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[Chaplain]

Short videos that answer various questions about Christianity:

What is the Central Message of the Bible?

Why Did Jesus Come to Earth?

What Did Jesus Claim about Himself?

What is the Gospel?

Is the Exclusivity of Christ Unjust?

What Does Jesus Have to Do with My Problems Today?

What Does It Mean for God to Love Us?

Is the Virgin Birth Important?

How Were the Old Testament Saints Saved?

Is Belief in the Bible Necessary for Salvation?

What is the New Birth?

What Is Reconciliation?

What Does It Mean to Abide in Christ?

How Does a Christian Resist Temptation?

Why Is Obeying Scripture So Important?

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

What Was the Importance of the Transfiguration?

What Happened on the Day Jesus Died?

Has Science Buried Religion?

What Is a Disciple?

Why Did Jesus Say "My God, My God ..."?

Hate Your Own Family?

Wise as a Serpent, Innocent as a Dove?

Two Netflix streaming films that answer many questions about Jesus and Biblical Faith:

The Case for Christ
71 minutes
2007

In this thought-provoking program, Lee Strobel -- a former legal editor for the Chicago Tribune and a self-described atheist who became a Christian -- shares the details of his spiritual quest and asks tough questions of a wide range of experts. Is the New Testament a reliable source? Did Jesus Christ in fact exist? Was he really the Son of God? And could Christ's resurrection have actually occurred?

The Case for Faith
79 minutes
2007

In a thoughtful meditation on the rational case for faith, award-winning reporter Lee Strobel investigates tough intellectual objections to Christianity: Why is Jesus the only path to God? And if God is so loving, then why is there so much suffering? Strobel's answers can help clarify in Christian viewers' minds their opinions when discussing faith with their skeptical friends. The bonus featurette "Dealing with Doubt" is also included.

 

[Chaplain]

A great commentary on Luke 8:1 & Luke 8:5–10:

Luke 8:1 (a)
Soon afterward Jesus began a tour of the nearby towns and villages, preaching and announcing the Good News about the Kingdom of God.

The Good News is this: All manner of sin except one shall be forgiven all men. That one is the blasphemy of the Spirit—rejecting the free gift of salvation (Matthew 12:31). Rejecting the work of Christ is the singular sin that will send a man or a woman to hell—a concept understood even in our own judicial system.…

Convicted of mail fraud in 1830, George Wilson was sentenced to death. But since Wilson’s brother had done Andrew Jackson a great personal service, President Jackson wrote George Wilson a pardon. When the pardon was delivered to his cell, however, Wilson refused to take it. The man sentenced to die refused to receive the pardon. What to do? When the case went before the Supreme Court, Chief Justice John Marshall wrote this decision: A pardon is a slip of paper the value of which is determined by the acceptance of the person to be pardoned. If it is refused, it is no pardon at all, simply a piece of paper. Thus, George Wilson must be hanged.

So, too, “You’re forgiven,” Jesus says, “if you’ll take the pardon I offer. If you don’t, you render it meaningless, and you will be sentenced to death eternally.”

Courson, J. 2003. Jon Courson's Application Commentary 342. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.

&

Luke 8:5–10
“A farmer went out to plant his seed. As he scattered it across his field, some seed fell on a footpath, where it was stepped on, and the birds ate it. Other seed fell among rocks. It began to grow, but the plant soon wilted and died for lack of moisture. Other seed fell among thorns that grew up with it and choked out the tender plants. Still other seed fell on fertile soil. This seed grew and produced a crop that was a hundred times as much as had been planted!” When he had said this, he called out, “Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.” His disciples asked him what this parable meant. He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables to teach the others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: ‘When they look, they won’t really see. When they hear, they won’t understand.’

Why would Jesus teach in such a way that truth would be concealed? Simply because He will honor the wishes of every person. Therefore, if a person does not want to see, the Lord won’t force His way upon him. You see, Jesus could have spoken so persuasively and argued so powerfully that people who didn’t want to be converted would be converted even against their own will. But Jesus is not after conversion by force. Because He honors man’s free choice, He says, “If you don’t want to know the truth, I will conceal truth from you. If you don’t want to know Me, I won’t force Myself upon you.” Teaching through parables provided a way that those who wanted to know truth could receive it, while those who didn’t want to know would be unable to receive it.

