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[ShockingAlberto]

DOA @ $350? How can you say that without knowing what it is?
It's all about value, people.

Nah. $350 is too much.

 

[Father_Brain]

This type of hyperbole kills me.

It's DOA at $250 too when it ships at the level of a 360, right?

I really don't think it's hyperbole, given that it's targeting a very different audience from Sony and MS. We'll see.

 

[maxcriden]

The chances of it are slim to none, but imagine if they had a real metroid game at the reveal. Not some federation force spin off crap, but either metroid prime 4, or a Fusion sequel.

On the contrary, I think at least a CG reveal (if it's a 3D iteration) is highly likely if they want to grab western gamers' attention. Of course, I thought they'd announce a new mainline Metroid three E3s ago.

 

[Lilo_D]

I'm fine with 350, cause I know I will use it a lot

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Pikmin 3DS isn't Pikmin 4 or they would've called it...Pikmin 4.

The leap in logic in thinking that we're going to get two Pikmin games close to each other is incredible.

 

[maxcriden]

to me it's release date and price

on all other fronts, I trust nintendo, even the WiiU is a nice piece of hardware even if unappealing.

I want too know what is cheaper and sooner to play Zelda., WiiU vs NX

As we saw with Wii and GCN, at worst Wii U Zelda will come after NX. But for goodwill purposes they'll probably be simultaneous.

"There's a new Pikmin game coming 2017 on the 3DS"
"OMG Pikmin 4 NX comfirmed."

To be fair that's not *exactly* the line of thinking... 😂

 

[jmizzal]

Nintendo should reveal it first without the price and see public reaction and internet talk to see what people feel a good price would be.

Then in Jan, announce the price

But I still feel it was be at least 2 SKU's

 

[EVH]

350 is too much. The rumors actually talked about it being cheap because of the good deal with nvidia.

Also, i really doubt a price announcement until february when they kinda know how the response from the public is going to be.

 

[Toxi]

The 3DS had a launch price of $250 and struggled until a significant price cut.

Remember, the NX is Nintendo's handheld successor, not just their home console successor.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I would happily pay up to 450 quid, but I am weird.

 

[maxcriden]

The 3DS had a launch price of $250 and struggled until a significant price cut.

Remember, the NX is Nintendo's handheld successor, not just their home console successor.

Right, and we can already see from fan reaction online at least that to a degree its going to be an uphill battle getting gamers to think of it as anything but primarily a HH.

 

[Dark Cloud]

The leap in logic in thinking that we're going to get two Pikmin games close to each other is incredible.

I never said they would be close. For all we know Pikmin 4 may not release until 2018.

And this is the same Nintendo that released NSMB2 for 3DS and then a few months later releases
NSMBU.

 

[Serenitynow]

I really don't think it's hyperbole, given that it's targeting a very different audience from Sony and MS. We'll see.

Pretend there are only two scenarios:
$300: Moderately more powerful but moderately more expensive
$250: Moderately less powerful but moderately more inexpensive

There are people who expect around XBONE in power at $250 and when it's not that they are going to cry DOA

Edit: Just so I don't lose the original point, the poster I was replying to said DOA at $300. However I believe $300 would be fair for what most of us are expecting. I agree $350 is pushing it unless it's a bundle.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Pikmin 3DS isn't Pikmin 4 or they would've called it...Pikmin 4.

Pikmin 3DS isn't a final name. Let's also stop pretending like Nintendo follows some law on numbering their games. 1 out of every 50 sequels has a number.

 

[Toxi]

"There's a new Pikmin game coming 2017 on the 3DS"
"OMG Pikmin 4 NX comfirmed."

Nintendo confirmed Pikmin 4 was in development. I guess the 3DS game could be Pikmin 4.

 

[Kouriozan]

Nah. $350 is too much.

Exactly, I'm very scared.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I never said they would be close. For all we know Pikmin 4 may not release until 2018.

And this is the same Nintendo that released NSMB2 for 3DS and then a few months later releases
NSMBU.

If a Pikmin game was that far away Miyamoto wouldn't have said it was "close to completion."
I'm almost kind of amazed at how hard you're failing at connecting the dots.

 

[Cheesehead302]

This refreshing Gaf thing is starting to rob me of playing Overwatch and Bayonetta.

 

[Cerium]

 

[Dark Cloud]

If a Pikmin game was that far away Miyamoto wouldn't have said it was "close to completion."

