The Real China
- Thread starter DancingJesus
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And you know what? People can and would do this AND no one would try and stop them or become an apologetic shill / viral marketer for failures in U.S. policy.duckroll said:
That's the difference between a society founded on collective deliberation and one ruled by authoritarianism.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
What am i supposed to do about this again?
China - what a bunch of assholes!
China - what a bunch of assholes!
ryutaro's mama
Member
wmat said:
Seriously man?
Are you seriously asking this question?
The problem with the picture is, that for the sake of putting on a good face, the Chinese government has a wall set up to hide the impoverished from the view of tourists/press.
Who gives a shit what the kid is doing...
China is working to improve itself and basically bending over backwards to seem modernized for all the westerners watching during these olympics.
yet all i seem to see during non-sports coverage is how much of a fucked up country and culture it is.
i'm the first to admit that it's not a perfect place, but they are growing and progressing at an incredible rate, not everything/everyone can be lifted out of poverty simultaneously.
yet all i seem to see during non-sports coverage is how much of a fucked up country and culture it is.
i'm the first to admit that it's not a perfect place, but they are growing and progressing at an incredible rate, not everything/everyone can be lifted out of poverty simultaneously.
The picture is exaggerated, yes, but it does illustrate the point.
Having been to HK (I'm Chinese) and several friends from China, we share the same opinion that there is a strong class division within Chinese society. The dichotomy is so strong that you can literally walk of a main street full of luxury and modern life to alleyways full of poverty.
As many documentaries have eloquently pointed out, the key to Chinese prosperty has always been education -- but costs (and in some ways, natural intelligence) have always gotten in the way. I could not really understand why Asian parents would push their children so hard when I was little, but now I do. For many, education is the only way to escape poverty.
Unfortunately, not many Chinese families have such opportunities. Many are born into poor familes -- and have been poor for many generations. There is often not enough time to study and make a living. Children often move away from home so they can earn enough money to send their younger siblings to school. Meanwhile, others have gotten rich and have lost sight of their roots, leading to the wide disconnect within Chinese society.
Strangely enough, the one thing that does bind Chinese society is food and a good meal.
Having been to HK (I'm Chinese) and several friends from China, we share the same opinion that there is a strong class division within Chinese society. The dichotomy is so strong that you can literally walk of a main street full of luxury and modern life to alleyways full of poverty.
As many documentaries have eloquently pointed out, the key to Chinese prosperty has always been education -- but costs (and in some ways, natural intelligence) have always gotten in the way. I could not really understand why Asian parents would push their children so hard when I was little, but now I do. For many, education is the only way to escape poverty.
Unfortunately, not many Chinese families have such opportunities. Many are born into poor familes -- and have been poor for many generations. There is often not enough time to study and make a living. Children often move away from home so they can earn enough money to send their younger siblings to school. Meanwhile, others have gotten rich and have lost sight of their roots, leading to the wide disconnect within Chinese society.
Strangely enough, the one thing that does bind Chinese society is food and a good meal.
Well, when you got many people in your country who doesn't even have the most basic living condition such as electricity and other utilities in your capital city, I think the money is better spent on those infrastructure instead of their supposed "coming out party". I recognize no country is perfect and there are bums in my resident country, Canada. However, there is still a relatively higher standard of living enjoyed by the majority of Canadians.linsivvi said:
Gee, I wonder what the fuck is wrong about it. Seriously, it's pretty obvious it's a fucking terrible scene. It's strongly reminiscent of a third-world country. And that's the fucking issue. In this picture, we see a literal example of China hiding the slums just to promote a sporting event.linsivvi said:
"B-b-but the same could be said of other countries! Don't pick on China!"
give me a fucking break
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
this is exactly what I was thinking.wmat said:
Gaaaaaaaaaah, the thing is, what if we do actually give a shit about the poverty conditions around the world? Here's a little fact that may escape your attention. The focus is on CHINA right now. The OLYMPICS is drawing all that attention. After the olympics ends, people will quit focusing singularly on China and focus on the rest of the world. At least I hope.SpeedingUptoStop said:
zoku88 said:
no its 40 billion dollars not yuan, 40.9 billion dollars to be more exact
http://www.2008beijingolimpics.com/the-olympics/the-beijing-olympics-the-most-expensive-games-in-history/
edit:
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/showsports.aspx?id=SPOEN20080060086&ch=8/4/2008 9:09:00 PM
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Exactly. A couple months back, shit was going haywire in Kenya. Was on the news for a couple days. Aaaaaand now I guess it was just no big deal...Jenga said:
ryutaro's mama
Member
aswedc said:
Middle class???
In China?!?!?
No way!
That's impossible.
Under true Communism, everyone's equal, right?
Right?
If one guy drives a Ferrari, everyone drives a Ferrari....
RIGHT?!?!?!
