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The Price Is Right MAFIA edition |OT| Come on down!!!
- Thread starter Sophia
- Start date
The tale of El Topo.
Day one: does a picture test and thinks melon is scum. Never explains why he thinks negatively of melon.
Day two: wants Magnum dead because he is a lying neutral.
Day three: thinks Dusk was a mason himself and throws shade onto the presumed single partner. But when masons reveal themselves, does not say a single word about them and instead really wants Magnum dead.
Day four: contemplates voting different candidates and settles on Sawneeks, of whom he had nothing to say the day before. Has a weird discussion about the BBQ with Kark, a discussion that seems extremely off-topic. Why was this a worthwhile topic to discuss, but not any other thing people wanted him to answer?
Day five: really wants to lynch Sawneeks. Star claims and Topo is unaffected. Responds to theories about Stars alignment with who do we lynch, without offering a candidate himself.
Topo is weird. He feels separated from the discussion and the reluctance to answer things is clear. He throws shade around in minor to moderate amounts but it looks bad when he never comments on why others find his style of play troubling. The only clear arguments he has made have been against Magnum, a neutral item stealer. A quick read through did not find me the reason why melon was so suspicious. His tunneling on Sawneeks seems off because it started a day late. On day three, he had assumptions about the masons. When the assumptions were challenged, he did not react at all. Today, when his assumptions are again challenged, he does not react at all and even throws shade at those discussing the challenge. There is no real scum hunting for three days, just a grand desire to get rid of Magnum and a vote never explained.
VOTE: El Topo
Topo, why was melon scummy? Why do you circle around the questions that are thrown at you? Why did you ignore the masons on day three? What are your thoughts about Stars reveal regarding Sawneeks? And finally, who do we lynch?
Day one: does a picture test and thinks melon is scum. Never explains why he thinks negatively of melon.
Day two: wants Magnum dead because he is a lying neutral.
Day three: thinks Dusk was a mason himself and throws shade onto the presumed single partner. But when masons reveal themselves, does not say a single word about them and instead really wants Magnum dead.
Day four: contemplates voting different candidates and settles on Sawneeks, of whom he had nothing to say the day before. Has a weird discussion about the BBQ with Kark, a discussion that seems extremely off-topic. Why was this a worthwhile topic to discuss, but not any other thing people wanted him to answer?
Day five: really wants to lynch Sawneeks. Star claims and Topo is unaffected. Responds to theories about Stars alignment with who do we lynch, without offering a candidate himself.
Topo is weird. He feels separated from the discussion and the reluctance to answer things is clear. He throws shade around in minor to moderate amounts but it looks bad when he never comments on why others find his style of play troubling. The only clear arguments he has made have been against Magnum, a neutral item stealer. A quick read through did not find me the reason why melon was so suspicious. His tunneling on Sawneeks seems off because it started a day late. On day three, he had assumptions about the masons. When the assumptions were challenged, he did not react at all. Today, when his assumptions are again challenged, he does not react at all and even throws shade at those discussing the challenge. There is no real scum hunting for three days, just a grand desire to get rid of Magnum and a vote never explained.
VOTE: El Topo
Topo, why was melon scummy? Why do you circle around the questions that are thrown at you? Why did you ignore the masons on day three? What are your thoughts about Stars reveal regarding Sawneeks? And finally, who do we lynch?
Oh snap, I even would get around gwtting rid of El Topo, just to push the scum hunting.
You played too safe El Topo, its time for you to get lynched.
OceanicAir
Member
What the hell are you talking about?
I asked is the cop x-shot or indefinite. How does saying it's x-shot or indefinite put her in more danger? If she says it's x-shot it could mean she has more shots or not and if she says it's indefinite it means she has
Please tell me what the point of keeping her role under wraps was, keeping her alive longer? Because she was somehow less of a threat to scum by being vague? Because if scum knows nothing about the role you are telling me they'd keep her alive just in case?