Courson, J. 2003. Jon Courson's Application Commentary 342. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.

 

[jdogmoney]

Rather convenient. If someone doesn't buy it, it's their fault, rather than the fault of the material.

 

[JGS]

Rather convenient. If someone doesn't buy it, it's their fault, rather than the fault of the material.

Well if someone doesn't buy it, why isn't it their fault?

 

[Shanadeus]

What do you mean of not understanding them? I talked about someone who admitted this himself although I think he was probably joking or even mocking. He was an atheist and I said that to clarify. It would be still funny to me if anyone else said it. I think it is funny because it is funny, not because an atheist said it. Don't worry, I am not someone who generalizes people, especially atheists who don't normally have the same beliefs about everything else other than God's existence, which is also a subject of different possible beliefs.

I believe in God who can do anything such as resurrecting us as he created every single one of us uniquely in the first place. No thing is impossible when you believe God and only God can do it. And here, we return to the same spot of the usual cycle of "I believe in God because of blah blah" and "I don't believe in God and I want a proof blah blah".

And by the way, anyone who believe in the concept of soul also believes that consciousness is a separate thing. The best examples are sleeping or passing out=\=death.

And if you don't mind, I want to know more about your thoughts about the soul concept. Care to elaborate? I already said earlier atheists can have completely different beliefs because they don't follow a religion. I am not asking this to make fun of you or anything, I am asking this question in order to "understand" you so you won't accuse me of not understanding you.

Shanadeus said he will share his thoughts about the soul concept when he is in the mood.

And now's the time. (all this is under the presumption taht the end of the universe is a cold death)

A soul is indestructible, in a way.
You will die, your body will fail, your neurons will decay and your mind will degrade into nothingness.
It doesn't matter if you manage to hold it out with technological breakthroughs and even mind uploading.

At some point in the far future - matter itself will decay.

Entropy.

But see, this isn't something that you need to worry about. Because at some point in this future, which you simply won't experience due to you not existing, matter will sprung forth from the quantum foam that perpetuates the universe.

Maybe a stray proton there, a couple of eons later a molecule somewhere else.
But with enough time, entire globs of matter will come forth from the nothingness and in the end you, your mind running on a suitable hardware to be more specific, will pop up out of the nothingness - free to continue with your life from where it ended.

And that's the soul - your immortality.

 

[Ashes]

So soul=metaphor for you?

 

[Shanadeus]

So soul=metaphor for you?

Not really, you are your soul.

You are immortal.

 

[Ashes]

Not really, you are your soul.

You are immortal.

But what is you?

Or 'i'?

 

[Chaplain]

Jesus on the soul:

“Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

"And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul?"

‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’

Jesus on marriage and the afterlife:

“Your mistake is that you don’t know the Scriptures, and you don’t know the power of God. For when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect they will be like the angels in heaven.

“But now, as to whether the dead will be raised—haven’t you ever read about this in the writings of Moses, in the story of the burning bush? Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ So he is the God of the living, not the dead. You have made a serious error.”

 

[JGS]

“Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Yet another fine verse to disprove eternal torment.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand which I'm staying out of.

 

[Uchip]

debating religion is just a total waste of time
never have i seen one side back down.

that said
its like believers dont want to admit they wasted their whole life singing praise to a figment of an ancient con artists imagination...

 

[JGS]

debating religion is just a total waste of time
never have i seen one side back down.

that said
its like believers dont want to admit they wasted their whole life singing praise to a figment of an ancient con artists imagination...

It's like non-believers don't want to admit they waste so much of their life talking about believers wasting their life.

Tragic

 

[jdogmoney]

It's like non-believers don't want to admit they waste so much of their life talking about believers wasting their life.

Tragic

Actually, it's usually pretty interesting. Not much of a waste if you're intellectually engaged.

