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[Shaneus]

Yeah, I can only imagine walking into a massive room full of physical pins would inspire you When I picked up mine, I'd barely even heard of High Speed, let alone played it!

To be honest, there's going to be a learning curve buying anything for your first machine. But I guess what I'm trying to emphasize is that you don't need to focus on something that has a deep ruleset with the fear you'll tire of it quickly. "Shallow" games I find have more staying power because you can see everything quickly and it becomes a game less about progression and more about skill/score. Even something like Firepower would be a great first machine with how basic yet entertaining it is.

I just think for a home machine, something that flows well and has shots that feel really nice is more important than "deep". Hence my recommendation on an early Ritchie table Even Rollergames is a fucking great game!

Probably stay away from BK2K though. I love it to bits for it's sound and lightshow, but there's really not a lot to it and it can get tiring a bit too quickly IMO.



Edit: HOLY FUCKING SHIT I THINK METALLICA UPDATE IS FINALLY OUT!!!!!!!

 

[nicoga3000]

Just played Tron, Spiderman, Iron Man, and Taxi. I won't lie - Iron Man was an incredible game.

Tron is fun, but the line behind me meant I couldn't get more than one game in. I want more time with it.

Taxi is seriously wonderful. I want to own one bad. That is a fun and simple pin.

Spiderman was set with Lightning flippers for tournament mode. Wicked hard as a result.

Grabbing lunch and then more pinball!

 

[nicoga3000]

Man, that arcade expo was SO fun. I am incredibly excited to go to another one some day! There was SO many classic arcade machines, and even more pins on freeplay! I got to play a bunch of different games, including the wonderful Tron and Iron Man.

I'm now in the market for my first machine! Either Taxi, Johnny Mnemonic, Stargate, or The Shadow. Taxi is a blast, but the deeper rule sets of JM, Stargate, and Shadow would be more enticing in that regard.

That said, here's 3 pics I took that were worth sharing. Modded Tron Pro, wonderful condition Iron Man (my friend was in the middle of Monger multi-ball), and of course OG Tron. I would LOVE to own a Tron or an IM, but both are getting quite expensive. But damn if they aren't incredible. Iron Man would easily rank as my favorite game. Tron has the theme I prefer, but Iron Man is just insanely good.

 

[Shaneus]

I've just come back from playing World Poker Tour in a chicken and fish shop. Put in $2 for three credits, earned a replay and got a match... and still left the machine to sit there in it's misery with 4 credits on there. Such a bad, bad, BAD game.
That's what happens when you force a designer to work on an IP they don't want to. It's a turd.

Didn't help that I just came back from playing about 6 credits on Getaway (which I still only "like", and not love).

Man, that arcade expo was SO fun. I am incredibly excited to go to another one some day! There was SO many classic arcade machines, and even more pins on freeplay! I got to play a bunch of different games, including the wonderful Tron and Iron Man.

I'm now in the market for my first machine! Either Taxi, Johnny Mnemonic, Stargate, or The Shadow. Taxi is a blast, but the deeper rule sets of JM, Stargate, and Shadow would be more enticing in that regard.

That said, here's 3 pics I took that were worth sharing. Modded Tron Pro, wonderful condition Iron Man (my friend was in the middle of Monger multi-ball), and of course OG Tron. I would LOVE to own a Tron or an IM, but both are getting quite expensive. But damn if they aren't incredible. Iron Man would easily rank as my favorite game. Tron has the theme I prefer, but Iron Man is just insanely good.

Don't discount older games! Make yourself up a list of titles by designers who you like going by what you've played in TPA and IRL. Hell, I almost vomited at the idea of a No Fear pinball despite being by Steve Ritchie. But on a friend's recommendation, I drove an hour and a half to play one and it's now on my most wanted list.

I'd also set your sights a little lower Shadow will command at least $4k or so for a decent one, Ironman at least $5k (I'd think) and JM probably around $2k. Stargate I think might be expensive because of the number of playfield toys, not sure on Taxi as I'm not sure how common they are in the US (they're literally impossible to find in Australia).

 

[nicoga3000]

I would never get an IM for my first machine - far too expensive right now. Taxi can be found here in the states for $1000-1500. That's my first choice depending on what comes up. We will see though! I prefer games with deeper rulesets as it gives me something to strive for outside of hit the ramp 400 times for points, haha.

E: I found an SF2 machine for $700 that I'm going to grab I think. Game was a lot of fun, haha.

 

[Shaneus]

First thing: Don't discount a relatively shallow ruleset. If I did, I wouldn't have picked up High Speed. And in case I've not said it yet, I still play it daily.

Second thing: Don't get SF2. If you want to know why, listen to the Coast 2 Coast Pinball podcast.

