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The Official Headphone Thread 2.5: We're Making WAVs and Catching FLAC

T

Tommy DJ

Member
You know that really high pressure impact when you get some really awesome tight bass? I reckon the HD800's 6khz peak feels sort of like this (or I'm actually blowing my ears out), only its combined with painful sibilance at the same time.

When its paired with acoustic or classical, the effect is pretty magical I think. I like listening to pop and its really unbearable without EQ. I've used the Sonarworks VST to cut the treble down a fair bit and I can still "feel" the pressure around 6khz. This is with an unmodded HD800 BTW.

At the very least that's how I see it. I've heard lots headphones with ringing and a lot of treble energy. They generally sound pretty terrible and sharp and that's about it. The physical impact you get from HD800 doesn't really exist in those sort of headphones. leng jai notes that they disproportionately brighter at higher volumes and I completely agree based on what I'm experiencing from them.

Head Fi user Arnaud used some of his crazy acoustic software to identify the exact problem by modeling the sound pressure within the earcups. Arnaud's software shows that the energy during 6khz is both crazy hot and concentrated in one spot in the earcup. Then I believe there's also some combo of earcup-ear resonance that helps create the wall-of-sound soundstage effect.

All of the foam/felt/shelf liner mods work by spreading out the energy in the earcup as well as absorbing the energy. These mods apparently have the tendency to kill the wall-of-sound effect in favour of more accurate imaging too. Thanks to Arnaud's investigative work, these mods actually have some scientific basis and I think will probably do more than something like silver cable.
 
K

kami_sama

Member
Any longer than normal iem tips that are still the typical plastic ones?
I just got a pair of Xiaomi Piston 3 and while I like the sound, they don't isolate as mush as the she 3590, they don't go as deep.
 
L

leng jai

Member
Tommy DJ said:
I've just re-bought a demo pair of HD800s again because the price was just too good.

I don't agree with leng jai on the Beyerdynamic T1 but I think his opinion on the HD800 on the previous page is pretty much spot on. Acoustic, dark sounding jazz and classical work extremely well on the stock HD800s. No matter how you cut it the HD800 will always be a bright headphone.

Pro:
- Still the cleanest sounding headphone out there. Everything sans 6khz is completely mint.
- It has the same wide and deep soundstage of AKG headphones without the questionable imaging.
- Really comfortable.
- Very fast and actually dynamic sounding. Creates a very engaging listen.

Con:
- That 6khz peak is extremely horrible when combined with how dynamic the HD800 is. EQ can't completely eliminate it.
- It may actually sound brighter than headphones with huge treble peaks because of this.
- Bass rolls off too soon.
- The box and foam materials have a pretty horrid chemical smell.

Pro/Con?:
- It might have a recessed midrange but that seems to make its soundstage wider so YMMV.

Verdict: Really don't bother unless you are willing to do something to tame the treble energy. I think physical mods + some light EQ is the right way to go.

The only aggressive method of EQ that I've found that works is Sonarworks' VST plugin that you can try for 21 days. They provide a generic HD800 EQ preset based on the measurements from numerous HD800 samples. I've tried it for a few hours and I reckon 100% Wet + Custom Curve with -2.0 Bass Boost and +2.0 Tilt results in something fairly close to good studio monitors.
Click to expand...

Tommy DJ said:
You know that really high pressure impact when you get some really awesome tight bass? I reckon the HD800's 6khz peak feels sort of like this (or I'm actually blowing my ears out), only its combined with painful sibilance at the same time.

When its paired with acoustic or classical, the effect is pretty magical I think. I like listening to pop and its really unbearable without EQ. I've used the Sonarworks VST to cut the treble down a fair bit and I can still "feel" the pressure around 6khz. This is with an unmodded HD800 BTW.

At the very least that's how I see it. I've heard lots headphones with ringing and a lot of treble energy. They generally sound pretty terrible and sharp and that's about it. The physical impact you get from HD800 doesn't really exist in those sort of headphones. leng jai notes that they disproportionately brighter at higher volumes and I completely agree based on what I'm experiencing from them.

Head Fi user Arnaud used some of his crazy acoustic software to identify the exact problem by modeling the sound pressure within the earcups. Arnaud's software shows that the energy during 6khz is both crazy hot and concentrated in one spot in the earcup. Then I believe there's also some combo of earcup-ear resonance that helps create the wall-of-sound soundstage effect.