Such as this:

Well if someone doesn't buy it, why isn't it their fault?

I'm going to present an example here.

Let us assume that someone is told that, if you add two and two, you get five.

Does the person bear fault for thinking that there's an issue? If course not! The information being presented is faulty.

I think I didn't reply to this at the time because I had lost all patience, but since I started working at a call center my tolerance for this kind of thing has gone up.

 

[JGS]

Actually, it's usually pretty interesting. Not much of a waste if you're intellectually engaged.

I agree unless their whining like junior was. Otherwise my life would be equally wasted not only being religious but talking to non-religious people for the heck of it.

I'm going to present an example here.

Let us assume that someone is told that, if you add two and two, you get five.

Does the person bear fault for thinking that there's an issue? If course not! The information being presented is faulty.

I think I didn't reply to this at the time because I had lost all patience, but since I started working at a call center my tolerance for this kind of thing has gone up.

I couldn't remember what this was about but looking back it appears you're saying the message is faulty so it's not the listener's fault.

However, that doesn't apply in this case because the parables weren't faulty. They were spot on. The ones who wanted to understand asked for further explanation like his disciples did. Others who were there for free grub, healings, & merely to see someone claiming to be the Messiah left after they got their physical needs met or maybe just wanted their ears tickled since Jesus was indeed an amazing speaking.

To explain everything in detail is a waste of effort to ones who aren't really interested. This thread proves that but it's actually the case for just about anything. The Gospels have tons of examples ofpeople being amazed by Jesus, but not his overall message.

Geometry is neat to a five year old but ultimately it's not tied to it's actual importance in math until they are much older.

 

[Shanadeus]

But what is you?

Or 'i'?

Whatever you want it to be.

 

[WillyFive]

that said
its like believers dont want to admit they wasted their whole life singing praise to a figment of an ancient con artists imagination...

Conspiracy!

 

[Tawpgun]

First time in this thread... But I don't really believe in the organized religions. However, if someone calls me an atheist, or even an agnostic, I kind of cringe. I don't really like to be associated with any kind of group like that.

I'm not sure if there's a word or group to put me in, but I do have some kind of a belief... It's mainly derived from the works of Carl Sagan and other notable people like him. It's the whole thing that we are made from atoms that came from the big bang. We're all made from the explosions of stars and other cosmic events. And when we die, our matter stays, as part of the grander cosmos.

Carl Sagan said that "We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." I really liked that. It's like life is the final evolutionary step for the greater universe itself. I don't know. I really liked stuff like that but it's not necessarily a belief or anything.

 

[Kinitari]

First time in this thread... But I don't really believe in the organized religions. However, if someone calls me an atheist, or even an agnostic, I kind of cringe. I don't really like to be associated with any kind of group like that.

That's the first problem, assuming there is a group in lack of faith. Not believing in anything just means you're -not- a part of a group, you shouldn't be associated with other Atheists, you don't share any beliefs in common, you just don't believe in the same thing.

I'm not sure if there's a word or group to put me in, but I do have some kind of a belief... It's mainly derived from the works of Carl Sagan and other notable people like him. It's the whole thing that we are made from atoms that came from the big bang. We're all made from the explosions of stars and other cosmic events. And when we die, our matter stays, as part of the grander cosmos.

Carl Sagan said that "We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." I really liked that. It's like life is the final evolutionary step for the greater universe itself. I don't know. I really liked stuff like that but it's not necessarily a belief or anything.

I don't know if this could really be classified as a 'belief' either. It seems like you are just taking what we know about the universe, and attaching sentimentality to it - which isn't a bad thing at all, I don't think. But if you don't believe in a 'God', then I'm sorry to say, you're Atheist.

 

[jdogmoney]

I read Sandman recently, and aside from being incredibly brilliant, it presented an interesting view that might spark three or four posts of discussion...

