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The Pinball Arcade |OT| play them all from Soho to Brighton

Shaneus

Member
I don't think it's the consensus, just why *I* think it's shit. I managed to arse (what seemed to be) an awesome score when I played the 360 one. I've played a few of the newer Stern tables IRL and there just doesn't feel like there's any soul or passion put into them. But to be more specific about Ripley's, the top of the playfield just feels too packed. Like, if you miss something, you're highly likely to hit another loop perfectly just because everything's so close.

IMO, anyway :)
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
To clarify for most of you all, MM (at least on iOS) is definitely not as accurate as it should be. Flippers are definitely too far apart and the ball is *far* too light. Note: I'm aware of the difference between a fast table due to angle and one due to ball weight. If MM was fast due to angle, then it would struggle to make most of the ramps and the loops would be slow as well. As it is, it's like in some areas (most if not all, actually) the ball weighs a fraction of what it should, meaning it takes loops at a ridiculous speed and you don't have time to react or sometimes even for the DMD animation to finish. If the ball had the weight it does in, say, Bride... it'd be a big improvement.

Also, the ball will get stuck amongst the jets far too frequently (IRL it takes around 7-8 goes to get the full 40 jet hits, here it takes maybe 2 or 3)... although thinking about it, this could be due to ball weight. And there's no texture on the other side of the drawbridge. And there's no red light on the castle when you hit it.

I've spent a lot of time on this machine in the past ;) The PHOF version is still the definitive one at this stage, with it feeling a lot closer to the real machine.

I played a whole lot of Medieval Madness at the Menlo Park Round Table Pizza back in the day, and I pretty much disagree with all of this. Feels pretty close to dead on to me, and the space between the flippers is accurate to my memory. The ball does seem to move faster than it should on iOS, but I wouldn't say it feels light. It just seems to move through the ramps at double time for some reason. It's not a weight thing so much as it seems like the ramps are greased or something.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
I don't think it's the consensus, just why *I* think it's shit. I managed to arse (what seemed to be) an awesome score when I played the 360 one. I've played a few of the newer Stern tables IRL and there just doesn't feel like there's any soul or passion put into them. But to be more specific about Ripley's, the top of the playfield just feels too packed. Like, if you miss something, you're highly likely to hit another loop perfectly just because everything's so close.

IMO, anyway :)

Well it might be only your opinion, but I happen to 100% agree with that.
Btw, I've always sucked on Black Hole and this version is no exception: What are you supposed to aim for with the left flipper?
 

Shaneus

Member
I played a whole lot of Medieval Madness at the Menlo Park Round Table Pizza back in the day, and I pretty much disagree with all of this. Feels pretty close to dead on to me, and the space between the flippers is accurate to my memory. The ball does seem to move faster than it should on iOS, but I wouldn't say it feels light. It just seems to move through the ramps at double time for some reason. It's not a weight thing so much as it seems like the ramps are greased or something.
You might be right on the ramps only thing. But the one thing that lead me to the conclusion of the ball weight is just how often it gets stuck in the jets. I'd have thought if it was more realistic, it would get at *most* 10 hits, but I've had it stay in there for maybe 25-30 on multiple occasions.

So yeah, definitely spot on about the ramps, but I think there's more to it than that. If the balls had the same weight as on BoP I think it would feel a lot closer to the real thing, though.

Well it might be only your opinion, but I happen to 100% agree with that.
Btw, I've always sucked on Black Hole and this version is no exception: What are you supposed to aim for with the left flipper?
Left flipper? Jump into the table menu -> instructions -> multiball. It'll guide you through and you'll see it's used (at least) for hitting targets on the right hand side to lock the ball on the main playfield :)
 
Mmm, i found a bug with the table views in Machine Bride of Pinbot (ipad, playing in landscape mode), once you activate the multiball mode, the camera zooms out, that´s the normal behavior, but once you finish the mode, the camera remains zoomed out until you lock/lost another ball, and that sucks.
There's also a number of sound issues with Bride of Pinbot, like the music dropping out for a while
 

Triz

Member
I wish I could fix the damn facebook log in on my iphone. Ive never been able to sync up with facebook so my scores never get put on the leaderbaords. I had a MM game today where I got 250 million. ;( Never the less I will double dip once the DLC tables launch on the ps3. I just cant help buying them on my phone when they come out early.
 