Meh. He said it fell down the list of priorities a few months ago.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

What is the most anticipated thing you want to see in the reveal:

1. Launch Games
2. 1st and 3rd Parties Support
3. Hardware Specs
4. Console Name
5. Hybrid Rumor
6. Price & Versions
7. Other

Price will make or break the NX with mass market consumers.

If they screw up the pricing then the other stuff won't matter.

Knowing Nintendo they'll try and gouge the consumer and over estimate how much they're willing to pay for weaker hardware.

I don't have a good feeling about this.

 

[Toxi]

Right, and we can already see from fan reaction online at least that to a degree its going to be an uphill battle getting gamers to think of it as anything but primarily a HH.

There's a much larger audience for Nintendo handhelds than Nintendo home consoles.

 

[Oregano]

There's a much larger audience for Nintendo handhelds than Nintendo home consoles.

Yeah I think that's more of a boon than a problem.

On the pricing discussion I would personally be willing to pay the equivalent of $350 but it would be a tremendous barrier to the platforms success.

 

[_Ryo_]

D.O.A. if true.

To be fair, it's doomed to fail, D.O.A if a lot of the rumors are true.

If NX is a home console that you play mobile titles on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If NX is a console and a handheld that you need a power brick to play on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If it targets casuals and is $300+ it's doomed to fail.

If it's a hybrid that doesn't offer a substaintial home experience, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld with detachable parts that is incredibly uncomfortable or easy for parts to get lost, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld the same size as the gamepad, it's likely doomed to fail.

 

[Toxi]

Yeah I think that's more of a boon than a problem.

On the pricing discussion I would personally be willing to pay the equivalent of $350 but it would be a tremendous barrier to the platforms success.

It's a problem if you price above that market.

 

[maxcriden]

What I see based on all the rumors (including those of LPVG) is a handheld device that can be disassembled to turn into a home console device. You put the screen portion into the dock, and you're left with two motion controller portions in either hand. It has essentially become a Wii when in docked mode. When undocked it is a standard touch screen handheld.

I'm curious what makes you think the two controllers are two halves ostensibly of one controller when the EG leak said otherwise. Did the LPVG leak say so?

I never said or meant to imply that...

The LPVG article suggested that the two detachable controllers will have motion capabilities, so I'm theorizing that, when the controllers are detached to allow the screen portion to dock, each controller will become essentially a Wii motion + controller, but each will likely also have an analog stick/circle pad. You'd hold them in your hands separately, not combine them into one controller.

Sorry to have been unclear. And, maybe I misunderstood you. I can assure you wasn't intending to misportray your words! When I said "two halves ostensibly of one controller" what I meant was that if you have one controller portion in one hand and one in the other, in that sense you are using them in combination, as one whole (but not attached) controller. Hope that makes more sense. So what you're clarifying above is essentially what I was asking about. In that sense, what I meant was this: you're saying one person will hold both controllers, one in each hand. What I'm curious about is whether LPVG or any other leaker indicated whether one person holds both controllers. The reason im curious about this is that the EG leak clarified via Twitter after noted that each player will hold only one controller. That is to say, the two detachable controllers will not be used by one person at the same time (one in each hand) but rather will be used one per player, controlling presumably as an individual Wiimote or sideways gamepad.

If that is the (or a) primary intended mechanism of the detachables controllers, (1) this will probably be a small and basic individual controller, so I expect a separate basic controller will also be available for less casual players, but potentially not bundled in, (2) it makes me wonder if they can also be used in conjunction by one player as you posit so they can avoid people feeling like they have to separately purchase another controller, (3) as you and Derek discuss below it would be quite difficult to make the controller combinable into one gamepad, so I think a combination of (1) and (2) is most likely, and (4) I'm curious whether this idea came from in the first place, like whether it was rumored or if you think EG got this part wrong since I think your prior supposition about it is different than theirs.

Forgive the rambling stream of consciousness.

This is possible, but it would be no small task to make the two controller pieces ergonomic both as individual handheld devices and as a combined controller piece.

I mean, try picking up a pro controller with one hand and only fiddling with one side of it. The lack of stability provided by a two-handed grip means that quick button presses and confident use of the stick and triggers become very difficult, turning the whole thing into an awkward affair. Just chopping the controller in half doesn't change the fact that the ergonomics are now all wrong and the button placement is less ideal for a one-handed grip.