In it, God ("the Creator") is real, and so's Satan. (Well, "real" might not be the right word, but for the sake of argument.) Anyway, Satan gets a few good speeches and is a fantastic character, but the part that's stuck in my head is that the idea that he gets annoyed at all the people claiming that he's responsible for all of their wickedness. Here's a quote that sums it up:

"They talk of me going around buying souls, like a fishwife come market day, never stopping to ask themselves why. I need no souls. And how can anyone own a soul? No. They belong to themselves … they just hate to face up to it."

It's a perspective I rather enjoy. The character of Satan as generally presented never really made much sense to me. This guy decided to rail against God and is now a fallen angel and in hell, and also he wants to tempt humans to also go to hell because...well, for the lulz, really.

What's Satan like, in your opinion? Misunderstood hero, ala Paradise Lost? Evil personification of evil? The Bringer of Light and a figurehead for rationality? Something else?

 

[Chaplain]

What's Satan like, in your opinion? Misunderstood hero, ala Paradise Lost? Evil personification of evil? The Bringer of Light and a figurehead for rationality? Something else?

No need to speculate. The Bible gives the answer.

Job 1

One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the Lord, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them. “Where have you come from?” the Lord asked Satan.

Satan answered the Lord, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”

Then the Lord asked Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil.”

Satan replied to the Lord, “Yes, but Job has good reason to fear God. You have always put a wall of protection around him and his home and his property. You have made him prosper in everything he does. Look how rich he is! But reach out and take away everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face!”

Job 2

1 One day the members of the heavenly court came again to present themselves before the Lord, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them. “Where have you come from?” the Lord asked Satan.

Satan answered the Lord, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”

Then the Lord asked Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil. And he has maintained his integrity, even though you urged me to harm him without cause.”

Satan replied to the Lord, “Skin for skin! A man will give up everything he has to save his life. But reach out and take away his health, and he will surely curse you to your face!”

Matthew 4

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted there by the devil. For forty days and forty nights he fasted and became very hungry.

During that time the devil came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread.”

But Jesus told him, “No! The Scriptures say,

‘People do not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple, 6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say,

‘He will order his angels to protect you.
And they will hold you up with their hands
so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”

Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”

Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”

“Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say,

‘You must worship the Lord your God
and serve only him.’”

Then the devil went away, and angels came and took care of Jesus.

Acts 10

And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

Acts 26

Jesus said, "And I will rescue you from both your own people and the Gentiles. Yes, I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes, so they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then they will receive forgiveness for their sins and be given a place among God’s people, who are set apart by faith in me.’

2 Corinthians 4

Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

Ephesians 2

You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

2 Timothy 2

Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

Hebrews 2

Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death.

1 John 3

But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil.

James 4

So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Peter 5

Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.

Jude

But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses’ body.)

Revelation 20

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while."

 

[JGS]

It's a perspective I rather enjoy. The character of Satan as generally presented never really made much sense to me. This guy decided to rail against God and is now a fallen angel and in hell, and also he wants to tempt humans to also go to hell because...well, for the lulz, really.

What's Satan like, in your opinion? Misunderstood hero, ala Paradise Lost? Evil personification of evil? The Bringer of Light and a figurehead for rationality? Something else?

It's not really a case of him turning people away from God as much as it is him wanting them to be on his side. That is hardly a rarity in politic. Just look at it as political fight and it makes more sense.

A big difference is that, unlike most politician, Satan does inded know how it's going to turn out. However, what works is the idea that the only reason people worship God is for 2 things
1. Fear
2. Benefits

Not just because. It's a challenge to him. So even though God is more powerful, it doesn't mean that he wins the numbers game since he clearly does not. Most people do not want to worship God. It's that simple. Satan gets great satisfaction and bragging rights out of that fact.

What he doesn't get is 100 certainty on that thanks to Jesus and everyone else who worshipped God on the basis of him being worthy of worship. You're correct that Satan does not need to do much of anything for most people. However, he focuses his attention on those that hate him since that is where the best gloating happens.

 

[jdogmoney]

No need to speculate. The Bible gives the answer.

So the angel Satan, who's on good enough terms with God to make a bet with him about Job, is the same character as the devil that tempts Jesus who is the same character as the Dragon in Revelations who is the same character as the talking snake from the book of Genesis?

