Dusk could either use the Xbox to start a private chat with a player (which is the thing I was running with), or the alternate move is that he could, in one night, make two players Masons and have them go into a private chat together. He wouldn't be able to communicate with them.
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The Price Is Right MAFIA edition |OT| Come on down!!!
- Thread starter Sophia
- Start date
OceanicAir
Member
The only thing that bothers me about creating a Mason chat is that I doubt that they know each others alignment which greatly diminishes its use and could be potentially harmful (honestly, how is this different from a gossip chat?). Of course if they're both town then we can torpedo that whole alliance.
On another note, when Dusk was stating his whole Xbox use I was slightly wary of his explanation since as far as my bidding went, anybody can go back to bid as long as they didn't win an item. So I'm wary of people (namely CM and Corn) that didn't clarify that.
To add to this:
Dusk did mention that the new mason or masons had no way to know they were targeted by him, but by day 2, when he was still alive, they would have known Dusk was saying the truth since they should have had an active chat.
Right, which makes me think "let's reveal them and see who sweats"
What do you mean by this?
Also, can you clarify something for me: Could you use your item the same night you won it?
This was what I was trying to get at with my questioning of his claim. Since you've already said you won the dell, I feel comfortable telling everyone that I was in the bidding for it as well.
This is why I thought someone was informing Dusk about the bidding and just didn't explain it well enough.
Magnum leaving the game due to meeting his victory condition doesn't help us.
Splinter's track record
1) Gets a town player that is hard to read (which is bad for mafia) lynched.
2) Gets a town player with an item lynched.
3) Defends a proven liar and claimed neutral.
4) Attacks WAMD, exactly what the deceased Dusk Soldier warned us about. See also #772.
Splinter's track record
1) Gets a town player that is hard to read (which is bad for mafia) lynched.
2) Gets a town player with an item lynched.
3) Defends a proven liar and claimed neutral.
4) Attacks WAMD, exactly what the deceased Dusk Soldier warned us about. See also #772.
CornBurrito
Member
There really isn't a reason to trust a neutral who has changed their story once. Especially since his second "ohh yeah that's it!" came from a guess Dusk made.
I may also be wrong here, but I think Magnum was the one who came up with the "maybe everyone is vanilla" hypothesis... which seems a bit of an odd guess if he really is a neutral item thief.
MagnumBoy20xx
Neo Member
Ok, I'm back.
*Splinter's case against WAMD/SalvaPot makes sense to me. If we can't find a better, more likely scum Lynch then we should go for this one.
Also, did anyone even read my post!?!?
Obviously some people did, but a lot of this page is just rehashing what I already said. I know that I was wrong with my guess on who dusk's targets were,(assuming oceanic is telling the truth of course) but for the most part I did some pretty good work.
Also, el topo: how is a neutral, who goes out of his way to make a mega post to provide helpful information to town, not good to have around? That fact that you keep pushing to Lynch me will only make you seem more scummy than town.
*Splinter's case against WAMD/SalvaPot makes sense to me. If we can't find a better, more likely scum Lynch then we should go for this one.
Also, did anyone even read my post!?!?
Obviously some people did, but a lot of this page is just rehashing what I already said. I know that I was wrong with my guess on who dusk's targets were,(assuming oceanic is telling the truth of course) but for the most part I did some pretty good work.
Also, el topo: how is a neutral, who goes out of his way to make a mega post to provide helpful information to town, not good to have around? That fact that you keep pushing to Lynch me will only make you seem more scummy than town.
Informative posts are not enough Magnum. Neutrals are a potential danger and that is all there is to it. Because your win condition is different from town's one, there never will be a guarantee you will behave to town's interest. And let's not count out the possibility that you are more dangerous than you say.
StarSketch
Banned
.....
-face palm-
Someone claimed they got the computer, but idk if magnum potentially getting that is a good idea.
Sure, but everyone was so sure that Dusk was scum, so might as well have magnum prove his stealing role. As you said I don't know if its a good idea to have him get the computer, but he is going to try and steal it for sure this night.
CornBurrito
Member
This day is too quiet.
Does anyone have any criticism of my Splinter related thoughts? I've been saying for the past 2 days that he's obvious scum, but nobody has backed me up or really shot me down.
Does anyone have any criticism of my Splinter related thoughts? I've been saying for the past 2 days that he's obvious scum, but nobody has backed me up or really shot me down.
Splinter has pretty much ignored all answer to him so far.
You have some great points against Dragonz/Salva even though I sort of agree with Salva's rebuttal.
But since you believe that Dragonz's slip was revealing she had more info than she originally lead on does that mean you believe CM or CornBro is her Scum partner?
Hmmm.
Depends, how much you believe this person to be Scum? Because at best you find a Scum Mason ( and potentially out the other Mason as well ) but at worst you out a Townie ( or two ) and paint a massive target on their backs.
The Kalor Khronicles ( feat. Cristina Mackenzie ) Vol. 1 of 2
Day 1:
One of Kalor's first posts in the thread is here:
Second page, only a handful of posts in and it's early game item/role speculation. Nothing incredibly crazy here since it was early Day 1.
