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[MightyHedgehog]

I guess I understand why some are still fawning over this for its visuals and attention to detail, but that action footage was dull as dishwater. Feels like it will be a dry, no-surprises mix of Gears/Uncharted cover shooter gameplay and the constant controlled cinematic interaction of Heavy Rain/Beyond: Two Souls.

 

[Hanmik]

Well, looks promising

hmm looks like one arm is ripped off...

but the thing is.. I played the demo again last night. And I was at the kitchen part, and I tried everything possible to do some damage to them. But nothing happened.. I checked all the bodies afterwards, they looked like they did before I shot them. I tried putting LOTS of bullets into the dead bodies, and only a little blood splatter appeared, and some of the bodies didn´t even react to the bullets.. it was nothing like I imagined it.. maybe the section before is different.. will try again tonight then.
Ohh and almost all the stuff in the kitchen can be shot, but it´s not much that happens to the stuff you shoot. I picked up this crazy weapon that can shoot salt (or something like that) as a secondary fire, and shot at everything in the kitchen. The results are something else..
- Vegetables explode and dissappear, same with lots of other small stuff.
- A whole bread barely moves, it takes ALOT of shots to move it, but it does move.
- Smaller breads or cakes fly around, but seem to dissappear in the room if the are moved to far away from the start.
- Pots and pans fly around and make ALOT of noise.. It doesn´t look like they get deformed or get bulletholes, but you can shoot the lid of a big pot.
- Larger objects (like the half pigs on hooks) barely reacts to shots. And the shots leave no marks at all.
- The scenery itself seems indestructable.. I couldn´t smash or dent anything besides the smaller objects...

But remember this is an old build, so it isn´t representive of the final product. Lots can change.. this build actually has a decent amount of bugs and glitches. Sometimes the voices do not follow the cutscnes at all, which looks really funny. And I had some other funny bugs..

 

[travisbickle]

hmm looks like one arm is ripped off...

but the thing is.. I played the demo again last night. And I was at the kitchen part, and I tried everything possible to do some damage to them. But nothing happened.. I checked all the bodies afterwards, they looked like they did before I shot them. I tried putting LOTS of bullets into the dead bodies, and only a little blood splatter appeared, and some of the bodies didn´t even react to the bullets.. it was nothing like I imagined it.. maybe the section before is different.. will try again tonight then.

In one of the playthroughs, the player shot a guys head to mush and stared at his headless corpse, but I wouldn't be surprised that you can't cut up the bodies after they're dead.

 

[Hanmik]

In one of the playthroughs, the player shot a guys head to mush and stared at his headless corpse, but I wouldn't be surprised that you can't cut up the bodies after they're dead.

yeah could be it.. Maybe only the shotgun can do that kind of damage.. going to try again with the shotgun tonight.

 

[dofry]

They really need to work on the camera. The player can't see around the corner quick enough to react to anything and renders him vulnerable.

Yeah, that doesn't work at all. Blocks everything.

I'm thinking maybe the player leaves the corner the "wrong" way. In so many games you can leave the corner properly using forward + X or something like that. If you use just X or press left + X, this shit happens. Should be fixed as there are so many games that fail in enter/exit cover.

But, it's not the final game and I haven't had the chance to play it, so I'll just assume things are fixed in the final version

 

[kingkenny76]

I am trying to wrap my head around the negativity the game has garnered. It hasn't done anything that another TPS hasn't done before, the biggest difference is that it isn't hiding the fact it is intended as an extremely story-driven cinematic-like experience. It almost feels like people are still mad about those cinematic comments about fps.

Did Asura's Wrath get this much negativity for being largely a sweet anime show with gameplay sections?

Sony exclusive??

 

[-COOLIO-]

these graphics live up the reveal trailer and im very surprised by this.

 

[DieH@rd]

did they cut all gameplay sequence ? if yes why ?

Because that is the point of B-Roll.

