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The Official GAF Pen and Paper RPG Thread of Rolling Nothing But 20s!
- Thread starter LiveWire
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KittenMaster
Member
Mine is kitten_master.
KittenMaster said:
Well, he's going to be 24 years old at the youngest (according to ye olde SRD), and as a Wizard he has to have spent a lot of time in academic study. Consider Thalm a college graduate, with a Bachelor's degree in Evocation.
Where did you go to school (the premier college in Moncur, perhaps where Salatori himself once learned, or somewhere else)? What was your favorite class, did you pay your own way, impress someone and get a scholarship, or did your parents cover you? Are you self-educated and spent a lot of time in the library, presumably while you did some other job to make ends meet?
Are you from a pastoral little hobbit village or were your parents attracted to the big city? What did they do for a living? Why did Thalm want to become a Wizard?
Etc, etc. If you were a L1 Sorcerer the questions would be all different - "Are you aware of any unique stories regarding your bloodline or heritage? When was the first time your abilities manifested?" As a L1 Wizard, however, you've just graduated Hogwarts or somesuch.
Also, remember when doing your encumbrance stuff - first set of clothes (scholar's outfit?) weigh nothing; all containers (backpacks, waterskins, rations) weigh 1/4 as much as normal.
Edit: I haven't messed with Skype yet. I'll figure it all out when I get home tonight.
KittenMaster
Member
Alright. I'll try to think of something, but it will likely be simple, as I do not know much about the world yet.
Guys...it is a sad day today :
DnD ceator GAry Gygax has died.
http://entertainment.msn.com/news/article.aspx?news=303923>1=28112
Dungeons & Dragons Co-Creator Dies at 69
March 4, 2008, 3:39 PM EST
The Associated Press
MILWAUKEE -- Gary Gygax, who co-created the fantasy game Dungeons & Dragons and helped start the role-playing phenomenon, died Tuesday morning at his home in Lake Geneva. He was 69.
He had been suffering from health problems for several years, including an abdominal aneurysm, said his wife, Gail Gygax.
Gygax and Dave Arneson developed Dungeons & Dragons in 1974 using medieval characters and mythical creatures. The game known for its oddly shaped dice became a hit, particularly among teenage boys, and eventually was turned into video games, books and movies.
Gygax always enjoyed hearing from the game's legion of devoted fans, many of whom would stop by the family's home in Lake Geneva, about 55 miles southwest of Milwaukee, his wife said. Despite his declining health, he hosted weekly games of Dungeons & Dragons as recently as January, she said.
"It really meant a lot to him to hear from people from over the years about how he helped them become a doctor, a lawyer, a policeman, what he gave them," Gail Gygax said. "He really enjoyed that."
Dungeons & Dragons players create fictional characters and carry out their adventures with the help of complicated rules. The quintessential geek pastime, it spawned a wealth of copycat games and later inspired a whole genre of computer games that's still growing in popularity.
Born Ernest Gary Gygax, he grew up in Chicago and moved to Lake Geneva at the age of 8. Gygax's father, a Swiss immigrant who played violin in the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, read fantasy books to his only son and hooked him on the genre, Gail Gygax said.
Gygax dropped out of high school but took anthropology classes at the University of Chicago for a while, she said. He was working as an insurance underwriter in the 1960s, when he began playing war-themed board games.
But Gygax wanted to create a game that involved more fantasy. To free up time to work on that, he left the insurance business and became a shoe repairman, she said.
Gygax also was a prolific writer and wrote dozens of fantasy books, including the Greyhawk series of adventure novels.
Gary Sandelin, 32, a Manhattan attorney, said his weekly Dungeons & Dragons game will be a bit sadder on Wednesday night because of Gygax's passing. The beauty of the game is that it's never quite the same, he said.
Funeral arrangements are pending. Besides his wife, Gygax is survived by six children.
DnD ceator GAry Gygax has died.
http://entertainment.msn.com/news/article.aspx?news=303923>1=28112
Dungeons & Dragons Co-Creator Dies at 69
March 4, 2008, 3:39 PM EST
The Associated Press
MILWAUKEE -- Gary Gygax, who co-created the fantasy game Dungeons & Dragons and helped start the role-playing phenomenon, died Tuesday morning at his home in Lake Geneva. He was 69.
He had been suffering from health problems for several years, including an abdominal aneurysm, said his wife, Gail Gygax.
Gygax and Dave Arneson developed Dungeons & Dragons in 1974 using medieval characters and mythical creatures. The game known for its oddly shaped dice became a hit, particularly among teenage boys, and eventually was turned into video games, books and movies.
Gygax always enjoyed hearing from the game's legion of devoted fans, many of whom would stop by the family's home in Lake Geneva, about 55 miles southwest of Milwaukee, his wife said. Despite his declining health, he hosted weekly games of Dungeons & Dragons as recently as January, she said.
"It really meant a lot to him to hear from people from over the years about how he helped them become a doctor, a lawyer, a policeman, what he gave them," Gail Gygax said. "He really enjoyed that."
Dungeons & Dragons players create fictional characters and carry out their adventures with the help of complicated rules. The quintessential geek pastime, it spawned a wealth of copycat games and later inspired a whole genre of computer games that's still growing in popularity.
Born Ernest Gary Gygax, he grew up in Chicago and moved to Lake Geneva at the age of 8. Gygax's father, a Swiss immigrant who played violin in the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, read fantasy books to his only son and hooked him on the genre, Gail Gygax said.
Gygax dropped out of high school but took anthropology classes at the University of Chicago for a while, she said. He was working as an insurance underwriter in the 1960s, when he began playing war-themed board games.
But Gygax wanted to create a game that involved more fantasy. To free up time to work on that, he left the insurance business and became a shoe repairman, she said.
Gygax also was a prolific writer and wrote dozens of fantasy books, including the Greyhawk series of adventure novels.
Gary Sandelin, 32, a Manhattan attorney, said his weekly Dungeons & Dragons game will be a bit sadder on Wednesday night because of Gygax's passing. The beauty of the game is that it's never quite the same, he said.
Funeral arrangements are pending. Besides his wife, Gygax is survived by six children.
