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[Freshmaker]

You know what? I am really horrible at the game--I'm learning, jackass. I suppose I should pour one out for all my homies that have fallen to Seth. Oh wait, then not only would I suck, but you'd call me racist too.

Edit: And he sure as hell does block. Maybe you were playing with 1 round matches--the first round he hardly blocks at all. You can fireball spam him and he just walks into them. After that round he goes apeshit insane.

Seth's main AI trick in round 2 and 3 is to start doing a lot of focus attacks. You can destroy him up close simply by throwing a lot.

 

[y2dvd]

I should be getting my replaced ps3 in today. UPS don't let me down!

It's gonna be a pain to do all the hard challenges again. @_@

 

[slayn]

stuff

Makes sense. Its pretty clear enough people have problems that seth should probably be toned down in a patch at some point.

 

[Arde5643]

I'm sorry, I'm not really whining here--I just took offense to the dude being an ass about how horrible I am.

I just got the game, haven't really played SF in 10 years, and even then I just dabbled on Genesis. So I'm learning to play the game by playing through arcade with Chun Li and leaving my modes open to people joining to beat my ass.

So to reiterate: I'm just playing to have fun and I agree with the other posters who are confused as to why 'easy' which was fun up until Seth, turns into a total frustrating ass-rapery. Sure, that's the "fighting game thing" but I don't like getting stoked on things just because "that's how they always were."

I know I can turn it to easiest and 1 round fights if I want to unlock dudes, but I don't want to do that: I want to play through and feel like I'm slowly getting better. Hitting a wall is frustrating, and I was just empathizing with others in the same situation as me.

The AI is pretty useless to try to get better with the game. Going through a couple of times starting out is fine, but trying to beat the AI is useless since it doesn't help you prepare against real people at all.

Get on random ranked matches online instead - you'll get beat there by tons of scrubs and be forced to learn attack patterns, zoning, offensive and defensive strat, as well as spamming moves that other scrubs cannot counter against.

After you get tired of playing scrubs in low ranked BP matches, go on player matches with perhaps some rare players you found online who actually are really good or go online with some Gaffers. Player matches usually help you better in leveling up your skills as well as increasing your character match-up knowledge than ranked matches.

Having some ranked matches is always fun once in a while though since you have BP on the line.

 

[dankir]

TE STICK = Fuck yeah!!!

Just played for 2 hours, wow this thing is amazing. Much easier to pull off moves and combos.

Set some people straight with it online too

Goodshit MarkMan.

 

[mYm|17|]

gg's AZ Greg................man, that Vega is nasty. I had no idea how to counter that throw and wall dive. That claw poke was giving me a headache as well, such a long reach

thanks for playin

 

[slayn]

Played some more matches with dfyb. Always interesting to play a good fuerte.

Is it just me though or does fuerte seem kind of weak against characters that don't have to play his wakeup game? When I played as characters I wasn't sure how to wake up with the mixups were making me tear my hair out. But then if I picked someone like akuma who could just reversal teleport out every time it turned the entire match around and I felt like I was in complete control.

 

[Augemitbutter]

I think I've killed my saturn USB pad. Would a madcatz fightpad be a good replacement?

anything wrong with your d-pad?

mine broke yesterday: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15214901&postcount=24926

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

The AI is pretty useless to try to get better with the game. Going through a couple of times starting out is fine, but trying to beat the AI is useless since it doesn't help you prepare against real people at all.

Get on random ranked matches online instead - you'll get beat there by tons of scrubs and be forced to learn attack patterns, zoning, offensive and defensive strat, as well as spamming moves that other scrubs cannot counter against.

After you get tired of playing scrubs in low ranked BP matches, go on player matches with perhaps some rare players you found online who actually are really good or go online with some Gaffers. Player matches usually help you better in leveling up your skills as well as increasing your character match-up knowledge than ranked matches.

Having some ranked matches is always fun once in a while though since you have BP on the line.

Can you go into negative BP? Because I would. =P

You guys definitely make good points--but I am literally trying to learn the basic basics. I have it set to player matches interrupt arcade and every couple of minutes I get into a game and get worked over a few times, then I go back to arcade for a fight or two and cycle through it again. I'll change it to ranked and see what that does...

 

[slayn]

Can you go into negative BP? Because I would. =P

You guys definitely make good points--but I am literally trying to learn the basic basics. I have it set to player matches interrupt arcade and every couple of minutes I get into a game and get worked over a few times, then I go back to arcade for a fight or two and cycle through it again. I'll change it to ranked and see what that does...