I cannot believe a primarily previous handheld game developer has made what is essential one of the most beautiful games of all time. The technique they utilize puts black bars that remove some of the screen space, but it's a pretty clever approach since the image we do have is clear as a result. And the framerate mostly holds incredibly stable, something Ryse - the big XBO visual showcase - does not even come close to doing. On top of that, there is some psychopath AA going on, you can hunt for jaggies and find it if you look hard enough, but it's probably one of the most polished visual presentations in a long, long time, outside of the way Nintendo has been doing it on Wii U.

The character models are astonishing. Their facial animation is pretty good most of the time, but I personally thought there were a few rough patches here and there. The gun battles looked suitably intense, and had relatively decent breadth of options presented to you to take out the enemies. So, linear yes, but decent use of floor space to create an intense exchange in an otherwise inherently limited area.

The QTEs still annoy me, they look as bad as they do in every game. Also insta-kill steath segments be serious Ready at Dawn. Be serious. Delete that shit

IQ is spotless, except for some rare shadows. Sometimes there is shadow alliasing on Galahad's face [most likely when he receives self-shadowing from his eyebrow ] and some environment shadows are lowres.
http://i.imgur.com/PTnV4cm.jpg

But, I was told about the Diminishing Returns and how close this newgen is from the past one...
Have they lied to me ?!

Take it from big guy, he described jump to nextgen pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=p-eCak-9pCA#t=176

 

[valkyre]

PC here at work is kinda crappy, are there framerate dips in that footage? Or is it my work PC doing the magic?

 

[Dinjooh]

PC here at work is kinda crappy, are there framerate dips in that footage? Or is it my work PC doing the magic?

None from what I can see.

 

[JodokusK]

Most of the demo wasn't cutscenes/QTE. Plus I would rather have an interactive cut-scenes than a non-interactive cut-scene, wouldn't you agree. I think it's RAD's objective with those branching QTE - don't let you put the controller down, and give some form of control over a cut-scene that would simply be there without interaction in another game.

A valid criticism from previous showing of The Order was the ratio of cut-scenes / shooting. It's much better here, I felt the game was pretty well balanced. So if your criticism is about using the same "action" button whenever a QTE happens, it's bloody ridiculous. Plus there really ain't many QTEs in this demo, I could list them for you if you want... Protip, contextual takedown aren't QTEs.

I don't who you are writing for, but you certainly don't look very professional, and sounds much more laughable that actually using an action button...

I don't like telling people what they should or shouldn't do, but I'd advice you to not attack someone personally when you're discussing a game. You won't gain any knowledge about the game, you won't learn about the other person's perspective, you won't find the common ground and the differences that will help you better understand whether this game is something you'll enjoy or not. Attacking someone personally will only make you look like a child trying to win a discussion, instead of actually having one.

You can try to ignore what I said about the triangle-button basically becoming the 'push to win button', or it may not bother you, but that doesn't mean it won't bother other people - like me and my colleagues. I also never said that takedowns are QTE's, that's the problem: you do almost everything with triangle, so often it became laughable to us. Mocking someone for experiencing something is not a valid argument or a way to advance a discussion. The amount of 'push triangle to win' became laughable to us; this happened, it's a fact. This doesn't mean it's bad by definition, it means we believe it's bad, you might think it's great gameplay. Fair enough.

But other than that: we all thought the preview demo was really boring. At first we were in awe of the graphics, but then the demo just sort of... dragged along. Lots of slowly walking around, uninspired stealth sections with guards looking at walls, exposition that didn't grab any of us, and eventually the typical cover based shooting with boring AI that simply sticks its head out to get shot.

I'm no twitchy game who needs action right away (Fallout 1 and 2 are my favorite games ever), I'm not anti-cover based shooters (I played the first three Gears of War-games to death), I don't need instant clarity story-wise (Transistor is my favorite game of this year), I'm not hating on the awesome Victorian Steampunk setting (I think Arcanum's a great game)... maybe I honestly think it's a (beautiful) boring game. I know, differing opinions can be scary, but they exist. Maybe they can be used to gain some perspective?