That's damn cheap for a Taxi, though. I wanted that once, but after playing it a bunch of times on TPA, I realised that it would probably get annoying REALLY quickly. Still reckon you'd be better off looking at older games like Bride of Pinbot, HS (obv.), Gorgar, Firepower etc.

But man, I've just realised how much I'm completely projecting my opinion onto you. Get what you feel comfortable with and want All I'm saying, is don't discount older games at all. They were coin vacuums because they were addictive like a freemium iPhone game, not deep like Dark Souls.

 

[nicoga3000]

Wait, why no SF2? I played it and loved it, haha.

E: I mean, for $700 in working condition/shopped, it seems like a great deal...But if there's something I'm missing?

 

[Shaneus]

Go here Around the 28 min mark. If you can't be bothered listening to the whole thing, of course!

 

[nicoga3000]

Go here Around the 28 min mark. If you can't be bothered listening to the whole thing, of course!

I actually listened to that, haha. It didn't sound like he was dissing the game!

To be honest, as long as I can take care of it, I'll be happy. If you haven't played the game, it really is a pretty cool game. It's CRAZY underrated though. You have to defeat all 12 world warriors to start wizard mode, which is to defeat all of them again on 1 ball.

Realistically, I'd take a Taxi over it, but Taxi's are pretty hard to come by for cheap. They ARE climbing in price. They had one at the expo for $1750/obo, but it wasn't in $1750 condition.

E: I like Bride of Pinbot, but I don't know how I'd find a cheap one. Gorgar was NOT fun to me - really boring game. I actually have found that a lot of older games ARE boring to me, mostly because I've tasted the future. There are some gems out there, though. Which is how I found something as dumb as Street Fighter 2, ha. I tried Rollergames at the expo per your suggestion I think. Game was OK, but the right flipper was jank - you couldn't slam it hard enough to launch it half-way up the field. As such, I was turned off of it. Tried F-14 Tomcat and hated it, too. Played really odd. I also can't stand "classic" games.

The big issue is that pins are rising in price. I've got feelers out, but we'll see.

 

[Shaneus]

I also can't stand "classic" games.

The big issue is that pins are rising in price. I've got feelers out, but we'll see.

Hm, fair call on all points! F-14 is a unique beast in that it's basically a masochist's game. TBH as much as I think I'd love one, I doubt I'd want to keep it more than a year or two, especially when I can get just as much a manageable and appealing challenge out of HS.

Which reminds me: Don't ignore Visual Pinball as a way of seeing if you'll like a table or not. Most tables play okay now but more importantly, you can get a feel for whether you'd like the game or not. Here's High Speed and The Getaway for you to try out. There's more to it than just downloading the table, but there are instructions on the site and it's pretty straightforward

Glad you now seem to be more thinking of a physical table than a virtual one, though. I'll take that as some kind of victory

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Gorgar was NOT fun to me - really boring game.

Gorgar might be my favorite table in PA... I think it's the sound that does it for me. I swear the RZA sampled it for the Cold World Remix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CghScm4uY

Tell me it doesn't sound like it @ my fellow Pinball Arcade+Wu-Tang lovers.

 

[nicoga3000]

Hm, fair call on all points! F-14 is a unique beast in that it's basically a masochist's game. TBH as much as I think I'd love one, I doubt I'd want to keep it more than a year or two, especially when I can get just as much a manageable and appealing challenge out of HS.

Which reminds me: Don't ignore Visual Pinball as a way of seeing if you'll like a table or not. Most tables play okay now but more importantly, you can get a feel for whether you'd like the game or not. Here's High Speed and The Getaway for you to try out. There's more to it than just downloading the table, but there are instructions on the site and it's pretty straightforward

Glad you now seem to be more thinking of a physical table than a virtual one, though. I'll take that as some kind of victory

I've heard VP is great to judge games. I did try VP while at the show...After having played physical pins for a few hours prior to getting my hands wet with VP, you could FEEL the difference in all of the physics. Example!

In Medieval Madness after you launch, the ball rolls down the right ramp towards the flippers. In TPA, you can let the ball bounce off of the right flipper over to the left and cradle it. On the physical pin, you can't. Well, not on this machine. Every single machine plays a little different based off of so many factors. As a result, I drained a few times because I didn't realize the ball wouldn't react the virtual machines. I can wreck havoc on virtual MM any day, but the physical pin? Haha a TOTALLY different animal. Loved it!

That's what sold me really...Playing Gorgar (even though I hate it), MM, Star Trek: TNG, and Taxi. I've played all of them on TPA and in physical form. So much about the physical game was just magic.

So yes Shaneus - you win.

Spoiler

But I'm so damn happy you win, because what a glorious eye opener it has been!]/SPOILER]

Gorgar might be my favorite table in PA... I think it's the sound that does it for me. I swear the RZA sampled it for the Cold World Remix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CghScm4uY

Tell me it doesn't sound like it @ my fellow Pinball Arcade+Wu-Tang lovers.