So yeah, it's not IMPOSSIBLE, but it's going to take some really smart design work to come up with a pair of motion controllers whose design and inputs do not compromise the comfort of the handheld format, and vice-versa.

EDIT: This only becomes more complex if you take into account that there may be basically three different uses for the controllers... attached to the handheld, held detached like you mention, and held sideways by different people as separate controllers. The actual design and execution of the detachable controllers concept is the biggest mystery that needs answering, if you ask me, far more than any questions about power or screen size.



If you feel like laughing, check out his whole channel. He's one of the main proponents that the NX is secretly a beefed-up AMD-powered PS4-alike.

Agree completely with your last statement especially.

I agree that it will be difficult to pull off, but I think it's the avenue Nintendo is attempting to explore. I think a good base would be the shape of the nunchuk, but with an added flange for holding the d-pad/abxy face buttons. I have no idea how well that would work in practice, but it truly sounds like it could be the best control scheme ever invented if they nail the ergonomics. Think about it- you get the split controls, the full face/shoulder/trigger functionality and on top of that you have Wii motion+ controls when detached, touch screen controls when attached.

I also agree that it would be nearly impossible to pull that off if you want to use the detachable controllers "NES-style" but I think that's an acceptable sacrifice. For multiplayer, each user can still use either of the detachable controllers for simple games at the very least. Think about Wii Bowling or Wii Tennis.

Again, this is all my guesswork based on the rumors, and it's almost certainly wrong in some areas. But it's definitely an interesting topic to speculate upon.

 

[Scrawnton]

It's a problem if you price above that market.

What marker though? We don't even know what it is.

 

[Plinko]

To be fair, it's doomed to fail, D.O.A if a lot of the rumors are true.

If NX is a home console that you play mobile titles on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If NX is a console and a handheld that you need a power brick to play on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If it targets casuals and is $300+ it's doomed to fail.

If it's a hybrid that doesn't offer a substaintial home experience, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld with detachable parts that is incredibly uncomfortable or easy for parts to get lost, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld the same size as the gamepad, it's likely doomed to fail.

My favorite part of this is the implication that the only thing that will work for Nintendo is a powerful console, which I believe to be completely false. Nintendo cannot compete in that space at this point.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

$350 is very bad.

$300 is good.

$250 is very good.

 

[maxcriden]

There's a much larger audience for Nintendo handhelds than Nintendo home consoles.

I'm agreeing with you. I couldn't tell if your reply meant you thought I was disagreeing. What we each wrote is all the more reason to price it low, given the previous buying habits if those consumers for HHs.

 

[Toxi]

What marker though? We don't even know what it is.

We don't. But the 3DS had to drop from 250 to 160 before it caught on. So the question is if the handheld audience will see the massive jump in graphics as worth the high price.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I'm fine with 350, cause I know I will use it a lot

I mean, a lot of Nintendo diehards would probably pay $500 for the thing, but realistically, Nintendo hardware — especially if it's primarily a handheld — at $350 is essentially DOA.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

What is the most anticipated thing you want to see in the reveal:

1. Launch Games
2. 1st and 3rd Parties Support
3. Hardware Specs
4. Console Name
5. Hybrid Rumor
6. Price & Versions
7. Other

Games and backwards compatibility, if I have to buy Super Mario Bros one more fucking time Im out.

 

[BitStyle]

Highest acceptable price for it is $300. Ideally they should shoot for $250.

Over $300 and it likely flounder.

 

[Toxi]

I'm agreeing with you. I couldn't tell if your reply meant you thought I was disagreeing. What we each wrote is all the more reason to price it low, given the previous buying habits if those consumers for HHs.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Plinko]

Highest acceptable price for it is $300. Ideally they should shoot for $250.

Over $300 and it likely flounder.

I'm guessing it retails for anywhere from $179-$199. I think they really want the impulse buy pricepoint.

 

[Cerium]

All this argument over the pricing of an imaginary console that will never be revealed.

 

[Scrawnton]

We don't. But the 3DS had to drop from 250 to 160 before it caught on. So the question is if the handheld audience will see the massive jump in graphics as worth the high price.

The 3DS also launched with no games.

 

[maxcriden]

Thanks for the clarification.

My pleasure!

We don't. But the 3DS had to drop from 250 to 160 before it caught on. So the question is if the handheld audience will see the massive jump in graphics as worth the high price.