Shaneus

Member
Holy shit. I'd never actually seen a Black Hole played IRL before (a friend has the table, but it needs a little bit of work done and is actually in storage) but this makes it look like an amazing table to suck people in. No wonder it was the highest earner or seller or whatever for a while. Looks insane.
 

Dacvak

No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Any word on when Space Shuttle is coming out? That's my favorite table.

Also, how similar is the iOS version to the console version? I've got the game on my iPad, and I'm not super impressed, compared to Zen. Is it better on consoles?
 
Honestly, I've never gotten the pooping that is done in Pinball FX for its physics... I realize pinball experts appreciate a "perfect" simulation, but comparing Pinball FX to this game (and simulators like it) is a bit like comparing Forza Motorsport to a semi-arcade racer like Project Gotham. The latter is not trying to be a sim and failing. Its physics are a balance of real and fantasy to facilitate the game design.

I can go back and forth between this and FX without FX feeling bad, personally. They're just different.

Same for me, I play and love both series.
 

Shaneus

Member
I've never actually played PFX that much (a little, but not massively). Pro Pinball did a great job of delivering fantasy tables that were damn close to what you'd see in a real life arcade. The PFX ones just seem a little *too* impossible to exist IRL, hence my preference for PA and PP.

Edit: Pinball, but not necessarily Pinball Arcade related... Dutch Pinball does a DMD conversion/update to Bride of Pinbot. Cool as all hell.
 

Agent X

Member
Any word on when the flipper lag problem is going to be fixed on PS3?

I've also encountered yet another bug. In Ripley's Believe It or Not, one of the standard goals is to make the skill shot. On the Vita, for whatever reason, the game doesn't count it toward the goal. I've made the skill shot, gotten the bonus points, but it won't mark off the goal. This means I can't get the trophy for beating all standard goals, and I can't unlock the wizard goals. Nice one.

Between the myriad bugs on both the PS3 and Vita versions, and the developer's apparent lack of care towards acknowledging or fixing the bugs on either of these systems, I cannot recommend that anyone purchase this game. It's too bad, because the game without so many bugs would be a total winner, but as it stands now it's unquestionably my biggest gaming disappointment of the year.
 
Any word on when Space Shuttle is coming out? That's my favorite table.

Also, how similar is the iOS version to the console version? I've got the game on my iPad, and I'm not super impressed, compared to Zen. Is it better on consoles?
The main differences are, in the console versions they darkened the playfields a little bit and made all the lights really light things up, so the lights look a lot better. And the ball reflects on the boards.

Theater of Magic, XBox 720p video
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
Between the myriad bugs on both the PS3 and Vita versions, and the developer's apparent lack of care towards acknowledging or fixing the bugs on either of these systems, I cannot recommend that anyone purchase this game. It's too bad, because the game without so many bugs would be a total winner, but as it stands now it's unquestionably my biggest gaming disappointment of the year.
I wouldn't go that far. For $10 I got TotAN, which plays well enough for my tastes. I'm just now branching out to ToM, and it's pretty sweet. I'm playing on the PS3, and whatever lag it is you're experiencing, I've not noticed at all. Maybe I'm just not as attuned to these kinds of things, but really it's about as good as I remember the disc version being.

And when I'm done with these two tables, i have two more to learn and practice.

And I'll totally be picking up Medieval Madness. I tried the free version on my iPod Touch today and it reminded me just how awesome that table really can be. As soon as it's available for PS3, I'll get it.
 

Agent X

Member
Well, that's one of the weird things. The lag seems inconsistent. Judging from what I've seen on various forums, it seems to vary. Some people say they never experience it at all. Even for me, sometimes the lag seems reduced, although it never disappears entirely. Regardless of that, it's still a gamble every time I fire up the game on PS3, and I think enough people on the Internet have reported it that it ought to be investigated.