I will play Gorgar, Genie, Eightball, etc. for the sake of playing them. They are what started the hobby after all. But the only way I'll ever buy a classic machine is if I can get it for dirt ass cheap. And honestly, I would probably never even play the game. Different strokes!

 

[Shaneus]

Holy fucking shit. This is the mother of all nudges (shoves!) by Josh Sharpe in Louisville, and only a single danger! Machine slides a good foot at least.

Go to around 52:00 and watch...
http://www.twitch.tv/papatvpinball/b/509571437

 

[nicoga3000]

Holy fucking shit. This is the mother of all nudges (shoves!) by Josh Sharpe in Louisville, and only a single danger! Machine slides a good foot at least.

Go to around 52:00 and watch...
http://www.twitch.tv/papatvpinball/b/509571437

There are no words for that. Damn.

 

[Brashnir]

Holy fucking shit. This is the mother of all nudges (shoves!) by Josh Sharpe in Louisville, and only a single danger! Machine slides a good foot at least.

Go to around 52:00 and watch...
http://www.twitch.tv/papatvpinball/b/509571437

That wasn't a nudge, it was an act of war....

 

[nicoga3000]

Turns out Coast 2 Coast Pinball is a blast to listen to. Thank you for introducing it to me. So cool to listen to pinball musings.

 

[Shaneus]

Turns out Coast 2 Coast Pinball is a blast to listen to. Thank you for introducing it to me. So cool to listen to pinball musings.

Damn straight. I'm sure I've been flogging the hell out of it in this thread for ages, but I guess it could've been missed easily enough. Glad to have recruited another!

Stoked that I'll be catching up with Nate in Texas.

 

[nicoga3000]

Damn straight. I'm sure I've been flogging the hell out of it in this thread for ages, but I guess it could've been missed easily enough. Glad to have recruited another!

Stoked that I'll be catching up with Nate in Texas.

I'd love to go to another show, but too much going on to make it out. And I have only followed this thread on and off, so I probably missed you pimping that podcast. It really is great, though. Just a fun 45 minute discussion on pinball.

Also, I'm back on board with at least having a Future Pinball/Visual Pinball machine to toy with. I downloaded recreations of TRON, Iron Man, and Spider Man last night. While they played a lot easier than the actual machine, it was nice playing pins I know I won't be able to afford like, ever. And having played them all at the recent expo, I can safely say they played relatively true to form. It was awesome. I think I'd primarily use it for machines that, like I said, I'll never own.

And an update on my SF2 machine that I'll likely be getting in ~2 weeks. The guy sent me more pictures. Everything looks like it's in pretty great shape. The only thing missing from the machine is the translite. Thankfully, I can order one of those for $50. As such, I'm going to see if he'll take $650 for it. He is running some tests today and tomorrow to make sure everything is in working order. I told him that the car HAS to be working and the ramps need to functioning correctly in order for me to even consider the purchase. So fingers are crossed!

 

[snaffles]

I just picked this up for my PS3/Vita a couple of days ago and am really enjoying it. So far I have only bought the Star Trek machine but was wondering if there was sort of a general consensus on some other good ones to pick up? Am I better off just buying one of the season packs?

 

[nicoga3000]

I just picked this up for my PS3/Vita a couple of days ago and am really enjoying it. So far I have only bought the Star Trek machine but was wondering if there was sort of a general consensus on some other good ones to pick up? Am I better off just buying one of the season packs?

Season 1 has some amazing tables. I have to buy Season 2 still, but it has some great tables.

If you enjoy pinball and you have some extra cash, you would be smart to grab Season 1 to start. Taxi, TotAN, Funhouse, ToM, ST:TNG, and more.

E: TZ, AfM, Bride of Pinbot, MM...Wow, yeah. Buy Season 1, haha.

 

[snaffles]

Season 1 has some amazing tables. I have to buy Season 2 still, but it has some great tables.

If you enjoy pinball and you have some extra cash, you would be smart to grab Season 1 to start. Taxi, TotAN, Funhouse, ToM, ST:TNG, and more.

E: TZ, AfM, Bride of Pinbot, MM...Wow, yeah. Buy Season 1, haha.

Thanks for the suggestions, I was leaning more towards season one as I had played more of those games. Aside from Terminator and Fish Tales I don't think I have played a lot of the stuff from season two onwards so I would really be flying blind there but if anyone has any that they think are required reading so to speak I would definitely be open to giving them a shot.

 

[nicoga3000]

Thanks for the suggestions, I was leaning more towards season one as I had played more of those games. Aside from Terminator and Fish Tales I don't think I have played a lot of the stuff from season two onwards so I would really be flying blind there but if anyone has any that they think are required reading so to speak I would definitely be open to giving them a shot.

