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[SolarMystic]

So, if neutrality is the goal, HE-400s or HD600?

Though I'm not sure if I want to get a hifiman anyway just due to built quality generally.

I think the most common issue with hifimans is their cables, which is thankfully easy to exchange/replace.

If you go the 400s route, I would get the focus pads as well. Without the focus pads the sub bass rolls off a little early for a planar.

 

[Xander51]

I heard the Blue Lolas alleviate many of the comfort problems

Interesting! I might have to check those out in the future.

 

[Antiwhippy]

On that note though, how do you people define neutrality?

Olive welti?

Harmon curve?

Or just relative to what you experience?

 

[Xander51]

On that note though, how do you people define neutrality?

Olive welti?

Harmon curve?

Or just relative to what you experience?

I think the Harmon curve is a good start. For me, it's also a subjective thing. Do the bass instruments sound the way they would in real life, or boosted? Do the highs sound sibilant? Do voices sound like real voices or like they're made of distinct ranges? Etc.

 

[Tommy DJ]

There's no real accepted "neutral" but typically its a downward sloping curve. Every serious room calibration software - think the Room EQ Wizard, Dirac Live, JBL Synthesis - follow some implementation of the B&K Curve. I think the Olive-Welti Curve is essentially the same as these curves if the measuring and calibration process was tweaked to make sense for headphones.

I think Tyll's definition of "neutral" is basically this judging by his reviews. Makes sense to me, as he's not exactly the youngest guy and definitely isn't ignorant of the loudspeaker game.

My definition of a neutral frequency response is one that makes any content sound "good" or "acceptable". In the case of the Sennheiser HD600, it 100% achieves this for me except for a perhaps fairly hot 3-5khz that can make certain vocals sound a little shouty and pretty poor sub-bass, which actually doesn't really bother me all that much unless I A/B certain content. Realism is "irrelevant" to me because the recording process is as "unrealistic" as it can be, which isn't really a problem at all.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I think the problem with that for me is that I have a pretty high tolerance when it comes to what sounds good to me. Throughout my musical journey I listen to genres that typically have terrible recording standards like black metal, lo-fi indie, various genres of punk, underground hip hop, Rick rubin etc. Etc. I generally listen to genres that are typically very well recorded nowadays and I can tell when the recording is good or not, but in the end music is music.

Guess what I want is something that I can point to as the standard, which I realise is kinda foolish just due to the variances between recording studios and sound engineers.

 

[Xander51]

I think the problem with that for me is that I have a pretty high tolerance when it comes to what sounds good to me. Throughout my musical journey I listen to genres that typically have terrible recording standards like black metal, lo-fi indie, various genres of punk, underground hip hop, Rick rubin etc. Etc. I generally listen to genres that are typically very well recorded nowadays and I can tell when the recording is good or not, but in the end music is music.

Guess what I want is something that I can point to as the standard, which I realise is kinda foolish just due to the variances between recording studios and sound engineers.

Yeah, looking for one headphone or sound that serves as the "standard" is really really tough to do, since there's a degree of subjectivity to sound and every genre is different.

 

[DagsJT]

Are there any recommended closed back headphones which compete with the HD650's? Ideally something with a little more bass than the HD650s but I believe bass is increased anyway due to closed back.

Would be used mostly for music (R&B, hip hop, indie and folk mostly) with gaming and the odd movie.

I've got a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Vali so power isn't an issue.

 

[batsnacks]

Hi my old headphones broke (Audio Technica ATH-AD700) and I need to buy new ones. What's a good over ear pair ~$100 price that is durable and handles bass well? I liked my old audio technica pair well enough but I'm maybe looking for something with better bass if that's possible in that price range? I mostly use them for games and movies. Thanks.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Are there any recommended closed back headphones which compete with the HD650's? Ideally something with a little more bass than the HD650s but I believe bass is increased anyway due to closed back.

Would be used mostly for music (R&B, hip hop, indie and folk mostly) with gaming and the odd movie.

I've got a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Vali so power isn't an issue.

The ZMF classic sounds like something you might want to look into.