Meanwhile, the Vita version doesn't suffer any control problems, but almost every table has at least one or two fairly noticeable bugs, some of which greatly impact play. Just quickly going from memory, Arabian Nights displays the "Free Play" message on the scoreboard instead of certain event notifiers (such as locking a ball for multiball), Ripley's has a broken goal requirement that prevents trophy/wizard goals from unlocking, and Black Hole has a non-working rollover at the top of the playfield. None of these bugs are present on PS3...although PS3 has another set of bugs to call its very own, like Ripley's often getting stuck panning the camera over the table instead of loading a ball into the plunger (forcing you to quit and restart) and occasional crashes. They're enough of a deterrent that I barely touch the PS3 version anymore (one of my friends already quit playing it entirely), and I'm hesitant to invest any significant time on the Vita game also, since bugs are impeding my progress on that version.

Before the game came out, I really liked the concept, and was planning on buying a lot of DLC to support them. However, it's turned out to be such a disappointment, and the developers don't seem to care at all about fixing the bugs. At this point, I wouldn't waste one red cent on the DLC, since the initial set of tables are so glitchy. I'd much prefer that they fix up the base game first, and then perhaps I might consider buying DLC in the future.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Before the game came out, I really liked the concept, and was planning on buying a lot of DLC to support them. However, it's turned out to be such a disappointment, and the developers don't seem to care at all about fixing the bugs. At this point, I wouldn't waste one red cent on the DLC, since the initial set of tables are so glitchy. I'd much prefer that they fix up the base game first, and then perhaps I might consider buying DLC in the future.

They have been patching bugs on basic tables with every update... for android/iOS (PS3/360/Vita just released so they haven't had a chance to get a patch out). The recent update with MM & BoP fixed quite a few bugs on the original tables as well going by some comments in the forums, but the review process for consoles seems to be longer than that for Apple/Android.

I think your best bet is just coming back to the game in 3-4 months, you'll most likely have 10 tables to play then, and many if not all of the bugs will be out of the original tables by then. They are constantly improving the game and fixing bugs, they just have their hands full with the 7 or 8 platforms they're supporting.
 

Agent X

Member
I think your best bet is just coming back to the game in 3-4 months, you'll most likely have 10 tables to play then, and many if not all of the bugs will be out of the original tables by then. They are constantly improving the game and fixing bugs, they just have their hands full with the 7 or 8 platforms they're supporting.

I was wondering if that might have been the problem here. They decided to release the game nearly simultaneously for so many different platforms, and by doing so bit off more than they could chew. They're trying to support all the versions with patches and bug fixes, but are spreading themselves thin.

It would be nice if they could at least acknowledge the problems with the PS3/Vita versions, like they did for some of the other versions. They were very quick to come out and say they'd patch the Xbox 360 version to improve the lighting model (a mere aesthetic change), whereas the both PS3 and Vita versions have major bugs that are bordering on game-breaking yet they haven't uttered a word about them. If they'd at least recognize the bugs and pledge to fix them (whether it takes a week, a month, or whatever), then I'd rest easier knowing that they're aware of them. I'd be happy to pick up the game again once it's fixed. However, they've been completely silent on the PS3/Vita, and that's highly discouraging.
 

Glix

Member
I'm loving the game but the bugs are terrible. It shows me as one of my PSN FRIENDS on the leaderboards. The friend doesn't even own the game!!!! Other bugs are brutal too, but that one is just too annoying.

I've only played the Vita version.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The "Ball through the flipper" bug on the Vita is unbearable. If a patch isn't released soon it'll be a shame.
 

Cardigan

Member
We are very excited to announce that the next two Pinball Arcade downloadable tables will be Cirqus Voltaire and Funhouse! Both of these tables will begin appearing on Pinball Arcade platforms in May!

By their current schedule, I'm guessing this means a mid-May release for Android/iOS, and a June release for consoles :/
 
Responding to questions on FB, they've said they hope to have these tables up on consoles in May, and they are going to price them at $5 for each pair.
 
Oh fuck, Funhouse, one of my favourite tables ever, yeah, i´ve already played this a thousand times in the Williams Collection (twice, ps3-psp) but i love it, i was tempted to buy a real one some time ago but was quite expensive...this is bad, too much tables to play.

