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[captive]

Isn't that chart misleading since Olympus has a crop factor of 2? 12mm on Olympus is not the same as 12mm on APS-C.

its all relative. Yes 12mm on 4/3rds has a field of view of 24mm on a full frame camera. But for talking about how focal lengths between short versus long i find it helpful.
Its the same thing on any other format, in the same spot 7mm is going to show you a lot wider image than 200mm.

I'm not talking about telephotos, I'm talking about prime vs. zoom. There are prime telephoto lenses (I'm sure you know that, but I'm just trying to clarify). I just think it's a good way to learn, one less variable to be wondering about.

My mistake i should have been more clear, zooms and telephoto zooms draw the ire of some people who think primes are the way to go and using zooms and telephoto zooms is lazy.

 

[mrkgoo]

I'm not talking about telephotos, I'm talking about prime vs. zoom. There are prime telephoto lenses (I'm sure you know that, but I'm just trying to clarify). I just think it's a good way to learn, one less variable to be wondering about.

I'm just going by how I learned photography. I used an old Canon film camera w/ 2 prime lenses for years until I moved onto a Canon Digital Rebel XT.

This is assuming the dude up above is just starting photography (which I think is what he was saying).

I agree in principle. A prime lens is a great tool because it really makes you think about composition an what YOU can do about changing it (as opposed to just twistig the zoom ring).

But as captive has explained, some people say zooms are for those who are lazy to foot zoom, but there's more to it than that.

 

[zhenming]

zooms are also for people who dont want to foot zoom off a cliff :lol :lol :lol

 

[captive]

zooms are also for people who dont want to foot zoom off a cliff :lol :lol :lol

:lol
thats another way of looking at it.

 

[ChryZ]

How much slower than a DSLR is the AF? thats the one thing making me pause. I have a panasonic TZ7 as my 'always on my' camera, but the AF is really crappy (well, no worse than any other compact). contrast AF has me worried, but I've read that Panasonic's implementation in the GF1 is really good.

its implemented very well. extremely fast. not a noticeable diff in real life usage, will only be slower if u actually measure it vs a new DSLR. know that due to the small chip size, actual depth of field will not be as shallow as DSLR. i'm loving mine, very good for street photos, i posted pics a few pages back.

I'm not trying to arguing or anything, but the discussion reminded me of the recent firmware updates of body and lens. I've noticed, that the AF got more reliable after the update and it sort of leads to faster results.

 

[hEist]

finally got the domke f2!

<3 so far

thanks gaf :]

 

[zhenming]

finally got the domke f2!

<3 so far

thanks gaf :]

good pick up! enjoy the simple bag.

 

[Cathcart]

Damn, I shoulda bought a Canon.

 

[srst]

Pictures from my new Canon S90

These shots aren't spectacular. I'm still experimenting with the settings. I think I can turn out better pictures than these.

I'll post up more pictures from time to time.

 

[zhenming]

looks like the high iso of the S90 is good! did you shoot raw?

 

[Alucrid]

The Canon XT I was going after for $300 wasn't available. Now I'm back on the market looking for a DLSR around the 300-400 dollar price range. Anyone know of any sales or discounts or anything?

 

[srst]

looks like the high iso of the S90 is good! did you shoot raw?

I'm using JPGs for now. Photoshop can't open the RAW (CR2 format) files so I'll have to use Canon's bundled software when I get time to install it.

 

[zhenming]

I'm using JPGs for now. Photoshop can't open the RAW (CR2 format) files so I'll have to use Canon's bundled software when I get time to install it.

using canons software and converting them to jpgs then messing with them on photoshop is fine. my workflow is usually...

nikon software to process raws > photoshop to make final edits

or when im lazy...

lightroom raw processing with nikon presets to jpgs

 

[BlueTsunami]

I'm using JPGs for now. Photoshop can't open the RAW (CR2 format) files so I'll have to use Canon's bundled software when I get time to install it.

My workflow actually goes from Canon DPP (Raw Processor) to Photoshop (CS3). ALT + P (in DPP) = Automatically Exports RAW image to Photoshop as (12 or 14bit file) in 16bit workspace.