That's what I do when writing reviews. We don't use numerical ratings, we close reviews with 'do play this if.../don't play this if...', both. So we try to think of reasons why someone SHOULD play the game, even if we don't like it. I don't like typical platformers any more (even though I love Super Mario World and Mario 64), but that doesn't mean that I will say every platformer is simply bad. I'll try to think why someone WOULD like it. Because we like trying to give useful advice, you know, by handling perspective correctly, instead of blindly admiring or hating on a game.

So with all that in mind: I honestly think The Order 1886 is boring (thus far). It might not do anything 'more wrong' than any other third-person shooter, but that doesn't mean it's automatically just as good. Just because a game contains all the same elements of a Mario platformer, doesn't mean it has the same quality and feel to it. Gameplay-wise, The Order feels like a very archaic and boring shooter that's not as good as a Gears of War. It's not as dynamic or fun, it's very straight forward 'popping heads in corridors'.

I honestly think The Order isn't exciting to play. You can mock someone for having a different opinion, you can (in case of those who haven't actually played it) blindly defend a game, it doesn't matter. There are people who think it's boring. I am one of them.

 

[theignoramus]

-Gorgeous graphics
-Immersive atmosphere
-Promising premise
-Interesting characters
-Solid gameplay
-Superb voice acting
-Beautiful soundtrack (from what we've heard)
-Nikola Tesla

Only thing I didn't like so far is the stealth, but it seems that won't play a big part of the game.
Aside from that, this game is looking better and better. The wait is painful.

Actually, I just watched Eurogamer's preview video and the gameplay looks anything but solid. It looks overwrought with handholding scenarios, QTEs, and cheap insta-deaths. Game is sensational to look at, but the way it plays seems really ominous. It doesnt look fun and if the entire game is a series of repetitive setpieces with little to no variation in gameplay, it could get ugly.

We played the preview and all thought it was REALLY boring. Also, what this footage doesn't show as much: the many, many, many times you have to push triangle to interact with things. At some point we were bursting out in laughter every time the prompt simply came up.

Yeah, between you and that (damning) video from Eurogamer, Im very cynical about this game now.

 

[Carn82]

I've been managing my expectations as in, "It's probably more like a Quantic Dream game than a great 3d person shooter". Works for me so far ;o

 

[JodokusK]

Actually, I just watched Eurogamer's preview video and the gameplay looks anything but solid. It looks overwrought with handholding scenarios, QTEs, and cheap insta-deaths. Game is sensational to look at, but the way it plays seems really ominous. It doesnt look fun and if the entire game is a series of repetitive setpieces with little to no variation in gameplay, it could get ugly.

Yeah, between you and that (damning) video from Eurogamer, Im very cynical about this game now.

That preview is a good summary of what we've been experiencing. The stealth, the QTE's, the boring combat, the hand holding... the game really never gripped any of us. The final product might be totally fine, but this is definitely a bad first impression. I'd wait for reviews and streams to see if it's your cup of tea (but then again, to me that's almost always the best way to handle games).

 

[jurec84]

I really like what I'm seing of this game with unofficial footage. Sony and RAD should overthink their markeing policy with this game, because the official trailers are not making them any favours.

 

[Always-honest]

hmm looks like one arm is ripped off...

but the thing is.. I played the demo again last night. And I was at the kitchen part, and I tried everything possible to do some damage to them. But nothing happened.. I checked all the bodies afterwards, they looked like they did before I shot them. I tried putting LOTS of bullets into the dead bodies, and only a little blood splatter appeared, and some of the bodies didn´t even react to the bullets.. it was nothing like I imagined it.. maybe the section before is different.. will try again tonight then.
Ohh and almost all the stuff in the kitchen can be shot, but it´s not much that happens to the stuff you shoot. I picked up this crazy weapon that can shoot salt (or something like that) as a secondary fire, and shot at everything in the kitchen. The results are something else..
- Vegetables explode and dissappear, same with lots of other small stuff.
- A whole bread barely moves, it takes ALOT of shots to move it, but it does move.
- Smaller breads or cakes fly around, but seem to dissappear in the room if the are moved to far away from the start.
- Pots and pans fly around and make ALOT of noise.. It doesn´t look like they get deformed or get bulletholes, but you can shoot the lid of a big pot.
- Larger objects (like the half pigs on hooks) barely reacts to shots. And the shots leave no marks at all.
- The scenery itself seems indestructable.. I couldn´t smash or dent anything besides the smaller objects...