All of the foam/felt/shelf liner mods work by spreading out the energy in the earcup as well as absorbing the energy. These mods apparently have the tendency to kill the wall-of-sound effect in favour of more accurate imaging too. Thanks to Arnaud's investigative work, these mods actually have some scientific basis and I think will probably do more than something like silver cable.
Click to expand...

That's the same reason I decided to get them. The HD800s have become the "bargain" in the high end range which is pretty crazy if you think about it.

I've been listening at slightly lower volumes and it largely fixes most of the treble issues but the problem is that sometimes the dynamics suffer and the vocals sound a bit distant due to the recessed mids. I'm finding certain piano notes the most painful (aside from high vocals).

At the end of the day 90% of my records that are well mastered sounds sublime on the HD800s and in general sound fine even at higher volumes. Vicious Delicious by Infected Mushroom for example sounds good no matter how high I turn it up. It's the pop/rock tracks will questionable mixing where I have to constantly tinker with the volume to avoid those painful treble spikes.
 
L

Linius

Member
Started working at a hifi shop since a week now. After three months I can pick up what we sell at cost price so it's a good time to pick up some new headphones. Gonna take my time listening to what we have. Currently thinking about the B&W P5's.

Only thing I've been thinking about for some while now is the fact if it's worth it to upgrade my iPod to a device like the above mentioned Fiio's or Sony's new walkman NW-A20. Never had the chance to test any of these devices to see if it's worth the money. Anyone in this thread ever upgraded from the latest generation iPod Classic to a high res DAP?
 
P

PastorOfMuppets

Banned
I'm currently using a set of HD598 on a Fiio e17 DAC/Amp to listen to stuff on my computer. Perfectly happy with it.

Question: I've been offered a HD600 for $270. Is it worth the upgrade and will I need a stronger amp to drive the headphones?
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
If they're new, come with warranty, or come in good condition...probably. I believe there have been a few Black Friday sales for that price. That being said, no biggie if you're looking at a used pair as replacement consumables, like earpads, for the HD600 are dirt cheap from China. Before buying, I seriously recommend listening to a pair hard and long before buying. They're cleaner sounding than the HD598 with a smaller soundstage, which seems to constantly gives people like you buyer's remorse. Really, buying blind is the easiest way to piss money away in this consumerist hobby.

As for your amp situation, the Fiio E17 probably isn't powerful enough to drive them if you have quiet recordings or want to play with EQ. They're not close to being efficient headphones. You probably want an externally powered headphone amplifier...doesn't have to be expensive, something like a Magni 2 would work fine.

That being said, the Sennheiser HD600 are one of those headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT880 that have stood the test of time. The worst thing you can say about it is that its bass doesn't extend all that deep, 3.5khz-5khz is a little too emphasized and the soundstage isn't as wide as some people like it. Problem 1 is a problem most headphones have but the HD600s respond alright if you use a high shelf filter correctly; Problem 2 is the easiest thing to solve as you basically just EQ 3.5khz-5khz down 3dB or something. In the world where technically deficient headphones are the norm, these problems are nothing.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Got my flat 4 nami.

First impressions, these don't isolate. Like, at all. Probably due to the very big vents it has.

Secondly, I knew this already, but man, the strain relief is pretty much nonexistent as well. No neck cinch too.

Thirdly, they stick out like Frankenstein bolts, meaning that you not only look ridiculous wearing them, they pick up all of the wind noise. All of it. The great big vents don't exactly help either.

All of which equate to a pretty poor iem to use outdoors, which kinda defeats the purpose of it being an iem. Luckily, it's pretty much what I want for portable listening at home and office where I actually have to attention to people.

As for sound, definitely much leaner than the asg2.5. Also definitely has more treble quantity. Will have to do more listening.

edit: oh god the soundstage.

I finally understand now.

The width of it is actually kinda disorienting.
 
C

ClayKavalier

Banned
I got a pair of HD 598s and while I love how they sound, the plug is really annoying. Can't use them with my phone because of the case, looks ridiculous coming out of my laptop, is generally unwieldy. I might have gone with the Momentum if I'd known about it.
 
N

nogoodnamesleft

Banned
Just saw this thread at the perfect time!


