The Player 1 Podcast Topic

No BOOM BLOX Smash Party
No Zack & Wiki
No A Boy and His Blob
No Klonoa
No Rabbids Go Home
No Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
No Sonic Colours
No Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
No ANNO - Create a New World
No Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

How weren't any of these games in the top 5's?

There are not a ton of great Wii exclusives outside of the obvious stuff but enough to make it a good companion console. Also the 4 Taiko no Tatsujin games for it were awesome and the special controller only cost me $30.
 
To be fair, neither Greg or Phil seemed prepared to come up with a list. It's difficult to remember everything after an entire generation, especially on the spot.
 
Sorry, but you did say "great." I just listened to it. You were also talking about your favorite games, but you did say that you had trouble coming up with a list of great games.



Not literally, but that's the implication of saying that the system was a victim of its audience. Like there's only games for grandma here. The presence of shovelware has nothing to do with coming up with a list of great games, but, for you, it clearly did. I don't understand that. If you're talking about games you like or great games, then why even bring up shovelware? Shouldn't that just be part of the general discussion of the system? Why did it come up in favorite games?



This is correct, but irrelevant to the point about great games existing or not existing on the platform. Maybe I could see it as some sort of overshadowing argument, but I'm not going to assume ignorance from someone who worked in the press, works in the industry, and has hosted a video game podcast for years. I have too much respect for you and your cohorts to make that assumption.



See above.



I used your words and the natural implication of what you said. But sure.



I feel like that's the same arc that a lot of press types took, which is unfortunate. When did you get back into it? Most of the good stuff came out after the early years. And that explains you, but what about Phil and CJ?



I apologize. I still maintain that there was a huge focus in the segment on shovelware to the detriment of all other discussion and it was a bad segment. I was, however, a bit rash, and I shouldn't have called you a clown. Rereading my post, it sounds way more aggressive than I meant it to be. That's my fault.

I think where we differ is the "natural implication" of what I said. I tried to make sure that I didn't say the system doesn't have great games. You obviously got a different impression. So I'm here now trying again to tell you that I was not saying the system didn't have any great games.

Though I did use the word "great" on the show, you're right. My fault for answering the original post at 2am. I'm too old to stay up that late :)
 
No BOOM BLOX Smash Party
No Zack & Wiki
No A Boy and His Blob
No Klonoa
No Rabbids Go Home
No Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
No Sonic Colours
No Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
No ANNO - Create a New World
No Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

How weren't any of these games in the top 5's?
Because they aren't among my favorites. I mean, is this really going to become "why don't you like what I like?" I played most of those games, but they'd never crack my top five, nor would they supplant a dozen or more other games I loved:

Fragile Moon
Lost in Shadow
Deadly Creatures
Little King's Story
The Last Story
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Kororinpa
Muramasa
Dead Space Extraction
De Blob
Red Steel 2

Damn. I loved the Wii.
 
No BOOM BLOX Smash Party
No Zack & Wiki
No A Boy and His Blob
No Klonoa
No Rabbids Go Home
No Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
No Sonic Colours
No Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
No ANNO - Create a New World
No Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

How weren't any of these games in the top 5's?

There are not a ton of great Wii exclusives outside of the obvious stuff but enough to make it a good companion console. Also the 4 Taiko no Tatsujin games for it were awesome and the special controller only cost me $30.


I haven't played at least 6 of those, and of the ones I did play I liked some and didn't like others. But none of them jumped out at me in the 5 minutes I took to put together my top 5 ;)
 
There are a lot of games on the Wii that I played a little bit of, but not enough to really say "hey that's in my top 5." Rhythm Heaven Fever, WarioWare, DKC Returns, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Zack & Wiki, Boomblox - there are a lot of them. But even looking at what I'd consider my favorite games of the last generation...not a lot of Wii pops to mind. I like the Wii U a lot more so far. :O
 
The 360 retro was a great episode. Looking forward to hear the Wii. I hope they talked about this lost gem:

elebits-20061211051142000-000.jpg


Elebits was a such simple middle score launch game, but one of best uses of Wiimote of entire wii catalog.
 