Anyway, looks like the Vita version is bad after all, i´m seriously thinking about skipping the Ps3-Vita game, and continue to buy tables for the ios version, it sucks because i would prefer real buttons, but the touch controls are not so bad after all and the game looks gorgeous.

Will buy the pc version too, a pinball cabinet setup with 2/3 screens and this game...godlike.

I guess that Farsight tried to pull more than they could releasing all this versions at the same time, it´s a damn shame because Williams Collection is an excelent pinball game as a whole, while The Pinball Arcade is a game with great tables and good gameplay but filled with bugs and glitches...we could talk too about the new tables release dates, because having to wait weeks between versions looks bad and sucks, but that´s not entirely they fault.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Oh fuck, Funhouse, one of my favourite tables ever, yeah, i´ve already played this a thousand times in the Williams Collection (twice, ps3-psp) but i love it, i was tempted to buy a real one some time ago but was quite expensive...this is bad, too much tables to play.

Anyway, looks like the Vita version is bad after all, i´m seriously thinking about skipping the Ps3-Vita game, and continue to buy tables for the ios version, it sucks because i would prefer real buttons, but the touch controls are not so bad after all and the game looks gorgeous.

Will buy the pc version too, a pinball cabinet setup with 2/3 screens and this game...godlike.

I guess that Farsight tried to pull more than they could releasing all this versions at the same time, it´s a damn shame because Williams Collection is an excelent pinball game as a whole, while The Pinball Arcade is a game with great tables and good gameplay but filled with bugs and glitches...we could talk too about the new tables release dates, because having to wait weeks between versions looks bad and sucks, but that´s not entirely they fault.

They more than likely will be patching the bugs out, I think you may be over-reacting a little. There's no platform without bugs atm, iOS is affected by them as well, just in different way (BoP highscores don't save for instance, and still no game center support), and people say there's lag on iOS as well though it doesn't bother me at all.

Realize they've only just released the game on consoles/vita, no patches have gone out yet. They said a while ago they will be patching bugs and improving released tables along with releasing new DLC tables monthly, and for the systems that have had patches, they have done so... so I don't think it's a stretch to believe the PS3/Vita/360 will see bug patches down the road as well.

Also, speaking of the PC release, they also commented on their FB they hope to have an update on it soon... hopefully they are working something out with Valve!
 

Shaneus

Member
It really does beat me how they manage to release the Williams and Gottlieb collections with such a (relatively) bug-free (if not exactly feature-laden, hullo online scores) release yet with these tables, they're quite buggy in comparison. Especially something like Medieval Madness. It also sucks knowing that it looks like they'll only patch with table releases, so if you discover a nasty bug a day or two after launch, it'll be a month until it's fixed.

Really sucks, and totally preventing me from enjoying Medieval Madness.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
It really does beat me how they manage to release the Williams and Gottlieb collections with such a (relatively) bug-free (if not exactly feature-laden, hullo online scores) release yet with these tables, they're quite buggy in comparison. Especially something like Medieval Madness. It also sucks knowing that it looks like they'll only patch with table releases, so if you discover a nasty bug a day or two after launch, it'll be a month until it's fixed.

Really sucks, and totally preventing me from enjoying Medieval Madness.

I wonder how much actually running the ROMs vs just creating a simulation affects it, notice from the notes about the upcoming tables:

We are very excited to announce that the next two Pinball Arcade downloadable tables will be Cirqus Voltaire and Funhouse!

Cirqus Voltaire was designed by John Popadiuk and released under the Bally label in 1997. It features a dot-matrix display mounted in the playfield, a pop bumper which rises during gameplay, and a moving Ringmaster head. This table makes nearly everyone’s top-10 list of the best pinball tables of all time!

Funhouse was designed by Pat Lawlor and released by Williams in 1990. This is an iconic table featuring a talking animatronic head named Rudy who responds in real-time to game events, including taunting the payer and following the ball with its eyes. Funhouse was featured in FarSight’s Pinball Hall of Fame several years ago, but this version is all-new and uses our ROM-emulation technology instead of the scripted rules simulation we used previously.

Both of these tables will begin appearing on Pinball Arcade platforms in May!