Driver - sony nwzx2 (god tier player)

Current buds -senheisser momentum in ear (don't like over the head)


Looking to upgrade to senheisser ie80s. Thoughts? Worth the upgrade?
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
At that price range I'd probably look at the Aurisonic Rockets, Audiofly AF140 or the fidue A83. The one which I've had experience with, the Aurisonics rockets, kinda lack the sparkle you'd want for house music, but are pretty ace if you have a lot of vocal heavy house music. If you're willing to step up a bit more the ASG 1plus I feel that they add that additional needed sparkle.

Also goddamn the Flat-4 nami seriously is one of the most detailed headphones I've heard and also the one with the largest soundstage. Not just for earphones, but for any headphone I've experienced. Then again my experience is mostly with closed back portables with the one exception being the alessandro MS1, and they aren't well known for their soundstage anyway. Drums and string instrument are insane on these, though the cymbals can come in a bit too hot at times.

They're detailed in a way that makes their note thickness sound really thin, and coming in from the much lusher ASG2.5 the Flat-4s can be fatiguing at times. No real sibilance though. I guess it's that 6kHz dip at work?

Super tight bass too, but nothing can beat the ASG2.5's impact. Also still feel that the 2.5's bass is more organic. Impressive depth from the nami though. Practically matches the 2.5 in depth if not in impact nor quantity. Which can be an advantage for other folks too.

Really fun sound to listen to.
 
N

nogoodnamesleft

Banned
Rockets aren't readily available here in aus. And my electronic music is mostly vocal free (its not really the radio friendly electronic its more niche)


So would the momentums->ie80s be a substantial upgrade? Momentum's are $169aud and the ie80s are 399 on special here at a local supplier.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
nogoodnamesleft said:
Rockets aren't readily available here in aus. And my electronic music is mostly vocal free (its not really the radio friendly electronic its more niche)


So would the momentums->ie80s be a substantial upgrade? Momentum's are $169aud and the ie80s are 399 on special here at a local supplier.
Click to expand...

They aren't? Addicted to audio carries them.

I don't mean it's just good for vocals. It's just that the mids on them are very good.

There are actually a bunch of places you can go to around Australia to audition headphones.
 
L

leng jai

Member
A2A are fantastic. Their prices are good, well stocked and you can audition pretty much anything you want for however long you want.
 
H

HiResDes

Member
nogoodnamesleft said:
Rockets aren't readily available here in aus. And my electronic music is mostly vocal free (its not really the radio friendly electronic its more niche)


So would the momentums->ie80s be a substantial upgrade? Momentum's are $169aud and the ie80s are 399 on special here at a local supplier.
Click to expand...
That's definitely not a good value at all, I'd definitely recommend checking out the Dunu DN-1000 as the V-shape and fast bass would really sound amazing with house music.
 
Bloodember

Bloodember

Member
just got my Polk Audio Ultrafit 500 in the mail today. They are replacing a pair of Sennheiser MX685. I like the MX685's, the problem is they make my left ear sore when wearing them, so I got something different. The Polk's fit great with no ear pain, which is good. Plus they do sound pretty good. I wear these when I'm outside.

I also have a pair of Fidue A65's coming also, these will be for listening to music around the house when I don't want to wear my cans.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Hmm, either I really don't have any recordings with bad audio engineering or the flat-4 nami isn't as intolerant of bad recordings as I was led to believe. Or maybe I just don't mind bad recordings because I used to listen to a lot of lo-fi.

I don't even really know what would constitute audio engineering that is unbearable to listen to. High levels of sibilance? Though the nami is surprisingly resistant to sibilance for how emphasised the upper midrange and treble is.
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
Australia, at least the eastern side of it, is actually pretty well represented in terms of audio. Addicted to Audio covers the headphone side of the business and Carlton Audio covers the loudspeaker side of the business. Just ignore what crap the salesman tries to peddle unless its actually relevant (fuck you, I'm not buying Nordost speaker cable). We even have some pretty awesome pro-audio stores like Soundcorp and Turramurra, who have a pretty great range of active monitors.

Considering all the stuff I hear from Americans and their inability to demo, I think we actually get it pretty good.
 
L

leng jai

Member
Tommy DJ said:
Australia, at least the eastern side of it, is actually pretty well represented in terms of audio. Addicted to Audio covers the headphone side of the business and Carlton Audio covers the loudspeaker side of the business. Just ignore what crap the salesman tries to peddle unless its actually relevant (fuck you, I'm not buying Nordost speaker cable). We even have some pretty awesome pro-audio stores like Soundcorp and Turramurra, who have a pretty great range of active monitors.