The first post that really bothered me. I believe I've had this issue before but I typically read Kalor's actions as being very safe. This one in particular for me, mainly because between this post and the one I quoted above was only a small handful of other post made by Kalor and it was more role speculation.
However, this could be him just giving his honest thoughts on the situation without actively engaging in it. It's just a very passive comment on a crazy Day 1 situation.
Again, this is sort of what makes me think it's just him giving his thoughts on the situation, albeit rather passively.
Didn't vote on Blarg because he believed they would be Scum, only because he believed that he would be a distraction in the coming Days. Then claims that his vote probably won't count because he believed Kark's Override claim. Felt like a vote just to have a vote down.
Right before the Day ended he made this comment. It would be a really odd thing for him to say if he was Scum.
Day 2:
I question Kalor and ask him why he voted for Blarg despite never really stating he thought of Blarg as Scum. His response:
I said it earlier but I really do think I have a problem with reading Kalor as being 'safe' because I feel the same thing here as I did earlier when he describes his feelings in detail. The feeling is consistent however, so there is that.
Calls out Nin eventually for being quiet and wants to bring attention to it before the topic gets smothered by discussion of Dusk and Dragonz.
Could be a active attention to call out quiet players or a Scum player trying to appear helpful by calling out 'low hanging fruit'. Eventually asks Nin one question later one and that was really it.
I think it's the votes that bug me the most about Kalor so far. Day 1 felt like a 'here's a vote i guess?' and this one feels exactly the same. Another 'I don't know who to go for/who to vote on' only it's on Dragonz, the person Kalor wasn't even sure was Scum during Day 1. So why go back?
Ends the Day by responding to my comment about how quiet it is, saying it in reference to Day 1's end.
Conclusion: A light Scum read. I feel like many of Kalor's explanations for his votes and feelings are 'safe' and he sort of stays out of the limelight and briefly comments once a while but doesn't actively take a step in conversations. Not to mention his votes have yet to be for people he believes are Scum and still hasn't actively tried to really find Scum either, only really reacts to situations rather passively. The only thing that gives me pause is his calling out of Nin for being inactive and his reaction towards the Day ends and them being very quiet. It just seems like an odd thing for Scum to point out.
Either way
Unvote: Kalor
For now.
Expect Vol. 2 ( feat. Cristina Mackenzie ) soon
Day 1:
One of Kalor's first posts in the thread is here:
Second page, only a handful of posts in and it's early game item/role speculation. Nothing incredibly crazy here since it was early Day 1.
The first post that really bothered me. I believe I've had this issue before but I typically read Kalor's actions as being very safe. This one in particular for me, mainly because between this post and the one I quoted above was only a small handful of other post made by Kalor and it was more role speculation.
However, this could be him just giving his honest thoughts on the situation without actively engaging in it. It's just a very passive comment on a crazy Day 1 situation.
Again, this is sort of what makes me think it's just him giving his thoughts on the situation, albeit rather passively.
Didn't vote on Blarg because he believed they would be Scum, only because he believed that he would be a distraction in the coming Days. Then claims that his vote probably won't count because he believed Kark's Override claim. Felt like a vote just to have a vote down.
Right before the Day ended he made this comment. It would be a really odd thing for him to say if he was Scum.
Day 2:
I question Kalor and ask him why he voted for Blarg despite never really stating he thought of Blarg as Scum. His response:
I said it earlier but I really do think I have a problem with reading Kalor as being 'safe' because I feel the same thing here as I did earlier when he describes his feelings in detail. The feeling is consistent however, so there is that.
Calls out Nin eventually for being quiet and wants to bring attention to it before the topic gets smothered by discussion of Dusk and Dragonz.
Could be a active attention to call out quiet players or a Scum player trying to appear helpful by calling out 'low hanging fruit'. Eventually asks Nin one question later one and that was really it.
I think it's the votes that bug me the most about Kalor so far. Day 1 felt like a 'here's a vote i guess?' and this one feels exactly the same. Another 'I don't know who to go for/who to vote on' only it's on Dragonz, the person Kalor wasn't even sure was Scum during Day 1. So why go back?
Ends the Day by responding to my comment about how quiet it is, saying it in reference to Day 1's end.
Conclusion: A light Scum read. I feel like many of Kalor's explanations for his votes and feelings are 'safe' and he sort of stays out of the limelight and briefly comments once a while but doesn't actively take a step in conversations. Not to mention his votes have yet to be for people he believes are Scum and still hasn't actively tried to really find Scum either, only really reacts to situations rather passively. The only thing that gives me pause is his calling out of Nin for being inactive and his reaction towards the Day ends and them being very quiet. It just seems like an odd thing for Scum to point out.
Either way
Unvote: Kalor
For now.
Expect Vol. 2 ( feat. Cristina Mackenzie ) soon
The CM Compendium ( formerly feat. Kalor ) Vol. 2 of 2
Day 1:
One of CM's first posts in the game and the Topopo test isn't of much note but that sentence at the end is what I want to call attention to. Keep it in mind while reading the rest of these.