Maybe scripting allowed them to make some of the physics and rules less complex and thus less bugs?
 
They more than likely will be patching the bugs out, I think you may be over-reacting a little. There's no platform without bugs atm, iOS is affected by them as well, just in different way (BoP highscores don't save for instance, and still no game center support), and people say there's lag on iOS as well though it doesn't bother me at all.

Realize they've only just released the game on consoles/vita, no patches have gone out yet. They said a while ago they will be patching bugs and improving released tables along with releasing new DLC tables monthly, and for the systems that have had patches, they have done so... so I don't think it's a stretch to believe the PS3/Vita/360 will see bug patches down the road as well.

Also, speaking of the PC release, they also commented on their FB they hope to have an update on it soon... hopefully they are working something out with Valve!

Well, yeah, they can eventually fix the issues, and i hope they do, but for now, this game is more or less a mess in certain regards.

Don´t get me wrong, i´m really enjoying the game, but some issues are really annoying, and i understand that some people feel dissapointed with them.
 

Shaneus

Member
I wonder how much actually running the ROMs vs just creating a simulation affects it, notice from the notes about the upcoming tables:



Maybe scripting allowed them to make some of the physics and rules less complex and thus less bugs?
Possibly... but it doesn't seem to make much sense given that most of the machines they're porting to (at least, the iOS and Android ones) don't hold a candle to their console counterparts. You'd think it'd make sense to do some kind of HLE ROM-type thing like they spoke about with the collections on those devices, then concentrate on full emulation on things that can handle it?

I mean, provided you program the entire ruleset (I doubt it would be that hard if you have an adequate scripting engine. Shit, it's pinball... not like you need AI or anything, just a shitload of if/then/else statements) then there should be no difference, except the obvious benefits of speed and guaranteed bug-freeness.

See, I thought they emulated the ROMs on both. But knowing they went from what seemed to be a perfectly adequate scripting engine to emulation just blows my mind. Unless it's for porting simplicity when bringing over so many tables, but they're not even bringing tables over properly :/

/endrant
 

Shaneus

Member
Not talking about the emulation, but the bringing of tables over. Flippers too far apart. No texture on inside of drawbridge. Balls WAY too fast on all ramps. Finishing bug where it takes a few seconds from the last ball draining to credit/score display. Kinda what I'm getting at... what's the point of emulating ROMs to save time (assuming that's why they're doing it) when they'd have to spend even longer fixing bugs they should've discovered in the first place? Guarantee that with any one of the regulars on PAF or even here they would've discovered those problems within the space of an hour.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
The flipper spacing seems pretty much in line with how I remember the machine. It's why I used to not play the game IRL because I would lose a lot of balls cheaply, but with the amount of multi-ball events you can enounter, it does make sense from a design standpoint to have it that way.

But yea, the rails seem a bit too quick and that delay at the end of the game is annoying. These are not game breaking things .. just minor annoyances that can be easily corrected.

I feel like part of the problem on the 'too fast' rails is the dynamic zooming that happens in game. If you turn that feature off it can help improve your reaction time to counter it.
 

Shaneus

Member
I did turn off the zooming. By holding down the camera button it locks it. It's still shit.

And man, you have no idea how much time I put into MM. If it went SDTM as much IRL as it did in the game, I'd not have played it as much as I did. There's some interesting analysis on pinballarcadefans.com about this issue if you find it as fascinating as I do :)
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
I did turn off the zooming. By holding down the camera button it locks it. It's still shit.

And man, you have no idea how much time I put into MM. If it went SDTM as much IRL as it did in the game, I'd not have played it as much as I did. There's some interesting analysis on pinballarcadefans.com about this issue if you find it as fascinating as I do :)
What is SDTM and where is this analysis on that site? I presume in the forums, but ... well, you already know where it is, so please do tell. ;)
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
I wonder if all the DLC packs are going to be "1 PHOF table + 1 new table"? I know they have to get all the PHOF stuff out the door, but as someone who still owns PHOF, it's a little disappointing.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Any word on when Space Shuttle is coming out? That's my favorite table.