I also love how the S90 looks. Just a no frills photographic tool

 

[Great King Bowser]

Trying to sell my backup DSLR body to a friend (my old Canon 350D) so I can get a G11 to use as a second camera instead. Someone stop me.

 

[GashPrex]

I got a canon xti with a 18-55 ef and a 75-300mm ef for $265 off of ebay.

It had some broken pins in the CF reader inside the camera but I was able to fix that easily with a couple of needles from a sowing kit. Works perfectly now - hopefully taking a digital photography course this winter.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Trying to sell my backup DSLR body to a friend (my old Canon 350D) so I can get a G11 to use as a second camera instead. Someone stop me.

Unless you're a professional, dropping a second DSLR body for a smaller camera would probably be for the best (its what I would do). I don't find the need for redundancy all too important when its a hobby.

I got a canon xti with a 18-55 ef and a 75-300mm ef for $265 off of ebay.

It had some broken pins in the CF reader inside the camera but I was able to fix that easily with a couple of needles from a sowing kit. Works perfectly now - hopefully taking a digital photography course this winter.

Wow, great catch. I've also read about people bending the pins and thinking they're SOL.

 

[mrkgoo]

My workflow actually goes from Canon DPP (Raw Processor) to Photoshop (CS3). ALT + P (in DPP) = Automatically Exports RAW image to Photoshop as (12 or 14bit file) in 16bit workspace.

I also love how the S90 looks. Just a no frills photographic tool

I love the style of the S90. Nice magnesium body too.

GKB: Get an s90 instead - I think you'll use it more than a G11. The s90 is much more portable.

 

[Great King Bowser]

I've really got my heart set on a G series though. Also I'd like to be able to use my hotshoe flashes. Besides, anything's going to be more portable than lugging an SLR around. As long as a G11 can fit in a regular rucksack I'll be happy.

 

[nib95]

I'd just like to say, after owning the Canon 5D MkII for a few months now, and taking a good few thousand shots in conjunction with mainly a 24-70 2.8L lens and a 430EX II flash, I am utterly stunned by this gear. Initially I was worried about focus issues, but to tell the truth, I've barely had any, even using outer focus points.

The camera is sharper than I had ever anticipated, especially for something that is 23mp. The detail, clarity, colour dimensionality and just overall IQ (especially in low light) the DSLR offers is imo astonishing. I've used the 400D, 500D, 50D and other P&S's such as the G10 etc before. But none of them quite prepared me for my first full frame.

It's the resolution that really stuns. And the fact that even at such high resolutions images are still tack sharp. I'd imagine largely thanks to the lens I am using as well, which has also been an absolute joy to work with. A perfect all around everyday lens for an absolutely phenomenal camera. For mainly portrait and indoor event photography, the 5D MkII really is a sublime piece of kit to work with. And I haven't even begun to unravel the magic of the video recording capabilities yet. Though a friend did use it at a recent Monsoon fashion shoot, and the results were absolutely impressive.

 

[Rentahamster]

Yep 5DmkII is a beast. Quick question: it sounds like you think higher megapixeld would lead to less sharp images? Am I reading that right?

 

[nib95]

Yep 5DmkII is a beast. Quick question: it sounds like you think higher megapixeld would lead to less sharp images? Am I reading that right?

I assumed that yes. Or at least more grain/noise. That's the gist I get when browsing Photog forums. That the higher the MP, the harder it is to control high ISO noise. I just assumed it was the same for IQ overall, but the 5D MkII is insanely sharp. As in, can pick out every individual hair in a random portrait shot sort of sharp.

 

[zhenming]

Yep 5DmkII is a beast. Quick question: it sounds like you think higher megapixeld would lead to less sharp images? Am I reading that right?

I would think the opposite, because the resolution on a 24mp cam could be blown up huge and the image would not be affected on a 12mp cam it would show noise...

 

[nib95]

I would think the opposite, because the resolution on a 24mp cam could be blown up huge and the image would not be affected on a 12mp cam it would show noise...

The less MP the less of a work out the sensor is getting. Which is why when trying to get low noise high ISO performance often camera manufacturers drop the MP count (i.e the new D3S and the Canon G11).