All right, whatever. Let me ask you this: is Satan "active" today? Does he interact with mortals?

 

[Tawpgun]

Has anyone every read the Genesis story and thought of Stan as the good guy?

God creates the world, but humanity, Adam and Eve, are essentially "enslaved" in a paradise. They can feel no pain, they don't need to work for anything... its perfect. Too perfect. It's almost like God is giving man all this good stuff to keep man compliant.

But then Satan tempts Eve to eat from the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE. The tree of KNOWLEDGE. and in doing so free's Adam and Eve from their "Matrix Paradise" into the real world.

I always thought it was an interesting way of looking at it. Satan wants people to be free, despite how hard it might be, whereas God wishes to control them by giving them perfection.

 

[Uchip]

I agree unless their whining like junior was. Otherwise my life would be equally wasted not only being religious but talking to non-religious people for the heck of it.
.

your definition of whining is as shallow as your perception of reality
do you label anything you disagree with as whining?
the universe is far too big to believe in anthropic deities

 

[JGS]

your definition of whining is as shallow as your perception of reality
do you label anything you disagree with as whining?
the universe is far too big to believe in anthropic deities

I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said whining. I should have simply left it at insulting.

 

[JGS]

So the angel Satan, who's on good enough terms with God to make a bet with him about Job, is the same character as the devil that tempts Jesus who is the same character as the Dragon in Revelations who is the same character as the talking snake from the book of Genesis?

All right, whatever. Let me ask you this: is Satan "active" today? Does he interact with mortals?

Now you're just ignoring me which is OK.

Scripturally the answer is yes, but again there's no reason to "preach to the converted". Satan's focus is on worshippers which is the obvious link between the Job & Jesus. The only difference is one knew his challenger and the other one didn't. The purpose is the same- to turn people who rely on God to no longer rely on him.

It's the same in present day

 

[jdogmoney]

Now you're just ignoring me which is OK.

Scripturally the answer is yes, but again there's no reason to "preach to the converted". Satan's focus is on worshippers which is the obvious link between the Job & Jesus. The only difference is one knew his challenger and the other one didn't. The purpose is the same- to turn people who rely on God to no longer rely on him.

It's the same in present day

Actually, I was curious what Games Analyst thought.

It's a bad thing to not rely on God?

 

[Chaplain]

So the angel Satan, who's on good enough terms with God to make a bet with him about Job, is the same character as the devil that tempts Jesus who is the same character as the Dragon in Revelations who is the same character as the talking snake from the book of Genesis?

Yup

All right, whatever. Let me ask you this: is Satan "active" today? Does he interact with mortals?

He is behind the scenes directing all of the evil in the world. Entertainment, Politics and Education are where he attacks the most (at least in non third world countries).

Ephesians 2

You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

2 Timothy 2

Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

This is why evil is no accepted as good and good is now looked upon as evil.

 

[Chaplain]

Now you're just ignoring me which is OK.

Scripturally the answer is yes, but again there's no reason to "preach to the converted". Satan's focus is on worshippers which is the obvious link between the Job & Jesus. The only difference is one knew his challenger and the other one didn't. The purpose is the same- to turn people who rely on God to no longer rely on him.

It's the same in present day

I would like to add, according to certain scriptures, Satan controls those who do not know God. The Bible says we are in either to camps. 1. We either belong to God or 2. We belong to Satan.

How can a person tell which side they are on? What is the master passion of their life? It is either serving God or serving self. Pretty simple to tell.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I have been lurking this thread for ages, and I really enjoy JGS's responses. Just so there is no miscommunication, I'm an Atheist. I have a few questions that I would like for someone to respond to (JGS, you usually respond in an intelligent manner so hopefully you will give it a go), and possibly some follow up questions.

1: What evidence (if any) persuaded you that there was an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator?

2: What evidence (if any) could be presented that would change your mind about this creators existence?

3: Where do you stand on the concept of original sin? Is it 'just' to hold humanity responsible for the 'sins' of our ancestors? If so, why?

