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The Orville |OT| MacFarlane's sci-fi com-, wait it's a drama!? That can't be right
- Thread starter berzeli
- Start date
Romars202129
Member
People down on ep 2? I keep seeing '3 and 4 are good', but no love for 2. I think 2 was the best. Really sold me on Alara whos become my favorite character.
paplikaplik
Member
It wouldve been possible on TOS. Kirk wouldve done the same thing if given the option. There may have been a moment where Spock may have said something, but Kirk wouldve been like, Fuck it, let em see the truth.
If it turned out the society was controlled by a computer, he wouldve destroyed it. Dude hated computer control. The Mark V messed him up good.
(So far, the third episode was TNG, the fourth was TOS.)
I don't think the prime directive would have applied.
Since it was a ship adrift they would have been obligated to investigate. It's a bit of a grey area, but that society's natural evolution was to travel to other worlds and the malfunction was what interrupted that.
Picard would have would have done the same thing.
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
The latest episode kinda reminds me of the "Who Watches the Watchers" episode on The Next Generation
Really loved it.
Has anyone read this btw? hilarious
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/callista-ring/2017/09/29/religion-slammed-foxs-orville
Really loved it.
Has anyone read this btw? hilarious
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/callista-ring/2017/09/29/religion-slammed-foxs-orville
We can argue about how much the things referenced are timeless or well-known in the future, but Trek continually referenced things way, way older (classical music, jazz, Shakespeare, 1940s detective noir, Sherlock Holmes, etc.). So whats wrong with the 80s/90s references, really? Because its perceived to be low-brow or because thats Seths bag?
Anyone is entitled to their opinions on what that brings to the show, but is it really unrealistic in-universe? Not to mention, despite the trappings, its not actually Trek, so Seth can do whatever he wants.
Lol at one of the commenters from that article:
That should be the tagline for the 2nd OT, if we make it that far.
Well, not that I personally found those scenes offensive, however, due to the huge disparity between works created in the past versus, say, the 1950s onwards, yes, I find it hard to believe that Friends will stick out as much as Shakespeare, classical music or Sherlock Holmes did and be remembered hundreds of years into the future. Sorry, just all of our entertainment is disposable now. Hell, just look at how less of an influence 90s and 00s culture is to those before it, shit doesn't last anymore.
Though in a way I wonder if this is somewhat one of the warmer unintended aspects of the show. That, perhaps, maybe even if humanity never does get any better than we are now and we never progress past making dick jokes and watching reality TV and Friends in our spare time that we're still good enough to fly around the universe and rescue aliens on a one way trip to a star.
This is so true, should had been one or the other. For me though for this show it should had been full drama since the comedy isn't that great here.
Fenderputty
Banned
This would have been an awesome title lol
It's weird to constantly be making references to 80's things now. It's even weirder imagining it 400 years from now. These aren't classics. No one is going to speak about the Smurfs the way we talk about Jazz music or Shakespeare in 400 years.
It's voiced by the awesome Norm Macdonald.
tonysidaway
Member
That's part of the fun. We can't possibly know what aspects of pop culture will survive for centuries. So the uncertainty becomes part of the humour. In an early episode of the Doctor Who revival in 2005, people in the year 5 billion believe a jukebox to be something called an iPod. As they prepare to see the planet finally engulfed by the nova of the senescent sun, they proceed to play "classical music" on it, including vinyl pressings of Soft Cell's Tainted Love (1981) and Britney Spears' Toxic (2004). A point about the ephemeral nature of all culture, nicely made.
Ha I thought it sounded familiar!
I guess it is kind of fun to think about that.
LordOfChaos
Member
Boy, Episode 3 was more think-ey than all of Discovery so far, eh? Probably the most startreky episode of star trek in a long while, while not being star trek.
I did find it threw me out of it though that immediately after making the argument for allowing the child to choose when they're older, they also said non medically necessary infant circumcision was still ok in a space faring civilization, pretty big contradiction there. But the rest was good.
I did find it threw me out of it though that immediately after making the argument for allowing the child to choose when they're older, they also said non medically necessary infant circumcision was still ok in a space faring civilization, pretty big contradiction there. But the rest was good.
BuddyTheBestPuppy
Member
haha watching the first episode now, this show is hilarious hahaha
tonysidaway
Member
I haven't seen any episodes but on the basis of the evolution of this thread it seems as if the show has found its audience.
I guess it's not impossible that circumcision passed out of favor and made a comeback, like fashion styles.
exmachina64
Banned
Do you think Shakespeare was the only playwright of his time? Or that the classical composers we remember were the only ones? Or that Sherlock Holmes was one of the only literary characters in his time?
Most culture doesn't survive the time in which it's produced, you're mistaken in that only disposable culture is produced now.
I'm bewildered by some of my friends reaction to this show.
It's not badly made, there is a lot of money being thrown at it. It's not all bad acting, although there are some very weak points all over the cast. There are many many favours being called in for actors of some reputeto show up, and you will see in the next few weeks too.