 

[Xander51]

Hi my old headphones broke (Audio Technica ATH-AD700) and I need to buy new ones. What's a good over ear pair ~$100 price that is durable and handles bass well? I liked my old audio technica pair well enough but I'm maybe looking for something with better bass if that's possible in that price range? I mostly use them for games and movies. Thanks.

If you weren't asking for tons of bass, I'd recommend the Audio Technica ATH-M40X in that price range. They have solid, well-rendered bass, but they're not overflowing with it. If you want something really bassy, my favorite headphone for that is the Beats Solo 2, but it's out of your price range when it's not on sale. They're also less durable than the M40's.

The HyperX Cloud/Cloud II/Takstar Pro 80 is also a great option, but again, not totally dominated by bass. The bass is there and solid, but not overwhelming to the rest of the sound. You absolutely can't beat the value with this particular headphone so it nails the price component.

Hopefully that's enough to at least get you started!

 

[BeforeU]

Probably one of the better Bluetooth headphones out there, but you save quite a chunk of change by going wired.

Considering you could get a wired Momentum 2.0 for half that when on sale, I wouldn't go for it unless you absolutely need wireless headphones.

Wireless is not absolute but man everyday I ask myself, wouldn't it be nice if my headphones were wireless.

Honestly if this is something I am going to keep it for 4-5 years. I wouldn't mind spending it.

But I also love the Bose QC comfort and noise cancellation but they aren't wireless.

God damn, why can't have everything I love in a single damn headphones.

anyone here own Momentum 2.0 Wireless?

 

[batsnacks]

If you weren't asking for tons of bass, I'd recommend the Audio Technica ATH-M40X in that price range. They have solid, well-rendered bass, but they're not overflowing with it. If you want something really bassy, my favorite headphone for that is the Beats Solo 2, but it's out of your price range when it's not on sale. They're also less durable than the M40's.

The HyperX Cloud/Cloud II/Takstar Pro 80 is also a great option, but again, not totally dominated by bass. The bass is there and solid, but not overwhelming to the rest of the sound. You absolutely can't beat the value with this particular headphone so it nails the price component.

Hopefully that's enough to at least get you started!

I don't think any of the beats headphones are over ear. All of the beats headsets I've tried out have been uncomfortable for me, so those are out.

 

[HiResDes]

They're plenty of bassy headphones in the range including the M-Audio Q40, JVC S680, Creative Aurvana Live, etc

 

[SolarMystic]

Are there any recommended closed back headphones which compete with the HD650's? Ideally something with a little more bass than the HD650s but I believe bass is increased anyway due to closed back.

Would be used mostly for music (R&B, hip hop, indie and folk mostly) with gaming and the odd movie.

I've got a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Vali so power isn't an issue.

I asked for a closed back that has a similar signature to the hd650 on another forum and almost everyone unanimously said beyerdynamic dt 150.

I've got a pair coming this week to demo, I'll let you know how it fairs against my hd650.

 

[Xander51]

I don't think any of the beats headphones are over ear. All of the beats headsets I've tried out have been uncomfortable for me, so those are out.

Ah sorry, missed that part! They do have over-ear headphones way above your price range, but yes, they're still pretty clampy just like the on-ear models. Good luck in your search!

 

[Moodz]

So my cat ate the cord of my Phillips headphone once again, that little fucker, and it was in my bag too!

Is there any headphone with mic and remote out there marketed with a more solid cord? I had a Phillips X O'Neil a while ago with some kind of "rope" cord, the sound was shit but serviceable for my commute.

Or should I go Bluetooth? What about compression and health concerns these days?

 

[Antiwhippy]

Just buy a case to store your headphones after you've used them?

Seems cheaper and easier than replacing your headphones whenever your cat decided to go chomp.