There are two different kinds of speculation, useless speculation like whether or not scum have power since it is impossible for us to know and useful speculation like whether or not a role the someone claims is true/make sense.
Hey Kark, Nin
now that Star cleared me, what are your thoughts on Kyan?
Out of that group I want to see Stan and Topo lynched.
OA falls into that as well but after running through the different scenarios I don't see a reason why Scum!OA would reveal the Masons instead of simply NKing them.
It is possible Scum!OA is on a team with one of the Masons but that still begs the question as to why reveal them? Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the Scum team to keep the Masons secret and try to gain a Town friend?
I also don't like how the conversation kept revolving around possibly lynching the two cops just to prove information instead of actually Scum hunting.
now that Star cleared me, what are your thoughts on Kyan?
Out of that group I want to see Stan and Topo lynched.
OA falls into that as well but after running through the different scenarios I don't see a reason why Scum!OA would reveal the Masons instead of simply NKing them.
It is possible Scum!OA is on a team with one of the Masons but that still begs the question as to why reveal them? Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the Scum team to keep the Masons secret and try to gain a Town friend?
I also don't like how the conversation kept revolving around possibly lynching the two cops just to prove information instead of actually Scum hunting.
That was my idea.... I put the idea out in the wild but I expected a lot more pushbaxk from everyone. It started as something that was out put in order to get other ideas. Well look how that turned out. You can blame me for that.
Shame on you, Nin.
Although this shame can be taken away if you answer my question. c:
CornBurrito
Member
Can you answer the reverse? Why would ScumOA not reveal the Masons? Or better yet, what did revealing the Masons cost scum?
StarSketch
Banned
OA was like "I found masons", and then I think Sawneeks was like "yeah that's me and Kyan"
OA revealed he 'found a Mason who did not vote for Dusk'.
Seeing as Kyan voted for Dusk and I didn't, it meant he found me.
Masons isn't the proper word since it should be singular but you get the point I'm trying to make.
It was Kyan, not me.
Assuming Both Masons are Town:
Why would Scum!OA reveal the Town Masons? Scum could have simply NKed them and got that problem taken care of quickly instead of letting it drag out over multiple Days and letting two Townies have a chat to themselves.
I fully believe the reason I got more Scum reads than Kyan is due to my hesitation to reveal and claim Mason. If I had not done this, would the outcome still have been the same? Would there have been such a large push for my lynch for multiple Days?
Scum wouldn't have known which scenario was going to happen. If this had been the case and Kyan and I were generally more accepted by Town from the get go then Scum!OA revealing us would have done nothing but get us to come forward.
In this scenario, Scum lose little by having OA come forward. They allow 2 Masons to go on unchecked but OA does not come into the line of fire."I only check Role/Items, I didn't know they were both Town!"
Assuming 1 Mason is Town and 1 Mason is Scum:
You can break this one down WAY more: Scum!Sawneeks/Town!Kyan or Town!Sawneeks/Scum!Kyan.
Scum!Sawneeks/Town!Kyan:
Scum!OA checks somebody else completely but claims to check his teammate Sawneeks, forcing a reveal. Scum!Sawneeks hesitates to reveal and Town!Kyan comes forward instead to clear up the Mason discussion. Scum!OA begins to bus his teammate Sawneeks but the lynch ultimately ends up going nowhere.
Scum lose quite a lot here. Scum!OA throws his teammate out into the open and checks someone else for an item instead. Scum!Sawneeks fake 'hesitates' to reveal so Town!Kyan does it instead, leading to Sawneeks being the lynch candidate for multiple Days. This possibly leads to Scum losing the Mason chat connection to get a Townie on their side, not to mention getting one of their own to get lynched. Scum would have benefited more by staying quiet here and having OA 'check' someone else.
Town!Sawneeks/Scum!Kyan:
Same start as the last one. Scum!OA checks somebody else completely but claims to check Town!Sawneeks in order to force a reveal. Sawneeks hesitates, Scum!Kyan comes forward instead to reveal the Mason duo.