And yet, there isn't an ounce of creativity in this show. They don't even bother to change the PACING of the TNG/DS9/VOY era. The editing is similar. The musical cues are similar. He's making Star Trek. My friends are like.. "What's wrong with that?" and i can't even think of a good response to get through the glow they have of watching more TNG, done with a big budget in 2017. I guess this is a fan wish fulfillment, wanting the same thing, regurgitated over and over again.
It's not badly made, there is a lot of money being thrown at it. It's not all bad acting, although there are some very weak points all over the cast. There are many many favours being called in for actors of some reputeto show up, and you will see in the next few weeks too.
And yet, there isn't an ounce of creativity in this show. They don't even bother to change the PACING of the TNG/DS9/VOY era. The editing is similar. The musical cues are similar. He's making Star Trek. My friends are like.. "What's wrong with that?" and i can't even think of a good response to get through the glow they have of watching more TNG, done with a big budget in 2017. I guess this is a fan wish fulfillment, wanting the same thing, regurgitated over and over again.
The show is growing on me. Now that they have left most of the juvenile humor behind (McFarlane's constant "he is a dick" statements aside) it is actually a not bad ST:TNG show. The 4th episode sets up flat-earthers brilliantly, with a literal "have an open mind" statement at the end. Nice to see Liam Nesson and Theron next ep. When will Seth run out of Hollywood friends? Can he get Marky Mark?
We can only hope.
Episode 3 didn't feel like a Trek episode to me. No way it'd had ended the way it did, Simply no way any Trek captain would had it end like that one. Hell even I was a bit bummed and it really had me invested. so i am not sure why people are so down on it other than "its Seth McFarlane making Star Trek like sci fi show". It's not bad.
Well there was that time that Worf accepted discommendation even though he hadn't done anything wrong.
BlackBanditSho
Member
had to think for a while before responding to this post. I'm not normally one for fan wish fulfillment and static storytelling. That said, one of the things I love about classic television storytelling is the lack of serialized narrative. I used to enjoy comics for the same reason. The thing that this show hits on is the 'by-the-book' rhythm of done-in-one stories, act turns, and social commentary wrapping the theme.
Currently, the only place I still get that fix is Law and Order: SVU.
I don't want to get into a big Discovery vs. Orville, thing because Discovery seems to be doing well and fans seem to like it. I'm a giant hypocrite because I enjoyed the JJ Abrams movies well enough, and was eager for that cast to do TV trek in classic formula. Seemed like money in the bag. Apparently, Paramount thought thought otherwise.
Discovery is almost the antithesis about what I enjoy about Trek. It's highly militaristic. It's all about the special effects. And it's just so...angry. Even the peeks into future episodes do little for me. It feels like a Trek show made by people who don't get Trek but liked the JJ movies, whereby the movies (at least the first one) seemed like movies by a guy who legitimately wanted to try to get trek from a star wars fan view. This is Trek meets 'Insert popular fan show of the moment'. Galactica has its own flava. Star Wars it's own, and so does Trek.
I'm the most casual 'Trek' fan that I know. I like the first 6 movies, the 1st and 6th being my favorites. I hated most of the TNG movies, but found First Contact tolerable. I loved ToS, TNG, and currently enjoying DS9 (didn't watch it when it first aired), laugh at Voyager because it's awful, and thought that Enterprise was finding it's identity before they killed it.
The beauty of the old Trek formula (and old TV) is that you leave each episode satisfied. It's not about the hook for the next show. It's a format, like Black Mirror, that gives great writers a chance to tell a really compelling story with a moral punch, and have a completed thought.
So when you say that fans just want more of the same, it's not quite that simple. I miss the simplicity of strong done-in-one narrative. I couldn't believe it as I grew fonder and fonder of the show, but when episode 3 hooked me, I was sold. Seth gets it. Yeah, he's playing it super safe with the timing, music, cuts, and beats, but that's an old trick too...
Wrap it in something familiar, then slowly sell the tough pill.
Trek is, and has always been, comfort food. What better place to hide the McFarlane meds?
Your entire post perfectly sums up how I feel about Star Trek. You really hit the nail on the head.
As someone who hasn't watched or read anything about Discovery yet, I am a bit worried about the quoted portion, though. You make it sound like Discovery is really gritty and edgy. If that's the case, then I can already say that I like The Orville better than Discovery. I hate how freaking edgy everything has to be now.
Caught up on the fourth episode today. I thought it was an interesting idea, but some of the comedy stuff just fell pretty flat. When you're only adding small amounts of comedy "Great name, just kidding it's not" shouldn't make the cut. Also for some weird reason they had Seth ask Alana to "open this pickle jar" again in this episode, which they already used in the pilot. If it's supposed to be a joke, why re-use it, if it's supposed to be a callback why not make a bigger deal out of it (not that it really deserves it). Just seemed pretty odd to have him say pretty much the exact same line again.
Also that cameo from Liam Neeson was pretty weird.