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Until you are at the point where you can execute the moves you want to, when you want to, I don't think there is anything wrong with playing arcade mode.

You have a reach a base comfort level with a character before worrying about specifi tactics, matchups, etc.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

anything wrong with your d-pad?

mine broke yesterday: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15214901&postcount=24926

Are these pads easily broken or something? I was planning on getting one soon.

 

[AZ Greg]

gg's AZ Greg................man, that Vega is nasty. I had no idea how to counter that throw and wall dive. That claw poke was giving me a headache as well, such a long reach

thanks for playin

GGs.

A couple of things about your Balrog. I thought you could have utilized the headbutt a lot more. Of the 10 or so fights vs. Balrog I think I saw it 2 or 3 times. You had some opportunities to add it onto the end of a combo for more damage. Which could have also given you the opportunity to go headbutt-->ultra. And at the very least, the headbutt would have allowed you to avoid my off the wall cross-ups. Usually, against Balrog, the headbutt makes my off the wall attacks, other than when I'm doing a combo, useless. The other thing is his overhead rush, not sure of the exact name. The move really tends to hurt my Vega since I tend to crouch a little too much. I don't think I saw that once.

We'll have to play again sometime, some of those matches were pretty intense, especially the comeback against Bison.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Learn your best anti-airs for each character you use so people cannot jump at you with out getting punished. From there find the best normal moves you have to pressure with and interrupt their attacks. Dont feel like you have to use every last attack that you have, just find the fastest ones with the most priority.

Try to push the opponent into a corner if at all possible to limit their options. Once you have them there, keep them there. Dont try to engage them, just stand a character width or so away from them and keep them there with whatever solid moves you have.

Focus on that, focus on having a game plan before each match and you should do a lot better.

Dude, my game plan is "Press buttons and have what I intended come out." and that's still a crapshoot at this point.
I just get blocked so much, but when I'm holding back I take damage (yes, I know about back-down to block low). I've figured some stuff out, and that's encouraging, it's just the repetition of losing the same way and not being able to figure some things out that gets frustrating. If I don't vent, I'll lose it.

 

[Shinjitsu]

lol, so I have to resort to cheese. =P Oh well.

Hey man, his cheese is worse than sweep cheese.=)

I had the same problems as you at first, I wanted to toss my joystick at my TV trying to unlock everyone:lol Eventually though I just resorted to sweep sweep sweep on that bastard with some other cheese added in...I can't even begin to tell you how mad I got trying to beat him with Gen.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Until you are at the point where you can execute the moves you want to, when you want to, I don't think there is anything wrong with playing arcade mode.

You have a reach a base comfort level with a character before worrying about specifi tactics, matchups, etc.

I finally managed to land my first kikoken -> super (I play Chun Li) in a match--sure, it was against the computer, but it was glorious.

I'm starting to get the hang of charge moves too. I'm anxious to start understanding the basic strategy though. When I watch matches, it is a lot of normal attacks and I still am very poor at judging which normal to use and when.

My psn ID is lasernot--if anyone wants to add me and beat up on my Chun Li, go ahead. I can use the practice. =D

 

[mYm|17|]

GGs.

A couple of things about your Balrog. I thought you could have utilized the headbutt a lot more. Of the 10 or so fights vs. Balrog I think I saw it 2 or 3 times. You had some opportunities to add it onto the end of a combo for more damage. Which could have also given you the opportunity to go headbutt-->ultra. And at the very least, the headbutt would have allowed you to avoid my off the wall cross-ups. Usually, against Balrog, the headbutt makes my off the wall attacks, other than when I'm doing a combo, useless. The other thing is his overhead rush, not sure of the exact name. The move really tends to hurt my Vega since I tend to crouch a little too much. I don't think I saw that once.

We'll have to play again sometime, some of those matches were pretty intense, especially the comeback against Bison.

yea definitely gotta play again. I'm still getting used to doing his headbutt on the joystick, I have a problem with the down up moves right now. Thanks for the tips.

I was definitely disappointed that I lost it that one time with Bison.............so terrible

 

[gutter_trash]

anything wrong with your d-pad?

mine broke yesterday: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15214901&postcount=24926

I broke one but I abused it and rage tossed it lots of times (HDR!!!!)
first time I busted one

 

[MoxManiac]

Who here agrees Capcom should've implemented a BP-per-character system? By that I mean, whenever you begin playing with a different character in Ranked Matches, you start afresh from 0 BP. This would imply the following:

1. You'd never lose the BP earned with your "main", which therefore nulifies any consequence to trying someone new.

2. Seeing as there are 20 different characters, there'd also be an according 20 ways to add to a "Total BP" value. This would provide a heightened incentive for people to commit themselves evenly, across the roster as a whole, in order to maximise that ultimate score.