An interesting question although CM never gave their own thoughts on the matter. Just kind of odd.
First dislikes Blarg, then isn't sure what he is up to. Also tried to protect Blarg even though Blarg claims only the people in the opening flavor are contestants and everyone else is a liar?
Why try to protect someone who not only claims YOU are lying but seeing as CM claims contestant wouldn't they know the opening flavor wasn't fact seeing as they did play on N0? It instantly contradicts Blarg and his whole Day 1 Flavor fiasco, yet CM tried to 'protect' him by not coming forward.
Also note this is post #245. Blarg is called out by Sophia for falsely using the opening flavor as evidence on post #281 a page later.
Blarg gives them bad feelings and then they aren't sure what to do.
This one actually feels legitimate to me and actually feels kinda Townie. Dunno why.
Note the Scum feelings on Blarg again and yet...no vote. Could be due to timezones however as CM did say they were turning in for the Night a couple hours earlier.
Day 2:
Theorizes about Dusk after he claims the Xbox and assumes he is Town due to a Scum play not being a valid long-term strategy.
What gets me though is the highlighted comment. 'Had I known I would have put a vote on someone'. Not 'help vote out scum' or 'vote for who I think was scummy' but just to put a vote down, seemingly to get out of the Vote-less crowd from Day 1.
Turns around suddenly on their opinion of Dusk.
Feels like a genuine response to the whole Magnum situation and generally feels like a Town response.
Again with the lack of vote. 'Worried' isn't the right word I would use here but it's the closest to what I'm thinking CM is showing here. CM never actually explained why they did not vote on Day 1 either.
The vote, and reasoning behind the vote, of Day 2. I don't believe CM ever went into the specifics of what they believed Dusk was recycling but it was enough to get CM to vote. Although what's weird is that CM believed Dusk is 'probably' Town early on in the Day only to flip their stance much later on and not really explain it much besides this post.
Conclusion: Another light Scum read, slightly more than Kalor right now. While CM has done some more Scum hunting than Kalor has their response, or lack thereof, to not voting on Day 1 and the sudden switch on Dusk without fully explaining leave me feeling a little scummy about CM. Not to mention the 'defense' of Blarg on Day 1 just looks odd to me. Their are some quotes I feel are more Town than others, namely the reaction to Magnum, but it's not much.
Coming soon: Adventures of CM & Kalor: Day 3 Ed.
Day 1:
One of CM's first posts in the game and the Topopo test isn't of much note but that sentence at the end is what I want to call attention to. Keep it in mind while reading the rest of these.
An interesting question although CM never gave their own thoughts on the matter. Just kind of odd.
First dislikes Blarg, then isn't sure what he is up to. Also tried to protect Blarg even though Blarg claims only the people in the opening flavor are contestants and everyone else is a liar?
Why try to protect someone who not only claims YOU are lying but seeing as CM claims contestant wouldn't they know the opening flavor wasn't fact seeing as they did play on N0? It instantly contradicts Blarg and his whole Day 1 Flavor fiasco, yet CM tried to 'protect' him by not coming forward.
Also note this is post #245. Blarg is called out by Sophia for falsely using the opening flavor as evidence on post #281 a page later.
Blarg gives them bad feelings and then they aren't sure what to do.
This one actually feels legitimate to me and actually feels kinda Townie. Dunno why.
Note the Scum feelings on Blarg again and yet...no vote. Could be due to timezones however as CM did say they were turning in for the Night a couple hours earlier.
Day 2:
Theorizes about Dusk after he claims the Xbox and assumes he is Town due to a Scum play not being a valid long-term strategy.
What gets me though is the highlighted comment. 'Had I known I would have put a vote on someone'. Not 'help vote out scum' or 'vote for who I think was scummy' but just to put a vote down, seemingly to get out of the Vote-less crowd from Day 1.
Turns around suddenly on their opinion of Dusk.
Feels like a genuine response to the whole Magnum situation and generally feels like a Town response.
Again with the lack of vote. 'Worried' isn't the right word I would use here but it's the closest to what I'm thinking CM is showing here. CM never actually explained why they did not vote on Day 1 either.
The vote, and reasoning behind the vote, of Day 2. I don't believe CM ever went into the specifics of what they believed Dusk was recycling but it was enough to get CM to vote. Although what's weird is that CM believed Dusk is 'probably' Town early on in the Day only to flip their stance much later on and not really explain it much besides this post.
Conclusion: Another light Scum read, slightly more than Kalor right now. While CM has done some more Scum hunting than Kalor has their response, or lack thereof, to not voting on Day 1 and the sudden switch on Dusk without fully explaining leave me feeling a little scummy about CM. Not to mention the 'defense' of Blarg on Day 1 just looks odd to me. Their are some quotes I feel are more Town than others, namely the reaction to Magnum, but it's not much.
Coming soon: Adventures of CM & Kalor: Day 3 Ed.
