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The Pinball Arcade |OT| play them all from Soho to Brighton
- Thread starter AMUSIX
- Start date
Minsc
Gold Member
Well the Gamecenter update should be hitting in a month or so, so if Sony doesn't approve the first DLC pack in the next two months, at least there's hope for that
Edit: I assume you've tried removing the app entire, and re-downloading it instead of just doing the updates of course (and are on the latest non-jail broken iOS version, who knows what factors not being up to date may attribute)... shame it's still buggy for people.
Minsc
Gold Member
They describe it as a work in progress ("first pass"), so hopefully. I figure that's why they default it to off as well lol, can't use a 5fps framerate. Even if software improvements don't get it entirely all the way there, there's always next year's hardware revision to pick up the slack.
If they've granted Farsight an exception, hopefully they'll speed it through.
They really have been dicked over with that release. Hopefully in the time spent waiting for MS' approval process they've been working on the PC release. Seriously wondering where the news is for it, you'd think they'd forgotten completely.
They really have been dicked over with that release. Hopefully in the time spent waiting for MS' approval process they've been working on the PC release. Seriously wondering where the news is for it, you'd think they'd forgotten completely.
They dicked themselves over by requiring such a large update to the main game that doesn't even include the tables. Pinball FX2 doesn't seem to have any trouble adding dozens of tables without requiring a huge title update for each one.
Minsc
Gold Member
Yeah, they should really move their goals to quarterly updates for consoles, or every two months at most to keep better in line with how they treat developers. It'd probably be an improvement from now anyway!
Why does everyone keep putting this on the console manufacturers?
They knew before the product was released that their business model was based around frequently adding more tables as DLC.
They knew before the product was released that there is a 4MB title update limit on 360.
They somehow failed to reconcile these two factors during development and released a faulty product. I'm pretty annoyed at this point that I spent any money on it based on the promise of future content that they can't deliver. This is 100% on Farsight.
Yeah, I'm really torn on this. I love the what they're doing in theory, bringing pinball to the masses and legally preserving these machines for years to come, but they're far too disorganised to be able to do it. They need some proper management and to set some realistic goals.
I'd be concerned that we wouldn't get TZ/TNG by the end of the year like they've mentioned.
Minsc
Gold Member
Then why does Zen who's been doing this for years also still have problems? From TPA forums:
And once you start looking at other products, like SMB, where it can have 30-something updates on Steam before it has a single update on XBLA, well that's saying something.
I think proposing they move to 2-4 month releases on consoles is not "putting anything on console manufacturers," it's recognizing the reality of them. They were wrong to promise monthly DLC for consoles, and I think there's no way that can ever work the way it is... so they should move to every 2 months or whatever it takes. You'll still see the same amount of tables (2 DLC packs of 4 tables every two months instead of 1 pack of two tables every month), but it'll be cheaper for them and give them more of a buffer if anything gets rejected to go through the month long process again.
They're new to this type of product, it's really not that hard to see. They screwed up and didn't realize the nightmare of making a digital platform on consoles. Even people who are experienced in dealing with Sony/MS approval processes (see the Zen example above) run in to lots of issues on consoles that they don't elsewhere.
Also, to all the people buying this through MS (and maybe Sony), are you even aware there's a fixed number of updates MS allows? At some point, MS will simply not allow them to release more DLC, so this product has a end of life date for the 360. Also every DLC they put out is reportedly a more expensive fee from MS than the last.
Pinball FX 2 somehow managed to get 15 or so tables released before they hit the crunch. Farsight? Zero. They didn't even allow for their first update. They completely botched this.
Minsc
Gold Member
They did, I'm not arguing there, just that they seem to be doing fine elsewhere (Sony now has dates, iOS/Mac and Android all working fine). And it's only going to get worse eventually, even if it gets better for a while, as it's forced to come to an end or becomes too expensive to continue with on the 360.
They really, really botched the PC version, if you want to talk about them screwing up look at that one. It doesn't even have a distributor or a date at all.
Edit: also to expand further on the Zen comparison, it seems Zen only did about 2-3 updates a year... so that's more in line with the quarterly suggestion I mention to you initially. And look at what happens when they gave a date to their fans for the upcoming Marvel tables (that are now late):
BarbieBobomb said:
added_time
Member
That must really suck for Zen. Having the Avengers license when the movie was so hot would have been gold for them... now its going to release so far after the movie when no one is thinking about it anymore.
I place the blame on Microsoft and Farsight for the delays on 360. Microsoft has very stupid rules... however the one thing Farsight did know about was the 4mb limit beforehand, so they should have thought about that before the game got released.
I place the blame on Microsoft and Farsight for the delays on 360. Microsoft has very stupid rules... however the one thing Farsight did know about was the 4mb limit beforehand, so they should have thought about that before the game got released.
BolognaSoup
Member
God I can't wait to get my new computer. So tired of living in the dark ages with these consoles and dealing with this nonsense. I don't plan on buying any more tables for the XBLA version. I'm just going to switch to PC.