 

[Dobsie]

Not sure whether I should be posting this in gaming side or not, but I can't make threads yet so here seems like the next best place.
I want to add a vmoda boompro mic to my Fidelio X2's for use with my ps4. I want to connect to my av receivers headphone jack instead of the ds4's. Would this setup work if I were to put a splitter on the end of the boompro lead and run a male to male lead from the splitter to the headphone jack of the ds4?
I know I'll have just as many cables as if I were to buy a modmic but I'd rather the one lead if I want to use this setup on my laptop, phone etc...

 

[SolarMystic]

The ZMF classic sounds like something you might want to look into.

Zach recently reintroduced the Classics about a week ago. Will be interesting to read some impressions.

 

[Moodz]

Just buy a case to store your headphones after you've used them?

Seems cheaper and easier than replacing your headphones whenever your cat decided to go chomp.

Yeah that might be a solution... I need new headphones anyway, I'll look into some with case included.

 

[Antiwhippy]

If you want something at that price range that covers a) durable b) comes with inline mic c) carrying case, you might want to give the vmoda m80 a look.

The vmoda m100 and the vmoda XS both have folding mechanisms that fold up more compactly and have more compact cases (the m80's case is still fairly compact) but I'm guessing that they are out of your price range?

 

[DagsJT]

I asked for a closed back that has a similar signature to the hd650 on another forum and almost everyone unanimously said beyerdynamic dt 150.

I've got a pair coming this week to demo, I'll let you know how it fairs against my hd650.

That would be great. Cheers.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Hey, peeps. I've been using my ATH-M50s with my Note 4 since I got them and was told that there are ways to get better sound than just directly plugging them in. What's a good way of getting in on that?
(I use .FLAC for most of my music files already.)

 

[Moodz]

If you want something at that price range that covers a) durable b) comes with inline mic c) carrying case, you might want to give the vmoda m80 a look.

The vmoda m100 and the vmoda XS both have folding mechanisms that fold up more compactly and have more compact cases (the m80's case is still fairly compact) but I'm guessing that they are out of your price range?

They look cool but yeah, I don't have that kind of budget right now. Maybe I should save...

 

[e_i]

Sony MDR-XB950BT/B Extra Bass Bluetooth Wireless Headphones (Refurbished) on sale for $99.99

 

[Xander51]

Hey, peeps. I've been using my ATH-M50s with my Note 4 since I got them and was told that there are ways to get better sound than just directly plugging them in. What's a good way of getting in on that?
(I use .FLAC for most of my music files already.)

I guess you could get a small portable DAC/Amp combo to use with your Note 4, but the M50's are pretty efficient and you probably wouldn't notice a massively huge difference.

 

[HiResDes]

Hey, peeps. I've been using my ATH-M50s with my Note 4 since I got them and was told that there are ways to get better sound than just directly plugging them in. What's a good way of getting in on that?
(I use .FLAC for most of my music files already.)

Meh, not much really, use that money to get better headphones eventually.

 

[LQX]

Any recommendation for adhesive rubber feet I can use on a amp that gets really hot? The ones that came with my Schiit slide after the amp has been on a while.

 

[FoxSpirit]

The HD650 is a strange phone. Always sounds good at demos, but not with soundcard/ODAC+O2. Better when I use my Clip+ as source. Some goes for my wireless Senns, better with lower Fi source.

No wonder people lover partnering the HD650 with a tube.

 

[Afro]

Snowy day so I took some pics. Could use this setup for life.

flickr

 

[K.Jack]

Hey, peeps. I've been using my ATH-M50s with my Note 4 since I got them and was told that there are ways to get better sound than just directly plugging them in. What's a good way of getting in on that?
(I use .FLAC for most of my music files already.)

The M50 isn't worth investing money into better sources. Like Highres said, you'd gain much more by spending that money on a much better headphone.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Snowy day so I took some pics. Could use this setup for life.


flickr

Those are some amazing pics. Also, that old Marantz will surely sound great.

 

[Afro]

Those are some amazing pics. Also, that old Marantz will surely sound great.

Thanks, I appreciate it! Yeah, that warm Marantz + X1 combo can put you right to sleep. Love 'em.

 

[j-wood]

So I've been using the beats solo 2 for almost a week and I love them, think they sound amazing.