I'd say S2 is still worth it because there ARE some great tables, but S1 is ridiculously good.

 

[Shaneus]

And an update on my SF2 machine that I'll likely be getting in ~2 weeks. The guy sent me more pictures. Everything looks like it's in pretty great shape. The only thing missing from the machine is the translite. Thankfully, I can order one of those for $50. As such, I'm going to see if he'll take $650 for it. He is running some tests today and tomorrow to make sure everything is in working order. I told him that the car HAS to be working and the ramps need to functioning correctly in order for me to even consider the purchase. So fingers are crossed!

Bahaha, that's almost a carbon-copy of Nate's story. And from what it sounds like, you should be able to get an alternate translite that's less ugly than the original as well. Maybe even shoot him an email (coast2coastpinbal(at)gmail.com), and when he's not busy (he seems to be currently, though) he'll definitely reply. Regardless of how "good" (or not) a machine is, unless it's a right stinker then ~$700ish for it is a great price. And like I said, worst case scenario, you can palm it off for roughly what you paid for it. Even if you make a little bit of a loss, it's not that bad anyway.

One of the beauties of buying pinnies vs. consoles. At least with non-current ones, there's always resale value!

I'd say S2 is still worth it because there ARE some great tables, but S1 is ridiculously good.

IMO, S1 is great for getting people into playing pinball via TPA. S2 is better suited to people who have already acquired a taste for more unique machines... could see games like Centaur and Whirlwind potentially intimidate people vs. the easier-to-appreciate S1.

 

[nicoga3000]

Bahaha, that's almost a carbon-copy of Nate's story. And from what it sounds like, you should be able to get an alternate translite that's less ugly than the original as well. Maybe even shoot him an email (coast2coastpinbal(at)gmail.com), and when he's not busy (he seems to be currently, though) he'll definitely reply. Regardless of how "good" (or not) a machine is, unless it's a right stinker then ~$700ish for it is a great price. And like I said, worst case scenario, you can palm it off for roughly what you paid for it. Even if you make a little bit of a loss, it's not that bad anyway.

One of the beauties of buying pinnies vs. consoles. At least with non-current ones, there's always resale value!


IMO, S1 is great for getting people into playing pinball via TPA. S2 is better suited to people who have already acquired a taste for more unique machines... could see games like Centaur and Whirlwind potentially intimidate people vs. the easier-to-appreciate S1.

Yeah, it's very close to his situation, haha. I have found another in really great condition locally for $1k, but I'm holding out. I should know tomorrow if the cheaper machine will be working or not. Once that's determined, I'll make my call. I'll either have an SF2 machine this weekend or next.

And yeah, pins hold their value REALLY well in today's market. With the resurgence that's slowly happening, it's only going to be even more so.

 

[sefskillz]

yea, season 1 is a must buy. Scared Stiff is another great table.

season 2 gets you space shuttle and firepower though. Space Shuttle is super simple, almost to a fault, but damn its fun.

 

[nicoga3000]

There's an interesting discussion taking place on Pinside about people thinking Pinball is a nerdy/lame/stupid/boring hobby. I had some obvious comments to this, but it got me thinking...

Is pinball actually on a resurgence? And does anyone think it WILL come back with any sort of staying power?

I want to believe that it is. I think barcades are definitely helping this. I REALLY wish pins were more affordable, though. Truthfully, I think one of the things that would further the hobby would be more affordable home machines. The new Stern Mustang that's coming out (that I have zero interest in) is what, $5.4k Pro, $7.5k LE, $8.5k Premium? Yikes.

Stern tried with "The Pin", but that was a flop. Because again, at $3k, why the fuck would you buy a smaller, less featured, cheap feeling pin? You can get some AMAZING games at $3k. But even JJP with WoZ...That machine is like $8k. I realize there are a lot of costs that go into a pinball machine, but there's got to be a way to cut down pricing a little to help make the hobby more newbie friendly.

 

[snaffles]

I ended up buying season 1 last night, really enjoying it. Some of the tables are a bit hard for me to play on the vita though, just too much stuff going on such a small screen and I struggle to make out what is what. Enjoy playing the older tables on it fine though, Big Shot is probably my favourite of those so far. They all look and play great on the PS3 though.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

There's an interesting discussion taking place on Pinside about people thinking Pinball is a nerdy/lame/stupid/boring hobby. I had some obvious comments to this, but it got me thinking...

Is pinball actually on a resurgence? And does anyone think it WILL come back with any sort of staying power?

I want to believe that it is. I think barcades are definitely helping this. I REALLY wish pins were more affordable, though. Truthfully, I think one of the things that would further the hobby would be more affordable home machines. The new Stern Mustang that's coming out (that I have zero interest in) is what, $5.4k Pro, $7.5k LE, $8.5k Premium? Yikes.