Only bummed out by no mention of Monster Hunter Tri. That's easily in my top 5 Wii games, probably top 10 for the gen

I also feel like part of why 3rd party releases were so barren was because the 'core' developers had already invested a ton into development on the 360/PS3/PC (also, to that point the combined market of 360/PS3/PC probably eclipsed the Wii regardless of its install base). The Wii caught most people by surprise and I don't think that anyone ever really believed that it was a 'real' hit. The core gamers that might have bought titles for the system moved over to the 360/PS3 once it became clear that's where the hits were going.

Also, the lack of any online infrastructure really set them up to fail.
 
Dumbest thing said on the podcast this year? Comparing the Everyone Votes Channel to TVii. Absurd I say! TVii is a broken piece of crap that should be purged from every Wii U in existence and be replaced with a new Everyone Votes Channel
 
Because they aren't among my favorites. I mean, is this really going to become "why don't you like what I like?" I played most of those games, but they'd never crack my top five, nor would they supplant a dozen or more other games I loved:

Fragile Moon
Lost in Shadow
Deadly Creatures
Little King's Story
The Last Story
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Kororinpa
Muramasa
Dead Space Extraction
De Blob
Red Steel 2

Damn. I loved the Wii.
Mik, I love you, I really do. Such an underated game, flawed as hell, but man that story was soo moving. Some of the memories near bought me to tears. If only they could have made the combat less clunky and the last part of the game not as combat heavy (freaken sewers sucked) the game would have easily been in my top 5 Wii games.

I do feel bad for the Wii, its a great system, with lots of amazing titles on it, heck I don't think I would have a problem doing a top 50 to be honest taking into account WiiWare and retail games. But for the most part people treat it like a kids system and alot of the great quality titles get ignored. I wonder if the Wii had of had games like Xenoblade and Punch Out in the first year (with all the other titles that came out for it year 1) plus a decent online set up if things would have been different to it.

Heck even from a 3rd Party non Nintendo Published stand point, the Wii had a pretty great line up with stuff like the following (but not limited to)

Fragile Dreams
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Okami
Geomtry Wars: Galaxies
Dokapon Kingdom
Boom Blox
Monster Hunter Tri
No More Heroes
World of Goo
Bit Trip Everything
SSX Blur
Mega Man 9
Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth (plus Contra and Gradius Rebirth)
Trauma Team (and the rest)
The Godfather Blackhand

And thats just the stuff I played. Add to that all the Nintendo games and you have an amazing line up. I always got annoyed at people saying the system had no decent games, it had an amazing line up and I could have been easily happy with just the Wii and nothing else. I think the main issue with the Wii was that it went too long, had everything that came out for it been condensed into 4 years instead the 6 it was, the system would have been looked back on much more fondly.
 
Totally forgot another top ten game for me: Disney's Guilty Party. Such a great family/party game. My kids and I had a riot with that game. Really smart and funny and well-crafted. Unfortunately, like Order Up and lots of other Wii games, it would be easy to look at the cover, read the back of the box, and assume it was shovelware. It most certainly was not.
 
Episode 371: Papercraft and Puffy Shirts

This week! Tearaway, Assassin’s Creed IV, Ratchet & Clank Into the Nexus, The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds, SEGA 3D Classics Galaxy Force II, NBA2K14, Battlefield 4, Forza 5 and more. Plus! Discussion of dropping the GamePad, the most difficult games we’ve never beaten, kickstarters and Internet harassment, all on this action-packed episode of the Player One Podcast. BTW our voicemail line has returned. Why not leave us a message? (234) 752-9123

Blog: http://www.playeronepodcast.com/371
Audio: http://traffic.libsyn.com/playerone/12_16_13-Episode371.mp3
 
I was just testing the other guys.


(Actually, I knew Xenoblade was--not sure why I didn't say that. But I legitimately did not know Endless Ocean was Nintendo published)
 
Your chat Chris Kohler and his Wii U suggestion embodied exactly what makes you guys come off at superior at times (to me).

"Do you expect Nintendo to go back and patch every game?!?"

Isn't this what they did with the Wii+ controller?

"Do you really think making the system a $100 cheaper would help it be more successful?"

Aren't they close to the point where they need to take some desperate measures to get the system on track?

"What good would it do allowing any game to be played on a more traditional style controller?"