OceanicAir
Member
I mean that it seems that it is completely possible for people to bid again if they fail to win an item and that it might be luck of the draw if they go two times in a row rather than a set order for everybody.
And yes, I could use it immediately after winning. That day gap between bidding and end of night seems to be for that use.
Wooooow, just relegated to "someone" now
Also, unless him stealing an item will turn him into an SK or something crazy (or you think he's scum). I really don't see the harm.
Unless they had an additional ability that I couldn't see, I don't see why they wouldn't speak up for Dusk, instead of letting him get lynched since most votes mainly hinged on the existence or discrepancies with the Xbox. They haven't inspired a lot of confidence in some posts.
And another thing I've been considering is to know what would make Dusk less trustworthy than their fellow mason. Also, I think that the whole mason's importance is vastly overstated without the 100% confirmation of town.
And now, closing remarks.
Kalor:
General discussion of Dusk and some speculation followed by a vote for Salva because he 'just wants to know their alignment' now. Interesting to note it's not really a vote for Scum, as Kalor didn't Scum-read Dragonz, but just to finally see an end to this whole thing.
More role speculation, not a whole lot of Scum Hunting.
CM:
Expresses regret over the Dusk lynch yesterday. I'm curious how CM went from 'i'm sure Dusk is lying about his info' to 'oops'. Shouldn't info like that be fairly cut and dry?
Scum Hunting! Yay!
Interesting to note here is they believe a Dragonz vote would finally end this whole 'slip up' discussion and simply states it is a possible option. Also a complete 180 on the Neutral subject from Day 2 which is kinda...odd.
Either way I do want to hear from both Kalor and CM. General comments, thoughts, responses, maybe even to clear up some accusations? Either way I think both responses will further dictate how I feel about both of them and may influence who I end up voting for today.
Kalor:
General discussion of Dusk and some speculation followed by a vote for Salva because he 'just wants to know their alignment' now. Interesting to note it's not really a vote for Scum, as Kalor didn't Scum-read Dragonz, but just to finally see an end to this whole thing.
More role speculation, not a whole lot of Scum Hunting.
CM:
Expresses regret over the Dusk lynch yesterday. I'm curious how CM went from 'i'm sure Dusk is lying about his info' to 'oops'. Shouldn't info like that be fairly cut and dry?
Scum Hunting! Yay!
Interesting to note here is they believe a Dragonz vote would finally end this whole 'slip up' discussion and simply states it is a possible option. Also a complete 180 on the Neutral subject from Day 2 which is kinda...odd.
Either way I do want to hear from both Kalor and CM. General comments, thoughts, responses, maybe even to clear up some accusations? Either way I think both responses will further dictate how I feel about both of them and may influence who I end up voting for today.
The Xbox description says the Pass ability doesn't inform the 2 new Masons of the original Xbox owner, right? Maybe they were still unsure of Dusk and his alignment despite him giving them the mason ability? Dusk did have a rough Day 1 and was scum read by quite a few people, although you said the Mason you checked didn't vote for Dusk which makes it even more confusing. Maybe they believed him but didn't want to become targets by roleclaiming???
Unless they come forward or you force them to by revealing your target it's going to be hard to really say for sure. We don't even know the whole situation since it looked like anybody could have been picked for the chat itself and while revealing would clear this all up it's still down to whether or not you think that person is Scum.
I do agree with you on that last sentence though. I think someone said it earlier but this is starting to sound more like a Gossip chat than an actual Mason chat.
Christina Mackenzie
Member
I though I caught a lie from him. See below.
This is a trick question, right?
Check your Item Bid PM, you should know that regardless whether you win or lose, you will be removed from the Contestant's Row. I was bidding on Night 0 but I didn't stay on nor have I been called back since.
Christina Mackenzie
Member
I'm a bit short on time at the moment so I'll just answer the first part of my biography.
It was meant as a light-hearted question towards El Topo more than anything. Notice I jokingly referred to him as a "doctor". I chose Blarg simply because he won the item and I didn't and it was what came to me at the time. Had it not been about Blarg I would have posted some lame joke about one of Freud's theories.
While waiting for El Topo to respond, Blarg decided to rescind his winning claim. Seeing it was Blarg, I thought he really did win (maybe a double bluff from him) and decided to hold my bid reveal until a later time.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=213562878#post213562878
Also Blarg only brings forward his "opening flavor" theory much later after I had made my bid reveal.
This is the breadcrumb. Just tossing it out there while I write a bigger post.
The masons are Sawneeks and I and the intention of this reveal is to clear the air about the masons and our actions.
On night one, I and Sawneeks were invited to a mason chat themed after Xbox Live. While we both caught the breadcrumb Dusk made on day one, only after Dusk made his reveal about the Xbox it became clear to us that he had bestowed the chat upon us. A thing of note is that we were never told how the item Dusk used worked, that is, we had no idea if Dusk had to use it on two others than himself or if he couldve used the Xbox on himself. This formed the premise of the 1st topic on our chat: should we reveal ourselves if Dusk was going to be lynched?