But remember this is an old build, so it isn´t representive of the final product. Lots can change.. this build actually has a decent amount of bugs and glitches. Sometimes the voices do not follow the cutscnes at all, which looks really funny. And I had some other funny bugs..

Interesting, thanx. I was hoping for more stuff to really react more to shooting.

 

[martino]

Because that is the point of B-Roll.g[/url]

Ok didn't know b-roll had a filmic meaning (even more here).it explains a lot

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I am trying to wrap my head around the negativity the game has garnered. It hasn't done anything that another TPS hasn't done before, the biggest difference is that it isn't hiding the fact it is intended as an extremely story-driven cinematic-like experience. It almost feels like people are still mad about those cinematic comments about fps.

Did Asura's Wrath get this much negativity for being largely a sweet anime show with gameplay sections?

It's really confounding. I appreciate it has QTEs which some people don't like and it's a linear cinematic shooter, but it's not like Sony or RAD have ever been coy about these facts, and people are still complaining about this as though they expected something else. A lot of people are complaining that it's not trying to do anything new or special for the genre, but if that's the case I expect them to make the same complaint with other shooters like Uncharted 4, Gears 4 and Quantum Break. The Order just seems to be getting a disproportionate amount of hate from people who have completely ill-informed expectations from it.

 

[martino]

Interesting, thanx. I was hoping for more stuff to really react more to shooting.

Didn't they show real time metal deformation in a previous video ?

 

[RoboPlato]

Interesting, thanx. I was hoping for more stuff to really react more to shooting.

Could be related to the build. In the b-roll you can see a cabinet getting blown to pieces. Hopefully there's more in the full game.

 

[JodokusK]

It's really confounding. I appreciate it has QTEs which some people don't like and it's a linear cinematic shooter, but it's not like Sony or RAD have ever been coy about these facts, and people are still complaining about this as though they expected something else. A lot of people are complaining that it's not trying to do anything new or special for the genre, but if that's the case I expect them to make the same complaint with other shooters like Uncharted 4, Gears 4 and Quantum Break. The Order just seems to be getting a disproportionate amount of hate from people who have completely ill-informed expectations from it.

Faulty argument. People have played it and some really don't find it fun to play, period. Some reviewers might love it, some might not. But you can't claim it's all because of the expectations. Seriously, why are so many people trying to deflect negativity by saying it's their fault for feeling a certain way? It's like making someone try sushi, and when that person says he/she doesn't like it, claim it's their fault because they expected something else. No, they tasted it, they didn't like it.

Yes, you can set your mind to a certain type of entertainment. If I want a light hearted movie, I'm not gonna enjoy Schindler's List at that moment, while at some other point I will appreciate it. But changing your mindset isn't a guarantee you will like it. I love Gears of War and I knew going in this was looking to be very similar (gameplay-wise), but I don't like this. Gears of War is fun, this (to me) isn't. You might still like it for what it is and that's totally valid, but so is the opposite.

 

[Always-honest]

Could be related to the build. In the b-roll you can see a cabinet getting blown to pieces. Hopefully there's more in the full game.

Yes, i hope so.

Didn't they show real time metal deformation in a previous video ?

Not that i remember, but i'd love to see it.

 

[GIANKRATOS]

Wow that eurogamer preview... that really sounds like he wants to hate on the game... i was expecting a good preview and all i got is david cage jokes and "next gen gameplay"...

 

[Hanmik]

Could be related to the build. In the b-roll you can see a cabinet getting blown to pieces. Hopefully there's more in the full game.

where is that..? I could try to replicate it tonight.. the B-Roll is from the demo I have.

