending thos 90s comics where every character was a body builder on steroids, and everybody was edgy as fuck.
It reeks of teenage angst sensabilities. Just watch Logan and wake up.
Double Bingo.
I look at Snyder as that "I don't know what I'm doing" dog meme.
I've got zero faith in JL besides some cool looking visuals. Not being swindled by Zack a third time after MoS and BvS.
MetalliCabombination
Member
Why is the media so pre disposed to hating on DC jfc.
At least let the movie come out before you predictably start bitching about the lack of enough smartass jokes and sunshine
At least let the movie come out before you predictably start bitching about the lack of enough smartass jokes and sunshine
"The media" generally articulate pretty damn well why they dislike a movie, though of course, it doesn't speak in a single voice. 27% of them even enjoyed Batman v Superman.
They are of course not infallible, and it's perfectly fine to disagree with some or all of the criticism leveled at a particular movie, a director or a shared universe, a lot of people did it in this very thread.
But it's way more productive to address actual arguments people make rather than speak is such broad generalities.
It's funny that TDK and Batman Begins actually each have more humorous moments than Man of Steel and BvS put together. The extremely serious/dire tone of Snyder's movies is a bit odd to be honest. You need balance, even if your movie is supposed to be all serious and grounded.
shinra-bansho
Member
Glass Rebel
Member
Even Logan, of all movies, had more humorous moments.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Oh man, I wish I could fast forward time and get to the Rottentomatoes Bonanza again. It's gonna be sooo good.
MetalliCabombination
Member
The same media has shown time and again how easily theyre influenced by whats trendy. Take the recent dogpiling on iron fist for example.
Nobody knows if thisll be a mess or not, but some have clearly made up their minds regardless.
Watchmen and 300 were equally 'edgy' and bereft of sunlight and jokes, and they ended up decent movies.
Just because marvel does it and succeeds at it doesn't mean everyone has to the same.
Hell ill even say its getting stale in marvel movies. But thats a discussion for another time.
I mean does anyone think this site is gonna give JL a good score anymore if they found it necessary to write lengthy criticisms against just a trailer?
My favorite part of "DCEU sucks" threads is how everyone agrees it sucks but no one agrees on the reason but everyone agrees with every reason but everybody knows definitively why it sucks even though 30 different reasons are definitively given by 30 different users. It's quite entertaining.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
They are bad movies because they let the obsession of being dark gloomy and gritty get in the way. They should learn good lessons from Logan on how to be dark and still entertaining.
exmachina64
Banned
Not saying anything about the quality of those films.
But, the idea that you NEED balance is IMO completely opposed to the notion of art.
You can have balance. You can can go overboard in every direction. Why should you be concerned by some guidelines on the content of your movie. Then it becomes a product.
Guess these movies need balance, for me. I mean, that's the definition drama anyway, a balance between tragedy and comedy.
Doing balance all the time is what make the marvel movies so derivative and forgettable.
Of course, assuming the opposite does not make a good movie either.
Glass Rebel
Member
Not really. The good Marvel movies know how to strike that balance. The bad ones don't. Iron Man leans more towards funny, Cap more towards serious but they're both good. Stuff like Thor doesn't manage to and is consequently pretty bad.
The thing is that humour helps humanize these characters. As I mentioned before, even Logan, which is darker and more mature than most of these CBMs released in the last decade still has some amazingly funny moments. Which ends up giving even more weight to the dramatic ones.
But of course this doesn't really fit into Snyder's image of these heroes.
And at this rate like 2 will come out
Ehhh... it wasn't the doom and gloom, but the incoherent editing and plot points strung along by even more incoherent pieces of dialogue. Maybe the doom and gloom caused the terrible editing and plot, but I've seen pretty of doom and gloom movies that are well executed. Out of the 100+ movies I saw last year, BvS sticks out as being the worst, not because it was dark but just because it was incoherent and dumb and I had to sit through an extra 30 minutes watching the directors cut....
I'm not really inclined to go see the sequel to the worst movie of 2016.
Maybe all the reasons are valid and there are just too many to think of and cover by one user in one post?
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That's the thing. The movie can be gloomy while entertaining. But they only cares about being doom and gloomy.
More_Badass
Member
Dogpiling, really?
Oh gee golly, could that really be it??
Snyder is not opposed to anything. Army of Death is both funny and dark. Still, as you point out, he went for these movies for a more mythological point of view (whereas Marvel heroes are more everybody-people-with-powers). In Snyder's movies, there are more gods-among-us heroes. Still, execution and intention are two different things.
RipperGrim
Member
This attack on the tone of DC's movies and them being "too dark" is such a red herring.
Their movies have bad writing and atrocious editing. Suicide Squad wasn't dark or bleak, neither was this trailer.
They should focus a lot more on their writing than whether Batman should toss in a joke or two.
Their movies have bad writing and atrocious editing. Suicide Squad wasn't dark or bleak, neither was this trailer.
They should focus a lot more on their writing than whether Batman should toss in a joke or two.
Shit argument, I abhor that everyone wants fun and humour and camp in everything otherwise it's an edge, grimdark mess, fuck that. I like that these films have a semblance of deeper thought, even if it stumbles in some areas. At least what it offers has weight.
Compare that to Marvel's offerings and any time that they try to be serious or portray a serious threat it's a complete waste of time, fail and a great shame. Nothing in Marvel's universe has any gravitas towards it, not even the Stark vs Cap scenario - nothing feels real, and any threat or menace or villain is shrugged of a second after it's introduced with a one liner for cheap laughs. Everyone feels safe, no death portrayals means that all the threats, such as big floating cities, are not real threats, as we the audience are not shown anything that in such a situation would be dark about it.
For all its faults, the DC universe is better at this, their threats are very more real and have significant more weight than anything posed by Marvel. I like that they try to bring some deeper meaning, and couldn't care less for the argument that people don't want 'edge', 'deepness' or 'thought'. I think the conflicts and world building were great carried over from MoS into BvS. Yeah there was a lot that could be improved, but I'm tired of the one liners, campness and complete lack of all seriousness is the Marvel universe.
I think it's more enigmatic of audiences whom are opposed to darker portrayals. Conversely I find the camp portrays of DC characters to be awful also, I think those character portray better outside of being the 60's Batman.
Compare that to Marvel's offerings and any time that they try to be serious or portray a serious threat it's a complete waste of time, fail and a great shame. Nothing in Marvel's universe has any gravitas towards it, not even the Stark vs Cap scenario - nothing feels real, and any threat or menace or villain is shrugged of a second after it's introduced with a one liner for cheap laughs. Everyone feels safe, no death portrayals means that all the threats, such as big floating cities, are not real threats, as we the audience are not shown anything that in such a situation would be dark about it.
For all its faults, the DC universe is better at this, their threats are very more real and have significant more weight than anything posed by Marvel. I like that they try to bring some deeper meaning, and couldn't care less for the argument that people don't want 'edge', 'deepness' or 'thought'. I think the conflicts and world building were great carried over from MoS into BvS. Yeah there was a lot that could be improved, but I'm tired of the one liners, campness and complete lack of all seriousness is the Marvel universe.
I think it's more enigmatic of audiences whom are opposed to darker portrayals. Conversely I find the camp portrays of DC characters to be awful also, I think those character portray better outside of being the 60's Batman.
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