Man, the more I hear about 4th Ed, the more I am wowed by just how different it's going to be.
Classes:
The first Player's Handbook will not contain Bard, Barbarian, Druid, Monk, or Sorcerer. Instead of doing things in a Complete or Races of or whatever else, instead of having the core classes and then the other classes, they're going with a "these are all equally valid options, and here's your first set." So expect a 4th Ed Player's Handbook II, and expect it to be more common and widely embraced than its 3.5 incarnation (which I own and adore).
All core classes are considered to be one of four subtypes or roles.
Returning classes: Fighter, Paladin (Defenders); Rogue, Ranger (Strikers); Cleric (Leader); Wizard (Controller)
New core classes: Warlock (Controller, promoted from Complete Arcane) and Warlord (Brand new class, Leader - probably going to resemble the Marshal).
Races:
Returning: Human, Dwarf, Halfling, Elf*
Also, probably just the Half-Elf, the unloved redheaded stepchild that virtually no one has ever played. Honestly, if they would have just given them a Charisma bonus to go with the bonuses to social skills, or in lieu of it, people would have played them. Hopefully they remedy that.
Leaving: Gnome and Half-Orc are gone. * The standard Elf no longer exists as such.
New races:
Elves are now split into Elf (Wood Elf, bonuses to Dex, focus is on martial concerns like archery as well as woodsman life) and Eladrin (High Elf, bonuses to Int, focus is on sorcery and cosmopolitan life).
Dragonborn are now core, probably with a different origin, as a true Draconian race, and probably with a strength bonus now that Half-Orcs are gone.
Tieflings are now core with no level adjustment (Aasimar better be in the next book then).
For the Gnome / Half-Orc / Eberron race lovers: The psionic inclined Kalashtar are not in the MM as 4th Ed Psionics isn't out yet. The Half-Orc is being phased out entirely due to the apparent implied rape issue;
Gnome is in the MM, Orc is in the MM, Warforged, Shifter, and Changeling are in the MM. All are intended to be used if the player desires / had an old character that they want to convert.
It really is a whole new ballgame.
Edit: And we do have Gygax to thank for many hours of gaming bliss.
Classes:
The first Player's Handbook will not contain Bard, Barbarian, Druid, Monk, or Sorcerer. Instead of doing things in a Complete or Races of or whatever else, instead of having the core classes and then the other classes, they're going with a "these are all equally valid options, and here's your first set." So expect a 4th Ed Player's Handbook II, and expect it to be more common and widely embraced than its 3.5 incarnation (which I own and adore).
All core classes are considered to be one of four subtypes or roles.
Returning classes: Fighter, Paladin (Defenders); Rogue, Ranger (Strikers); Cleric (Leader); Wizard (Controller)
New core classes: Warlock (Controller, promoted from Complete Arcane) and Warlord (Brand new class, Leader - probably going to resemble the Marshal).
Races:
Returning: Human, Dwarf, Halfling, Elf*
Also, probably just the Half-Elf, the unloved redheaded stepchild that virtually no one has ever played. Honestly, if they would have just given them a Charisma bonus to go with the bonuses to social skills, or in lieu of it, people would have played them. Hopefully they remedy that.
Leaving: Gnome and Half-Orc are gone. * The standard Elf no longer exists as such.
New races:
Elves are now split into Elf (Wood Elf, bonuses to Dex, focus is on martial concerns like archery as well as woodsman life) and Eladrin (High Elf, bonuses to Int, focus is on sorcery and cosmopolitan life).
Dragonborn are now core, probably with a different origin, as a true Draconian race, and probably with a strength bonus now that Half-Orcs are gone.
Tieflings are now core with no level adjustment (Aasimar better be in the next book then).
For the Gnome / Half-Orc / Eberron race lovers: The psionic inclined Kalashtar are not in the MM as 4th Ed Psionics isn't out yet. The Half-Orc is being phased out entirely due to the apparent implied rape issue;
Gnome is in the MM, Orc is in the MM, Warforged, Shifter, and Changeling are in the MM. All are intended to be used if the player desires / had an old character that they want to convert.
It really is a whole new ballgame.
Edit: And we do have Gygax to thank for many hours of gaming bliss.
JayDubya said:
Sounds like they're taking the City of Heroes/MMO approach to classes. Why don't the just call the Wizard DPS? :lol
And since when are Clerics leaders? They should STFU and cast their Cure Mods and GTFO of the way of the real men.
And I always wondered if they were going to pull Half-Orc because of that reason.
LiveWire said:
I always felt the Half-Orc was acceptable, personally, if only because that rationale places our own sensibilities on someone else's sexual congress; in settings like Eberron, the Half-Orc represents human and orc communities living together harmoniously in places like the Shadow Marches. In the Forgotten Realms... well, yeah, orc bandits are probably raping the shit out of the countryside.
Of course, I almost never played a Half-Orc if I could get away with playing a real Orc. What's a Wisdom penalty to me if I get more strength?
Half-Orcs are for Orcs that want to be divine casters.Also, it can be kind of fun having ignoble origins, being an outcast from society, living amongst barbarian tribes because they were more accepting than your own family.
Scans of 4th Ed character sheets from the playtesting that went on last week:
I picked up the preview book. I HATE the fact half orcs are nwo gone, gnomes are now gone BARDS ..WTF ..I love playing bards you assholes...
Still will prolly get the core books though.. just make house rules hehehe
Love the dragonborn race..but I have the draconomicon so they are not to new to me ( and I love dragons..alot!!)
thiefling ..meeeeh cool, but not at the expense of the gnome.
I am glad they want to make it easier on DM's ..but why are they copieng a MMO (WOW) fighting style?? I play mmo's ..but YUK!
Oh and another thing.. they tried sohard in 3rd ed to make any race able to play any class.. and now they are steppign away from it but making certain classes better for certain races . it is allready hard to get away from the stereotypes.. this isn;t helping.
dwarf fights, elf hunts, halfling rogues, gnome tickers, human does what ever the fuk he wants etc.. sigh
Still will prolly get the core books though.. just make house rules hehehe
Love the dragonborn race..but I have the draconomicon so they are not to new to me ( and I love dragons..alot!!)
thiefling ..meeeeh cool, but not at the expense of the gnome.