 

[EagleEyes]

Wow that eurogamer preview... that really sounds like he wants to hate on the game... i was expecting a good preview and all i got is david cage jokes and "next gen gameplay"...

I guess thats what you, specifically, got out of it. He had genuine concerns from an actual playthrough about the gameplay. He is obviously one that places gameplay before graphics and in that respect I could see someone being disappointed in this game. Don't get so bothered by someone's opinion.

 

[Loudninja]

I guess thats what you, specifically, got out of it. He had genuine concerns from an actual playthrough about the gameplay. He is obviously one that places gameplay before graphics and in that respect I could see someone being disappointed in this game. Don't get so bothered by someone's opinion.

So everyone that like it chooses graphics before gameplay?

Even IGN when they they did not like the first demo at all?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Wow that eurogamer preview... that really sounds like he wants to hate on the game... i was expecting a good preview and all i got is david cage jokes and "next gen gameplay"...

I agree his delivery was somewhat crass, but the issues he raises (specifically the QTEs and instant-death stealth sections) have been raised by others as well.

He is obviously one that places gameplay before graphics...

Everyone should place game-play before graphics, every time.

 

[thekiddfran]

Wow that eurogamer preview... that really sounds like he wants to hate on the game... i was expecting a good preview and all i got is david cage jokes and "next gen gameplay"...

Oh so the media are back hating on this game? It only took a week

 

[LORD_SCUFFINGTON]

I guess I understand why some are still fawning over this for its visuals and attention to detail, but that action footage was dull as dishwater. Feels like it will be a dry, no-surprises mix of Gears/Uncharted cover shooter gameplay and the constant controlled cinematic interaction of Heavy Rain/Beyond: Two Souls.

but what is wrong with that? the developers wanted to develop a game in this light!
they wanted to make a cinematic experience, and they are killing it shit.....the game looks OUTSTANDING to say the least!

 

[Hanmik]

I agree his delivery was somewhat crass, but the issues he raises (specifically the QTEs and instant-death stealth sections) have been raised by others as well.

the game will probably be fine and fun.. but this demo is not showcasing that very good.

Like I said before, those Interactive cutscenes are IMO not fun to play.. and what makes them really really really bad is the fact, that you have to press a button or move the stick in almost every cutscene, which means you can´t skip a cutscene... this is so annoying when you just want to replay the gameplay sections, or play it again to collect some stuff you missed.

 

[get2sammyb]

The insta-death stealth sections are terrible, I'm not sure what they're thinking there. I can also see the concern over the combat being a bit straightforward. The guns do feel great now, though, so it's going to be at the very least a competent shooter. It could go beyond that with the right encounters.

One thing I will say is that at Chapter Five, it still seems quite early in the game. The demo includes tutorials for a lot of the more basic mechanics -- perhaps they're added to the sampler for playability purposes. It could also be, of course, that it's still quite early in the game.

 

[GIANKRATOS]

I guess thats what you, specifically, got out of it. He had genuine concerns from an actual playthrough about the gameplay. He is obviously one that places gameplay before graphics and in that respect I could see someone being disappointed in this game. Don't get so bothered by someone's opinion.

Nono, wait. I totally agre on some points. It's the way he talk about it. And let's be honest, the bugs point was ridiculous. Like: "Ok, i need to reach point 5.. mmm... oh yeah, bugs! Let's list bugs in an unfinished version of the game as a valid point for not buying the game!"

 

[Joeki11a]

Sony's Ryse filmic extravaganza...

Sony finally has Gears of War game

Gears of Warewolves? Ya

 

[Kenshin001]

Wow that eurogamer preview... that really sounds like he wants to hate on the game... i was expecting a good preview and all i got is david cage jokes and "next gen gameplay"...

I don't think he wants to hate on the game. I think there is plenty to be legitimately worried about the game. Kind of reminds me of the lead up to Ryse. On the one hand I feel sorry for RAD because this is their first original game and looks like it's going to be a stinker, on the other hand it just reinforces my opinion that some developers need to get their head out their bum and listen to what people are saying instead of single mindedly following their vision.