ZedIndyLil
Member
https://www.facebook.com/pinballarcade
They raised the money for The Twilight Zone! I'm actually shocked (and happy, too). The power of Kickstarter is amazing.
They raised the money for The Twilight Zone! I'm actually shocked (and happy, too). The power of Kickstarter is amazing.
I think Vita gets them today in NA.
PS3 later this month. Not absolutely positive about that. For US PSN:
- Medival Madness + Bride of Pinbot are coming today for Vita and June 26th for PS3
- Cirqus Voltaire + Funhouse are coming July 3rd for Vita and June 26th for PS3
No date for 360.
I think Vita gets them today in NA.
Thanks! I have the NA Vita version, so today's is the day! Although I'm busy with Gravity Rush!
I've tried the PS3 demo but it seems like the game is broken on that platform, there's a terrible control lag which makes it unplayable.
Also the Vita version is so much better thanks to the vertical screen :O
It seems they passed the approval process. Should be out "soon", but with no advertising on the blog yet, I'd guess it won't be coming this week.
Baron
Member
Holy crap, I thought I was insane, but I'm glad others see the lag on PS3 as well. I own it on 360 and d/l'ed the demo on PS3 to see how it ran, and was astonished at the lag on the paddles. I missed ball after ball, and couldn't figure out why. How has this lag gotten through QA? The game on PS3 is fundamentally broken because of this. Surely they have a fix coming? Are they even aware of this?
Minsc
Gold Member
I believe FarSight was last blaming it on your TV (the people experiencing lag problems). Apparently there's a few people at TPA forums who have tested the lag and it goes away when they connect the PS3 to a HDMI input on a PC monitor.
Baron
Member
That would sound reasonable if I weren't using my PS3 through HDMI on a PC monitor and have been experiencing said lag ad nauseam. All processing is turned off as well, it's a Samsung tv/monitor, I believe they call it the "Just Scan" setting.
It's really weird. I never noticed it, and I've enjoyed the game endlessly.
Then my bud from work comes over one night and he's like "what's with the lag in the controls?"
I was completely floored. I'd never mentioned it, and he noticed on his first try.
So, yeah, it's there. Somehow, it completely doesn't bother me.
Minsc
Gold Member
Seems like something went awry in the vita update. Looks pretty poor compared to the iPad/iPhone version too (and that's an outdated version), didn't realize it was that much worse (and that's still a step down from console/best quality)! They sure have their fixing cut out for them.
Wow... OUCH. Looks like a texture LOD thing or something to me. I wonder if it improves closer up?
But man, how can they not see that in testing? Honestly, they really mustn't test at all. Would take one dude one day.
I just kinda feel sorry for them... have the right motivation behind everything but their dreams were far, far bigger than what they're actually capable of. Just want them to stop screwing basic things up
Ben Morales
Member
Medieval Madness is playing nice and smooth on my Vita. Maybe try powering down your Vita and restarting? Does anyone else notice a framerate issue with this table?
Minsc
Gold Member
Better lighting was never promised for Vita, only consoles (they didn't even put it on the Mac release). Recently they confirmed that they'd add it in (and even put an experimental version for the iPad 3), but I'd expect many months to pass before it hits Vita. 360 was started much earlier (and the lead platform), and that won't hit til the summer.
Wonko_C
Member
It's true, the anisotropic filtering is gone. Now it looks just like Williams Hall of Fame on PSP.
Agent X
Member
Oh no! It's a shame to read about this. The Vita game actually looked great before.
In that thread from the Pinball Arcade forums, a FarSight employee said that they're aware of the problem and are working on it. That's good news, but I wonder how long it will take, and if the other problems (such as non-functioning targets and goals/trophies that don't trigger properly) were corrected.
That's weird. Most other games that have DLC packs with substantial content usually have trophies. The lack of trophies might discourage some people from getting the DLC who would have bought it otherwise.
Also, the PS3 DLC hasn't been released yet. Are they still doing "buy once, get both" for the DLC on PS3 & Vita, or did they change their minds on that?
Even though the DLC was already delayed for weeks, it still has a "rushed" feeling to it. I wonder if they wrapped up their work on the DLC pack and rushed it out the door just to placate impatient Vita owners. It doesn't look like they're putting their heart and soul into it anymore.
After so many delays on updates (both patches and DLC packs) for the console releases, I have a gut feeling that (perhaps internally, even if they don't publicly admit it yet) FarSight is the process of transitioning to purely an iOS/Android game developer. Look, they've released what, 3 or 4 DLC updates for iOS and Android already, along with several patches in a timely manner. They seem to treat iOS and Android customers well. Meanwhile, those of us who chose to purchase the console versions instead are left holding the bag, waiting months for patches and DLC updates that mostly never materialize...and when one finally squeaks out (as in the case of the Vita update), they unbelievably managed to downgrade the game in at least one blatantly obvious manner. It makes me wonder if they're doing it on purpose at this point. It's painfully evident from their actions that the only platforms they truly care about anymore are iOS and Android, and all the other platforms are disposable.