 

[zhenming]

The less MP the less of a work out the sensor is getting. Which is why when trying to get low noise high ISO performance often camera manufacturers drop the MP count (i.e the new D3S and the Canon G11).

its a give or take though you cant have great high ISO and high mp at the same time... at least for now... which is why I went d700 lower mp for better high iso performance...

 

[BlueTsunami]

Anyone own any Leica lenses in here? I'm hugely lusting over some Leica-R mount lenses (and aren't that expensive second hand). Once I acquires enough cash, the first lens I buy will probably be a Leica-R Mount lens (for my Rebel XT). Either the 90/2 Summicron, 60/2.8 Elmarit or 28/2.8 Elmarit (the wider one looking the most appealing at the moment).

 

[mrkgoo]

its a give or take though you cant have great high ISO and high mp at the same time... at least for now... which is why I went d700 lower mp for better high iso performance...

I thought so too. But then I got my 7D, and I'm kind of backpedaling on the notion that higher MP = higher noise. I think at least in Canon's implementation, they've breached some threshold that allows pictures to have lower noise at normal viewing resolution BECAUSE the resolution is so high. That is, sure the per pixel noise is probably about the same as a lower MP camera (improved due to NR and better designed microlenses on the pixels), but when viewed at the same size, the noise lessens. It's like there is noise, but since the pixels are smaller, the noise is less noisy when averaging.

I routinely shoot at iso800 and 1600 on my 7D now.

 

[Rentahamster]

I assumed that yes. Or at least more grain/noise. That's the gist I get when browsing Photog forums. That the higher the MP, the harder it is to control high ISO noise. I just assumed it was the same for IQ overall, but the 5D MkII is insanely sharp. As in, can pick out every individual hair in a random portrait shot sort of sharp.

It's different for full frame cameras since the sensor is so huge. Signal to noise ratio is dependent on factors such as pixel density. Lots of megapixels crammed onto a tiny P&S sensor will for sure degrade quality but more megapixels (but not TOO many) on a full frame sensor will give you great image quality and sharpness assuming ideal lightin conditions to use a low ISO. Google for stuff like pixel pitch for more info.

Also search for swensor size comparisons to see just how much larger a DSLR sensor is to a p&s

 

[Aegus]

I asked this in another forum, but no one has really got back to me so I'm just asking it here. Hell I probably already asked it ages ago!

So I'm looking at getting another lens to either replace or use with my kit 18-55mm lens.

Would it be best getting a 18-200mm lens to just replace the 18-55mm or get a 55-200mm. Or even a 70-300mm.

I'm ideally looking to be taking photos of fast rally cars

Oh and I need a decent camera bag.

 

[Rentahamster]

I asked this in another forum, but no one has really got back to me so I'm just asking it here. Hell I probably already asked it ages ago!

So I'm looking at getting another lens to either replace or use with my kit 18-55mm lens.

Would it be best getting a 18-200mm lens to just replace the 18-55mm or get a 55-200mm. Or even a 70-300mm.

I'm ideally looking to be taking photos of fast rally cars

Oh and I need a decent camera bag.

I'm gonna assume you are talking about nikon since canon doesn't have a 70-300 as far as I know. I'm also gonna assume you will be kinda far away from the cars and want a good telephoto. 55-200 if you need to save money, 70-300 if you want better quality and more reach.

 

[N2_]

I asked this in another forum, but no one has really got back to me so I'm just asking it here. Hell I probably already asked it ages ago!

So I'm looking at getting another lens to either replace or use with my kit 18-55mm lens.

Would it be best getting a 18-200mm lens to just replace the 18-55mm or get a 55-200mm. Or even a 70-300mm.

I'm ideally looking to be taking photos of fast rally cars

Oh and I need a decent camera bag.

What's your budget and camera

 

[Aegus]

Camera is the Nikon D5000. Budget is whatever is needed really. I can scrounge the money from somewhere!

And yeah I expect I would be far away from the cars themselves.

Can I just ask why there is such a difference in price between the Nikon and Sigma versions of the 70-300mm?