As it is apparent to all, our conclusion was no. We laid out a bunch of scenarios about the Kyan-Saw-Dusk trio and speculated about them. There was either two, one, or no scum among us. As I was not present in Sawneeks scum chat nor was she present in mine, the two scum scenario wouldve been Dusk+1. The purpose of this scenario wouldve been to influence the lone town member in the chat to some end or to make the scum chatter and scum Dusk more towny. In an alternative two scum scenario, a non-Dusk scum member won the Xbox and used it on a third scum member plus a townie and Dusk claimed the usage instead, again, in order to gain #townpoints for himself and to the member in the mason chat. In the one scum scenario, the scum wouldve likely been one of the chat members - why wouldve scum Dusk created a chat between two townies, a chat he and his team would have no influence over. In the all town scenario town Dusk happened to pick two town members to chat with each other. I do not know Sawneeks alignment and I have no reason to believe she knows mine. We were and still are unknowns to each other and all we have against each other are our reads.
The fact that Dusk gave us the chat was not enough to say anything about his alignment and thus we felt that revealing ourselves wouldnt save Dusk. The worst-case scenario was that town Dusk dies anyway and the two town masons paint a target on themselves and one of them gets lynched, ending the chat. And if we were to succeed in saving Dusk, was that a good thing? His alignment was uncertain and we considered to a varying degree it possible that he was scum. I considered it more possible than Sawneeks, what can be seen in our vote record. The possibility that the chat was a hostile scum plan was something that I omitted from my reasoning when I voted for Dusk, in order to keep myself and Sawneeks hidden.
Dusks death meant that the two-scum scenario died as well. Alas, since you all do not have the access to the mason chat, I guess you cannot be sure that Dusk did not happen to pick two scum members. I imagine Sawneeks will echo me when I say this is not the case. I am just making a guess here, but the chance for this to happen should mathematically be somewhat slim or at least clearly slimmer than no scum or 1+1. If someone uses this as a argument against us, I suggest others look at the arguer when a mason flips town.
Then, why the change about the reveal? Oceanic mainly, confusion secondarily. Since it seems that Oceanic found Sawneeks with his cop shot, he blew a hole in our cover. Sidenote, I wanted to ask Oceanic to reveal my mason partner in order to verify him but in few minutes realized that since Oceanic kinda comes and goes, I could be waiting for an opportunity til the end of time. Good idea that wasnt easy to execute as finding the breadcrumb is easy when you know one of the masons. Oceanics comment about the mason not voting for Dusk narrowed the amount of posts one would have to go through: anybody could just ctrl+f Dusks posts and look for breadcrumbs that contained two persons of whom one did not vote for Dusk. If town could do this, scum could do this too. If both the masons were town and even if Oceanic did not reveal Sawneeks and even if town did not pick up on the breadcrumb, how could we be sure that scum could not see through everything? Staying hidden now could be beneficial to scum.
As for Sawneeks, for Id say she is town. I base this on her contributions in the actual thread here and my read is supported with her posts in the mason chat. In our little chat she has shown reasonable opinions about various things, some of which are mentioned in this post, has explained herself when questioned and expressed healthy amounts of doubt towards myself and my actions. My sole concern is related to this reveal. She was the one to bring up the reveal again and I agreed to it. She said she was going to reveal herself and let me reveal myself after my zzz but chose against it. I am unsure if this is town Sawneeks testing me, scum Sawneeks trying to keep herself hidden, or just town Sawneeks genuinely doubting herself. I am sure shell answer this to all of us.
You have questions, I and/or Sawneeks have answers.
On night one, I and Sawneeks were invited to a mason chat themed after Xbox Live. While we both caught the breadcrumb Dusk made on day one, only after Dusk made his reveal about the Xbox it became clear to us that he had bestowed the chat upon us. A thing of note is that we were never told how the item Dusk used worked, that is, we had no idea if Dusk had to use it on two others than himself or if he couldve used the Xbox on himself. This formed the premise of the 1st topic on our chat: should we reveal ourselves if Dusk was going to be lynched?
As it is apparent to all, our conclusion was no. We laid out a bunch of scenarios about the Kyan-Saw-Dusk trio and speculated about them. There was either two, one, or no scum among us. As I was not present in Sawneeks scum chat nor was she present in mine, the two scum scenario wouldve been Dusk+1. The purpose of this scenario wouldve been to influence the lone town member in the chat to some end or to make the scum chatter and scum Dusk more towny. In an alternative two scum scenario, a non-Dusk scum member won the Xbox and used it on a third scum member plus a townie and Dusk claimed the usage instead, again, in order to gain #townpoints for himself and to the member in the mason chat. In the one scum scenario, the scum wouldve likely been one of the chat members - why wouldve scum Dusk created a chat between two townies, a chat he and his team would have no influence over. In the all town scenario town Dusk happened to pick two town members to chat with each other. I do not know Sawneeks alignment and I have no reason to believe she knows mine. We were and still are unknowns to each other and all we have against each other are our reads.