I am glad they want to make it easier on DM's ..but why are they copieng a MMO (WOW) fighting style?? I play mmo's ..but YUK!
Oh and another thing.. they tried sohard in 3rd ed to make any race able to play any class.. and now they are steppign away from it but making certain classes better for certain races . it is allready hard to get away from the stereotypes.. this isn;t helping.
dwarf fights, elf hunts, halfling rogues, gnome tickers, human does what ever the fuk he wants etc.. sigh
Yeah, now every class has At-Will abilities, Encounter abilities (as in, once per) and Daily abilities. Every class has higher starting health (like in Star Wars Saga Edition) and can apparently recover health on their own (like in Star Wars Saga Edition), but doing so in combat is limited to the Second Wind ability.
Apparently the design was deliberate to make 1st level heroes be able to actually make it through the four encounters of appropriate level AND to make fighters not useless in later levels if the DM didn't push the party hard enough such that the Wizard and Cleric and Druid had to expend all their powers and still keep going.
I refuse to buy that book and patronize their development costs by paying that much for a book that is a glorified preview (something that should be given away!), but I sure did read it cover to cover at the bookstore.
Also, I love Bards, too. They're generally regarded as underpowered, but frankly, they're the best social class in the game, they have a great skill list and a lot of points, they have a good equipment proficiency list, they have a very versatile spell list, and they provide huge bonuses to the entire party, including themselves.
At the very least, if you're giving us tieflings, give us their counterpart, the aasimar.
Well, they're mostly removing stat penalties from the races, so that helps, actually.
Apparently the design was deliberate to make 1st level heroes be able to actually make it through the four encounters of appropriate level AND to make fighters not useless in later levels if the DM didn't push the party hard enough such that the Wizard and Cleric and Druid had to expend all their powers and still keep going.
rSpooky said:
I refuse to buy that book and patronize their development costs by paying that much for a book that is a glorified preview (something that should be given away!), but I sure did read it cover to cover at the bookstore.
Also, I love Bards, too. They're generally regarded as underpowered, but frankly, they're the best social class in the game, they have a great skill list and a lot of points, they have a good equipment proficiency list, they have a very versatile spell list, and they provide huge bonuses to the entire party, including themselves.
At the very least, if you're giving us tieflings, give us their counterpart, the aasimar.
Well, they're mostly removing stat penalties from the races, so that helps, actually.
agreedLiveWire said:Ugh, that 4E stuff looks like crap! Maybe I'm just a masochist but I thought AD&D 2E was best.
I'll admit that 3.5E was very fine-tuned and a nice compromise between simplification and complexity. But 4E just looks like it's too simplified.
still. like i said i will look at it..
I really never was fan of 3.5 ( although I bought tons of books) I loved all the idea's and lore.. but the ruleset was jjust gettign to complicated and contraditing.
As a DM I hated figuring out DC's and CR's I mean what is so hard about rolling under your dex to see if you made the jump/climb/awesome move ??
In 3.5 they first take that away , and then they come with ebberon which offers you these (forgot the name) special points to do somethign amazing in battle.. again easy to esteblish if you roll under you ability stat ( with ot without +/-'s)
and do not even get me started on THAC0 ... what is so hard about it ??
SIgh LOL
EDIT : maybe it is because the combat rules to me are just a means to and end.. and I do not want to let them get in the way of fun story telling, where if you want to play it "competitive" you might need clear rules. THen again DM alswys wins.. have fun fighting this collosal dragon at level 1 suckers!!!
rSpooky said:
Yea, THAC0 is like an e-peen battle. One guy in a campaign I was in a few years' back kept going on and on about his 7 THAC0. So when he eventually died after biting off more than he could chew, the party buried him and wrote "had a THAC0 of 7. didn't save him" on his tombstone. :lol
THAC0 was always so gosh darned counterintuitive, though. Sure, you could do it, but fucking hell, why? :lol
That's one thing I like about 3rd and 3.5 and its derivatives; you have an AC or Defense stat. When it gets better, it goes up. It can keep going up as you get better and stronger with a higher dex and better equipment. It does not cap out at -10.
As for difficulty classes, it's much of the same - static, objective ratings for how hard something is with plenty of circumstantial bonuses and penalties. The higher it is, the harder it is, but the higher your skill modifier is, the better you are.
Edit: Wouldn't a THAC0 of 7 be utterly pathetic? Wait, I'm remembering this wrong.
So if the opponent had an AC of 0, you would have to roll a 7 to hit him. So if the enemy had an AC of -10, the maximum, you would have to roll a 17 to hit him. Okay, that's not so bad I guess.
I must have been getting THAC0 mixed up with AC. A 7 AC would be bad. Because then someone with a THAC0 of 15 would have to roll an 8 to hit you.
That's one thing I like about 3rd and 3.5 and its derivatives; you have an AC or Defense stat. When it gets better, it goes up. It can keep going up as you get better and stronger with a higher dex and better equipment. It does not cap out at -10.
As for difficulty classes, it's much of the same - static, objective ratings for how hard something is with plenty of circumstantial bonuses and penalties. The higher it is, the harder it is, but the higher your skill modifier is, the better you are.
Edit: Wouldn't a THAC0 of 7 be utterly pathetic? Wait, I'm remembering this wrong.
So if the opponent had an AC of 0, you would have to roll a 7 to hit him. So if the enemy had an AC of -10, the maximum, you would have to roll a 17 to hit him. Okay, that's not so bad I guess.
I must have been getting THAC0 mixed up with AC. A 7 AC would be bad. Because then someone with a THAC0 of 15 would have to roll an 8 to hit you.
JayDubya said:
No, it's pretty good. -10 was the best AC in 2E. So, for someone with a THAC0 of 7 to hit -10, they'd need to roll a 17 or higher. Not easy, but not impossible either. And you're hitting 0, -1, -2, -3 (a lot of tough enemies) with 10 or less dice rolls (over 50% of the time).
nm, you got it.
I agree though, a simple AC/Defense stat works better. Just make it straight addition, not this addition by subtraction method. I preferred other things about 2E anyway.