The only issue is the on ear's kind of hurt after multiple hours of listening So i'm debating trading them in for the studio edition that goes over ear, since they are also still on sale and I would only have to pay a little bit more for them. Are they of the same caliber as the solo 2's?

If not, I can deal with the on ears.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/beats-b...-sky/6383111.p?id=1219211245172&skuId=6383111

 

[leng jai]

Anyone else smirk whenever they're reading DAC impressions on Headfi? Before buying the Schiit Bifrost 4490 I read through all the threads related to it and the older models. The amount of posts claiming that there was a night and day difference between the Uber and 4490 board in terms of detail/soundstage/treble clarity was astounding when in reality the disparity is probably minuscule.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I smirk all the time visiting head fi.

Eh whatever, I enjoy visiting head fi, but only if I take every impression with a massive grain of salt.

 

[andylsun]

I smirk all the time visiting head fi.

Eh whatever, I enjoy visiting head fi, but only if I take every impression with a massive grain of salt.

the Stax thread on head-fi is shockingly bad. Either audio voodoo (coating DAC's in sorbothane to make them sound 'better') or completely incorrect advice (e.g. running a 100V only Stax on US voltages will be ok because it magically adjusts - it doesn't and Stax cut the 110V windings).

The DIY section is worth a read (DIY electrostats) and amp building (SRX revisited), but other than that, it's pretty poor. Nobody appears to measure *anything*.

 

[SolarMystic]

Anyone else smirk whenever they're reading DAC impressions on Headfi? Before buying the Schiit Bifrost 4490 I read through all the threads related to it and the older models. The amount of posts claiming that there was a night and day difference between the Uber and 4490 board in terms of detail/soundstage/treble clarity was astounding when in reality the disparity is probably minuscule.

It is amusing going back and forth between Head-fi and SBAF.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I feel like SBAF goes even deeper on DACs.

 

[SolarMystic]

I feel like SBAF goes even deeper on DACs.

Idk, I find SBAF to be more realistic than head-fi some of the time. They are almost polar opposites in philosophy which is why I read both when looking for impressions on gear.

 

[leng jai]

What on earth is SBAF?

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Super best audio friends. It's a forum that spun off from Changstar.

They're both kinda insane (SBAF/Changstar on DACS and amps) but at least SBAF has measurements, some meaningful discussion, and they tend critique/scrutinize gear whereas a lot of HF now consists of a buncha noobs and audiophools making mountains out of subjective hogwash. All of the "night and day", "300 hours burn in", "don't listen to your $1000 IEMs from a smartphone" et al. parroting and blind brand worship has really turned that place into a cesspool in the last couple of years.

It's only gotten way worse now that everyone seems to practically welcome ever more expensive gear and people get way, way defensive over shit they've never even heard. (The Shure SE1500 thread is a recent example)

I mostly use HF as a hub to get news from and to keep in touch with friends I've made over the years. Beyond that, it's just aggravating to browse through these days :l

 

[SolarMystic]

Speaking of amps/dacs, I've been thinking about building a rig around my hd650. After trying many different headphones, this is the one that I keep coming back too. Even after trying the $1k LCD-2, I always come back to my trusty hd650.

Currently run it from a Modi 2 Uber/Vali 2 stack, but am now thinking of getting a Valhalla 2 and in a few months, a Bifrost 4490.

With the Valhalla 2 on low-gain, I should be able to even run my 400i out of it (if I don't sell the 400i). If not I can alway get a Magni to complement the Valhalla.

This would mean the end of the road of my audio journey aside from a random headphone purchase every once in awhile. (at least until Sennheiser announced the HD650 2.0)

 

[thuway]

Speaking of amps/dacs, I've been thinking about building a rig around my hd650. After trying many different headphones, this is the one that I keep coming back too. Even after trying the $1k LCD-2, I always come back to my trusty hd650.

Currently run it from a Modi 2 Uber/Vali 2 stack, but am now thinking of getting a Valhalla 2 and in a few months, a Bifrost 4490.