3. You'd always play people of similar skill (around 0 BP) at a time when you're getting used to a new character.

4. The time spent playing with alternative styles could inspire people to take up a new "main" (ie. less Kens and more Dhalsims and Gens). It's a long shot, but every little helps.

You could argue that the Practise and Player Match modes serve as suitable intermediaries before the highly competitive realm of Ranked matches, and that'd be a reasonable point. However, besides offering that old school competitive element, you'd expect the game design to be conducive to variety and experimentation. Surely the best of both worlds is only a patch away?

From what I remember, for the arcade version of SF4, the BP system used there was per-character; you purchased some sort of card that kept track of your BP for that character through the network system. So it's not like it can't be done. Dunno why capcom did it the way they did with the home version, aside from laziness/apathy, I suppose.

 

[haunts]

BP per character would be awesome.. BUT ID RATHER HAVE LOBBIES.

 

[Shinjitsu]

BP per character would be awesome.. BUT ID RATHER HAVE LOBBIES.

I second this. Why isn't capcom taking user feedback for the Championship patch? Hell, why haven't we heard anything about it yet.=/

 

[haunts]

I second this. Why isn't capcom taking user feedback for the Championship patch? Hell, why haven't we heard anything about it yet.=/

Having to ditch a friend of mine who is sick to play another friend who is sick is just retarded. Why cant we all just rotate in one lobby!?! AUUGGH

 

[Arde5643]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Until you are at the point where you can execute the moves you want to, when you want to, I don't think there is anything wrong with playing arcade mode.

You have a reach a base comfort level with a character before worrying about specifi tactics, matchups, etc.

I'm not sure I really agree with that. Sure, learning to execute moves and such will work better in arcade against AI, but why not just use training or challenge mode for that purpose then?

Going against other players forces you to come up with a solution yourself, either by trying to find a use for normals or specials that a character has. It also forces you to build a basic zoning game that you feel most comfortable with your character. Other players will also show some basic attack patterns a newbie can start incorporating to his arsenal - from block strings, focus attacks options, when to backdash and such.

None of this is in the arcade AI anywhere since they always fall for the same pattern and mind games don't work with them at all.

I wasted my time with arcade for a week or so when I started learning the game thinking that I'll have some sort of basic knowledge of the game after going through the normal modes in the arcade a few times.
Tried online and I got trashed badly in scrubby random ranked matches against the scrubbiest opponents who use the scrubbiest tactics.

Street Fighter AI is useless and always has been - never use it to gauge your skill unless you just want to train combos.

 

[Shinjitsu]

Having to ditch a friend of mine who is sick to play another friend who is sick is just retarded. Why cant we all just rotate in one lobby!?! AUUGGH

I'd kill for lobbies with the option to watch matches while you wait.

This game would be PERFECT with that imo.

 

[Won]

Played some more matches with dfyb. Always interesting to play a good fuerte.

Is it just me though or does fuerte seem kind of weak against characters that don't have to play his wakeup game? When I played as characters I wasn't sure how to wake up with the mixups were making me tear my hair out. But then if I picked someone like akuma who could just reversal teleport out every time it turned the entire match around and I felt like I was in complete control.

Depends. With Akuma you have to stop the run and slide and he is back on the ground. It's just another layer of the wake up game. Most of the teleporters with escape wake up also come with low enough hp to deal with it. A Dhalsim that doesn't teleport on wakeup against Fuerte is dead before he can say "Yoga!". (that said, I still have to figure out how to punish the teleport correctly. )

But yeah, it is the main reason why I cry so much about Blanka. You can't really run, you can't really play the wake up game and he has pretty nice stamina. Same thing goes for Honda, but I rarely see one online.

 

[ultim8p00]

Wow, playing with more skilled players! What a difference! I thought I'll get my ass whooped, but it makes the game so much more fun. I was seriously getting tired of playing people who would just jump all over the screen every where and just randomly do dps. Just got my BP to 1044! So awesome.

It's kinda funny how much SFIV is about the mind though. You play, and you feel like you are playing well and on top of your game, but just the fact that someone choose an odd character, like Honda, Cammy, or El Fuerte, can completely mess you up psychologically.

Played this one El Fuerte guy and I did not know how to handle him at all, and I thought he was god lol. But when I calmed down and stopped freaking out, I was able to beat him pretty consistently.

 

[Shinjitsu]

Wow, playing with more skilled players! What a difference! I thought I'll get my ass whooped, but it makes the game so much more fun. I was seriously getting tired of playing people who would just jump all over the screen every where and just randomly doing dps. Just got my BP to 1044! So awesome.