Dreamwriter
Member
If you read up on the situation, you are totally mistaken. This DLC we just got was probably finished over a month ago - they submitted the DLC to both Sony and Microsoft at roughly the same time they submitted to Apple and Android. But Sony and Microsoft have a HUGE delay between submission and release, and apparently FarSight had problems with both of them not accepting the first submission. Apparently the minimum time from submission to release for the console manufacturers is 30 days, while iOS takes about 2 weeks and Android just a few days, and since there were problems, the submissions took longer than expected this time.
Note that they've had issues with both iOS and Android releases too (I had to wait I think 3 weeks extra to get the first two tables for my iPad 3), the difference is those platforms let them release new submissions with fixes relatively quickly.
Agent X
Member
I understand that the approval process for console games is vastly different than iOS/Android. Still, there's been a gap of over two months between the release of the first DLC pack on Android, and the corresponding DLC on Vita. Shouldn't they have anticipated this better?
Then there's the PC version, which appears to have vanished altogether. If Steam won't sell it, then surely they could pursue other outlets.
I don't know about you, but all of this, combined with their lackluster attitude towards the console problems, tells me they don't give a darn about consoles or computers anymore. After all, they still haven't acknowledged the problems with lag on the PS3, despite numerous complaints about it. Then they took the Vita version (already full of its own set of glitches) and sabotaged it by making the graphics noticeably worse than before! Whether it's deliberate or not, the point is that they've essentially set up the console versions to fail. I'd bet that sales of the console versions are on a steep decline due to word spreading about the problems. With sales slipping, at some point they'll just concede that the gargantuan amount of effort required to fix it all up is a "lost cause" and not worth the paltry number of sales they'd get from it, and they hope that the devout fans will understand...but meanwhile, if you want the latest and greatest version, you can just rebuy it on iOS or Android instead!
In light of all of this, they had the audacity to beg and plead people to "donate" money to fund the next DLC pack (which I'm sure iOS and Android will get quickly, and all other platforms will be summarily ignored...business as usual). They should be as dedicated to fixing the existing problems for people who paid for the base game before they bother working on yet another DLC pack, which (if the Vita DLC is anything to go by) will probably be another bugfest and muck up the base game anyway.
I'd love to support the game some more. I really would. But the game has been so fraught with problems that at this point I'm almost wishing FarSight would completely give up on it, and relinquish the video game rights to the pinball games back to the owners, so that they could be licensed out to a more competent developer in the future.
I for one have been really happy with the new XBLA versions of Joust and Robotron that replaced the old versions.
Seriously, if these guys don't deliver, commercial pinball "emulation" is dead. It's back to fan community development. Which is great, but not going to get on XBLA or Vita.
added_time
Member
Zen Studios was saying how they were talking with Farsight for a plan to combine Zen Pinball/Pinball FX with Farsight's classic tables. That would have been the best for everyone. Zen has a great interface for their game and presents it in a professional way which would then leave Farsight to just add classic tables to it and not worry about the other stuff. It's too bad that never came to be.
Agent X
Member
The funny thing is that I remember reading that, and was just thinking about that whole idea earlier today.
I'd say that FarSight certainly has a passion for pinball, with their meticulous research in trying to recreate the machines as accurately as possible. However, it seems like their technical skills are not up to snuff for the task that they're trying to handle.
Previously, they had done great work on the Pinball Hall of Fame games, which were rock solid and very playable without any major technical shortcomings. However, something changed between then and now. Today, they're struggling to get the game polished, presentable, and playable on a majority of the supported platforms. Perhaps there was a change in staff, or trying to tackle so many platforms simultaneously proved to be too big a task to handle.
It would have been awesome if the proposed Zen Studios/FarSight collaboration would have come to fruition. Zen Studios has a good handle on their engine, across a wide assortment of platforms. If you could combine Zen's excellent engine (tweaked for "realistic" physics) with FarSight's research and attention to detail, then you just might have the ultimate pinball game.
Since it's unlikely that FarSight would be able to hand off the technical aspects to another development group anytime soon, what I would recommend is that they impose a moratorium on releasing any new DLC for any platform, until they can fix all known bugs and bring all versions of the game up to the standard of the current iOS and Android releases. If they're busy churning out DLC packs for iOS/Android, then that's less manpower and resources they've got on PlayStation/Xbox. They need to get all hands on deck to fix up PlayStation/Xbox and get the PC version out the door. Once they've accomplished that, then they can resume working on DLC for everyone to enjoy.
Minsc
Gold Member
What if the Android/iOS version are the most profitable? Neglecting releasing new tables is a horrible idea anyway, it defeats the whole point of the program. My 360 version runs fine, and my iOS also runs fine, much better framerate than Zen's iOS release too.
DLC is the only thing that brings in money, if they stop releasing DLC, they have to start firing people.
Since FarSight emulates actual ROMs from pinball machines, it wouldn't work with Zen Studio's engine.