With the Valhalla 2 on low-gain, I should be able to even run my 400i out of it (if I don't sell the 400i). If not I can alway get a Magni to complement the Valhalla.

This would mean the end of the road of my audio journey aside from a random headphone purchase every once in awhile. (at least until Sennheiser announced the HD650 2.0)

Have you seen Z-reviews?

He did a comparison between the Bitfrost and the Modi 2 - and he gave the most honest review ever. You should check it out: (spoiler - the Modi is probably a good enough job and you won't hear a difference)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg

Oh and as a former HD650 owner, have you tried the Fidelio X2? I think you'll be wowed. Imagine taking the HD650 and making the soundstage wider, the accuracy in tact, losing out some of the smoothness and getting a little spiky- but making the bass ten times better.

As an aside- I just did an A/B between a Schiit Modi 2 and an SMSL Sanskrit 2- and couldn't hear a difference. The Schiit is going back so I can keep the SMSL with my Fiio E09K.

 

[Xander51]

So I've been using the beats solo 2 for almost a week and I love them, think they sound amazing.

The only issue is the on ear's kind of hurt after multiple hours of listening So i'm debating trading them in for the studio edition that goes over ear, since they are also still on sale and I would only have to pay a little bit more for them. Are they of the same caliber as the solo 2's?

If not, I can deal with the on ears.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/beats-b...-sky/6383111.p?id=1219211245172&skuId=6383111

That's the exact issue I've always had with the Solo 2's, compounded by the fact that I'm a large-headed glasses wearer.

I recently owned some Studios for a while, and also found them rather tight on my head. They're more comfy than the Solo 2 though, but not as much as I thought they might be. The sound isn't quite as punchy as the Solo 2's, but it still has the same sound signature. Also, the noise cancelling on the studios is poor, and causes a prominent hissing sound whenever music isn't playing. I'd highly recommend demoing some studios at length before taking the plunge.

EDIT: Thuway, thank you for linking Z-reviews. Even though he doesn't always use proper terminology and sometimes gets carried away in his enthusiasm, he is by far my favorite youtube audio reviewer.

 

[thuway]

A few pages back I asked you guys if I should upgrade my Fiio E17k to a E09K + New DAC, and I was told not to.

I'm glad I did, because I can't believe how much more detail I'm hearing in my Fidelio X2's. I'm literally blown away.

 

[SolarMystic]

Have you seen Z-reviews?

He did a comparison between the Bitfrost and the Modi 2 - and he gave the most honest review ever. You should check it out: (spoiler - the Modi is probably a good enough job and you won't hear a difference)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg

Oh and as a former HD650 owner, have you tried the Fidelio X2? I think you'll be wowed. Imagine taking the HD650 and making the soundstage wider, the accuracy in tact, losing out some of the smoothness and getting a little spiky- but making the bass ten times better.

As an aside- I just did an A/B between a Schiit Modi 2 and an SMSL Sanskrit 2- and couldn't hear a difference. The Schiit is going back so I can keep the SMSL with my Fiio E09K.

I like watching Z reviews, but not for the accuracy of them. Almost anything he tries is his new god-tier headphones.

I've owned the X2 twice, and sold them twice. I did not like the huge bass and recessed mids. Great for a pair of open bass-head headphones, but I prefer my hd650.

 

[LQX]

A few pages back I asked you guys if I should upgrade my Fiio E17k to a E09K + New DAC, and I was told not to.

I'm glad I did, because I can't believe how much more detail I'm hearing in my Fidelio X2's. I'm literally blown away.

What DAC did you upgrade to? I bet it is the E09K that's making the major difference. I kept reading on Head-Fi that it was crap but really liked mine. I even had a HD650 on that thing and it sounded great.

 

[SolarMystic]

What DAC did you upgrade to? I bet it is the E09K that's making the major difference. I kept reading on Head-Fi that it was crap but really liked mine. I even had a HD650 on that thing and it sounded great.

I think the fact that Fiio products are cheap (cost, not quality) and made in China turns some people off of them. Personally I like their portable stuff. Haven't owned any of their desktop stuff besides an e10k.