The Official Religion Thread
- Thread starter U5230
- Start date
- Status
In my religion, heaven has many detailed descriptions that are available in the Quran and the Sunnah. It is described as something beyond imagination.Jenga said:
Those descriptions include, for example, gold garment and silk garments they have the same names as things we already know in this life, but they are something completely different and much better in the afterlife. There are other deceptions such as the rivers that flow under it. And again, they are something different from what we know in this life and those names are mere descriptions.
It is where people live eternally and don't feel pain, hunger, sadness, tiredness...etc. And they will have eternal youth and unimaginable beauty, wealth, eternal servants, peace...etc.
There are some descriptions about its scale, number of doors, levels, how the people live, servants...etc. For example, if a woman in heaven looked at this universe, her light would cover every part of this universe.
You can read more if you search about the description of heaven in Islam in many Islamic websites in English if you are interested. I am not that good with descriptions and I don't remember every single detail right now.
Personally, I would love to be there especially because of the eternal servants, beautiful women and the delicious food. Sounds amazing if you ask me :lol
As for the people you love in this life, you will see them in heaven if you both go to heaven. And if you have an ugly wife/ugly husband, don't worry because she/he will be always young and unimaginably beautiful.
Actually, I find some descriptions hilarious and extremely interesting :lol
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
I see no reason to thank a being who is totally incidental to everything. Why should anyone thank a being who doesn't make a difference? Is food going to be on my plate because I thanked god? Are people in Asia going to stop starving? Things happen because of long chains of material events. Even if there is a god, it is not a god that interacts in human affairs.GT500 said:
I could theoretically run 50 miles in 100 degree heat, but I couldn't do it without irrevocably screwing myself up. This notion that pain uplifts is a specious one. Pain usually turns people into nasty individuals. People either get over the psychic terror, or they become damaged goods.Jibril said:
Of course, your line of reasoning has absolutely no standard of evidence. Anything that happens was "meant to be" (even though, as I just said, god isn't really there if you actually think about it), and it is the individual's fault for failing to overcome that. It's also self-defeating. Anyone can break with the necessary pressure. Anyone can undergo so much torment that they'd rather "curse god and die". And you either admit that god is in control of these circumstances or that people and circumstances have free will and can exact that kind of pain on you. The notions of the Job-like figure and the spiritual tests are myths. And anything that can be handled has nothing to do with god.
Since I believe that God created me, gave me choices and I don't know what will happen to me in the future. If it is something good, I want to thank God. What does giving choices mean? For example, if I want food, I will work for it. God wouldn't have imposed anything on us if we were meant to sit down an do nothing and just get what we want by just telling God.Mgoblue201 said:
I didn't say that we should just sit down and pray and God will give us everything. Since God created everything, he also gave us minds to choose whatever we want to do with the things around us.
I see there are many reasons to thank God. If you don't see reasons, it is your choice, right? I have my choice and I love it and at the same time, I told you some of my reasons if you want to know and I also respect the others' choice.
As long as I have respect to the others' beliefs, it is all right. I already said that we have the choice. I wouldn't stick my nose in other people's belief if that is what they chose and what they want. I am not the one who is going to punish them or reward them after all, it is God.
I love my style and I think it is good to be tolerant and open minded.
If it is perfect, eternally peaceful and there are no problems, so it can't be horrible. It is supposed to be something unimaginable by our current given minds. Hell is exactly the opposite. if you read hell descriptions and prefer to go there, it is up to you. The afterlife is either heaven or hell according to what I believe. God won't erase you forever and it is only one of the two. I prefer the safe and perfect side and again, it is my choice. If you don't believe in this, then nevermind.Shanadeus said:
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Except all material things are contingent on other material things. People can't simply work for food if there is a famine or if they do not have the means. For thousands of years sickness developed for want of proper nutrients, both in understanding those nutrients and the proper means to acquire them. Why, for instance, should my life be irrevocably different just because I lived in a time and place in which I have everything I need? In any other circumstance, I might have died at an early age. I wouldn't have much of a choice then.GT500 said:
The religious always say that god rewards the faithful. There are countless stories in religious texts of people being provided for when they have belief. But in the real world this never happens, unless you happen to confuse material cause and effect for the invisible hand of god. It's almost as if he doesn't really exist at all. The rest of your post is contingent on a point that you barely attempted to prove. There is no reason to believe in a being for which there is little proof of his existence.