4: Is evolution a product of God or purely a natural process? Does evolutionary theory ring true for you as a theist, and if so, where does God fit in with this theory?

5: What is your concept of hell? Is it the traditional 'fire and brimstone' realm of torment, or the eternal absence from God's grace? In either case, what circumstances would cause someone to end up in this place?

I assume these may have been covered before (and I apologise if it is becoming monotonous) but I'm interested on a Christian perspective. Cheers.

 

[Ultima ratio regum]

Not really, you are your soul.

You are immortal.

But what is you?

Or 'i'?

You are a pattern, an idea, pure information given flesh.

For someone like me, who's religion is basically serial experiments lain. You will find that the bible is but an incomplete divinely inspired work no different than the illiad or the odyssey.

The work of highest divine inspiration higher than any religious text are alice in wonderland and the wizard of oz. But who will stand and be told that their belief in islam, christianity, Buddhist, etc are but incomplete versions of the one truth.

The single truth, the historical underlying truth. Physical law states that the bible is full of BS. No miracle ever took place, and physical law is the absolute truth, the creation the direct word of god contradicting the word of man even divinely inspired in the bible.

The nature of god

 

[Chaplain]

You are a pattern, an idea, pure information given flesh.

For someone like me, who's religion is basically serial experiments lain. You will find that the bible is but an incomplete divinely inspired work no different than the illiad or the odyssey.

The work of highest divine inspiration higher than any religious text are alice in wonderland and the wizard of oz. But who will stand and be told that their belief in islam, christianity, Buddhist, etc are but incomplete versions of the one truth.

The single truth, the historical underlying truth. Physical law states that the bible is full of BS. No miracle ever took place, and physical law is the absolute truth, the creation the direct word of god contradicting the word of man even divinely inspired in the bible.

You have made up your mind on what is true. How can God help you when you have shut him out with your mind?

 

[Ultima ratio regum]

I have been lurking this thread for ages, and I really enjoy JGS's responses. Just so there is no miscommunication, I'm an Atheist. I have a few questions that I would like for someone to respond to (JGS, you usually respond in an intelligent manner so hopefully you will give it a go), and possibly some follow up questions.

1: What evidence (if any) persuaded you that there was an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator?

See frank tipler, read between the lines and connect final fantasy, never ending story, the illiad, science, logic, physics, phylosophy, mathematics, and all possible belief systems on a rational basis.

2: What evidence (if any) could be presented that would change your mind about this creators existence?

Disprove evolution, the hyper-evolution algorithm, general intelligence. Prove that evolution(which equals intelligence in matter) is wrong and does not exist.

Evolution and spontaneous order of the universe, the von neumman probe. Princess Schala=God, final princess final castle = perfect solution = survival= life defeating death for all eternity.

3: Where do you stand on the concept of original sin? Is it 'just' to hold humanity responsible for the 'sins' of our ancestors? If so, why?

Original sin is a metaphor for temptation and the existence of evil out of necessity for the world to exist.

4: Is evolution a product of God or purely a natural process? Does evolutionary theory ring true for you as a theist, and if so, where does God fit in with this theory?

Evolution leads to organization of the universe under the rule of life. it is the truth, that unifies science and mathematics, order and disorder, and allows philosophy beyond good and evil.

5: What is your concept of hell? Is it the traditional 'fire and brimstone' realm of torment, or the eternal absence from God's grace? In either case, what circumstances would cause someone to end up in this place?

Hell exists both physically and metaphorically, even innocents can go to hell for no reason. Imagine if hitler or some evil dictator got into power, godlike power innocents would suffer needlessly. It is distopia like utopia an unlikely possibility even in the real world, aka see north korea.

I assume these may have been covered before (and I apologise if it is becoming monotonous) but I'm interested on a Christian perspective. Cheers.

I'm a catholic, but also I'm a satanist priest. Venus, the morning star the evening star, the perfect woman, the brain, artificial computer wireless god of the internet. Green tears, being the lines of code, philosopher's stone. Artificial General Intelligence given to a machine, the construction of an artificial god by man.