Considering all the stuff I hear from Americans and their inability to demo, I think we actually get it pretty good.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard great stories about Carlton Audio (mainly in terms of prices), the few times I've bought speaker gear it was from Clef.
 
N

nogoodnamesleft

Banned
I've been to both addicted to audio and minidisc. They are both great shops. Anyway,I took my ZX2 and listened to my Hi res flacs on the following at both stores

Ie80

Shure (don't know the model name, was just in my budget range)

Ie800

Aurisonic Rockets

Westone w30




Out of nowhere, I bought the westones. All of the rest sounded better than my momentum IEIs, but the only one that sounded substantially better for the music I listen to was the westones. Great separation, punchy clear bass, great lows and mids. I seriously can't fault them. The rockets sounded fantastic, but the max volume was quite low in comparison to the others, and the bass felt like it was kind of "far" (hard to explain). The shures were the worst of the lot. The ie80s weren't that much of an upgrade over my current, and the 800s were great too but I couldn't justify 800AUD.


VERY happy with my upgrade :)
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
What, how did you go to both stores at such a short time? Ones in Melbourne and the other one is in Sydney. o_O

Congrats on the upgrade though.
 
Certinty

Certinty

Member
So I bought the Sennheiser HD 598s and the cable is way too long.

Now I realise the cable that goes into the headphones is a twist and lock one. Will any shorter 2.5mm cable work with the headphones or should I invest more for a shorter official cable with the lock function?
 
Z

z3phon

Member
Need some help from you guys. I have the Beyerdynamic DT 990 and I would like to know how I can use these headphones with a mic on the PS4.
I have the astro mixamp that I'm using with it right now but how do I connect a mic to it. I've got a USB mic similar to the yeti mic's but when I plugged that in my headphone stop working.
The input and output settings changed to the USB microphone, like that I'm only getting the mic working and sound coming out of the TV instead of my headphone and there doesn't seem to be a way to only change the input and output settings on the ps4 separately.

I'm thinking of getting a clip on mic like this. How do I connect this to the astro mixamp with the headphone?
I'd really appreciate some help thanks.
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
Certinty said:
So I bought the Sennheiser HD 598s and the cable is way too long.

Now I realise the cable that goes into the headphones is a twist and lock one. Will any shorter 2.5mm cable work with the headphones or should I invest more for a shorter official cable with the lock function?
Click to expand...

The Sennheiser HD598 needs a 2.5mm TRRS (as opposed to TRS) jack so no a generic shorter 2.5mm cable isn't going to work. The official cable is only like $10 USD from memory anyway.

After doing the Anax 2.0 mod, I find it a sort of a double edged sword. It seems to reduce the treble peak but its still a really bright headphone. But the mod seems to reduce soundstage width and depth is reduced in favour of better imaging...I'm not sure if I actually like this since the wall of sound effect is pretty sweet. The mod combined with a simple -2dB high shelf filter at 100hz is pretty fun with 80s pop and rock, which I find always to be disagreeable with bright headphones. So the mod is one of those few things that does what its advertised to do to the letter. Still, people who say the HD800s are neutral are insane, don't know what neutral is, or have lots of high frequency hearing damage as its stupidly bright when stock, less bright when modded or slightly V shaped with the mod + EQ.

The mod is pretty cheap and easy to do so I recommend trying it though you might not actually like what it does lol.
 
Certinty

Certinty

Member
Tommy DJ said:
The Sennheiser HD598 needs a 2.5mm TRRS (as opposed to TRS) jack so no a generic shorter 2.5mm cable isn't going to work. The official cable is only like $10 USD from memory anyway.

After doing the Anax 2.0 mod, I find it a sort of a double edged sword. It seems to reduce the treble peak but its still a really bright headphone. But the mod seems to reduce soundstage width and depth is reduced in favour of better imaging...I'm not sure if I actually like this since the wall of sound effect is pretty sweet. The mod combined with a simple -2dB high shelf filter at 100hz is pretty fun with 80s pop and rock, which I find always to be disagreeable with bright headphones. So the mod is one of those few things that does what its advertised to do to the letter. Still, people who say the HD800s are neutral are insane, don't know what neutral is, or have lots of high frequency hearing damage as its stupidly bright when stock, less bright when modded or slightly V shaped with the mod + EQ.

The mod is pretty cheap and easy to do so I recommend trying it though you might not actually like what it does lol.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot, will get the official cable then. Much appreciated.
 