 

[ced]

While I agree that insta-fail stealth or melee sequences are a bad design, I'm starting to hope that it was just used in that part due to the story. A lot of the interviews about the game mentioned branching path melee combat and stealth options (I think I read stealth).

I'm hoping that short section was insta-fail just like that section in Uncharted 2 (the stealth level), a game that was overwhelmingly well received and didn't consist of constant stealth sections like that.

Here is a bit from an interview with Ru:

You have assassination stealth missions are you always trying to track down a particular target or is it more varied than that ?

It’s diverse. I can’t give you a single example. Stealth is used basically when you don’t want to be seen in those areas; you don’t want to be heard. You’ll have different ways of using stealth in different missions actually. You can kill people while you're being stealthy or you can try not to; the scenarios are pretty diverse when it comes to stealth.

You're not penalised for killing people rather than sneaking past them ?

I won't say penalised but you have to be careful how you do it. If you go all-out and try to kill somebody you might not be able to finish the game. If you’re found out because you just tried to blast through everything, more likely than not you’ll probably get caught.

 

[Nightengale]

The thing I don't get about the criticisms of instafail stealth is that it's nothing to do with game design, but rather story design.

In the first place, why does that instafail stealth moment exist?The thing to take out of the instafail-stealth moments, is "what's the purpose?"

Contrary to popular belief, these things exist in many games even today. AssCreed has them, Far Cry has them, Splinter Cell has them. Only small amounts, but instafail stealth sections still exist, even in games far more open like Far Cry, and games with rich stealth mechanics like Splinter Cell.

And for what reason do these terrible segments exist in all these games?

Because they're gameplay moments that are served for the sake of the narrative. The respective game's story demands that you enter a section of the story where you are not discovered at all, and that leads to these moments.

I agree that it's not a good thing, and it's worth criticizing. But the point of instafail stealth isn't a reflection of archaic or terrible game design. It's a reflection of a poor story design, where the story specifically creates a segment that forces no-detection-allowed stealth.

 

[travisbickle]

the game will probably be fine and fun.. but this demo is not showcasing that very good.

Like I said before, those Interactive cutscenes are IMO not fun to play.. and what makes them really really really bad is the fact, that you have to press a button or move the stick in almost every cutscene, which means you can´t skip a cutscene... this is so annoying when you just want to replay the gameplay sections, or play it again to collect some stuff you missed.

Can you confirm the point made about sneaking up on a guy and if he spots you turns around and shoots you in the face with no recourse?

 

[Cave Johnson]

While I agree that insta-fail stealth or melee sequences are a bad design, I'm starting to hope that it was just used in that part due to the story. A lot of the interviews about the game mentioned branching path melee combat and stealth options (I think I read stealth).

I'm hoping that short section was insta-fail just like that section in Uncharted 2 (the stealth level), a game that was overwhelmingly well received.

The was a forced tutorial. It's not the same!

 

[Awntawn]

Insta-fail stealth is a tricky subject. It's bad for obvious reasons, but on the other hand I can understand why they went with it.

To be honest, I've always been amused at how stealth works in most games. You get discovered, shit hits the fan, all the enemies scramble, multiple gunshots are fired, and eventually, one way or the other, you get out of it.

Then in the next room, people are on their normal patrol routes as if they didn't just hear a warzone a couple hundred feet away. Hide long enough and eventually the situation resets to the most basic mode, even with all of the bodies left lying around in the aftermath.

It's completely immersion breaking, and The Order is a game that doesn't want to do that.

Obviously, a cheap solution is to not have any stealth sections, but then that limits the places the story can go. Turn it into cutscenes? Would that really be better? I think in this case it's just one of those necessary evils that they hope isn't too frustrating.

 

[Hanmik]

Can you confirm the point made about sneaking up on a guy and if he spots you turns around and shoots you in the face with no recourse?

there are 3 sections with stealth in this demo..