How about price, as you mentioned, battery life, controller ease of use (it's overly big and I found it very unwieldy), etc?

"It's what makes the system stand out!"

How much is the tablet aspect of the console a part of any game on the system at this point? It seems to me it's about as necessary as the Kinect with the Xbox One, by which I mean largely unnecessary so taking it out and reducing the price of the system (also in the case of the Xbox One) might (and I emphasize might as I'm no expert) get the system on track.

Not to mention the fact that you sort of ridiculed Kohler for giving his opinion on a hypothetical but then couldn't help but talk about what Nintendo have done wrong and how they might improve it yourselves which struck me as doing the same thing.
 
Are you suggesting that Nintendo patched every old Wii game to take advantage of the Wii MotionPlus? Because, no, they totally did not do that. Not even a little bit.

List of games that support Wii MotionPlus.

I'm suggesting that they didn't care about making certain games unplayable with a new improved peripheral so it wouldn't surprise me if they did the same by requiring games to be playable without a tablet from a certain point.
 
I'm suggesting that they didn't care about making certain games unplayable with a new improved peripheral so it wouldn't surprise me if they did the same by requiring games to be playable without a tablet from a certain point.

Except the Motion Plus was backwards compatible with all the previous games. What you're suggesting might (unless they already planned for it) make existing games inoperable on the new, GamePad-less version. Maybe Nintendo's got a measure in place for "no gamepad" in the OS and most games. Nintendo's own releases outside of NintendoLand and LEGO City Undercover already support other controllers. But if they don't, the "remove the GamePad" suggestion is really asking them to redo well, almost everything about the system. And that's not practical considering the length of time it would take to do - it'd be way too late, and would come up short.

To me, removing the GamePad and a hypothetical dropping of the price by $100 is a short-term fix. It would sell some units, like any price drop does in its first month. But that spike soon goes away, and what you're left with is a system that's now pretty much an Xbox 360 or PS3 but with lackluster 3rd party support and (still) only Nintendo's own games to save it. It doesn't play DVDs, doesn't play Blu-rays, doesn't do online play, doesn't have an account system, only plays Mario games - pick your criticism. They will have removed the thing that IMO was the key differentiator of the platform. It'd certainly kill off Miiverse. You still had what you had before - the only bankable thing you've got left is Nintendo's own software. And that's not doing much of anything for them right now.

Wii U has a complex combination of problems simultaneously. The name, a controller no one seems to want or know what to do with, a machine that's technically inferior, lackluster 3rd party support, Nintendo's reliance on franchises they've effectively beaten into the ground (despite the new entries being great games), and abandonment of the Wii's inviting, casual-friendly remote design. They've royally painted themselves into an inescapable corner with this one. IMO you can't fix one problem without the others becoming even more evident. If you remove the GamePad third parties aren't going to pile on with new games. The system's still going to be technologically challenged against XBO/PS4, you're still not casual-friendly. It's still an also-ran.

No one understood the GamePad. Calling it a "tablet controller" is already misunderstanding what the thing is. Nintendo probably should've called the Wii U the HD-DS or DS Home as the GamePad is basically a lower-screen for your TV (that also does off-TV play). It's not a tablet and doesn't have any processing power whatsoever in it - it can't be used separately from the console. That is not immediately gettable. IMO NintendoLand had the best examples of how a 'second screen' could be extremely fun but those were mostly multiplayer-focused; there really wasn't/isn't a 'justification' for it in solo games except acting as the lower screen, DS-style. Pikmin 3 comes the closest but despite everyone screaming that Nintendo should make a new Pikmin game it didn't sell consoles or sway anyone's opinion. It still got the "doesn't justify the gamepad's existence" reviews. :|

To me there is no fixing Nintendo's situation with Wii U. The changes they could make, IMO, wouldn't have meaningful impact or might even be more detrimental. You can't go two Christmases with sales this abysmal and make a comeback - retailers have limited shelf space, PS4/XBO are stealing the attention, there's no saving it. Best to support what market you've got with software, keep the 3DS success going. Suggesting there is a way to "fix" Wii U is futile. With software they maybe can eke some blood from this stone but it's already sunk, sadly.
 
Phil, why does your son hate shinobi 3?