Scum, again, lose a lot here. They reveal the Masons even though they have one of their own in that mix and open up the possibility for the Mason connection to be broken. Instead of allowing their Scum ally to win over a Townie, they instead invite both to be lynched. They would have benefited far more if OA had claimed to check someone else and allowed their Mason 'gambit' to go on uninterrupted.
tl;dr Scum!OA revealing 2 Town Masons is weird considering the Scum team could have just NKed them ( again, why leave Masons alive? ) and Scum!OA revealing in the 1 Town/1 Scum scenario leads to pressure on their teammate that would not have been there before.
Your turn. c:
He didn't give a name, i.e. he provided no actual information for town. I'm baffled how much people seem to defend OA, given his voting record, his contributions and his reveal. This guy's best defense was "Well, it would be really stupid for scum to claim a power role", which is a horrendous defense, because guess what, the reveal isn't the smartest thing to do from a town perspective either.
He threatened to give out a name, he was waiting to see the general responses from everyone including me. Are you suggesting he took a guess as to who the Masons were and just happened to guess right and get them to reveal??
And you're one to talk, Topo. Your defense has consisted of ignoring questions you don't feel like answering. Which, I should say, is a lot of questions.
How is the reveal not smart from a Town perspective?? Enlighten me on that one.
I have to say I agree with topo if the plan is to lynch one of the cops. In my shoes and for my personal gain it would be better to lynch Sketch, because if she is telling the truth then that easily clean me and the pool to pick from for scum gets a bit smaller.
Yesterday I defended Oceanic but today he is still alive. Scum could have believed his claim that he had no shots left, but then you'll have to wonder why believe him at all? Killing him in the night made more sense than killing our vigilante the night he got the item.
I still don't feel comfortable with lynching either of them, since the excuse to lynch them is that they came forward and gave info to town and there is lot of reaches here.
I think we will have a better chance of hitting scum somewhere else.
Yesterday I defended Oceanic but today he is still alive. Scum could have believed his claim that he had no shots left, but then you'll have to wonder why believe him at all? Killing him in the night made more sense than killing our vigilante the night he got the item.
I still don't feel comfortable with lynching either of them, since the excuse to lynch them is that they came forward and gave info to town and there is lot of reaches here.
I think we will have a better chance of hitting scum somewhere else.
What are you talking about? Why would he have to guess? You're not making sense there.
The Rorschach test (after N0), having introduced a similar concept in Danny Phantom Mafia (albeit there with actual non-gambit intentions), explicitly lamenting that not more people took it and casting a vote on melon, all that while not pushing for her lynch, should be blatantly obvious as a gambit to breadcrum cop and lure out mafia. In hindsight obviously pointless if we all start off powerless. I considered this a discussion that would only lead us astray and serve mafia, so I ignored it.
How is revealing role cop, without providing anything immediately incriminating and while having another shot, a smart move for a town role?
I would also wager that role cop is more helpful for scum, who may have used it to find ynnek, in which case (given he iirc had two nights) presumably Sawneeks, Kyanrute or Kark would be scum. It's entirely possible though that ynnek was lynched for different reasons, I don't think we ever investigated his actions/votes/posts, did we?
Now you're ready to start putting some actual pressure on Kyan?
I wouldn't say you're "Cleared" until Star flips as Town Cop. BUT, we may not have the luxury of affording time for an information flip. So, I'm willing to go along with StarSketch and leave her alive, and assume her result is accurate - for now.
UNVOTE: Sawneeks
Mafia will either NK Sketch because she's a threat, or not - to make us think she's still a threat. It's beginning to look a lot like WIFOM.
I swear if this Day ends on a Star lynch I will personally lynch everyone involved in that vote.
"He didn't give a name, i.e. he provided no actual information for town."
So he just 'made up' the name Sawneeks?? OA did come forward with a name so where did this 'he didn't give a name' come from??
...what.
So you're claiming cop??