Fake edit: Just seen that this episode was filmed as the second episode which might explain the repeated "pickle jar" line. Pretty weak callback though.
Real edit: Seeing as people are talking about Discovery I'll say I really enjoyed what I've seen of it so far. Seems to have much more depth than Orville is showing, but it's a different kind of show. Orville feels like someone's trying to do a parody of a 90s Trek show, Discovery is someone trying to do a more modern slant on the Trek formula. The production values are a lot higher on Discovery, and the acting is much better, but that's probably because Orville's scripts aren't as well written. Orville is fine, but it's forgettable and fluff. It hasn't done anything new, it's just taken all the familiar elements of Trek and made a show where Seth Macfarlane can try and do some Trek stories with a few jokes thrown in. It doesn't try and break the formula, so that's probably why it's resonating more with Trek fans who want to stick with that era of the show.
Also that cameo from Liam Neeson was pretty weird.
Fake edit: Just seen that this episode was filmed as the second episode which might explain the repeated "pickle jar" line. Pretty weak callback though.
Real edit: Seeing as people are talking about Discovery I'll say I really enjoyed what I've seen of it so far. Seems to have much more depth than Orville is showing, but it's a different kind of show. Orville feels like someone's trying to do a parody of a 90s Trek show, Discovery is someone trying to do a more modern slant on the Trek formula. The production values are a lot higher on Discovery, and the acting is much better, but that's probably because Orville's scripts aren't as well written. Orville is fine, but it's forgettable and fluff. It hasn't done anything new, it's just taken all the familiar elements of Trek and made a show where Seth Macfarlane can try and do some Trek stories with a few jokes thrown in. It doesn't try and break the formula, so that's probably why it's resonating more with Trek fans who want to stick with that era of the show.
Stallion Dan
Member
Enjoying Orville more than Discovery.
Don't think another 90s style Trek could work as actual Trek doing standalone episodes, Orville can do it though thanks to the comedy angle.
Don't think another 90s style Trek could work as actual Trek doing standalone episodes, Orville can do it though thanks to the comedy angle.
BlackBanditSho
Member
Came to eat some crow. discovery episode 3 wasnt bad. More intrigued now...
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
Latest episode was great. Felt like classic Star Trek and made me feel warm and fuzzy. 
Hopefully this show lasts and continues to get better.
Hopefully this show lasts and continues to get better.
I think the Orville can still get its footing, it just needs to drop the bad jokes, and focus more on the parody. The part where the crew realises how big the ship is in episode 4 when they're right up to it, and again when they notice Alara when they're right up on her - Both great visual gags making fun of TNG.
Of the fact that nobody freaks out about Isaac. I'd want more of that.
Cameos are great too, they should keep it up.
The rest of it is just reheated TNG. They're not even trying. Not sure how much of a negative that is.
Of the fact that nobody freaks out about Isaac. I'd want more of that.
Cameos are great too, they should keep it up.
The rest of it is just reheated TNG. They're not even trying. Not sure how much of a negative that is.
phoisgood495
Member
I agree with them though. What is wrong with that? In today's world where even Star Trek: Discovery is a grimdark war reboot that actively tries to disconnect itself from peaceful exploration and has more in common with The Expanse than TOS where is the show for those of us who just want to see more classic Trek?
The Orville delivers an upbeat hopeful future with the classic episodic structure of TOS/TNG, and does it in a more modern context, which is exactly what many Star Trek fans feel is missing in today's media landscape. I don't need them to evolve the formula, I'd rather they just modernize the message and produce the thing I already like. I personally think they should just drop all pretext of a Seth MacFarlane show, and just make a slightly more comedic/tongue in cheek Star Trek, as imo the dumb humor very rarely lands except when it's a character's reaction to an event in the show itself.
TheListener
Member
I'm through ep3 and officially recommend The Orville. I get the exact same feeling as watching Next Gen when I was a teenager. My son is watching with me and he is enjoying it too. I love the bad FX. I am ok with the bad humor. Ep3 had a really amazing scenario. The writing isn't perfect but I can tell they are heading toward some great stuff.
BrokenFiction
Member
Most of all I get the impression that they're trying because they really care about this genre. The ratings are creeping up too, based on word of mouth.
The Elite
BOSS
Yup. The care put into the stories so far has been impressive. I knew Seth was a big fan of space exploration and Star Trek but I wasn't sure he could write/produce for the genre. He's certainly proving himself so far.
I am already at the point that I would be ok with him tackling a Star Trek film. Without the bad humour, of course.
B_Spooky13
Member
I am actually really liking this show. Ep 3 was really good.
The jokes are very hit and miss but overall? I recommend
Edit: I have been noticing that as the episodes go on the jokes are getting more reasonable. The first seemed joke heavy now it seems to tone it down.
The jokes are very hit and miss but overall? I recommend
Edit: I have been noticing that as the episodes go on the jokes are getting more reasonable. The first seemed joke heavy now it seems to tone it down.
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