Question for atheist GAF:
Assuming there is only two places in the after life, heaven and hell. If God wants to throw you in hell in the afterlife, would you except it? What would be your excuse if you want to go to heaven? What would be your reaction, or you would prefer to leave it until then and not think about it right now?
I know that atheists don't believe in those things in the first place and that's why I wrote "assuming". But if there is, what does atheist GAFfers think? This question is no joke and isn't to meant provoke you guys, it is just a question that have always been puzzling me.
What about agnostics? As far as I know, they always say things like "I don't care if there is afterlife or no. If there is, it would be great or maybe boring".
Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question and as I said, I didn't ask it to offend you. I asked out out of curiosity. So feel free to answer it the way you like.
Assuming there is only two places in the after life, heaven and hell. If God wants to throw you in hell in the afterlife, would you except it? What would be your excuse if you want to go to heaven? What would be your reaction, or you would prefer to leave it until then and not think about it right now?
I know that atheists don't believe in those things in the first place and that's why I wrote "assuming". But if there is, what does atheist GAFfers think? This question is no joke and isn't to meant provoke you guys, it is just a question that have always been puzzling me.
What about agnostics? As far as I know, they always say things like "I don't care if there is afterlife or no. If there is, it would be great or maybe boring".
Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question and as I said, I didn't ask it to offend you. I asked out out of curiosity. So feel free to answer it the way you like.
I would also pick a safe and perfect side over an constant agony, constant negative sensations with no positive sensations is also a horrible end, so it's not that I'm saying heaven would suck compared to Hell.GT500 said:
And if it is unimaginable then I really don't see why there'd be such earthly things such as amazing fabrics, servants or food. Such an description of heaven is an let down and a disappointment, and really only something that material people would care about.
The reason I'm saying it is horrible is because of "people live eternally and don't feel pain, hunger, sadness, tiredness", so if I stubbed my toe I wouldn't even feel a momentary pang of pain and get annoyed at whatever I hurt my foot at. It's negative emotions and events (doesn't have to be major ones even, my example) that makes the positive ones mean something.Without a reference point and an negative alternative to an positive emotion such as happiness, that very emotion becomes worthless.
Ending up as forever happy creatures is thus an horrible end in my opinion.
Urban Scholar
Member
Greetings, I suppose you could define my religious view as being Catholic. For the most part I think religion is something that one believes in because they want to believe in something. Hmm, I hope that didn't sound combative in any sense, I'm saying that its good thing to believe.
Any who, given my family background(Haitian) its normally frowned upon with my stance on religion. Not an avid church, nor do I believe you have to be either and I don't or won't bend over backwards for missing events as well. I'm cool with everything but when I express this to some that inquire I feel like the odd man out...always. I even avoid talking or even hanging out with some people because of my stance. I wear a cross on my person always, and read my bible from time. Does this make me any less faithful than someone else? I feel that isn't my place to judge really. Before this gets too wordy, I have this thread bookmarked for future discussion and such.
Any who, given my family background(Haitian) its normally frowned upon with my stance on religion. Not an avid church, nor do I believe you have to be either and I don't or won't bend over backwards for missing events as well. I'm cool with everything but when I express this to some that inquire I feel like the odd man out...always. I even avoid talking or even hanging out with some people because of my stance. I wear a cross on my person always, and read my bible from time. Does this make me any less faithful than someone else? I feel that isn't my place to judge really. Before this gets too wordy, I have this thread bookmarked for future discussion and such.