I thought you were a better father ;)

Edit: CJ, the ACIV companion app does get you money from the main game. I use it for that. Made like 50k+ rupies out of that so far.
 
Edit: CJ, the ACIV companion app does get you money from the main game. I use it for that. Made like 50k+ rupies out of that so far.

Yes, I know. I think when I made that comment we were talking about the new AC Pirates game on iOS, which does not (so I'm not interested in buying that). And sadly because of the 100-friend bug I can't USE the ACIV companion app 'cuz it won't log me into UPlay.
 
Yes, I know. I think when I made that comment we were talking about the new AC Pirates game on iOS, which does not (so I'm not interested in buying that). And sadly because of the 100-friend bug I can't USE the ACIV companion app 'cuz it won't log me into UPlay.

I didn't know that there was more than one ACIV app. Interesting.

Edit: Phil hasn't finished MM9?

So many feelings right now...
 
Your chat Chris Kohler and his Wii U suggestion embodied exactly what makes you guys come off at superior at times (to me).
Ehhh, I backed you up on this statement previously, but I'm really not feeling it in that segment. I think conversations like that one are going to happen pretty much every week--I suppose disagreeing could be construed as thinking you're superior, since fundamentally disagreeing means you think your own opinion is better. But, I dunno, that just kind of feels like regular discussion to me.
 
Your chat Chris Kohler and his Wii U suggestion embodied exactly what makes you guys come off at superior at times (to me).
Well they were the #4 rated gaming podcast last year. Wired's Game|Life was a distant #29. Objectively they are superior, that's just good hard math.
 
Except the Motion Plus was backwards compatible with all the previous games. What you're suggesting might (unless they already planned for it) make existing games inoperable on the new, GamePad-less version. Maybe Nintendo's got a measure in place for "no gamepad" in the OS and most games. Nintendo's own releases outside of NintendoLand and LEGO City Undercover already support other controllers. But if they don't, the "remove the GamePad" suggestion is really asking them to redo well, almost everything about the system. And that's not practical considering the length of time it would take to do - it'd be way too late, and would come up short.

To me, removing the GamePad and a hypothetical dropping of the price by $100 is a short-term fix. It would sell some units, like any price drop does in its first month. But that spike soon goes away, and what you're left with is a system that's now pretty much an Xbox 360 or PS3 but with lackluster 3rd party support and (still) only Nintendo's own games to save it. It doesn't play DVDs, doesn't play Blu-rays, doesn't do online play, doesn't have an account system, only plays Mario games - pick your criticism. They will have removed the thing that IMO was the key differentiator of the platform. It'd certainly kill off Miiverse. You still had what you had before - the only bankable thing you've got left is Nintendo's own software. And that's not doing much of anything for them right now.

Wii U has a complex combination of problems simultaneously. The name, a controller no one seems to want or know what to do with, a machine that's technically inferior, lackluster 3rd party support, Nintendo's reliance on franchises they've effectively beaten into the ground (despite the new entries being great games), and abandonment of the Wii's inviting, casual-friendly remote design. They've royally painted themselves into an inescapable corner with this one. IMO you can't fix one problem without the others becoming even more evident. If you remove the GamePad third parties aren't going to pile on with new games. The system's still going to be technologically challenged against XBO/PS4, you're still not casual-friendly. It's still an also-ran.

No one understood the GamePad. Calling it a "tablet controller" is already misunderstanding what the thing is. Nintendo probably should've called the Wii U the HD-DS or DS Home as the GamePad is basically a lower-screen for your TV (that also does off-TV play). It's not a tablet and doesn't have any processing power whatsoever in it - it can't be used separately from the console. That is not immediately gettable. IMO NintendoLand had the best examples of how a 'second screen' could be extremely fun but those were mostly multiplayer-focused; there really wasn't/isn't a 'justification' for it in solo games except acting as the lower screen, DS-style. Pikmin 3 comes the closest but despite everyone screaming that Nintendo should make a new Pikmin game it didn't sell consoles or sway anyone's opinion. It still got the "doesn't justify the gamepad's existence" reviews. :|

To me there is no fixing Nintendo's situation with Wii U. The changes they could make, IMO, wouldn't have meaningful impact or might even be more detrimental. You can't go two Christmases with sales this abysmal and make a comeback - retailers have limited shelf space, PS4/XBO are stealing the attention, there's no saving it. Best to support what market you've got with software, keep the 3DS success going. Suggesting there is a way to "fix" Wii U is futile. With software they maybe can eke some blood from this stone but it's already sunk, sadly.