Well true D20 in itself is not that bad.. but some people made thc-o sound like rocket sience and friggen 5th grader can do it ..
I still have all my 2nd ed books includign enc. magica series. and use them to this very day for ideas..
one of them I never got a chance to play ..it wa scalled reverse dungeon.. where the players were the monsters defending against those bastard heroes.
I still have all my 2nd ed books includign enc. magica series. and use them to this very day for ideas..
one of them I never got a chance to play ..it wa scalled reverse dungeon.. where the players were the monsters defending against those bastard heroes.
I never really got to play 2nd Ed tabletop.
My brother owned this, and all that came along with it:
I used to read them all the time.
I bought this with some lawn-mowing money:
but none of my friends were very interested in trying it.
What finally got me into tabletop gaming was this:
Followed by this:
Followed, finally, by 3.5 D&D.
2nd Ed made for some wonderful videogames; but I am very fond of 3rd Edition and sad nothing with the polish and awesomeness of BGII or P:T were made for 3rd or 3.5.
My brother owned this, and all that came along with it:
I used to read them all the time.
I bought this with some lawn-mowing money:
What finally got me into tabletop gaming was this:
Followed by this:
Followed, finally, by 3.5 D&D.
2nd Ed made for some wonderful videogames; but I am very fond of 3rd Edition and sad nothing with the polish and awesomeness of BGII or P:T were made for 3rd or 3.5.
rSpooky said:
He has them in a sense, they're still sitting at Mom & Dad's house in his old closet. A whole lot of 1st Ed AD&D stuff.
My wife's parents still have their original D&D stuff somewhere.
* * *
Woah. Check this out.
Magic Missile at Will, and it does way more damage.
1st level wizards = not crossbow snipers.
LiveWire said:
Yup. That, and now you actually have to aim the magic missile.
So with a +5 vs. Reflex (from the 20 Int, maybe?) and the Kobold has a 14 Reflex, the Wizard has to roll a 9 to hit.
OH, one more thing - saves are now static numbers the attacker has to beat. Just like Star Wars Saga Edition.
The only major difference here is that in Saga Edition, your AC WAS your Reflex Defense.
I'm thinking that AC is going to be closely related to Reflex, but I can't reverse engineer the math used to come up with all these numbers.
LiveWire said:
I'm still very much so on the fence between buying it and not.
I may stubbornly plant my feet and never buy it (thanks to limited willpower, unlikely)
I may wait until 2009, when the 4th Edition update for Eberron comes out. (rational, measured response)
Or I may buy it immediately and subscribe to Insider and play it online all the time. (hyper fanboy requiring new input gogogogog)
I'm really fucking unsure at this point. :lol But you know, the game looks fun. Look at all the cool shit a 1st level fighter can do. Or a Paladin, omg, Paladin looks great.
But now they're allowing for Blackguards to just be Evil Paladins from L1, which kind of stinks. >_> And they're kind of removing a lot of the objective morality aspects of the game, which also stinks (even if it did lead to DM moralizing sometimes).
So much is so right, and then a lot of the rest is so wrong. So I'm torn.
rSpooky said:BAH!!.. in my campaigns everyone can do cool stuff ( houserules and godpower )
Well, one of my gripes with late-game D&D (in any edition) is that class balance goes out the fucking window and hits every ledge on the way down.
Early game fighters are awesome because all of their "powers" are at-will, and all relate to feats and basic things like grapple and bull rush and whatever that anyone can do, but fighters can do very well through feats. A fighter with full hp is at full capacity, and as long as there's a cleric around to refill his hp, he's at full capacity - in the early game, this level of longevity is the fighter's biggest draw. An early game Paladin or Barbarian, by comparison, would spend their single use of smite or their rage and then be, more or less, a fighter without feats and a different skill list.
A late game fighter, however, needs the +6 Vorpal Giant's Toothpick of Hurtin' and Woundin' and Shootin' Lightnin' Out Ye Bum to compete with 9th level spell ridiculousness: i.e. the old "artifact sword." In other words, a Fighter needs an item that by RAW, he cannot logically afford nor reasonably expect in order to stay at a similar power level with his brethren. Of course, DM fiat can provide this, and most D&D based videogames follow suit more or less.
Paladins at least have Holy Avengers, which are not artifacts, are quite reasonably affordable, and grant them a measure of really schmancy abilities. In the meantime, they have the cool horse and their own spells.
At least in 1st and 2nd Edition the classes levelled at different rates. 3rd tried to treat all classes as equals, and that's just not accurate.
4th is apparently trying its damndest to make them equal, and thus, every class has at will specials, every class has encounter specials, and every class has per day specials. All of these things scale pretty well in terms of power AND they fit the "class role" for each character.
That said, I still love 3.5, warts and all, and knowing its limitations help you plan around them. You make sure to push your casters until they run out of spells. You put the right sort of treasure to help make the power creep go the way you want.
See, all this focus on combat is a little worrying. While it's nice to see Wizards become a little more useful than one-trick ponies at level 1 (though I still don't know why D&D never implemented a Magic Point (MP) system as that is the easiest way IMHO to handle wizard spell power), a huge part of D&D is everything BUT combat. A clever rogue and/or smart bard could get to the bottom of mysteries easily with some good roleplaying and use of knowledge skills.
They make it sound like every rogue is just an assassin, which is not what the class is supposed to be.
They make it sound like every rogue is just an assassin, which is not what the class is supposed to be.
I am with you on this..That is why I keep saying it looks like they are trying to make a pennpaper version of WoW( or any mmo really)LiveWire said:
But just so we are clear...be prepared for this ...this weekend.
hack n slahers ..might be bored ( there will be combat..but it is not the focus of the adventure)
I still think you will all like it.Yeah, I like the Player's Handbook 3.5 flavor text description better. Still, I think you're reading too much into things, on that one.
Based solely on its class features, a Level 1 3.5 rogue can sneak attack for stabbity death (or fire a bow for sneakity snipery death, but only at very close range) and find traps. They can do a lot more than that, but their features wouldn't tell you as much.