Or you're claiming to gambit and pretend to be cop??
So you're saying you basically BSed and lied for the Melon vote?
OA had no more shots! He checked Kark, saw Ordinary and kept quiet, and then checked me the following Night. Thus using all his shots.
"He didn't give a name, i.e. he provided no actual information for town."
So he just 'made up' the name Sawneeks?? OA did come forward with a name so where did this 'he didn't give a name' come from??
...what.
So you're claiming cop??
Or you're claiming to gambit and pretend to be cop??
So you're saying you basically BSed and lied for the Melon vote?
OA had no more shots! He checked Kark, saw Ordinary and kept quiet, and then checked me the following Night. Thus using all his shots.
Ynnek won the 1-shot Vig the Night he died, meaning if Scum!OA investigated him when he fake 'investigated' me the Night prior he would have found nothing.
Try again, Topo.
Only if you're ready to start answering my questions instead of brushing them aside. c:
Why would mafia NK Sketch? If she is town, lynching her would give us clarity on two players. Letting her live and instead lynching those she did not investigate doesn't seem unreasonable, no? Also assuming scum won the cruise, they might be able to hinder her investigation during the night.
OceanicAir
Member
I most definitely did not claim before using my shots. I'm a 2-shot role cop in a game chock full of ordinaries. How do you expect to have a treasure trove of information?
Willing to put any names forward?
OceanicAir
Member
Topo what's your opinion of nin since you like to harp about voting records and contributions?
Sawneeks, please be so kind and check your timeline. OA revealed his role on D3 (#889), before he had used up all his shots.
It's perfectly reasonable, even moreso as they can (directly) lose at most one mafia member according to her explanation, which seems mostly to get mafia to NK her actually. If they NK her, they give us confirmation about two roles. This is without taking into account that they may have won the cruise, which might give them a way to hinder her investigation. I haven't done the math, i.e. how many players are left, how many roles would be confirmed etc. and I have no idea what the cruise does, but at first sight it definitely doesn't seem too unreasonable.
If she is scum, they obviously won't NK her either.
It's perfectly reasonable, even moreso as they can (directly) lose at most one mafia member according to her explanation, which seems mostly to get mafia to NK her actually. If they NK her, they give us confirmation about two roles. This is without taking into account that they may have won the cruise, which might give them a way to hinder her investigation. I haven't done the math, i.e. how many players are left, how many roles would be confirmed etc. and I have no idea what the cruise does, but at first sight it definitely doesn't seem too unreasonable.
If she is scum, they obviously won't NK her either.
I mean, they let a role cop live.
Nin didn't do anything of use until I called him out for his voting record and lack of posts. Since then he has posted a lot more, but without going through his posts, I have no idea if he ever actually contributed.
Nin didn't do anything of use until I called him out for his voting record and lack of posts. Since then he has posted a lot more, but without going through his posts, I have no idea if he ever actually contributed.
Oh, right, I looked up your post there from D4. Nevermind. You said you had investigated Kark on N2. Checks out.
He did not provide any sufficient information to obtain your name. If he had kept it this way, if Kyanrute had not come forward, this would not have helped us.
What? No. Obviously I had to choose someone that seemed suspicious to me (and making a list as she did in #383 is a surefire way to get me worked up), it makes no sense to choose someone that you think is town for the gambit to possibly work.
Yeah, I looked up his post from the conversation with Christina on D4. Checks out.
Day 3
Day 4
OA said he used his shots like so:
Night 1: Wins Laptop. Presumably investigates me.
Day 2
Night 2: Looks at Kark
Day 3: Reveals Mason information.
He used all the shots, Topo. Check your facts, m8.
So you are suggesting they won't NK her because they will only lose 1 Scum team member? 1 out of 3 ( or 4 ) remaining members is still a HUGE blow to a team that wins when they don't get caught. It would also allow us to extend the game by making majority harder for the Scum team to get. Is that your reasoning for wanting star lynched? 'Let's do Scum's job for them and flip the Cop?'