Nikon 70-300mm

Sigma 70-300mm

 

[N2_]

Nikkor 70-300mm has better image quality and VR, which is useful for its zoom range. You get what you pay for. I would get the Nikon 70-300 if you're shooting cars. Keep your 18-55 as a walk around lens since it has better IQ than the 18-200.

 

[zhenming]

It's different for full frame cameras since the sensor is so huge. Signal to noise ratio is dependent on factors such as pixel density. Lots of megapixels crammed onto a tiny P&S sensor will for sure degrade quality but more megapixels (but not TOO many) on a full frame sensor will give you great image quality and sharpness assuming ideal lightin conditions to use a low ISO. Google for stuff like pixel pitch for more info.

Also search for swensor size comparisons to see just how much larger a DSLR sensor is to a p&s

Yea with full frame you can tell. the iso 200 on a nikon d700 is pretty noticeable while on the 5d its not really. but on the high end the nikon excels while the 5d is not too great.

 

[mrklaw]

Trying to sell my backup DSLR body to a friend (my old Canon 350D) so I can get a G11 to use as a second camera instead. Someone stop me.

You looked at a panasonic gf1? Any compact will be really slow compared to a DSLR and that looks ideal as a backup. Expensive though and only really compact with the pancake lens on

 

[zhenming]

looks like the new EP2 is a little bit better than the GF1 image quality-wise, not price-wise though

 

[Rktk]

Recently picked up this Olympus OM-2n off eBay. Only shot one roll of film with it so far and it turned out a treat. Looking to get some more OM lenses as and when they come up. And a case.

This is my pride and joy as far as cameras go, but for going out I'll take my Sony point-and-shoot, which this was taken with.

 

[captive]

looks like the new EP2 is a little bit better than the GF1 image quality-wise, not price-wise though

it just came out though, I would definitely wait as the price is going to come down.

 

[Rentahamster]

Can I just ask why there is such a difference in price between the Nikon and Sigma versions of the 70-300mm?

Nikon 70-300mm

Sigma 70-300mm

The Sigma version sucks.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

it just came out though, I would definitely wait as the price is going to come down.

I don't think the price will really come down too much because it includes the electric viewfinder now rather than the EP1 which doesn't come with one so the cost of it is included in the price.

 

[mrklaw]

looks like the new EP2 is a little bit better than the GF1 image quality-wise, not price-wise though

Does the ep2 still have the slower AF that the ep1 had? That'd be a deal breaker for me

 

[Bernbaum]

I've been shooting with my D60 for 18 months now and have a nice range of lenses, but am ready for a new body. What I'm really after is something that a) shoots better at higher ISO's - I'm not liking the noise on my D60; and b) has more focus points.

Toss up between the D90 and the D300s. Not sure if going from the D60 to the D90 is much of an upgrade. I shoot landscapes, wildlife and much recently because of the holidays- lots and lots of portraits.

 

[Rentahamster]

I've been shooting with my D60 for 18 months now and have a nice range of lenses, but am ready for a new body. What I'm really after is something that a) shoots better at higher ISO's - I'm not liking the noise on my D60; and b) has more focus points.

Toss up between the D90 and the D300s. Not sure if going from the D60 to the D90 is much of an upgrade. I shoot landscapes, wildlife and much recently because of the holidays- lots and lots of portraits.

The D90 and D300/D300s have very similar sensors. With the D300/D300s, what you are paying for is more features, better/more focus points, and a more solid body. In fact, dxo rates the D90 as having slightly better image quality than the D300s, but in the real world, they both look great.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/%28appareil1%29/196|0/%28appareil2%29/294|0/%28appareil3%29/336|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28brand2%29/Nikon/%28brand3%29/Nikon

As far as pure image quality is concerned, the next step up from a D90/D300/D300s would be a D700, followed by the D3s (just because of the ridiculously good high ISO performance), followed by the D3x (lots of megapixels plus great dynamic range).


If the extra features of the D300 justify the costs, then go for it. If not, or if you don't really need all those extra features, the D90 is fine too.

 

[captive]

Does the ep2 still have the slower AF that the ep1 had? That'd be a deal breaker for me

I hear its faster. But I haven't used it.