All this may be very true and accurate.

I did however clearly state that I thought it would be a viable and at the same time desperate move, the only type of move they may have left to them (which you seem to agree with in terms of the position they are in at the moment).

It may not get them on track ultimately but it seems to me viable to me in a "desperate times call for desperate measures" type situation. They'd have a more attractive price and a controller with better specs (recharge time, battery life, size, etc) which might (heavy stress on might) be enough to get sales going.

As you pointed out though, it would more than likely not be enough. Still, it seems to me that doing nothing or downright killing the system are two even worse paths to take.

Ehhh, I backed you up on this statement previously, but I'm really not feeling it in that segment. I think conversations like that one are going to happen pretty much every week--I suppose disagreeing could be construed as thinking you're superior, since fundamentally disagreeing means you think your own opinion is better. But, I dunno, that just kind of feels like regular discussion to me.

Fair enough. I found the tone of the segment to come off as superior.

Could just have been me, of course.
 
I did however clearly state that I thought it would be a viable and at the same time desperate move, the only type of move they may have left to them (which you seem to agree with in terms of the position they are in at the moment).

It may not get them on track ultimately but it seems to me viable to me in a "desperate times call for desperate measures" type situation. They'd have a more attractive price and a controller with better specs (recharge time, battery life, size, etc) which might (heavy stress on might) be enough to get sales going.

I agree it's dire times for the Wii U. It'll be very interesting to see what they end up doing in the future. I want to believe they'll continue to try and connect the dots between 3DS and Wii U even more with Miiverse and perhaps in other ways too. They sort of started that with the Animal Crossing Plaza as an interesting experiment. I think 2014 will see more of that. Smash Brothers or even Mario Kart are great candidates for that. Do they begin tying the portable in in other ways too?

I hope we'll begin to see a more experimental Nintendo with smaller releases on the eShop - one-off experiments like a standalone Mario Chase game with more levels or something akin to that. Maybe we'll see the Virtual Console service change to include more platforms (they did say the Wii U would do GBA games quite a while back and nothing's come of it yet). While it's pretty clear that 3rd place is all it has to look forward to, doesn't mean we can't still get some good software out of it. :D
 
Phil, why does your son hate shinobi 3?

I thought you were a better father ;)
I try, but the kid's always, like, "E-SWAT! I wanna play E-SWAT!" And I'm, like, "I dig E-SWAT too, kid, but you gotta branch out. Give some ninjas a try." I dunno. Maybe I'm in over my head with this parenting thing.

I hope we'll begin to see a more experimental Nintendo with smaller releases on the eShop - one-off experiments like a standalone Mario Chase game with more levels or something akin to that. Maybe we'll see the Virtual Console service change to include more platforms (they did say the Wii U would do GBA games quite a while back and nothing's come of it yet). While it's pretty clear that 3rd place is all it has to look forward to, doesn't mean we can't still get some good software out of it. :D
Man, a Captain Toad game on eShop with a steady supply of DLC stages. I would buy the poop outta that.
 
Man, a Captain Toad game on eShop with a steady supply of DLC stages. I would buy the poop outta that.

As long as they give an option to disable any gyro cameras. Christ almighty that was annoying.

...I'm going to feel really stupid if someone tells me there was an option to disable that now.
 
Personally, I am going to wait until after the GOTY podcast because I only vote for podcasts which reaffirm my own opinions




That's right, Aladdin SNES or you lose to Weekend Confirmed
 
Yeah, they already rolled that feature back and I'm blocked again, lol.

Basically, I see his ramblings appear in my feed whenever someone retweets him and I... well I just can't resist.
 
Yeah, they already rolled that feature back and I'm blocked again, lol.

Basically, I see his ramblings appear in my feed whenever someone retweets him and I... well I just can't resist.

Ohhh, damn. They backpedaled faster than I thought lol
 
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