Stern tried with "The Pin", but that was a flop. Because again, at $3k, why the fuck would you buy a smaller, less featured, cheap feeling pin? You can get some AMAZING games at $3k. But even JJP with WoZ...That machine is like $8k. I realize there are a lot of costs that go into a pinball machine, but there's got to be a way to cut down pricing a little to help make the hobby more newbie friendly.

There would need to be something to generate interest in the classic tables beyond the nostalgia of the existing audience. The new tables are almost all licensed properties and those have a short window of appeal to the few who get to play them in good condition, to say nothing of the upkeep costs for a parlor owner. I'm skeptical it can make a huge comeback.

 

[Shaneus]

There's an interesting discussion taking place on Pinside about people thinking Pinball is a nerdy/lame/stupid/boring hobby. I had some obvious comments to this, but it got me thinking...

Is pinball actually on a resurgence? And does anyone think it WILL come back with any sort of staying power?

I want to believe that it is. I think barcades are definitely helping this. I REALLY wish pins were more affordable, though. Truthfully, I think one of the things that would further the hobby would be more affordable home machines. The new Stern Mustang that's coming out (that I have zero interest in) is what, $5.4k Pro, $7.5k LE, $8.5k Premium? Yikes.

Stern tried with "The Pin", but that was a flop. Because again, at $3k, why the fuck would you buy a smaller, less featured, cheap feeling pin? You can get some AMAZING games at $3k. But even JJP with WoZ...That machine is like $8k. I realize there are a lot of costs that go into a pinball machine, but there's got to be a way to cut down pricing a little to help make the hobby more newbie friendly.

"The Pin" was that cheap, shitty Transformers one, yes?

I don't think it can come back as big as it was. I think GJ hits on a great point, that while Stern's licensed pins are great for pinball and them in the short term, the problem that happened with Data East's (and Sega's) machines in the 90s remains. Vast majority of the themes have little to fuck-all appeal. Avengers (movie)? Shrek? Transformers movie? Lethal Weapon 3, Last Action Hero, Baywatch, Avatar, 24, CSI.They're all themes that are designed to burn twice as brightly for half as long, which destines them for the back of some arcade while they remain unmaintained and eventually switched off.

It's also the reason we're seeing bigger success with titles like AC/DC and Metallica. It doesn't matter if one of these is on location 10 years from now... everyone fucking likes/knows those bands (and to a lesser extent, is the same with the new Star Trek one. People know the IP, despite it being a new iteration of the franchise) where 10 or even 5 years from now, who will give a shit about Spiderman, Iron Man or Austin fucking Powers?

There's a reason that Medieval is getting remade. It's a timeless theme that could come out during any era and still appeal. Similar thing will probably happen to Mustang... it may not be a big fad or appeal to a lot of people, but I guarantee you the price on it will not plummet as the theme ages.

What I think? I think there's a wave right now that Stern is milking the fuck out of rather than taking the opportunity to create titles that will appeal to people beyond their immediate shelf-life. If they started instilling a value in these pins that extends beyond being a fan of a particular fad by creating original-themed tables (or tables that have a deeply-rooted fanbase) then they'd be able to create them longer. But there'll be a point in the future when too many arcades get machines stuck in the corner (like I mentioned earlier) and saturation point will it. And at that point, we'll all be fucked/relying on boutique buyers.



PS. FWIW, here are some themes Stern could do that would be great earners, appeal to people long-term and have potential for great gameplay:

* Spinal Tap
* Blues Brothers (original movie)
* Ghostbusters (unlikely to happen, though)
* Evil Dead
* Ferrari (covers many cars/eras/drivers/generations)
* Classic stories with an original artwork/sound interpretation (think Monster Bash/CFtBL). For example: Around the World in 80 Days*, Gulliver's Travels, Journey to the Centre of the Earth etc.
* James Bond (a la Dr. Who, covering all Bond movies, limited editions could have focus on different Bonds)
* Forrest Gump

Others that would suit more boutique companies:
* They Live! (more of a limited-run, Predator-esque title)
* Jackie Chan (one that covers his movies)
* Shaun of the Dead
* Groundhog Day (I think this could be good, despite being a one-off movie)


But you know, whatever. Let's just go for what's hot right now like Hunger Games or some shit.


Wow, that felt good to get out of my system.


Edit: Notice how other pin companies are picking up the slack in regards to Stern's poor license choosing. Jersey Jack, first with WOZ and then with Pat Lawlor's original title. Homepin with Thunderbirds. Heighway with Full Throttle. Ben Heck/Spooky's two titles. J-Pop's Magic Girl.
If Stern could release one or two original themes, it would open up all original-theme manufacturers to the market. Maybe that's why they don't do it. Hopefully Steve Ritchie's successes will allow him to push with something of his own creation.