Whether you lived in thousands of years ago or these days death is a certainty, right? The thing is you don't know for sure is when you will die. And for me, this life is a test. If people do good things and don't be rewarded or don't bad things and just get away with it, it would be unfair in my opinion. As a human, I consider my self a goal archiving creature. That's another reason for me to believe. And I try to do good things not just for the sake of being good, it is because I also expect a reward in the afterlife.Mgoblue201 said:
As for your second part of your post, I would rather talk about my beliefs and tell why I believe in them rather than trying to prove the existence of something I believe and you don't believe. Because we can go and argue forever unless one side in willing to listen and be convinced by the other's opinion. And the result would be a ruined and useless thread. I suppose it is better to understand each other rather than creating arguments about the usual stuff.
GT500 said:
We live to better ourselves in this world, in your heaven I would be bored, I would consider it worse off than this world. For one to feel all the positives one must feel the negative emotions, in a world with so much harmoney I do not believe that 1 entity has not done something sinful such as cursing/messing shit up to change stuff up since it is ETERNITY HERE we are talking about. If they didn't I would question if in heaven these entities have free will.
Also eternal servants? in heaven? WTF is that shit about?
It sounds like a personal fantasy where one can enjoy all the pleasures of life and nothing else which I do not believe would satisfy anyone from the modern times or the past, since we need goals to try and reach keep us SANE.
Crag Dweller
aka kindbudmaster
Sh1ner said:
Who are these servants? People good enough to get into heaven but not good enough to be served? Wouldn't that just suck. You were good all your life but one little fuck up and bam! your stuck busing tables for all eternity.
If God can do anything, he can remove the feeling of boredom or anything you think inappropriate. It is always good to refer back to the definition of God before writing things like this, really. What I really mean here: beliefs is summed up and add together. Like, believing in one thing without ignoring the other, which is God's ability here.Sh1ner said:
And those eternal servants aren't other humans. They are creatures that God created specifically to serve you and greet you. And again, God can do anything, so why not?
Anaxagoras
Banned
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Couched within your post are several standard religious arguments. The first is that suffering or death don't matter. But they do matter, for instance, because some people don't convert until they are old or close to death. You might then say that god corrects all injustice and makes things fair, but there is little proof of that. If someone dies become of malnutrition, is this somehow fair? Is there any justice in that? Why can't god simply correct the injustice by providing material means? What if someone simply needs more time to come around? Is god going to provide for them?GT500 said:
Once again, any answer provided to these questions would be no different than simply saying that his acts are indistinguishable from the material world around us. It's also untrue to say that people would make the same choices in different circumstances. If I was starving because no one provided me food, then my life would be completely different than it is now. I could probably come up with a circumstance in which a kid gets abused horribly as a child and falls in with a gang. A bullet is the only thing between death and a later conversion in life. Or perhaps that child is born into a loving home and doesn't have any emotion problems at all and doesn't make those same bad choices. Trying to untangle the ideas of free will from an active, omnipotent god and a callous world makes for an incoherent argument.
And I'm trying to tell you why I don't believe in any religion. I'm addressing all your points that I feel are relevant. The rest is just motive, but I don't care about motive. Either religion or true or it isn't.GT500 said:
I also find the idea of a perfect afterlife incoherent because 1) things like memory or personality are material and 2) to even think evil is to do evil. Therefore, perfect good is impossible.
Crag Dweller said:
Also if you dont feel negitives of the entire emotion spectrum then why would one need servents?
If God can make heaven perfect would that negate the need of Servents? I am seriously confused with the logic here. Before someone jumps in and says theirs no logic in faith, I call BS because their has to be for understanding. Taking stuff at face value is not truly accepting anything, your just hoping that everything works out.
GT500 said:
There goes free will, oops he just removed your intelligence with it too, now your constantly in a state of pleasure to stop you from feeling anything else! Why exist at all? I would feel voilated and as a toy in a babies hand if I was in that position, but lets be honest I wouldnt have the option to feel that cause god willed it away before hand because he can see into the future.
This is sounding even worse than before man. This is not a personal attack if it looks like one. This shit actually sounds scary to me. I rather be teleported to the James Camerons ALIENS universe.
If it is peaceful and unimaginable, why not? It is supposed to be perfect and enjoyable forever. If God can remove any inappropriate feeling in the afterlife (in heaven of course), there wouldn't be any problem. You know that believers believe God can do anything. And since I believe in this, I am excited.Himuro said:
Anaxagoras
Banned
GT500 said:
I would answer your question with a question:
What if you found out that your religion was false and faced another God, What would you tell him?