However these two "pros" went m4/3.
http://giannigalassi.typepad.com/
http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/

heres some users threads on the ep2. they discuss AF.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=33943282
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=33928539

 

[nitewulf]

Does the ep2 still have the slower AF that the ep1 had? That'd be a deal breaker for me

it still slow, honestly its not that different from the ep1. i was shopping for all three. the gf1 has the fastest focus, pop-up flash, and the better kit lenses. in camera jpeg is better on the ep1,2. but i usually just boost color saturation and sharpness in camera anyway, and it looks good to me.

my suggestion is for you to go handle the gf1. its the best of the bunch right now, if you must have interchangeable lenses. other than that, ppl who use the sigma dp2 swear by it.

 

[zhenming]

yes its still slow, but its not really that slow. the price will drop a little.

 

[zhenming]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_H8TOKcfjg&feature=player_embedded
:lol :lol :lol


looks like im a nikon shorty

 

[mrklaw]

it still slow, honestly its not that different from the ep1. i was shopping for all three. the gf1 has the fastest focus, pop-up flash, and the better kit lenses. in camera jpeg is better on the ep1,2. but i usually just boost color saturation and sharpness in camera anyway, and it looks good to me.

my suggestion is for you to go handle the gf1. its the best of the bunch right now, if you must have interchangeable lenses. other than that, ppl who use the sigma dp2 swear by it.

yeah, had a play with one in Heathrow airport. Wasn't too big - probably about on par with a G11 or similar. Its really compact with the 20mm pancake on, and f1.7 in a compact! (ok so more DoF than a full frame, but still way way less than a compact, so its actually usable).

but they had one with the zoom on and that just didn't look very practical. I guess thats where the compacts really win - with really compact long zooms. Eg my TZ7 has 10 or 12x optical which is really handy (but then its unresponsive..)

I also saw the GH1 next to it, and the EP1. Love the viewfinder, not sure I could get on with using the rear screen only. but the EP1 has slow focus, and the GH1 is quite a bit bigger.

I might wait for the next gen to see how things play out. If the EP3 can get decent AF on par with the Panasonic I might go with that for the EVF and better jpgs

 

[Instigator]

yeah, had a play with one in Heathrow airport. Wasn't too big - probably about on par with a G11 or similar. Its really compact with the 20mm pancake on, and f1.7 in a compact! (ok so more DoF than a full frame, but still way way less than a compact, so its actually usable).

but they had one with the zoom on and that just didn't look very practical. I guess thats where the compacts really win - with really compact long zooms. Eg my TZ7 has 10 or 12x optical which is really handy (but then its unresponsive..)

I also saw the GH1 next to it, and the EP1. Love the viewfinder, not sure I could get on with using the rear screen only. but the EP1 has slow focus, and the GH1 is quite a bit bigger.

I might wait for the next gen to see how things play out. If the EP3 can get decent AF on par with the Panasonic I might go with that for the EVF and better jpgs

I initially considered a M4/3 camera like the EP1 and the GF1, but I found the cameras too slow in continuous shooting and focusing. Useless for shooting kids/animals indoors. Not really a DSLR in miniature form (even if IQ is comparable). The real deathblow though is the lens selection: too few of them and zooms are limited to slow, consumer lenses for the foreseeable future. The 4/3 adaptor for access to better zooms is a clumsy solution. Might as well go for a 4/3 DSLR (which I ultimately did).

 

[mrklaw]

I initially considered a M4/3 camera like the EP1 and the GF1, but I found the cameras too slow in continuous shooting and focusing. Useless for shooting kids/animals indoors. Not really a DSLR in miniature form (even if IQ is comparable). The real deathblow though is the lens selection: too few of them and zooms are limited to slow, consumer lenses for the foreseeable future. The 4/3 adaptor for access to better zooms is a clumsy solution. Might as well go for a 4/3 DSLR (which I ultimately did).

well it woulnd't be my main camera, it'd be a backup to a DSLR. So it'd be replacing my Panasonic TZ7. Nice HD video, lovely zoom, but its still a compact which means terrible low light capability and rubbish AF speed