So Scum either get 1 of their Members caught by the Cop or they NK the Cop, confirming her 2 checks were legit, and then proceed to NK those 2. And you're saying the first option makes more sense??
Vacation seems like a Commuter role. If anything, Scum would get a pass for 1 Night since Star wouldn't be able to target them. However, this is guessing that they A) won the item and B) Star targets the exact Scum member who has that item and they don't NK her. She presumably wouldn't lose her Cop power though since she technically didn't 'hit' Scum. But the BBQ also wasn't an arsonist item so each item seems to be subverting what people think it might be.
And yeah, if she is Scum they won't NK her but if she is Scum why did she claim? And before you say 'well it's to save her scum buddy Sawneeks' then why didn't she claim yesterday rather than today.
While I'm writing up a bit on the rest, I would like to go through the numbers which takes a bit time, let me answer this part right now.
First of all she cast the final vote on Kalor, putting him far enough ahead. Assuming both of you are scum, there may not have been a need for her to claim. Furthermore, claiming cop to save a single scum player is very risky, so maybe she decided to wait another night to cover her bases a bit. I'm not even sure if she is even lying regarding you and Salva. The truth makes a great alibi.
Claiming cop is a fantastic way to seem trustworthy to town. Given that we are presumably at 8-3, assuming 4 mafia players (as 5 seems wholly unbalanced), it could be seen as a reasonable enough gambit. If she survives one or two days, she's served her purpose and her death will only lead to more suspicions.
I'm not on principle opposed to lynching someone else, but I will admit that (as with Magnum) I prefer the safe moves that give us confirmation/information. Just randomly lynching someone on a hunch leads to crap like the Kalor lynch from before.
First of all she cast the final vote on Kalor, putting him far enough ahead. Assuming both of you are scum, there may not have been a need for her to claim. Furthermore, claiming cop to save a single scum player is very risky, so maybe she decided to wait another night to cover her bases a bit. I'm not even sure if she is even lying regarding you and Salva. The truth makes a great alibi.
Claiming cop is a fantastic way to seem trustworthy to town. Given that we are presumably at 8-3, assuming 4 mafia players (as 5 seems wholly unbalanced), it could be seen as a reasonable enough gambit. If she survives one or two days, she's served her purpose and her death will only lead to more suspicions.
I'm not on principle opposed to lynching someone else, but I will admit that (as with Magnum) I prefer the safe moves that give us confirmation/information. Just randomly lynching someone on a hunch leads to crap like the Kalor lynch from before.
I'll probably do that tomorrow. I packed things in my old apartment/moved, so right now I'd prefer to relax a bit. I'd like to actually look at the numbers, i.e. whether not lynching a town cop makes sense enough if we look at all things.
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ lynch karkador ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Nah, but seriously, I lost my motivation to vote him out. Right now I am getting convinced that Oceanic is scum, who is it that is going strongest against him again?
Nah, but seriously, I lost my motivation to vote him out. Right now I am getting convinced that Oceanic is scum, who is it that is going strongest against him again?
CornBurrito
Member
The key thing Sawneeks, is that if OA is scum and OA revealed the Masons, town has successfully lynched 0 scum as a result of the Mason reveal. In fact, your ass was going to be lynched today if not for StarSketch and her COMPLETELY UNRELATED power.
So it seems weird that you are painting OA revealing "hey I found a Mason" as some huge town move and ultra proof that OA is town. Like... I don't get it. I simply disagree that revealing he found a Mason was some big play that only makes sense if he is town.
Being honest about finding a Mason isn't a big deal. Honesty builds town trust as well. See how well it worked on you.
So it seems weird that you are painting OA revealing "hey I found a Mason" as some huge town move and ultra proof that OA is town. Like... I don't get it. I simply disagree that revealing he found a Mason was some big play that only makes sense if he is town.