B

Benedict

Member
ItIsOkBro said:
These Xiaomi Piston 3 is the best $16.95 I ever spent.
Click to expand...

Might get those then.
Although My Xiamoi Piston 2 didn't last long at all before the stopped working... fell for the overhype there.

Edit: Then again, it would be better with a product where the volume buttons work on an iPhone. Any suggestions?
 
H

HiResDes

Member
Benedict said:
Might get those then.
Although My Xiamoi Piston 2 didn't last long at all before the stopped working... fell for the overhype there.

Edit: Then again, it would be better with a product where the volume buttons work on an iPhone. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
You would have to spend a lot more - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N3RFFV6/?tag=neogaf0e-20


Oh there are a few cheaper options too like to Ultimate Ears UE 600
Audio Technica CKM500I
HifiMan RE400
Etymotic Research MC3
 
K

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
That HiFiMan Edition S man.

pull-me-back-in-o-1.gif~original


Shit I might bite.
 
H

hitgirl

Member
It sort of bugs me that there is no one headphone for every use. Right now i have Sennheiser RS 195 for home theatre and games. Bluebuds Jaybird X for gym. Sony MDR1-A for work PC use. Logitech USB headset for skype calls. And now I'm looking at some sort of headphone for travel...
 
L

Linius

Member
I mainly look for a pair of headphones that I can use on the go. And I use them at home as well. Only seperate thing I have is some Sony earbuds for running. Got the NWZ W273 for that.

I'm really doubting if I should maybe go for the B&W P7 instead of the P5. It's just so big :O
 
O

oyoshimaru

Member
Im stuck between buying:

Bose SoundTrue in ear headphones
Audio Technica ANC23 noise cancelling earbuds



I dont actually fly often, can anyone let me know if the noise cancelling ability is worth using? priced at 65 and 55 dollar. Or can anyone recommend better earphones in the same price range?
 
H

hitgirl

Member
The Harman / Kardon wireless headphones worth a damn? I can get the soho wireless for $112... might be my travel headphones.
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
About a month ago I bought the Jaybird X2s and I can sadly say in no way can I recommend them for their purpose. Sound quality is fine for the price but the connection issues are constant and you can expect at least one brief disconnect every ten minutes or so at best.

However, the main reason I can say they're trash is that after a month they're already broken. I run about 5 1/2 miles every night which while decent is hardly the most strenuous exercise you can imagine but it was too much for these headphones. After about two weeks they started disconnecting for periods of 10 seconds or so and now the right earbud has gone completely deaf. I wish reviewers testing these wireless earbuds meant for exercise actually tested them in harsh conditions. They apparently come with a lifetime sweat damage replacement but given they couldn't last 30 days I'm going to do my best to return them instead.

One day I'll find the right earbuds for running :/
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Huh, that sounds more like a defect honestly. I'd say get one exchanged and if the problems still persists then get a refund.
 
B

br0ken_shad0w

Member
Thanks for the HD800 impressions leng jai and Tommy DJ. I may still decide to get them if they drop to sub $1k again. Though the treble peak is disconcerting since much of my music is JPop/KPop.
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
Antiwhippy said:
Huh, that sounds more like a defect honestly. I'd say get one exchanged and if the problems still persists then get a refund.
Click to expand...
We'll see, the fact that it worked, at least for a few weeks, and then started to go to shit makes me think it just couldn't stand up to the running but I might give it one more chance just because I don't think Best Buy will refund me.

Edit: Actually, today is the last day to refund, lol.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Hah, is it possible to go for the refund and buy it at another best buy to extend the refund date?

Also been listening more to the flat 4 nami and I think it's s seriously good phone for the price I paid. Still a bit too thin and dry to be used as my daily driver. Made me remember how much I missed a treble focused sound compared to my run of buying warm signatures. I think I might jump onto the aurisonics harmony if my local supplier picks up one and if it's true that it improves the mids and highs of the asg2.5. Still love the sound but my taste still prefers more treble quantity.
 
S

suplex

Member
Looking for recommendations for a pair of closed headphones for my wife in the $50 range. She would probably value comfort over anything else, and she listens to mostly pop music. Thanks!
 
H

HiResDes

Member
suplex said:
Looking for recommendations for a pair of closed headphones for my wife in the $50 range. She would probably value comfort over anything else, and she listens to mostly pop music. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I'd consider the Panasonic HTF600, JVC S680, or Gemini HSR-1000
 
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