Without knowing the whole skill list and what each skill does, it's hard to figure whether that's "a good list" but I imagine you could accomplish plenty out of combat with things like Bluff, Intimidate, Insight, Streetwise, Perception, Dungeoneering and the like, depending on all the sub-functions for each.
It's clear that Hide and Move Silently were rolled into Stealth, Balance and Tumble have been rolled together into Acrobatics, and Climb, Swim, and Jump became Athletics. THANK BAHAMUT. 'Bout time. All that jazz.
Also, folks like Dave Noonan pushed hard for detailed Social Encounter rules and goal oriented quest rewards. The game isn't going to devolve into solely being a combat sim. It would be hard to deny that most games of D&D lean towards combat, however.
Most RPGs in general dedicate a whole lot of mechanics towards trying to bonk the other guy on the head before they bonk you.
Based solely on its class features, a Level 1 3.5 rogue can sneak attack for stabbity death (or fire a bow for sneakity snipery death, but only at very close range) and find traps. They can do a lot more than that, but their features wouldn't tell you as much.
Without knowing the whole skill list and what each skill does, it's hard to figure whether that's "a good list" but I imagine you could accomplish plenty out of combat with things like Bluff, Intimidate, Insight, Streetwise, Perception, Dungeoneering and the like, depending on all the sub-functions for each.
It's clear that Hide and Move Silently were rolled into Stealth, Balance and Tumble have been rolled together into Acrobatics, and Climb, Swim, and Jump became Athletics. THANK BAHAMUT. 'Bout time. All that jazz.
Also, folks like Dave Noonan pushed hard for detailed Social Encounter rules and goal oriented quest rewards. The game isn't going to devolve into solely being a combat sim. It would be hard to deny that most games of D&D lean towards combat, however.
Most RPGs in general dedicate a whole lot of mechanics towards trying to bonk the other guy on the head before they bonk you.
My character's background (also posted on the character sheet). Also, I decided, given the bio I wrote, to bump his Charisma down from 10 to 8, and boost the Wisdom up from 12 to 13 and Strength up from 13 to 14. I might end up changing the feat from Weapon Finesse to something else.
-------------------------------
Aranel was born 71 years after the Great Rift, the 2nd eldest son of the Ancalimë family. The patriarch of the family, Duhandrel, is a well-known and politically powerful wizard involved in the rebuilding effort following the Great Rift. His eldest son, Aranel's brother Tylandrel, obeyed Duhandrel's wishes and followed his father's footstops in training in the arcane arts and becoming an established mage of his own. Aranel's younger brother and sister, Theonym and Leanna, are also training in the arcane arts.
Aranel, however, rebelled against his father's wishes as he grew into adolescence. This rebellion stemmed from an argument in Aranel's childhood involving his father and his uncle, Linalir, an elf warrior who survived many battles in the lawless time after the Great Rift and helped lead survivors and establish a tentative peace in the post-Rift era. Linalir had no sons of his own, only twin daughters, and took interest in his nephew when he noticed that Aranel had a bit more strength and far more speed than his brothers. Having come of age right in the middle of the Great Rift, he was forced to learn martial skills in order to protect his younger brother (Duhandrel) and sister (Olyvia) after their parents perished in the Great Rift.
Aranel had been slowly trying to learn the arcane arts for a decade or two, grasping some initial concepts, but having trouble deciphering the intricate equations of the more robust spells. Around Aranel's 75th birthday, Linalir came to celebrate his nephew's coming of age and met with Duhandrel to catch up on family affairs. Duhandrel had become less communicative in the recent years due to his growing obligations to the elven community and the city of Moncur, but was pleased to see his brother, if nothing more than for the opportunity to solicit his brother's support for his latest plan.
Duhandrel was often regarded in matters of security in the capital city and the greater kingdom, and thought, perhaps arrogantly, that if another crisis such as the Great Rift were to befall Moncur and the whole of Amacom, he would be the hero to save the city and kingdom with his powerful magic. He had plans, he explained to Linalir, to educate and train selected youths of each race (particularly elves) in the arcane arts, to establish a lasting protective force that would never succumb to the lawlessness that occured in the years following the Great Rift.
Linalir, who was also becoming involved in the newly elected King's pet project of creating a security force, thought that training in martial skills would never fail where magic (rumored by some to be a primary cause of the Great Rift) might falter. Still, Linalir was an open-minded individual and sought to bring the best of all ideas to fruition. He listened to his brother's plans, explained his own, then suggest a combined training program involved both hand-to-hand-combat and magic. Duhandrel strenuously objected, praising his own plan as the only viable option. The argument became heated, until the point that Duhandrel cast a spell against Linalir, cursing him as the cause of their parents death and "no better than the scum that nearly doomed our society."
Aranel, returning from his studies in preparation for his own birthday celebration, arrived just in time to witness the attack, which scarred Linalir's face and torso.
It is this memory that Aranel carries with him, and is the reason why he refused to further train under his father. In the time since, he has barely spoken to his father, who has still supported his son, hoping to bring him around to his way of thinking. Aranel sought to do something to help society in a way that came naturally to him. He also wanted to learn to be self-sufficient so that he would not need to rely on his family's wealth.
He displayed great skill with the bow, which many elven children played often with as human children did with toys. He enjoyed being outside and away from the metropolitan crowd and urgency of the city, and was responsible for taking care of the family's pets while his older brother was training.
He had not seen Linalir again since that fateful day, though Linalir had seen to it that his words of advice would reach Aranel, as Aranel was approached several times in the following decades during his "nature walks" by other elves, and sometimes men and even halflings, emerging from the shadows or simply without a sound along a open, well-lit trail. They never identified themselves but for being loyal to the Kingdom and Linalir. They informed Aranel that they were tasked with imparting knowledge to him that may one day save his and his family's life. And so, he was trained, not only in the ways of combat, but in the knowledge to survive with little or no outside assistance. Thus, he became a "ranger."
His observance of the potential violence of magic had previously caused him to renounce it altogether, but after advice from Linalir, he had prepared to learn defensive and healing magic someday if necessary. He still, however, refuses to learn or use any magic that would bring harm to a person or animal.