Being honest about finding a Mason isn't a big deal. Honesty builds town trust as well. See how well it worked on you.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
the point is that now they know, like for certain, that they should kill star. if it was kept vague then there is still the chance that scum might think that shes less of a threat, that she has used up the role and someone else is a better night kill, since killing star would only confirm her claims. its not hugely likely, but its possible, now its not, and we have very little to show for it.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
i cant help but notice that we have seen like nothing from Christina today.
i feel kinda hypocritical saying this, but ayyyy.
StarSketch
Banned
so was I supposed to lie about how many shots I had or
StarSketch
Banned
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
mobilegaf?
no, lying would likely just lead to more problems further down the line.
really i think you just shouldn't have answered OAs initial question.
RIP Kalor
Here's everybody who voted for Kalor, and the post they made while doing so:
Votes Kalor on a hunch over some number/balance speculation
The classic Sawneeks misdirection of Left Hand voting for someone the Right Hand isn't even talking about
THEN WHY DID YOU VOTE
To be fair, nin retracted this vote after Kalor responded to him, but this still got the steam train rolling
Alright, go ahead and look at his analysis.
What does it ultimately boil down to?
That's the "analysis" Salva keeps pointing back to. Give me a break.
Other interesting things from that same post:
In other words, no reason
You asked why you should vote Kalor, and ran with SalvaPot's awful response.
Ok.
It's a disgrace.
Here's everybody who voted for Kalor, and the post they made while doing so:
Votes Kalor on a hunch over some number/balance speculation
The classic Sawneeks misdirection of Left Hand voting for someone the Right Hand isn't even talking about
THEN WHY DID YOU VOTE
Since we have around 4 hours left, let's make this interesting.
Vote: Kalor
Please respond
To be fair, nin retracted this vote after Kalor responded to him, but this still got the steam train rolling
Alright, go ahead and look at his analysis.
What does it ultimately boil down to?
That's the "analysis" Salva keeps pointing back to. Give me a break.
Other interesting things from that same post:
In other words, no reason
You asked why you should vote Kalor, and ran with SalvaPot's awful response.
Ok.
It's a disgrace.
Kark are you going to accuse someone or just kind of grumble about how much you don't like the Kalor vote.
And thanks for conveniently not quoting the posts where I lay out my suspicions about Kalor multiple times. :|
IF Star survives 2 more Days then I would not be against her lynch as that would be 2 more Night phases where she can investigate people and potentially hit Scum.
I'm not on board lynching her this Day phase. Doing Scum's work for them is incredibly ridiculous.
...When did I say OA revealing the Masons was this HUGE 100% Town move? I asked you to present a reasonable scenario where a Scum OA would do that because I don't see a reason for him to do that.
Maybe OA revealed his info because it would gain him #TowniePoints but I'm going to ask again, why reveal when they could have just NKed either of us and gotten that out of the way?
And thanks for conveniently not quoting the posts where I lay out my suspicions about Kalor multiple times. :|
IF Star survives 2 more Days then I would not be against her lynch as that would be 2 more Night phases where she can investigate people and potentially hit Scum.
I'm not on board lynching her this Day phase. Doing Scum's work for them is incredibly ridiculous.
...When did I say OA revealing the Masons was this HUGE 100% Town move? I asked you to present a reasonable scenario where a Scum OA would do that because I don't see a reason for him to do that.
Maybe OA revealed his info because it would gain him #TowniePoints but I'm going to ask again, why reveal when they could have just NKed either of us and gotten that out of the way?
CornBurrito
Member
Mason reveal gives townie points.
And a Mason chat isn't that big a deal for scum. Big fucking whoop, you communicate with Kyan. Who you aren't even sure is town, and who has no more special insight into the game than you do. Yeah I bet scum is fucking trembling in their boots.
I hear Scum is even wetting their pants at the mere thought of Masons.
and do you have anything else against OA? Because so far I remain unconvinced but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
CornBurrito
Member
I don't really have much else to go on besides his question to SSketch. And I find his reasoning for it very unconvincing.