Anaxagoras
Banned
Himuro said:
I would actually like that, that is of course if it is guaranteed that it would be a positive and an enjoyable experience all the way, but too bad its not true.
Do you expect me to continue the discussion with you since you took this approach? It is not like I forced you to believe in this. Since you are going trying to make fun of what the others believe, I am not willing to continue this discussion with you.Sh1ner said:
If I express you or your opinions as unintelligent or insult you, it would just hurt the thread. Sorry, this isn't my my way of discussion.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Yes, odds are that the creator of life doesn't give a damn about its celebration. Wait, what?Black_Ice said:
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I've always appreciated the Buddhist view of the afterlife. They believe that everything is an illusion and only exists this way because of preconceptions you hold and your actions and thoughts determine how you view your next life. You can [temporarily] doom yourself to hell, heaven or anything in-between.
However, all those bardos (levels of reality) are illusions and the ultimate goal is to free yourself from them and realise your true nature.
However, all those bardos (levels of reality) are illusions and the ultimate goal is to free yourself from them and realise your true nature.
There are many possible answers for the questions, but your reply is good reply I must say. In my opinion, it is actually the reason why people believe in whatever they believe. They believe that their beliefs would lead them to a certain path they desire. And that's why changing beliefs or converting to another religion is a hard choice because of the answer you wrote. What I really thought of your post is atheists are like any other people whether they called their beliefs "religion" or not. Thanks for your reply.Anaxagoras said:
Anaxagoras
Banned
GT500 said:
Crag Dweller
aka kindbudmaster
GT500 said:
I see. Thanks for the clarification.
Anaxagoras
Banned
GT500 said:
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in, the difference is that some of us go one god further.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
Himuro said:
Besides
"Man, I wish I had a car that worked, I wish my football team could play, I wish my wife could have a baby, and I wish my house wasn't shit." And then him getting all of it because he starts liking God more, I don't remember anything in that movie.
Well besides the badass "We got our asses kicked, but it's ok because they were cheaters so we still get to go to the chamionships" rally.
EDIT: Oh, and it makes sense that it would be racist because it was written and directed by a baptist church in Georgia.
GT500 said:
I would simply ask God why.
I have lived what I (and most religions) consider to be a good life. The only real difference between me (atheist) and my sister (Catholic) is that she chooses to believe in God and I do not. If my non-belief is the only reason that I get sent to hell then so be it.
Steppenwolf
Member
People should handle their religion like a penis. Don't let it hang out when you leave the house and don't shove it down your kids throats.
GT500 said:
What I don't get(and I'll answer your question, I promise) is why do the religious allow their deity to berate them into only two decisions? When you get hungry, do you not have more choices than just chicken or beef?
Most humans do not let their parents force them into decisions of this magnitude, and even when they do, they almost assuredly do it unwillingly.
If your parents said, "Son, you either can be a doctor or you can get the fuck out of our lives." Would not the appropriate response be a "See ya!"
Yet, throughout most religious people adult lives, they are constantly trying to live up to the one choice they are given with no other outcomes afforded to them, wouldn't it be a better life if they told God to shove his ridiculous choices up his ass?
I always do this, and I need to learn to finish my thoughts with more cohesiveness, but I will ask this:
Why do you let this God make you believe there are only two choices upon your death. Why aren't you allowed to disregard both? Why can you not say no to both vanilla and chocolate ice cream and have Mint Chocolate Chip instead? Why, with any of the other choices in your life that you make would you say no to be backed into this corner, but for God you allow it? Shouldn't the makee have the power of choice over the maker? He did give us free will after all, but upon death, our free will is forfeit.
So with all of that said, I would take neither. I would disregard him the way I disregarded him in this life and I would forge my own path.