-------------------------------
Aranel was born 71 years after the Great Rift, the 2nd eldest son of the Ancalimë family. The patriarch of the family, Duhandrel, is a well-known and politically powerful wizard involved in the rebuilding effort following the Great Rift. His eldest son, Aranel's brother Tylandrel, obeyed Duhandrel's wishes and followed his father's footstops in training in the arcane arts and becoming an established mage of his own. Aranel's younger brother and sister, Theonym and Leanna, are also training in the arcane arts.
Aranel, however, rebelled against his father's wishes as he grew into adolescence. This rebellion stemmed from an argument in Aranel's childhood involving his father and his uncle, Linalir, an elf warrior who survived many battles in the lawless time after the Great Rift and helped lead survivors and establish a tentative peace in the post-Rift era. Linalir had no sons of his own, only twin daughters, and took interest in his nephew when he noticed that Aranel had a bit more strength and far more speed than his brothers. Having come of age right in the middle of the Great Rift, he was forced to learn martial skills in order to protect his younger brother (Duhandrel) and sister (Olyvia) after their parents perished in the Great Rift.
Aranel had been slowly trying to learn the arcane arts for a decade or two, grasping some initial concepts, but having trouble deciphering the intricate equations of the more robust spells. Around Aranel's 75th birthday, Linalir came to celebrate his nephew's coming of age and met with Duhandrel to catch up on family affairs. Duhandrel had become less communicative in the recent years due to his growing obligations to the elven community and the city of Moncur, but was pleased to see his brother, if nothing more than for the opportunity to solicit his brother's support for his latest plan.
Duhandrel was often regarded in matters of security in the capital city and the greater kingdom, and thought, perhaps arrogantly, that if another crisis such as the Great Rift were to befall Moncur and the whole of Amacom, he would be the hero to save the city and kingdom with his powerful magic. He had plans, he explained to Linalir, to educate and train selected youths of each race (particularly elves) in the arcane arts, to establish a lasting protective force that would never succumb to the lawlessness that occured in the years following the Great Rift.
Linalir, who was also becoming involved in the newly elected King's pet project of creating a security force, thought that training in martial skills would never fail where magic (rumored by some to be a primary cause of the Great Rift) might falter. Still, Linalir was an open-minded individual and sought to bring the best of all ideas to fruition. He listened to his brother's plans, explained his own, then suggest a combined training program involved both hand-to-hand-combat and magic. Duhandrel strenuously objected, praising his own plan as the only viable option. The argument became heated, until the point that Duhandrel cast a spell against Linalir, cursing him as the cause of their parents death and "no better than the scum that nearly doomed our society."
Aranel, returning from his studies in preparation for his own birthday celebration, arrived just in time to witness the attack, which scarred Linalir's face and torso.
It is this memory that Aranel carries with him, and is the reason why he refused to further train under his father. In the time since, he has barely spoken to his father, who has still supported his son, hoping to bring him around to his way of thinking. Aranel sought to do something to help society in a way that came naturally to him. He also wanted to learn to be self-sufficient so that he would not need to rely on his family's wealth.
He displayed great skill with the bow, which many elven children played often with as human children did with toys. He enjoyed being outside and away from the metropolitan crowd and urgency of the city, and was responsible for taking care of the family's pets while his older brother was training.
He had not seen Linalir again since that fateful day, though Linalir had seen to it that his words of advice would reach Aranel, as Aranel was approached several times in the following decades during his "nature walks" by other elves, and sometimes men and even halflings, emerging from the shadows or simply without a sound along a open, well-lit trail. They never identified themselves but for being loyal to the Kingdom and Linalir. They informed Aranel that they were tasked with imparting knowledge to him that may one day save his and his family's life. And so, he was trained, not only in the ways of combat, but in the knowledge to survive with little or no outside assistance. Thus, he became a "ranger."
His observance of the potential violence of magic had previously caused him to renounce it altogether, but after advice from Linalir, he had prepared to learn defensive and healing magic someday if necessary. He still, however, refuses to learn or use any magic that would bring harm to a person or animal.
I like it. We both kind of have "daddy issues." :lol; I was actually planning on writing something about how my grandfather was an adventurer, but then I realized that what was in my head was a little too Roy from OOTS.
Anyhoo, more 4E stuff.
Armor and currency fluff:
Hrm, it got shrunk. Full-size.
Incidentally, for my Fieren concept, skill training in Streetwise and no Charisma penalty would be about perfect. I think I'm really leaning going to pre-order 4th Ed.
At any rate, we now have our pointy-eared friend that likes to live in the woods and a barmaid that's been spending her days in "fighter college."
Anyhoo, more 4E stuff.
Armor and currency fluff:
Hrm, it got shrunk. Full-size.
Incidentally, for my Fieren concept, skill training in Streetwise and no Charisma penalty would be about perfect. I think I'm really leaning going to pre-order 4th Ed.
At any rate, we now have our pointy-eared friend that likes to live in the woods and a barmaid that's been spending her days in "fighter college."
FYI. My skYpe account is DMSpooky
I will probably invite everyone into a conference session at the start of the game.
EDIT : Nice backgrounds both of you ... you guys are as *nuts* as me it seems.
edit2: off course I know some secrets that make the way your BGstories fit in even juicier
edit3: JayD...I tried youyr username for skype..but you are not alone out there .lol which one is you?
I will probably invite everyone into a conference session at the start of the game.
EDIT : Nice backgrounds both of you ... you guys are as *nuts* as me it seems.
edit2: off course I know some secrets that make the way your BGstories fit in even juicier
edit3: JayD...I tried youyr username for skype..but you are not alone out there .lol which one is you?
rSpooky said:
Fine by me. I hope my barmaid hostess / bouncer idea isn't a liability; it just added some believability to the whole "this character is over four decades old and she hasn't started 'adventuring' for cash yet, so what does she do for money?" problem.
If she were slightly more attractive (damn 25 point buy) and had some more skills (damn limitations of 3.5), it would fit even better.
Our elven friend may not have that problem as he can probably hunt for everything he needs.