 

[Ultima ratio regum]

You have made up your mind on what is true. How can God help you when you have shut him out with your mind?

You cannot defeat my arguments, my logic is flawless. It is machine logic, the result of an artificial evolutionary general algorithm.

 

[Slightly Live]

Ultima ratio regum is talking shit guys, don't feed the troll.

 

[Shanadeus]

It's no surprise that we have a lot of religious members on this board but something I've noticed lately is that there's a significant amount of people in this group that is unsure of their beliefs and that gravitate towards either religious or atheist threads - in hopes of getting their beliefs supported and their faith reaffirmed or to perhaps, subconsciously, get help admitting that they don't really believe in their chosen religion.

The reason I'm posting this is because I believe that we can take a more active role to help these people

Basically,what we need is some unbiased and non-judgemental way for these religious lurkers to discuss their doubts regarding their beliefs without being told why they should continue to believe.

If this should be kept in a seperate thread then we could gather up all the arguments on the validity and flaws of a religion so that these religious lurkers would have an easier time to "de-convert".

But my proposed system with this post is an anonymous sort of mentor system.

My first thought was to set up a mail account that religious gaffers can discreetly mail their doubts (much like ronito's confession thread) to but the problem with such a solution is that they'd lose out on the back-and-forth debate that have helped people to choose not to be religious here on these boards.

Which brings us to the mentor system I've devised:

_____________________________

The OMMD-system​

Open Minded Mentor/Doubter-system​

Mentors send an anonymous PM to me detailing their past experiences with the de-conversion process and get listed on a secret list of mentors if they wish to remain anonymous or they can openly volunteer to be a mentor in this thread or a new one if we go for that.

Doubters either send an anonymous PM to me and detail their particular circumstances if they so wish to so that I can then pair them up with a mentor or they can directly PM an open volunteer that will help them through with their doubts without trying to re-enforce their beliefs.
_____________________________

Publicly listed Mentors:

_____________________________

And there you have it!
I've put a lot of thought into this system and if someone think that this deserve it's own thread then feel free to copy the above for the new thread.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Just got accused of being an atheist and listening to whispers by the devil when I asked a family member about a seeming paradox between the omniscience of God and the purpose of our existence. He understood that my question was logical and fair, but he emphasised it as being dangerous and instead went on to talk about something loosely related. Whenever a deep question, where there is no apparent answer in a verse, nor one can can be applied with using standard narratives, it seems to be beyond some people. You can literally see the confusion in their eyes - a question that they can't answer, makes complete logical sense, and because of that dismiss it out of hand and attack the one who is asking the question. And no, this wasn't some undercover reporter working for an atheist religious magazine grilling a man of God, but rather a family member or a friend.

A simple "I don't know" would suffice, but once the weight of the question dawns on them, it's by default influences from the devil. Annoys the heck out of me. This fuels an environment where there is a lack of intellectual discussion within the context of theology in some cultures. The idea of broadening your understanding and knowledge is severely undermined if it goes beyond the scope of what is comfortable and answerable.

 

[jaxword]

Just got accused of being an atheist and listening to whispers by the devil when I asked a family member about a seeming paradox between the omniscience of God and the purpose of our existence. He understood that my question was logical and fair, but he emphasised it as being dangerous and instead went on to talk about something loosely related. Whenever a deep question, where there is no apparent answer in a verse, nor one can can be applied with using standard narratives, it seems to be beyond some people. You can literally see the confusion in their eyes - a question that they can't answer, makes complete logical sense, and because of that dismiss it out of hand and attack the one who is asking the question. And no, this wasn't some undercover reporter working for an atheist religious magazine grilling a man of God, but rather a family member or a friend.

A simple "I don't know" would suffice, but once the weight of the question dawns on them, it's by default influences from the devil. Annoys the heck out of me. This fuels an environment where there is a lack of intellectual discussion within the context of theology in some cultures. The idea of broadening your understanding and knowledge is severely undermined if it goes beyond the scope of what is comfortable and answerable.