 

[sefskillz]

now I can't stop thinking about the gameplay possibilities of a They Live! pin

 

[nicoga3000]

I have to both agree and disagree.

I think certain new games by Stern will go down as being classics. If you've not played TRON, you need to - I think that machine has staying power. It's brutal and an absolutely wonderful sensory overload. Shots are satisfying, sound is fantastic, lights fit well, playfield is great. Lots of things they did right on that game. Even folks who don't really love the movie would agree.

That said, I think that the other games that are based off of super popular franchises (Iron Man, Avengers, Spider Man, Transformers), are a mixed bag. Iron Man is AMAZING. I found it to be one of my favorite games I've played. Spider Man seems to have a following, but I didn't get enough play time. Transformers felt cheap. I haven't played Avengers, but the general consensus on that is that Stern really fucked up with it - could have been a LOT better.

I will say, they did pick the right franchises to jump on. I mean, I would guess 95%+ of the population interested in gaming in any way knows who Iron Man and The Avengers are. And considering that super hero movies are STILL popular, those games will be around for a while.

Having said that, Stern needs to do a REALLY amazing job on tables like that. Iron Man? Check. Avengers? Read the reviews...A lot of people say it sucks. I want to play one myself for a few hours to assess that, so I can't comment. But I think Stern is smart to advertise to the masses with popular machines...

Now regarding the idea of more overarching themes!

I think what Stern is attempting to do is bring in new blood. A Blues Brothers pin, while fun to those who a) appreciate pinball and b) enjoy the movie, will not entice a 22 year old at the bar. That Iron Man machine will, though. I'm not saying they shouldn't do a Blues Brothers machine, but I think they need to be smart with it. James Bond could be decent, and Ferrari and Mustang are similar enough to me that I'm not sure it would be much different. I don't know why the hate for Mustang. I mean, I just don't care about cars, so I have no interest in a car themed game like that.

There is a company working on an Alice in Wonderland boutique game. THAT I want. I LOVE Alice. I would go crazy for that machine, but I think I read it's ~$10k with no real release date set. So...*sad* In general, boutique games are a great idea, but the pricing can't climb to the $8k+ range like it has or they've almost immediately priced themselves out of a majority of homes. Quite frankly, a barcade or similar atmosphere is going to grab 2 Sterns based off the current hot over a unique Alice or WoZ. Shaun of the Dead...That would be CRAZY popular, though!

I'm typing as I think, so this is a jumbled mess I'm sure.

In general, I don't think Stern is necessarily doing it wrong with picking up popular franchises at the moment, but the comment on few folks getting to play them in proper condition is spot on. I wish I was capable of doing something about it - making really affordable machines available to the masses that aren't cheap pieces of shit like "The Pin" (which was that shitty Transformers one). For what it's worth, "The Pin" was still like $3k, for a NON-full sized, apparently non-serviceable machine. Anecdotal accounts said it was impossible to get under the playfield...

Blah - I guess the whole idea just frustrates me. I want it to come back big, but I know that the ULTIMATE issue is cost. I would venture to say that the reason a lot of pinheads don't own their favorite machine is because they can't swing the thousands it would cost. Hell, that's why I likely won't ever own a TRON! The Pinball Arcade is definitely a great way to get into pinball as a game (learning the rules and shot control), but getting into the HOBBY requires some serious cash.

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah, but will people care about an Iron Man theme in 10 years? Tron has staying power based on the franchise, not on the most recent movie IMO. Spiderman is a great game from what I hear, but what are the chances of me seeing it anywhere now that the series has been rebooted and it's been 7-8 years since the one it was based on came out? That's kind of my point. Whilst some of these machines are pretty good, no one stands out more than the other once you get past the theme. In most cases, to the very occasional player, one outdated theme is as bad as another.

So, a theme/idea has to be used that can be sold to people outside of a machine's production run, because vendors won't invest in titles that will only be popular for a short amount of time. The themes used in games like TotAN, Cirqus Voltaire, Theatre of Magic etc. are timeless. In 10 years, I'll probably still be able to find non-gamers who would be curious and excited to play a game based on magic, the Arabian Nights or whatever. But good luck convincing my mum or a complete non-gamer to play a game based on a movie they've probably never seen that appealed to teenage boys when it was out.


PS. The problem with making games that appeal to 95% of the gaming population is that they're not appealing to 95% of the non-gaming population. I was tearing my hair out when Mustang was announced, right at the same time when Gary Stern was giving speeches about having to appeal to a wider audience.

PPS. Ferrari = international appeal. Having just come home from the first day of the Melbourne F1 GP, I guarantee you that it's something that would appeal globally... much more than Mustang.