The fact that Dusk gave us the chat was not enough to say anything about his alignment and thus we felt that revealing ourselves wouldnt save Dusk. The worst-case scenario was that town Dusk dies anyway and the two town masons paint a target on themselves and one of them gets lynched, ending the chat. And if we were to succeed in saving Dusk, was that a good thing? His alignment was uncertain and we considered to a varying degree it possible that he was scum. I considered it more possible than Sawneeks, what can be seen in our vote record. The possibility that the chat was a hostile scum plan was something that I omitted from my reasoning when I voted for Dusk, in order to keep myself and Sawneeks hidden.
Dusks death meant that the two-scum scenario died as well. Alas, since you all do not have the access to the mason chat, I guess you cannot be sure that Dusk did not happen to pick two scum members. I imagine Sawneeks will echo me when I say this is not the case. I am just making a guess here, but the chance for this to happen should mathematically be somewhat slim or at least clearly slimmer than no scum or 1+1. If someone uses this as a argument against us, I suggest others look at the arguer when a mason flips town.
Then, why the change about the reveal? Oceanic mainly, confusion secondarily. Since it seems that Oceanic found Sawneeks with his cop shot, he blew a hole in our cover. Sidenote, I wanted to ask Oceanic to reveal my mason partner in order to verify him but in few minutes realized that since Oceanic kinda comes and goes, I could be waiting for an opportunity til the end of time. Good idea that wasnt easy to execute as finding the breadcrumb is easy when you know one of the masons. Oceanics comment about the mason not voting for Dusk narrowed the amount of posts one would have to go through: anybody could just ctrl+f Dusks posts and look for breadcrumbs that contained two persons of whom one did not vote for Dusk. If town could do this, scum could do this too. If both the masons were town and even if Oceanic did not reveal Sawneeks and even if town did not pick up on the breadcrumb, how could we be sure that scum could not see through everything? Staying hidden now could be beneficial to scum.
As for Sawneeks, for Id say she is town. I base this on her contributions in the actual thread here and my read is supported with her posts in the mason chat. In our little chat she has shown reasonable opinions about various things, some of which are mentioned in this post, has explained herself when questioned and expressed healthy amounts of doubt towards myself and my actions. My sole concern is related to this reveal. She was the one to bring up the reveal again and I agreed to it. She said she was going to reveal herself and let me reveal myself after my zzz but chose against it. I am unsure if this is town Sawneeks testing me, scum Sawneeks trying to keep herself hidden, or just town Sawneeks genuinely doubting herself. I am sure shell answer this to all of us.
You have questions, I and/or Sawneeks have answers.
melonrabbit
Member
Why do you think Dusk suggested you and Sawneeks, Kyan?
I'm gonna assume you mean why he picked me and Sawneeks for the chat, if you meant something else please let me know. I have only theories but if what Oceanic said is true, Dusk could've created the chat before day one but chose not to. This could imply that he was unsure what to do with the Xbox, or he was looking for something in his two picks for the mason chat. Perhaps he liked the posts Sawneeks and I made or perhaps he was telling the truth in his breadcrumb and thought our playstyles would mesh together and we could make some use of the chat.
Looking at the vote record, I find it troubling that all three who did not vote on day one took part on the Dusk lynch. Since we've had five different uncleared people without a vote at the end of a day, that is a one good group to look for scum in the future. Should be one or even two there.
Lynching Salva would shed light on the events of day one, it would tell us just what Splinter is seeing at the end of the tunnel, among other million or so things.
But Magnum. Unknown at best, dangerous neutral or scum at worst. Not the world's most informative lynch but not lynching neutrals has a record of backfiring badly. If he is neutral as he says there is no guarantee he will work with town, he should always prioritize his win condition. If this means screwing town up, he should do it. If he is scum claiming neutral...
VOTE: MagnumBoy20xx
I can't really argue with any of those points. I didn't actually realize that my reasoning for most of my votes didn't mention me thinking they were scum until you mentioned it. Part of that is because I don't feel strong enough about any players. It's only slight inclinations for each person. Out of my votes Dragonz/Salva is who I mostly strongly feel are scum but even that is just based off a slip and slightly off defense. When I voted for Nin I was aware it could be seen as safe but that's going to happen to anyone that votes for a low activity player so I'm not surprised you brought it up.
I went back to Dragonz at the end of D2 and now D3 because they were, for lack of a better term, a unresolved point from D1. Do I think they/Salva are scum? As I mentioned they are the person that I think is the most likely to be scum. Ideally we would have lynched them yesterday and already know their alignment but that wasn't the case.
A fair point, the breadcrumb I pointed out gains value only if Sawneeks and I are the masons. For Sawneeks and I it is fairly obvious that that is the breadcrumb Dusk left, to you all outside the chat it is but a random comment Dusk made. Paging OceanicAir.