Yep, unless I just feel like sitting in arcade and waiting for someone to join I always put it on Higher Skill, matches are more enjoyable, and when I lose I feel like I'm actually LEARNING something. Nothing pisses me off more than playing like shit and losing to a flowchart Ken.

 

[Won]

Wow, playing with more skilled players! What a difference! I thought I'll get my ass whooped, but it makes the game so much more fun. I was seriously getting tired of playing people who would just jump all over the screen every where and just randomly doing dps. Just got my BP to 1044! So awesome.

People still jump around at 3000 BP. Don't get your hopes up.

 

[Danielsan]

I went ahead and ordered the Sega pad seeing as most people on this board dislike the Hori Fighting Stick 3, I never used an arcade stick before and the sega pad was 3x as cheap.

Never tried one of these pads before but I've heard nothing but good things. Hopefully the d-pad is a bit friendlier on the thumb.

 

[Augemitbutter]

Are these pads easily broken or something? I was planning on getting one soon.

mine broke just after 9 days. i dont know if its my luck or if other people will get the same experience a few months down. i can safely say i've lost all trust in these things after looking inside the broken parts.

I broke one but I abused it and rage tossed it lots of times (HDR!!!!)
first time I busted one

thats harsh. i didnt toss mine and it broke anyway.

 

[slayn]

I'm not sure I really agree with that. Sure, learning to execute moves and such will work better in arcade against AI, but why not just use training or challenge mode for that purpose then?

Going against other players forces you to come up with a solution yourself, either by trying to find a use for normals or specials that a character has. It also forces you to build a basic zoning game that you feel most comfortable with your character. Other players will also show some basic attack patterns a newbie can start incorporating to his arsenal - from block strings, focus attacks options, when to backdash and such.

You're thinking from an intermediate skill level. Not 'I can't do a dragon punch' skill level or 'I don't know what standing medium kick looks like for my character until after I press the button' skill level. And training mode is unbelievably boring for someone who doesn't want to spend time practicing and instead wants to play the game they spent $60 on.

 

[Sanjay]

People still jump around at 3000 BP. Don't get your hopes up.

Wait till he meets the shotos who just jump upwards in the corner and turtle there the whole game.

 

[Shinjitsu]

Wait till he meets the shotos who just jump upwards in the corner and turtle there the whole game.

I'm not amazing or anything, but I'd say I'm a decent player trying to improve, but I actually ENJOY the turtle play style. I main Balrog and Gouken (I'd like to think that Gouken isn't really a shoto even though his moves have the same command inputs ) Nothing wrong with high level players using a turtle style imo, I actualy LOVE playing players that do more than spam more than FIERCE DRAGONPUNCH.

Different strokes for different folks i guess.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Wait till he meets the shotos who just jump upwards in the corner and turtle there the whole game.

That's, actually a really tough fight for me.
I know how to handle people coming at me, mostly. But I have no idea how to handle that with Sakura. I can only counter fireballs with my own for so long until I mess up and take a hit. And jumping is great but that's the same thing, I'm eventually going to make a mistake. If I go in, I get hit, if I stay back I get hit. It's a losing game from the start. No idea what to even do.

 

[gutter_trash]

GGs slayn!
Your Blanka is your top, keep him even if his Ultra is a bitch.
Blanka's Ultra has insane chip damage, no way to jump it lol
my Bison is sad

 

[NorrenRadd]

Who here agrees Capcom should've implemented a BP-per-character system? By that I mean, whenever you begin playing with a different character in Ranked Matches, you start afresh from 0 BP. This would imply the following:

1. You'd never lose the BP earned with your "main", which therefore nulifies any consequence to trying someone new.

2. Seeing as there are 20 different characters, there'd also be an according 20 ways to add to a "Total BP" value. This would provide a heightened incentive for people to commit themselves evenly, across the roster as a whole, in order to maximise that ultimate score.

3. You'd always play people of similar skill (around 0 BP) at a time when you're getting used to a new character.

4. The time spent playing with alternative styles could inspire people to take up a new "main" (ie. less Kens and more Dhalsims and Gens). It's a long shot, but every little helps.

You could argue that the Practise and Player Match modes serve as suitable intermediaries before the highly competitive realm of Ranked matches, and that'd be a reasonable point. However, besides offering that old school competitive element, you'd expect the game design to be conducive to variety and experimentation. Surely the best of both worlds is only a patch away?