PPPS. I own my favourite machine. Some people just need to broaden their horizons ;P

There's far more points I could make, but it's late and I'm damn tired

 

[nicoga3000]

I agree - but you have to admit that nobody would have guessed Marvel characters would go from comic geeks to mainstream in the past years like it has. Who knows what will happen with it. Am I saying I think you're wrong? Not at all. I think you bring up points that the manufacturers aren't. Iron Man is huge right now and has been, but will he be in 2025? Maybe...Maybe not.

TotAN, ToM, CV...Yes, these are WONDERFUL machines. But they also fetch $7k+. I guess that's an argument for the timelessness of the themes and machines! The games were a blast, too. That definitely helps...Themes aside, the game has to be FUN to play.

As regarding the cars thing, I don't really know the situation as I don't care about cars. You're probably right, and I am just way too ignorant on the matter!

Also, favorite machine...I think it's all relative. My favorite that I've played is, hands down, TRON. I could go into so many reasons why. I also love me some Taxi. Older games are definitely worthy contenders, it's just that right now, even B-list games are going up in price.

This is a fun discussion. It's interesting to speculate and hear all different sides of the coin.

 

[Shaneus]

That it is. I'm enjoying it

Obviously I have quite strong feelings on what I think Stern I think are doing both right and wrong. But I think the period where Stern uses licensing of low shelf-life themes needs to stop. It's slowing down for sure (MET and AC/DC, and to a lesser extent Star Trek) but they're still flooding the market with machines that just aren't appealing long-term.

And I think they need to re-think their design pool. I was discussing designers with a friend a few weeks ago, and there are very, very few current (and even former) ones who can consistently knock them out of the park. I think John Borg and George Gomez are the biggest current offenders and need to take a massive step back and let some people step up who have better ideas about kinetics and flow. Literally the only games that have these are Steve Ritchie ones (with the VERY odd exception).

Hell, let me design a game!

 

[nicoga3000]

I'm catching up on old episodes of Coast 2 Coast Pinball, and your comment made me think of his discussion on the new Star Trek Pro/LE/Premium. What's REALLY burning me right now is the fact that Stern is presumably putting out cheaper feeling Pro's. Folks who own the LE or Premium and have played both stated there was a noticeable difference in the Pro (for the worse).

If that's true, Stern is not only hurting themselves with the themes they're taking on, but also with shitty quality. I mean, I will NEVER buy a NIB Stern. Not only is the cost crazy, but the quality seems mixed across the board. Bah.

I swear, if I had the funds, I would try and produce a game...

 

[Shaneus]

I was chatting to a mate about this tonight. You should be able to play a "Pro" machine and not think that it's a cut down version of anything. As in, you shouldn't be able to look at it and think: "This is the cheap version of something". As it is, pretty much every pro looks like it's a cheap knockoff of something else, with the odd exception (Metallica, Star Trek to an extent).

But couple that with their consistent software issues... there's really no reason to get one new. Having said that, a good friend bought an LE (you may have heard his name mentioned on there in the email bit... "Martin". I'm Shane BTW, you'll hear my name a lot on there ) and it's quite an incredible machine. Only had one major issue (sticking upper flipper) and the local distro has been incredible.

Suppose he has to be



Oh oh. I played an Avengers LE (or Premium) tonight. Holy hell, that is one massive turd of a game. None of the shots feel good AT ALL. There are no design elements on it that make any sense whatsoever. THE GUY WHO "DESIGNED" IT IS THE HEAD OF DESIGNERS AT STERN.

Think about that for a second.

 

[nicoga3000]

You're right - Pro machines SHOULDN'T feel like they're lacking, but as of lately, it sounds like they totally do. I don't have the funds to available to purchase a newer Stern Pro, and I DEFINITELY don't have the funds to get any new Premium/LE. That said, I rely solely on anecdotal evidence. The fact that Stern can't seem to put out a working software with the release of a machine is fucked up.

One reason that, even if I had the funds, I would wait on a new machine is software. So many games are missing or broken in terms of software features. Hell, the new X-Men code seems to have completely changed the game. Why the FUCK was it not like that at release?

Oh wait, Stern just wanted to get the game out and make that cash.

C'mon now, get your shit together...

Anyways, regarding Avengers, I was actually just looking into that machine a bit more. A guy local to me just bought a Pro for $3900. Said he's loving it, but it's hard to know the story since I haven't played the machine. So many people complain about stuck balls, lack of flow, boring/cheap feel...I wouldn't mind playing one that's been tweaked and dialed in, though. I've got no problem with shots that feel super tough but rewarding.