- one where you have to kill one guard standing at a circuit box trying to fix it. You just walk up to him and wait for th button prompt. If you press Triangle at the right time you execute him. If you miss the prompt (which is pretty hard to miss), the you are dead.
- next there is another section where you need to take down one guard. He walks around, so you need to go up behind him and wait for the prompt. Again you die if you miss the prompt and he dies you you hit the button at the right time. But he can also spot you because he is walking around. If he spots you he shoots you and you are dead.
- Finally there is a longer stealth section with 2 (or is it 3?) guards. They both walk around, so you need to walk up behind them without getting spotted and wait for the button prompt again. Same procedure here, wait for triangle prompt and press it at the right time or you are dead. If any of the guard spots you he shoots you and you are dead..

It´s simple and you actually have to try hard to die in these sections, they are really easy (you can only play on medium difficulty in the demo) to complete. But because I´m doing a preview (ahem later today) I think I need to try the demo as a bad gamer and a normal gamer, just to get a feel if the game is any different if you screw up alot.

 

[JodokusK]

Can you confirm the point made about sneaking up on a guy and if he spots you turns around and shoots you in the face with no recourse?

Yep, that is in the preview build. My colleague had that happen to him the first time. He didn't realize you have to time the button press exactly instead of ramming on triangle the instant you see the prompt. A quick scene followed where he got shot in the face, which was actually kinda funny

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Stealth elements like this (that require the player to progress) should work thus:

- Player is 'prompted' to kill/subdue an enemy with a stealth kill
- If the player manages it within the allotted time, progress
- If the player doesn't, offer a second chance (a struggle ensues, another chance to kill/subdue)
- If the player again fails, then they die

This ensures the push through that area continues, and the frustration of having to repeat it is removed.

 

[GreyOcelot]

Insta-fail stealth is a tricky subject. It's bad for obvious reasons, but on the other hand I can understand why they went with it.

To be honest, I've always been amused at how stealth works in most games. You get discovered, shit hits the fan, all the enemies scramble, multiple gunshots are fired, and eventually, one way or the other, you get out of it.

Then in the next room, people are on their normal patrol routes as if they didn't just hear a warzone a couple hundred feet away. Hide long enough and eventually the situation resets to the most basic mode, even with all of the bodies left lying around in the aftermath.

It's completely immersion breaking, and The Order is a game that doesn't want to do that.

Obviously, a cheap solution is to not have any stealth sections, but then that limits the places the story can go. Turn it into cutscenes? Would that really be better? I think in this case it's just one of those necessary evils that they hope isn't too frustrating.

numerous stealth games have solved these issues you're referring to. in TLoU for example, enemies do not go back to their normal routes or reset when you hide after being seen, they go into a sort of "patrol" mode and constantly look for you. in something like MGS, groups of guards will search for you based on last known location, lost guards will be replaced and will have hightened awareness.

a lot of the things you're talking about are problems that stealth games had years ago, but have now been solved for the most part. just look at the uncharted 4 demo. it's night and day in how the stealth is handled in comparison to the old games

 

[theignoramus]

Wow that eurogamer preview... that really sounds like he wants to hate on the game... i was expecting a good preview and all i got is david cage jokes and "next gen gameplay"...

He was irreverent but very specific with his criticism. Maybe you should watch it again.

 

[Nightengale]

numerous stealth games have solved these issues you're referring to. in TLoU for example, enemies do not go back to their normal routes or reset when you hide after being seen, they go into a sort of "patrol" mode and constantly look for you. in something like MGS, groups of guards will search for you based on last known location, lost guards will be replaced and will have hightened awareness.

a lot of the things you're talking about are problems that stealth games had years ago, but have now been solved for the most part. just look at the uncharted 4 demo. it's night and day in how the stealth is handled in comparison to the old games

The thing though is that despite what it looks like, The Order's stealth scenario is closer to that of AssCreed tailing missions than MGS/TLoU stealth situations.

The story 'demands' that Galahad reach the sniper's point without alerting anyone at all. And thus instafail, because well, that's how he's expected to reach there.