Agreed! And we've not once seen evidence IIRC that (especially Western) consumers will flock to a HH at a high price.

 

[Shiggy]

Nintendo doesn't exist in equilibrium. Their competitors have systems sell for 200-250€, and if it's a system with less power and fewer games than competitors, Nintendo will have a hard time when they are pricing themselves put of the market again.

 

[CharminUltra]

Schrödinger's NX

 

[Gormless Noodle]

To be fair, it's doomed to fail, D.O.A if a lot of the rumors are true.

If NX is a home console that you play mobile titles on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If NX is a console and a handheld that you need a power brick to play on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If it targets casuals and is $300+ it's doomed to fail.

If it's a hybrid that doesn't offer a substaintial home experience, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld with detachable parts that is incredibly uncomfortable or easy for parts to get lost, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld the same size as the gamepad, it's likely doomed to fail.

There's one way it wouldn't be doomed to fail in some of these scenarios though: Be a phone.

If it's also a phone: Charge out the ass for it, people will buy it, casuals and core alike. Detachable controllers make sense. A lower end experience without the dock would suddenly be acceptable.

 

[FlaygletheBagel]

To be fair, it's doomed to fail, D.O.A if a lot of the rumors are true.

If NX is a home console that you play mobile titles on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If NX is a console and a handheld that you need a power brick to play on the go, it's doomed to fail.

If it targets casuals and is $300+ it's doomed to fail.

If it's a hybrid that doesn't offer a substaintial home experience, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld with detachable parts that is incredibly uncomfortable or easy for parts to get lost, it's doomed to fail.

If it's a handheld the same size as the gamepad, it's likely doomed to fail.

Not sure what rumors you've been getting into. Most of this stuff is not supported by any of the credible leaks we've been getting, save for the screen size being similar to the Gamepad's. And the ergonomics of the detachable controllers we won't know about until we see it.

 

[Shiggy]

There's one way it wouldn't be doomed to fail in some of these scenarios though: Be a phone.

If it's also a phone: Charge out the ass for it, people will buy it, casuals and core alike. Detachable controllers make sense. A lower end experience without the dock would be suddenly be acceptable.

People won't buy a Nintendo phone, they want to have some competent OS. There's a reason why Microsoft failed, and I doubt that Nintendo would fare much better.

 

[Kissenkopf]

Everybody is shitting now on Nintendo and in 8 hours everybody is hyping Nintendo again. It is really always the same circle of hype and doom...

Good night guys, see you tomorrow in the Nintendo Direct thread!

 

[EhoaVash]

i'm too lazy to finish this
wish i had photoshop lolol

 

[Plinko]

There's one way it wouldn't be doomed to fail in some of these scenarios though: Be a phone.

If it's also a phone: Charge out the ass for it, people will buy it, casuals and core alike. Detachable controllers make sense. A lower end experience without the dock would suddenly be acceptable.

LOL no. That would be a colossal disaster.

 

[gogojira]

LOL no. That would be a colossal disaster.

No shit. A disaster that only a few crazy people would buy before dropping it after a few months. Nintendo needs to do Nintendo, which means making great games.

 

[_Ryo_]

My favorite part of this is the implication that the only thing that will work for Nintendo is a powerful console, which I believe to be completely false. Nintendo cannot compete in that space at this point.

No. It doesn't have to be a beast of a console to sell, but it has to be either more powerful or cheaper than Wii U at release, I think.

There's one way it wouldn't be doomed to fail in some of these scenarios though: Be a phone.

If it's also a phone: Charge out the ass for it, people will buy it, casuals and core alike. Detachable controllers make sense. A lower end experience without the dock would suddenly be acceptable.

I don't think being a phone will help it sell unless it runs Android games or it is very very easy to port games from other phones. Being a phone doesn't really do anything in itself.

Not sure what rumors you've been getting into. Most of this stuff is not supported by any of the credible leaks we've been getting, save for the screen size being similar to the Gamepad's. And the ergonomics of the detachable controllers we won't know about until we see it.

Have no idea the credibility of these rumors, nor am I saying they're real or likely. They're just a few things I've read over the past year that IF they just happen to end up being true, I think it makes Nintendo's chance of capturing their target audience unlikely.

 

[Plinko]

No. It doesn't have to be a beast of a console to sell, but it has to be either more powerful or cheaper than Wii U at release, I think.

It's going to be both, I believe.