OceanicAir
Member
Yeah, Sawneeks is a Mason
Just want to say that I was waiting to hear from Sawneeks (who I looked at N1) because I wanted to see how she would respond. Looking at her opening post this Day phase could be seen two ways, one protecting her chat (whose existence/use is vastly overstated without a known alignment) or two, acting like she cared why nobody spoke up for him. And how I read it with the fact that alignment isn't confirmed made me really unsure. I do understand the fact that Dusk might have been slightly sketchy but as I said before a lot people were skeptical of him because of the claim itself and wanted to see if he had the Xbox or something.
Also, we can only hope that you are both town, you could both be scum for all we know. You hiding it doesn't really help us, because if we were going to lynch one of you tomorrow, saying that you are masons doesn't clear either of you. And I'm not sure whether you are since you'll be under a cloud of suspicion anyways.
melonrabbit
Member
Yes. That's what I meant. Thanks for your response.
It was a weird comment even at the time he made, and I think it seems likely to be the breadcrumb. I just think it seems more likely that Dusk linked the Mason pair on N0 (as per Oceanic's claim that you can use your power on the night you win it).
Now, what I'm wondering is why Sawneeks was so dismissive about talking about Dusk today. From what you're saying, Kyan, you were at least speculating that Dusk was your matchmaker since his Day 1 breadcrumb; no doubt, by Day 2 you were well-aware of it, since he roleclaimed then.
So why is it that on the start of today, Day 3, Sawneeks is feigning SO much ignorance about what's going on with the Masons?
Two scum theory is not very realistic. Dusk would 1st have to pick two scum and the scum team would then have to choose to reveal both of the chat members. Afaik only Sawneeks and I should know that I was the second mason. Were we both scum, why wouldn't we keep myself hidden?
Why then did the chat open a whole phase later? I gained the access to the chat minutes after the night actions were locked for night one. Had Dusk used the item night 0, the following day phase (when the chat becomes active, as indicated by Dusk's flip) would've been day one. To reiterate, the chat began approximately one hour before the start of day two and it was not until Dusk's reveal on day two we became certain that Dusk had been our benefactor. Before Dusk's reveal, I had no way to know if it was Dusk or Sawneeks who had invited myself to the chat.
It's conceivable that Dusk, for whatever reason, decided to drop a breadcrumb before actually targeting you two. I don't care to argue that point too much, as it's not making a huge difference anyway.
What is a lot harder to believe is that you and Sawneeks were in contact with each other.
Again, this is what Sawneeks says on Day 3
So by her own admission, you guys watched Dusk roleclaim the power that gave you your Mason power, and neither one of you came forward. Kyan, you not only let the ball drop for Dusk, you voted for him:
See, I'm having trouble fitting the pieces together. Yes, you may claim that on Day 2, you and Sawneeks weren't sure why you were Masons, or who gave you your power.
...But then Dusk makes a roleclaim that should have spelled it out for you. Despite that, you vote for him, "as an information lynch". You knew damn well what was going on.
Again, Sawneeks on Day 3, after Dusk flipped:
So you vote for Dusk "as a great information lynch", but Sawneeks thinks we got no information out of the Dusk flip? And plays completely dumb on knowing anything about being a mason partner with you thanks to Dusk?
Bulllllllllllllllllshiiiiiiiiitttttt
What is a lot harder to believe is that you and Sawneeks were in contact with each other.
Again, this is what Sawneeks says on Day 3
So by her own admission, you guys watched Dusk roleclaim the power that gave you your Mason power, and neither one of you came forward. Kyan, you not only let the ball drop for Dusk, you voted for him:
See, I'm having trouble fitting the pieces together. Yes, you may claim that on Day 2, you and Sawneeks weren't sure why you were Masons, or who gave you your power.
...But then Dusk makes a roleclaim that should have spelled it out for you. Despite that, you vote for him, "as an information lynch". You knew damn well what was going on.
Again, Sawneeks on Day 3, after Dusk flipped:
So you vote for Dusk "as a great information lynch", but Sawneeks thinks we got no information out of the Dusk flip? And plays completely dumb on knowing anything about being a mason partner with you thanks to Dusk?
Bulllllllllllllllllshiiiiiiiiitttttt
Lol Kark, you're thinking too hard about this whole thing. I was bullshitting not knowing anything so as to not bring attention to the chat. I did gain info from Dusk's flip but it really only pertained to Kyan and our chat which I wasn't about to talk about so early. :x
Anyway I need to go get ready for work and class. I'll be back in like 8 hours to fully explain my side of this whole Xbox story.
Also, for what it's worth, I want to go out on a limb and say Kyan is also Town.
Anyway I need to go get ready for work and class. I'll be back in like 8 hours to fully explain my side of this whole Xbox story.
Also, for what it's worth, I want to go out on a limb and say Kyan is also Town.
Might've wanted to wait for Sawneeks to appear (fake edit speaking of the devil) to claim that we're not in contact but as you wish. If you claim we weren't in contact with each other, what are we then? I am curious about that. How did I know that Sawneeks is a mason? Are we both scum? Is Oceanic scum too?