Indeed. There was already a JayDub and a JayDubya. I had to go with jaydubyadubya (oh noes, people know all 3 of my initials now, I have to eliminate you all).
lastendconductor
Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
Didn't you get the memo? this is D&D 4th: my little pony edition! all your characters are awesome all the time, and can't lose, suffer or die! oh and the less stats, rolls and realism the better; that stuff is too complicated and hard for the new target audience!LiveWire said:
Go to hell WotC!
Dkinght in some ways I share your opinion..but untill I see it all and actually played it I cannot give a full opinion on it. I can say though that I have the strong feeling alot of house rules reverting to "the old ways" will be implemented. OR that I will only take some ideas out of 4th and use them in my adventures ( I wander what edition gygax played)DKnight said:
I am weary of the over simplification, but more worried on the combat and superhero orientated approach.
These things are not always needed.. heck one of the best campaigns I ever played in was the one where we, the player were ported ourselves into the DnD world with no way back, and over time we learned the common language ( it was not English) the skills we needed(I could not wield a sword
) and some learned to use magic etc... eventually putting us in the classes we wanted to play.By no means were we the heroes ..especially after having to run from invasion... but boy was it fun
You can already have your characters be epic god-heroes, or you can have them be regular shmoes.
It's completely up to the DM to decide whether they roll for stats, what they roll, or if they'll use point buy, how many points, the type of gear they'll be getting, if a "magic shop" exists and if so, where, etc, etc.
I tend to like the more epic, high fantasy fare myself, but I like it to start out being well-grounded in reality.
That's one of the key points in Eberron, actually - once you reach L10-12 you're already in a power class that exceeds most of the sentient beings in Khorvaire. That doesn't mean there aren't high level threats, there are, but once you reach that point, you're capable of being a serious player in world events.
I'm sure there's a lot of things to rag on 4th edition for, but that complaint doesn't really sound right to me.
It's completely up to the DM to decide whether they roll for stats, what they roll, or if they'll use point buy, how many points, the type of gear they'll be getting, if a "magic shop" exists and if so, where, etc, etc.
I tend to like the more epic, high fantasy fare myself, but I like it to start out being well-grounded in reality.
That's one of the key points in Eberron, actually - once you reach L10-12 you're already in a power class that exceeds most of the sentient beings in Khorvaire. That doesn't mean there aren't high level threats, there are, but once you reach that point, you're capable of being a serious player in world events.
I'm sure there's a lot of things to rag on 4th edition for, but that complaint doesn't really sound right to me.
JayDubya said:
Well, to me the problem is not that you can be powerful, but the extensive focus on that.
More focus on being an uber person that kicks monster ass left and right and less focus on story- plot- etc
You mention ebberon, but note how that is a newer setting , already using same trend. (I like the setting do not get me wrong)
From my experience the growth into the higher stuff is so much more rewarding... but it also depends on your DM. When I was really learning the game as a player , I had one great DM with who used wonderful narrative. My char (a dwarf) was allready hitting the good stuf fin levels.. but epic events happened based on my actions in the game and how the DM interpreted that effected the world and the characters in it. Because I had no control over it..and grew into it ..it meant more.. and makes me more attached to my characters.
I dunno .. I cannot explain it, but maybe you see what I am tryign to say.
lastendconductor
Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
Well, yeah, you could fully twist the rules to your liking (that's horrible DMing IMO I may add) but why bother? I mean, just a quick glance at that 4th ed sheet you posted:
1)Tiefling Wizard : what. the. fuck?? why not half dragon/half cat ninja ranger?
2)Unaligned: hahahaha. endorsing weak roleplaying I see, little goth lolis can't grasp that moral shit I guess.
3)Healing surge: oh poor wizards, was about time they could heal themselves. Should have rocketlaunchers and jedi powers too, they are too weak by themselves!
4)Infinite spells: :lol
Seems a perfect fit for our little 12 y/o brother's game.
rSpooky, I would agree on the caution part if this wasn't so obvious. The jump from AD&D to 3rd was bad enough (sadly I had to play mostly that because nobody wanted to go back), except for the ogl boom, but they stayed half there still. Now they see they can finally get it their way, so they're cutting all ties with the old stuff and tailoring the game for their same teenager TCG tard crowd.
It's like the pussyfication and dumbification of action movies... now D&D is finally PG13 too. Oh boy how would I love to be wrong, but everything points on the opposite direction... I'll guess I'll give it a playtest, it's coming next month isn't it?
1)Tiefling Wizard : what. the. fuck?? why not half dragon/half cat ninja ranger?
2)Unaligned: hahahaha. endorsing weak roleplaying I see, little goth lolis can't grasp that moral shit I guess.
3)Healing surge: oh poor wizards, was about time they could heal themselves. Should have rocketlaunchers and jedi powers too, they are too weak by themselves!
4)Infinite spells: :lol
Seems a perfect fit for our little 12 y/o brother's game.
rSpooky, I would agree on the caution part if this wasn't so obvious. The jump from AD&D to 3rd was bad enough (sadly I had to play mostly that because nobody wanted to go back), except for the ogl boom, but they stayed half there still. Now they see they can finally get it their way, so they're cutting all ties with the old stuff and tailoring the game for their same teenager TCG tard crowd.
It's like the pussyfication and dumbification of action movies... now D&D is finally PG13 too. Oh boy how would I love to be wrong, but everything points on the opposite direction... I'll guess I'll give it a playtest, it's coming next month isn't it?
DKnight said:
Am I talking about house ruling the game into oblivion? No. I'm talking about the normal character creation process and the normal campaign setting decisions that every DM of every game has to make.
That level of response is strange.
People played as Aasimars. People played as Tieflings. 3.5 Tieflings made good Wizards and Rogues. They brought them in line with the other races in terms of power level and they no longer have a level adjustment, I'm sure Aasimar will be getting similar treatment within the MM. I'm really not sure what you're complaining about, exactly.
If it's that they've become "Core" as opposed to only in the Monster Manual or Campaign Setting books, that's really not a big problem as I see it. I like playing with Monster Manual races. If other people don't, that's their prerogative. Ultimately, it's more a matter of what the DM wants and doesn't want in his or her game.