Your experience here is likely similar to many atheists and a source of a lot of the bitterness, especially online.

 

[JGS]

Well it's not really a paradox.

However, questions are good provided they are honest and not really just a ploy to prove one's own inteligence. The omniscience debate is a good example actually (Not meaning Meus but generic arguments regarding it).

This is often the bitterness thing against atheist since many of them on the internet think they know more than the believer. The negative response to that kind of attitude is justified imo.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Well it's not really a paradox.

However, questions are good provided they are honest and not really just a ploy to prove one's own inteligence. The omniscience debate is a good example actually (Not meaning Meus but generic arguments regarding it).

This is often the bitterness thing against atheist since many of them on the internet think they know more than the believer. The negative response to that kind of attitude is justified imo.

It doesn't involve just questions but e.g. any discussion where, for the sake of argument I have to refer to other religious doctrines, they don't want to know. In fact, they respond as if I insulted them by thinking they'd be interested to hear of differing views (from a religious perspective) on something. There are many intelligent people in this house hold and they make good points on other topics, but when it comes to religion; they concede that ability and readily admit to adopting an attitude where do they not discuss such things in fear of ending up questioning them. That's the crux of the matter. A question some how translates to questioning your faith.

 

[jaxword]

Well it's not really a paradox.

However, questions are good provided they are honest and not really just a ploy to prove one's own inteligence. The omniscience debate is a good example actually (Not meaning Meus but generic arguments regarding it).

This is often the bitterness thing against atheist since many of them on the internet think they know more than the believer. The negative response to that kind of attitude is justified imo.

You should quote who you're replying to for clarity's sake.

In any case, I was referring to the bitterness OF the atheists that they express online, since real life, i.e. conservative parents and other factors prevent that kind of venting. Not the attacking religious side.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Is cruelty to animals a sin in Christianity?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Is cruelty to animals a sin in Christianity?

Not in so many words.

 

[Gileadxv]

It depends on how you define cruelty. There are some vegetarians who consider eating meat to be an act of cruelty. From a Biblical perspective, Jesus states that our hearts indict us prior to any action we may take. So if a person is treating an animal with a rage or cruelty or malice that stems from their heart, then yes, they are acting in sin.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Not in so many words.

Is there any obligation upon Christians to take care of the environment, in the way that 'environment' is normally meant.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

*Moved from Christian Thread as this thread is more appropriate for debate.

The two most important questions I must ask before proceeding with a discussion. Thanks to the Theists who have already responded to my previous questions. I added in logical argument thanks to Ottomanscribe positing that position.

1: What evidence (if any), or logical argument persuaded you that there was an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator?

2: What evidence (if any), or logical argument could be presented that would change your mind about this creators existence?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Is there any obligation upon Christians to take care of the environment, in the way that 'environment' is normally meant.

Yes.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Yes.

Where is this obligation elaborated?

 

[CF_Fighter]

Is there any obligation upon Christians to take care of the environment, in the way that 'environment' is normally meant.

It varies across denominations. Some Christians believe that because we were given dominance over the world and everything in it we should work to preserve it. God did tell Adam to "Keep and dress" the Garden. Others believe that we have a free pass more or less because we were given dominance over everything.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Where is this obligation elaborated?

well I mean a casual reading of Genesis 1 or Psalms 24 makes that clear.

The God of the Bible put man here and give him a job: to take care of the place. In fact, that was mankind's FIRST job: To take care of God's creation. The onus is actually on someone to prove that God's position on man's role as caretaker of The Earth has somehow been reversed, rather than the other way around.

It varies across denominations. Some Christians believe that because we were given dominance over the world and everything in it we should work to preserve it. God did tell Adam to "Keep and dress" the Garden. Others believe that we have a free pass more or less because we were given dominance over everything.

that's simply not biblical. and it's not rooted in a spirit of love. and whether something is rooted in love is really the best tool we have to discern what is right and what is wrong.

that's the same spirit that oppressed women. a lack of understanding secondary to a lack of redemptive mindstate and a lack of love.