Also, how similar is the iOS version to the console version? I've got the game on my iPad, and I'm not super impressed, compared to Zen. Is it better on consoles?

It looks much better. Fuck, Black Hole looks uncanny. Too bad TotAN has a bit too much of visible aliasing for me to enjoy it fully, but the lighting on the console versions makes the game look a lot nicer and gives it a "I'm actually playing in dim-lit arcade" feel that is completely absent on iOS, add to that sense of realism the ball's reflections which really give it a whole other dimension and visual "weight" to the ball, and you've got something sinply... beautiful :)
It needs AA on same tables tho, some ramps have a tad too many jaggies when looked upon certain views.
 

vg260

Member
The good thing is as they release updates they are fixing problems with tables, so hopefully they address these issues as time goes on. :)

I actually find the UI to be a better fit on the iPhone than the 360, that's another area that definitely needs work.

They did respond in PS3 blog comments that they do plan to update the menu system and features as the library grows.
 

AEREC

Member
Just bought the 360 version and played for about 20 minutes...sometimes the flippers will get stuck in the up position...this happened twice in the time I played it.

I don't recall this ever happening on the iOS version.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Just bought the 360 version and played for about 20 minutes...sometimes the flippers will get stuck in the up position...this happened twice in the time I played it.

I don't recall this ever happening on the iOS version.

Never happened to me but boy it'd suck if this was a widespread problem. Which table?
 
Not talking about the emulation, but the bringing of tables over. Flippers too far apart. No texture on inside of drawbridge. Balls WAY too fast on all ramps. Finishing bug where it takes a few seconds from the last ball draining to credit/score display. Kinda what I'm getting at... what's the point of emulating ROMs to save time (assuming that's why they're doing it) when they'd have to spend even longer fixing bugs they should've discovered in the first place? Guarantee that with any one of the regulars on PAF or even here they would've discovered those problems within the space of an hour.
I would guess that they aren't emulating ROMs to save one whit of time, they are emulating ROMs so that the games are more accurate. It isn't just "watch the real machine, read the rules and guess how it works" anymore.
 

Shaneus

Member
I would guess that they aren't emulating ROMs to save one whit of time, they are emulating ROMs so that the games are more accurate. It isn't just "watch the real machine, read the rules and guess how it works" anymore.
But it's essentially a bunch of (albeit complex) if-then-else statements, obviously not counting the screen animation or sound. It's not like getting a balls-out accurate emulation of a videogame where the entire concept of it hinges on every single little thing each of the processors do.

For example, take the delay at the end of Medieval Madness. If it was a "translated" game, that delay wouldn't be occurring and it would feel just like real life (see: WPC). But because it's emulated, due to an odd programming technique or state (I forget the exact term) of the original ROM, the player has to wait a noticeable amount of time (unlike the machine itself).
 
Started playing this. You know the tables are really good once you get past the shitty physics and constant game breaking bugs. I've had the ball go through my flipper 6 times and had the game fail to start twice when I clicked on the table. The camera would just float around and nothing would happen.
 

Shaneus

Member
I'm currently hooked on TotAN. That spinning lamp and the sitar-thing at the end... so cathartic. Getting to the "rescue the princess" unlimited multiball is hectic and stressful as shit, but so good.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
I have this for my phone. Theatre of Magic has me by the balls. It's so addicting. I squeaked 1.7 billion on it last night.
Nice score. I just hit 1.6 billion this morning. I had been mostly playing TotAN because it was one of my favorites from the Williams disc, but finally overdosed and moved on to a new table. I'm taking them one at a time, slowly, to enjoy each table on its own without switching between tables. Theater of Magic is just fantastic, and is making the wait for Medieval Madness bearable.
 

Cardigan

Member
ToM is probably my favorite. Great flow, variety of mission, no cheapo drains. Man, I can't get into Ripley's at all though, what a turd of a table.
 
I'm currently hooked on TotAN. That spinning lamp and the sitar-thing at the end... so cathartic. Getting to the "rescue the princess" unlimited multiball is hectic and stressful as shit, but so good.

It's about all I've played since I bought the game. Still not good enough to get to the rescue part yet, though. I've gotten 5 maybe 6 jewels at most.
 
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