What does winning the prize say anything about the person's alignment? Nothing, so far there has been nothing to tell that scum could not win the prizes so that is something we have to consider. If scum can win the prizes, scum can use the prizes. Again, to clarify our thoughts: from Dusk's "I won the Xbox" post onward we only knew that Dusk had won the Xbox and used it on us. How the item worked, what its restrictions were, why Dusk had chosen us, what was Dusk's alignment and what was our mason partner's alignment, all these things were unknown to us. We discussed about what our knowledge tells us about Dusk and concluded that we could not be sure about him.
Dusk was a great information lynch, him flipping town allowed us to eliminate a bunch of possible scenarios. He could have been scum. Flipping him allows us to come forward with a smaller list of possibilities.
Sawneeks is playing dumb because our stance initially was to hide ourselves. If you read my lil post above, I mention there that it was Oceanic's cop claim that made us reconsider our stance. To help you understand how we've thought about things, look at this:
D2. The chat begins and Dusk does the reveal. After discussion we conclude to stay quiet.
D3. Oceanic comes forward, sparks a discussion in the mason chat.
A conclusion is reached, reveal is coming and Sawneeks takes opening comments (because I was about to zzz).
I wake up, Sawneeks has changed her mind, wants to see if she can talk Oceanic out of revealing her. She is permits me to go forward with the reveal if I want to.
I reveal.
I won't be around tomorrow until close to the deadline, so I want to cast my vote now.
I think it would be best if we concentrated our votes early this time and let mafia not get away with influencing half-assed decisions, as we did the past two days. Furthermore, given that we have already lost two town members, I think a safe lynch is our most reasonable option. Lynching Magnum eliminates a neutral that is not trustworthy (he has lied), that is directly detrimental to our cause (he steals items) and wins either way (survives/steals items). He also admits that he tried to steal an item, which only helps us if mafia is hit. Lynching him eliminates doubt about his claim, guarantees that we do not lose a town member today (unless Magnum is pulling a dumb gambit), protects us from item loss and gives us another day for reads on the various suspicious players. It's not an optimal lynch, assuming he is neutral, but it is one that minimizes our losses.
VOTE: MagnumBoy20xx
I think it would be best if we concentrated our votes early this time and let mafia not get away with influencing half-assed decisions, as we did the past two days. Furthermore, given that we have already lost two town members, I think a safe lynch is our most reasonable option. Lynching Magnum eliminates a neutral that is not trustworthy (he has lied), that is directly detrimental to our cause (he steals items) and wins either way (survives/steals items). He also admits that he tried to steal an item, which only helps us if mafia is hit. Lynching him eliminates doubt about his claim, guarantees that we do not lose a town member today (unless Magnum is pulling a dumb gambit), protects us from item loss and gives us another day for reads on the various suspicious players. It's not an optimal lynch, assuming he is neutral, but it is one that minimizes our losses.
VOTE: MagnumBoy20xx
Again, I ask, what is the value of the chat if you don't know the other player's alignment? You neglected to contest Dusk's lynch to protect that? What made you more protective of one unknown over another?
VOTE: Sawneeks
Seriously, now.
CornBurrito
Member
El Topo, Magnum might be a neutral but he isnt a killing role. I think we have enough information to make an educated guess as to who scum might be.
My top 3 are still, as always, Splinter/Sawneeks/StarSketch.
Sawneeks keeping quiet about the mason chat is... suspect.
Why be wary of Dusk's alignment but not suspect her mason partner.
The only reason I'm inclined to not vote for Sawneeks is because we know Dusk is town and at the very least he trusted her.
My top 3 are still, as always, Splinter/Sawneeks/StarSketch.
Sawneeks keeping quiet about the mason chat is... suspect.
Why be wary of Dusk's alignment but not suspect her mason partner.
The only reason I'm inclined to not vote for Sawneeks is because we know Dusk is town and at the very least he trusted her.
The point I'm making that "I find it hard to believe you two were in contact" is that your individual actions haven't lined up at all with two players sharing information and coordinating.
Your motivations don't add up.
You voted for Dusk on Day 2, soon after Sawneeks prompts you to explain your vote for the previous day (Post #665). Despite seeing Dusk's claim line up with your bestowed Mason status. There is no reason to trust your Mason pair is Town, or to feel protective of that partnership. There is no reason for you and your Mason pair to deceive like this.
You and Sawneeks let Dusk walk into the ocean, even justifying to us "lynch Dusk for information", knowingly hiding that you could have vouched for him and eliminated the need to do that.
Deceiving Town to get a claimed PR lynched is a scum move, Kyan.
Now look, Kyan & Sawneeks.
It's possible both of you are scum. It's also possible one of you is scum.
Both of you giving yourself a pass and assuming "Town" is cute, but all it's doing is making you both look like scum. There is no reason both of you as Town would be doing this.
It's possible both of you are scum. It's also possible one of you is scum.
Both of you giving yourself a pass and assuming "Town" is cute, but all it's doing is making you both look like scum. There is no reason both of you as Town would be doing this.