It's not a question about solutions being available, it's a question that the game doesn't want to let you have those solutions, because the game wants you to clear that area with rules that the story demands. (like how you cannot allow yourself to be discovered in some AssCreed missions as the story demands you learned the intel without alerting anyone )

 

[Awntawn]

numerous stealth games have solved these issues you're referring to. in TLoU for example, enemies do not go back to their normal routes or reset when you hide after being seen, they go into a sort of "patrol" mode and constantly look for you. in something like MGS, groups of guards will search for you based on last known location, lost guards will be replaced and will have hightened awareness.

a lot of the things you're talking about are problems that stealth games had years ago, but have now been solved for the most part. just look at the uncharted 4 demo. it's night and day in how the stealth is handled in comparison to the old games

I know there some don't do this. Batman comes to mind, I know the enemies in the room stay on alert until you take them all down. But there are some recent, critically acclaimed stealth games that still do.

But that's only half my point. After a complete warzone, the next room is completely obvious of what just happened in the room before it. In this scenario in the Order demo, for story purposes, it is important that the knights remain undetected until after the sniper section. If a blown stealth attempt results in a firefight, realistically the whole airship goes on alert, and the story elements around the sniper section no longer make any sense. The VIP isn't blissfully vulnerable to an assassination attempt anymore, because they've heard gunshots.

The more realistic games get, the more stuff like this starts to stick out and bother people.

To be fair though, there is room for improvement. I think the options that Opus detailed could make the difference between a 7 or a 9 game if these sections are a major part of the game, but from what I've read, there aren't that many stealth sections in this game.

 

[sora87]

I hope people are tweeting at the RAD guys to let them know how universally hated the stealth sections are, they really need to get that rubbish out the game.

 

[travisbickle]

The thing though is that despite what it looks like, The Order's stealth scenario is closer to that of AssCreed tailing missions than MGS/TLoU stealth situations.

The story 'demands' that Galahad reach the sniper's point without alerting anyone at all. And thus instafail, because well, that's how he's expected to reach there.

It's not a question about solutions being available, it's a question that the game doesn't want to let you have those solutions, because the game wants you to clear that area with rules that the story demands. (like how you cannot allow yourself to be discovered in some AssCreed missions as the story demands you learned the intel without alerting anyone )

Yeah, happens in some games where you've caused absolute havoc for an hour, manage to get away, then a cut scene begins where you're hearing about the bad guy's plans even though he would have evacuated the building after learning about your killing spree next door.

I agree that you should get a couple of chances. And also some closure if you are killed, like one of the team radioing the now dead Galahad, "come in, come in" and the guard that killed him having an 'oh shit' look.

 

[Begaria]

Video: Why you might not want to pre-order The Order
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-12-12-video-why-you-might-not-want-to-pre-order-the-order

Using that B-Roll footage that's in this thread. Looks like someone else that wasn't impressed by the PSX demo. There are two things I raise my eyebrow at in this video:

1. He complains about bugs. In a build for a game that is going to be released in a couple of months. He acknowledges this, and makes a good point in being wary after the likes of ACU or MCC, but I still find it a weird thing to complain about in an unfinished product.

2. "Last gen gameplay". You know, last gen wasn't that long ago, people. We haven't had that many third person shooters in the first year of the new gen. One I can think of is Garden Warfare, which has its own set of mechanics based on Plants vs Zombies rather than standard third person shooter mechanics. The other, and probably the closer one to compare to, is The Evil Within which takes more liberties from RE4 (a 6th gen game) rather than 7th gen TPS. Not exactly the types to set a standard to for current gen TPS.

 

[Chabbles]

Afew months back i read a comment in a thread here on Gaf, someone said how in an interview, the producer made a comment about The Order, and supposedly said something along the lines of how he didnt like having gameplay in The Order, but since it was a game, there was no choice in the matter (not word for word, but that was the gist of it)... now i dont know if the poster pulled that directly out of his ass or not because no proof was provided. But it has stuck with me since and has kind of colored my opinion on what we might end up getting when this drops, and can someone clear up exactly what the producer actually said ?