5. Theoretically fewer people quitting early because they will be less worried about BP on some characters.

 

[Duke Togo]

anything wrong with your d-pad?

mine broke yesterday: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15214901&postcount=24926

Yeah, my d-pad randomly doesn't register "up", and when I opened it up part of the casing had just broken around one of the screws. I can't seem to get it to consistently work, which doesn't help my game much. :/

Does anybody know how the madcatz pads stack up quality wise? Is everyone generally happy with theirs?

 

[slayn]

GGs slayn!
Your Blanka is your top, keep him even if his Ultra is a bitch.
Blanka's Ultra has insane chip damage, no way to jump it lol
my Bison is sad

Your honda was smacking me around pretty good. I got so frustrated when you got on that winning streak I just kept immediately going to blanka in the character select screen and saying "again!" at my tv.

 

[gutter_trash]

Your honda was smacking me around pretty good. I got so frustrated when you got on that winning streak I just kept immediately going to blanka in the character select screen and saying "again!" at my tv.

hahahaha
I'm more disciplined with Honda than with the other characters, fuck Blanka's Ultra LOL

 

[CO_Andy]

Latest SF4 tier list as presented by Seth Killian

I'd like to see these awesome Seth players in action.

 

[slayn]

Rose at the bottom? I wouldn't have expected that.

I also don't understand why blanka loses to sagat. I think that is one of the easiest matchups I come up against amongst the high tier characters.

though it does agree with me that fighting boxer sucks donkey balls

In fact as a blanka player I agree with basically everything listed in his row except for sagat. Unless there is something I'm missing, that one feels in my favor.

 

[Ferrio]

Rose at the bottom? I wouldn't have expected that.
.

Not surprised in the least here, she has lots of negatives. Here's hoping for a boost come championship.

 

[Shinjitsu]

Latest SF4 tier list as presented by Seth Killian
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/69adb36df9e109b358176431da4b0bd56g.jpg

I'd like to see these awesome Seth players in action.

Very interesting, I'd like to look at this list again in six months to a year, I'd also really love to see the difference In different regions.

 

[Oichi]

I wouldn't believe this tier list if I was you.... SRK already had a lengthy discussion about it, and the "translated" version of the tier list and the actual Japanese version are almost completely different. In the translated one Sakura has 5:5 matchups across the board... in the Japanese one it's almost all 3s and 2s.:lol

And all of this data is coming from Japanese wiki/discussion boards, which is basically like GAF and SRK debating tiers.

 

[EraldoCoil]

Rose is low, but i don't think she should be that low, as my main she lacks good combos, a good wake up, can't juggle into her ultra. but her pokes are great, has great range and does a decent amount of damage. i'd put her in the low B range. But i'm sure Seth knows a shitload more than me and has resons to have her that low

Edit: didn't see Oichi's post, i'll just take this tier list with a grain of salt

Edit 2: Ah i see, thanks UC1

 

[CPS2]

But i'm sure Seth knows a shitload more than me and has resons to have her that low

Seth didn't make that tier list btw, he just linked to it. As Oichi said, it's from a Japanese wiki and the translated version is out of date.

 

[MIMIC]

GGs slayn!
Your Blanka is your top, keep him even if his Ultra is a bitch.
Blanka's Ultra has insane chip damage, no way to jump it lol
my Bison is sad

I love Blanka's Ultra. When I'm about to chip kill someone, they always try to jump OVER it (towards me). They continue to forget that Blanka jumps in the air with it

 

[slayn]

I love Blanka's Ultra. When I'm about to chip kill someone, they always try to jump OVER it (towards me). They continue to forget that Blanka jumps in the air with it

The best is when a dhalsim tries to jump straigt up and teleport behind you... and slowly foats down to the ground and lands on you while you were just spinning there holding px3

 

[MIMIC]

The best is when a dhalsim tries to jump straigt up and teleport behind you... and slowly foats down to the ground and lands on you while you were just spinning there holding px3

:lol

 

[SapientWolf]

I wouldn't believe this tier list if I was you.... SRK already had a lengthy discussion about it, and the "translated" version of the tier list and the actual Japanese version are almost completely different. In the translated one Sakura has 5:5 matchups across the board... in the Japanese one it's almost all 3s and 2s.:lol

And all of this data is coming from Japanese wiki/discussion boards, which is basically like GAF and SRK debating tiers.

The problem with tiers is that most people are already used to fighting the top tier characters. You can easily win a match with a low tier character because people don't have a lot of experience fighting against them.

 

[Shinjitsu]

Jesus, 5 matches in a row with rage quitters, funny thing is they were all good matches that were very very close, wtf is wrong with people.=(