TRON is a great example of this - the game plays fast and has really hard shots. But man, when you hit them, it feels like gold. I'm not sure if Avengers has that same feel or if the shots are just cheap and not well designed. I found another Avengers Pro for sale for $3700, but for that price, I might as well buy 2 machines I know are awesome, haha.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

I ended up buying season 1 last night, really enjoying it. Some of the tables are a bit hard for me to play on the vita though, just too much stuff going on such a small screen and I struggle to make out what is what. Enjoy playing the older tables on it fine though, Big Shot is probably my favourite of those so far. They all look and play great on the PS3 though.

Just a tip, maybe an obvious one - did you know you can play the Vita versions vertical? I find that the table look way better this way.

 

[snaffles]

Just a tip, maybe an obvious one - did you know you can play the Vita versions vertical? I find that the table look way better this way.

Yes, that was helping, I have a hard time holding the system that way for long though, I have pretty big hands. I do prefer having physical buttons for the flippers too, but yeah it was definitely helping in being able to see the layout of the tables better, thanks for the suggestion.

The only table that I am still really struggling with is Cirqus Voltaire, I just don't seem to be able to get the hang of it. I struggle on Black Knight as well but that seems like it is just a hard game.

I am completely hooked on this game, think I'll grab season 2 this afternoon. The only thing I am not enjoying is the feeling of shame I get when I look at the online leaderboards.

 

[nicoga3000]

CV and me don't get along. I just don't like the game. It doesn't help that I never feel in control of the ball...

Also add me on PSN so I have more friends to compare scores with! Nicoga3000

 

[Shaneus]

I'm still yet to see, let alone play, a Tron. Thankfully, there are about a billion of them in Texas in a few weeks

 

[nicoga3000]

I'm still yet to see, let alone play, a Tron. Thankfully, there are about a billion of them in Texas in a few weeks

You will NOT be disappointed, I promise.

Having said that...

Get there early so you can try and get as many games in before having to go to the back of the line. The game is brutal

 

[ThreePiMatt]

"Who Dunnit" just released on Steam.

 

[Vyse24]

Newsletter 25 is out! PSN Super Patch! Info on the 3 conventions they'll be attending! And of course, the table hint!
http://sendgrid.com/wf/webmail?rp=Z...SMFpYSmZkWE5sY2w5cFpDSTZORE01T1RVMk16Z3lNRGg5

Victory is the FTotM (So it's not Indy 500 like I hastily thought it was)

Is #MAS4100 a license plate in High Speed?

 

[snaffles]

I realise I am years late to the party on all this stuff, but damn if it isn't a mess downloading all this stuff from PSN. I just purchased season 2, none of the tables were added to my download queue, and I had to go through the add ons section to find them all. /rant

Are the Steam versions generally the first ones updated? What is the lead time like for release to the other platforms for the tables?

 

[twinturbo2]

Newsletter 25 is out! PSN Super Patch! Info on the 3 conventions they'll be attending! And of course, the table hint!
http://sendgrid.com/wf/webmail?rp=Z...SMFpYSmZkWE5sY2w5cFpDSTZORE01T1RVMk16Z3lNRGg5

Victory is the FTotM (So it's not Indy 500 like I hastily thought it was)

Is #MAS4100 a license plate in High Speed?

Maybe we are getting Indy 500 as the next table. I wouldn't mind, it would come out just in time for Indy festivities to get underway.

And that pic looks like the Indy road course.

Gonna take a look at MAS4100, the only license plate in High Speed is KINGPIN, if I'm not mistaken.

EDIT: Googling and looking at the IPDB comes up with nothing. Gonna see if PAF has something.

 

[Vyse24]

PAF seems to have come to the conclusion that it's Junk Yard as MAS4100 is a model# for a razor plane which is used for RC planes. RC planes uses propellers, which is junk in Junk Yard. Farfetch'd, but it's the only good theory so far.

 

[twinturbo2]

PAF seems to have come to the conclusion that it's Junk Yard as MAS4100 is a model# for a razor plane which is used for RC planes. RC planes uses propellers, which is junk in Junk Yard. Farfetch'd, but it's the only good theory so far.

But I want Indy 500, and the previous clues this season had some sort of relevance to the table of the month.

 

[twinturbo2]

I don't think it's Junk Yard, because that game and WhoDunnit were both co-designed by Dwight Sullivan and Barry Oursler, and I don't think FS will have two consecutive tables from the same design team in a row.

BTW, WhoDunnit is awesome. Great music and atmosphere.

 

[Shaneus]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!

IT'S HIGH SPEED!!!!!!!

Edit: As soon as someone said to look at the plates, I ran over to look at the backglass... but I knew I'd seen those letters on my machine before. PS. You guys heard it here first, before PAF

BTW I think the Junk Yard speculation is due to a data file in the TPA folder on PC indicating it. But it could well be a red herring or just a dud file (although it does have references to filenames like tips and stuff for JY, so it's probably a legit file). But a car identifier as a license plate is more likely than a part number for some plane in another game, IMO.