My wife once played an Avariel (+2 LA Winged Elf) in a FR game. Some people like exotic races, is what I'm saying, and the DM has approval or disapproval, and there are very simple rules for incorporating the non PHB stuff into the game.
Incidentally, in 3.5 Half-Dragon is a template, but most people don't use it for PCs, much like with vampires and liches. If it were used, it would come with a hearty +3 LA.
Beats me. They're all unaligned so it seems likely they didn't want to mess with alignment in the playtesting.
Not sure what this is about, but any party with a wand of CLW would be at full hp every night anyway.
Yes, infinite weak abilities at will, limited use strong abilities. Keeps the game going at a steady pace.
I dunno, a game setting itself is not going to make anyone play like an obnoxious 12 year old.
June.
lastendconductor
Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
Well, I'm complaining about the game drifting into weirdo absurd furry land... would you let your players play as a valkyrie teapot with a jetpack? even if some monster races are humanoid, they aren't meant to be played. Players will usually do it just to gain unfair advantages and your party and ultimately your world would be inconsistent, chaotic, unbalanced, weird and funny looking. Do you want your players to run the fellowship of the ring or the xmen? seems like a no brainer to me.JayDubya said:
A CLW wand is (should be) a hard object to get by, for a lvl 1 like that I'd say impossible. I'm not completely sure what is that either, but it looks like autohealing at will.JayDubya said:
Magic is not a joke. Not everyone can use magic well, it takes super careful planning and preparation (in reward, it should be very powerful). This is not for "helping the pace", this is for those whinny brats who want to play a mage but are too lazy/dumb and cry and moan when they have to sit out a combat because they suck at planning and strategy. Well, not everybody can handle magic, get over it! But instead, 4th ed dumbs it down yet another thing for that poor little girl... great.JayDubya said:
Quality of the rules and setting are directly proportional to the quality of the game you run, that is obvious. If the game has everything dumbed down and already figured out, expect your players to put much much less effort if any at all.JayDubya said:
Uh, thanks. I thought it was April.JayDubya said:
DKnight said:
Of course not. I also wouldn't let them play as a Succubus or a Nymph or a Vampire or a Gargoyle unless I wanted a campaign in which that sort of thing would be appropriate (and sometimes I've kind of wanted to play a Gargoyle campaign, I was sucker for that cartoon).
If it's got a level adjustment, at the bare minimum, it can at the very least be used as a cohort. There's nothing wrong with using it if it fits.
More or less, the LA keeps everything balanced, actually. Have you ever played with a Goliath, Aasimar, Tiefling, Orc, Avariel? I have. Works pretty damn well. They're lower level than normal, meaning lower saves, lower and fewer attack rolls, and if you're a caster, unless that LA is low, forget about your high end spells and I hope you think the racial bonuses are worth it.
I would have to assume that the paradigm of what hit points mean has shifted if people can recover them like that. They've always been mostly an abstract.
I have to admit, I'm not sure about these changes either. I'll have to read it and test it and see how it plays out. In any event, hp clearly no longer represent direct physical trauma - perhaps more of a fatigue or glancing blow sort of thing, like in RCR Star Wars.
Also, yes, a wand o' CLW is impossible for a lvl 1 character to get ahold of unless the DM is stupidly generous with early game loot. That is true. My point was simply that for much of the game, it is not impossible, and healing to full during any given break period was easy as pie. The wealth-by-level guidelines even assume you're getting and exhausting limited use items.
You're talking to someone that likes the Vancian spell slots and wants them back in Final Fantasy despite the impossibility of such a thing.
However, I can understand the underlying philosophy, and I can respect it. The only concern I have is the overall game balance - if a Wizard can cast magic missile at will, the first level fighter needs to be that much better, and the average L1 encounter needs to be that much stronger as well. If the game is well balanced across the board, I could care less how many times the Wizard can spam a basic level 1 spell. If that same Wizard can spam the equivalent of Meteor Swarm, then the game's got a serious problem.
Like I was saying before ITT, the Wizard is a glorified crossbow user for his first few levels. Frankly, I'm okay with that in the 3.5 paradigm, because that is the sweet spot for a fighter - the early game. You keep your wizard safe, you build a rapport with them, you save their ass and they'll buff you and do the same for you when the situation requires quite a bit more than a sword and a magic missile.
However, if the classes were simply balanced objectively better, then such conceits are unnecessary, and so too would be a 2nd Ed style experience table.
Well, they have really built up the notion of quests and social encounters and I like what I'm hearing on that end. As long as the combat is fun and challenging and it flows relatively quickly, I'll be happy.
I've heard about all sorts of stunts people have been doing with the new skill system, as well as enemies like Bugbear stranglers that can sneak up behind you, garrote you, and use you for cover against your friends. Sure, the heroes are going to have more hp and more capacity to recover hp between and even during battle, and the Cleric is going to be less dedicated to band-aid duty... but let's see the monster manual and the xp charts. If the baddies are suitably beefed, it'll be okay. I need to see the big picture, and right now, I've only got snippets.
Some parts I love. Other parts I'm cynical about.
I'm not sure how it works out, but originally, the books were going to have a staggered release date. Now the PHB, DMG, and MM hit the same day. June... 9th, I think?
KittenMaster
Member
Thalm Kuuz is a little halfling, the only child of his family, and born into a rather civil environment oblivious to the happenings of the outside. Wanting their son to be proud, Thalm Kuuz's parents send him to a college in Moncur, where he decides to become a Wizard. However, Thalm was not motivated in completing assignments in other studies of subject, only Wizardly. As a result, even with be able to cast spells, he flunks college, which could potentially shame his parents.
So Thalm Kuuz decides to lay low and become an adventurer in an attempt to make up for his embarrassing downfall, in secret which his parents do not know about. Of course, he is not very experienced in actually traveling or survival.
His chosen school of magic is Evocation, which should allow him to create things of nothing, a type of magic he felt was most presentable.
So Thalm Kuuz decides to lay low and become an adventurer in an attempt to make up for his embarrassing downfall, in secret which his parents do not know about. Of course, he is not very experienced in actually traveling or survival.
His chosen school of magic is Evocation, which should allow him to create things of nothing, a type of magic he felt was most presentable.