Anaxagoras
Banned
We believers aren't supposed to say things like "we will go to heaven for sure", because no one is sure if their sins are going to be forgiven or not. It is up to God to forgive people or not. We believe that God is just and forgiving. So, whatever the outcome is, we believe God is just and won't punish us or reward us until he shows the proof.uraldix said:
Gamer A: I wish I lived thousands of years ago so I wouldn't have to study, attend classes and get a degree in order to have a well paid job.Jenga said:
Gamer B: But there weren't any videogames thousands of years ago.
Gamer A: Oooops!!
:lol
Mgoblue201 said:
But if there's proof that god exists then it means that there's no need of faith!
I mean you don't believe in a pen or a mountain, they just ARE.
I feel the whole stuff is a big misunderstanding in the meaning of faith.
I didn't follow much in the school type thing they sent me in but I know that faith does require the lack of proof, if you need proof you obviously are not holding Faith.
Heck if somebody proved that God exists there would be litterally NO Faith at all!
The rest is simply a consequence, if you can have Faith that God exists then you can have believe that he's waiting for you in this magical place where there's no war, hunger and candy lolipop for everyone.
Anaxagoras
Banned
AFreak said:
That is because this life is not a test from god. This life is not designed for the purpose of an after life, it's the other way around.
Religions are made to be divisive, you are with us or against us, hell or heaven, reward or punishment.
If there was a third neutral option the religion won't be a successful one, won't it? Even the people who didn't receive God's message are sent to heaven.
malingenie
Member
Mael said:
"Faith does require a lack of proof." Can you understand though, how this statement doesn't sit right with some people?
A) If everything else in your life can be proven and empirically tested, what makes divinity separate than everything else.
B) Who says that "faith requires lack of proof"? So far it has been humans saying this, and humans are not divine so why take it as an apriori truth?
C)If faith does not require proof, why does everyone jump with excitement when they see Jesus in their cornbread?
Anaxagoras
Banned
GT500 said:
When I was a child, I prayed to god for a bike.
But I quickly found out he didn't work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
:lol
Some people may say the the existence itself is the proof of God's existence. Others may say that our everything is this universe from atoms to galaxies are too complex to be created by chance.Mael said:
According to the Quran, many people told the prophets they want to see God in order to believe even though they have already shown them miracles. In other words, they were insisting on worshiping statues or/and not believing in God. What you are trying to say is something like: if God showed himself to the people, it is just like showing a student the book in the middle of an exam, right?
Anaxagoras
Banned
If I remember correctly it was the second one.Dever said:
On that note:
With every 72 virgins that they get in paradise, they also get 72 mothers in law.
malingenie said:
Abslutely, that's the main problem I have with it, but I also have a problem with people voting the way they do in my country, so...
malingenie said:
I'm actually saying that Faith require ABSENCE of proof, if you have a proof then it is no longer Faith, it is something else (like I don't know .....I mean that's probably the difference between reality and truth :-/).
Take the Faith people have that some guy died on a wood cross and came back from the dead, that mystery REQUIRES that no one EVER find any proof that it never happened.
If you believe in that THEN you can say you hold Faith.
If you have proof then you no longer have Faith that it happened.
I don't know if I'm clear though....
As for C, seriously there's people making trips to be cured by a miracle appearance to a place where there's definite proof it NEVER EVER happened, people do stupid things that's what people do.
On that subject I'll had that I have no opinion on the matter, it's totally irrelevant to me.
Some people may say the the existence itself is the proof of God's existence. Others may say that our everything is this universe from atoms to galaxies are too complex to be created by chance.
That's a good way of seeing what I mean.
Anaxagoras said:
Well, I know why the actual religions do it. What I was trying to get at was, why do the religious (why does GT500 accept these are the only two choices just because he is told to) themselves allow it to happen?
Why would they let their god do this to them when they know they have more choices than black and white.
P.S. In my head this makes sense, I've always been bad at getting my thoughts onto paper, so if I need to think this through again, let me know and I'll try it another way.
If you ask for forgiveness, it means you regret what you did and will never do it again. If you are doing this over and over and asking for forgiveness, then you are just mocking yourself. I think you didn't understand the idea of forgiveness in the first place. There are many details and conditions that shouldn't be neglected. It is not as you said.Anaxagoras said:
- Status