GenericPseudonym
Banned
Blackace said:
I understand but building a middle class is gradual, it took the US and Europe decades to move from the outset of the Industrial Revolution to the creation of a large middle class. China has had its doors open fro what? Twenty five years? Give it some damn time, these changes take a very long time.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
THAT'S what's troubling you? That you can't see beggars scratching from the other side of the wall?ryutaro's mama said:
Well, welcome to the 21st century. Panem et circenses, that's what you asked for, so you get that.
If it weren't for the Olympic Games, you wouldn't give a shit about this. You'll forget all about this in about half a year. That's the sad part, if you ask me.
Setting up a good face is part of the whole circus. It is a basic ingredient of big sports events.
Let's be honest, you didn't really want to see what's behind those walls.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Really? I thought 40 mill on the world's most sacred sporting event was lowballing it.NetMapel said:I updated my post, hahaQuite frankly I'm shocked that it's BILLIONS not millions...
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
GenericPseudonym said:
they keep allowing companies..new companies and old ones to expand in their country. No this isn't about a gradual thing because they have shown no signs of changing this. The government still views its people as a resource that it can use to trade with..
DancingJesus said:
This kind of commentary is ridiculously childish and naive. And so are alot of posts in this thread, so many of you are brainwashed and aligned with Western propaganda.. of course, it's ALL propaganda. If you ever step into China you'll find that the people are mostly happy, with its troubled spots just like any other nation in the world.
And you know what? Plenty of the poorest people in the rural areas are FUCKING PROUD of the Olympics.
I work in Beijing, China.
SentientStone
Member
That picture has its own discourse and agenda, though there is truth in that I'd admit as there are parts of China that are 'below standard of living' according to whichever standard we live by. It will take time for China to develop their economy and living standards for their nation as a whole. Other countries experienced the same during their developments (i.e. the United States and Canada).
I do not like the media propagation of the 'evil Chinese regime', whether to deliberately hinder economic development of the country or perhaps secure their own little feeling of superiority. Again, I understand there are human rights issues in China, but the country is still constantly developing and improving in this regards.
Given the opportunity to host a major world even such as the Olympics, of course, any country would try and do the best they could. Moreover, Asians take high regards in something called 'face' so giving the best show they can for the Olympics would help in that regard. :lol
I do not like the media propagation of the 'evil Chinese regime', whether to deliberately hinder economic development of the country or perhaps secure their own little feeling of superiority. Again, I understand there are human rights issues in China, but the country is still constantly developing and improving in this regards.
Given the opportunity to host a major world even such as the Olympics, of course, any country would try and do the best they could. Moreover, Asians take high regards in something called 'face' so giving the best show they can for the Olympics would help in that regard. :lol
What you guys fail to realize is that the house in the picture most likely is worth an insane amount of money.
It's really difficult to explain to others how things work in China or even Asia as a whole. Just because it looks like people are living in poverty doesn't mean that's really the case. The older generation of people are still living the same way they have lived even though alot of them are sleeping in a pool of money given by the government as a result of the reconstruction. (People who got kicked out of their homes due to reconstruction are given brand new houses plus other compensations. It's really crazy how it's now a social problem in China's big cities of all the rich people that don't have to work due to this).
If you want to talk about poverty in China, don't post pictures of Beijing. Post pictures from the rural areas where there are no running water or electricity, where people have to walk for miles to fetch the water that they will use to do everything in a day.
It's really difficult to explain to others how things work in China or even Asia as a whole. Just because it looks like people are living in poverty doesn't mean that's really the case. The older generation of people are still living the same way they have lived even though alot of them are sleeping in a pool of money given by the government as a result of the reconstruction. (People who got kicked out of their homes due to reconstruction are given brand new houses plus other compensations. It's really crazy how it's now a social problem in China's big cities of all the rich people that don't have to work due to this).
If you want to talk about poverty in China, don't post pictures of Beijing. Post pictures from the rural areas where there are no running water or electricity, where people have to walk for miles to fetch the water that they will use to do everything in a day.
GenericPseudonym
Banned
Blackace said:
People are a resource and proper management of them is key. One hundred years ago Americans worked like dogs for little money in terrible factories run by rich industrialists, it's not the same anymore, and China will not be the same fifty years from now.
Regardless its better these people work for little money than be unemployed and receive nothing, both for them and the economy in general.
Jenga said:
I don't know what your expectation of living standards in most part of Asia is. Perhaps you think everybody lives in a nice house with a lawn and a swimming pool. What's wrong is if you want to post a picture that reflects the real poverty situation of China, there are pictures that would do a way better job than that, coz this one doesn't even come close.
Srider said:
Exactly what I wanted to say. Most people here are so spoiled by what they've been given that they think THIS is bad. This is actually pretty decent in Asian standard.
rollingstart
Banned
Wollan said:
:lol
And I think it is hilarious (in a sort of sad way) how they just blocked off all the messy parts away. That is a total Futurama like solution to the problem.
wmat said:
When I was in China back in 2003 I remember a few people mentioning the government making large billboards and signs to cover up such 'temporal encroachments'. I also remember looking through many myself. While this picture alone may not say anything, the action by the government speaks in volumes. Instead of fixing their shit and helping their people, they'd rather put them behind large signs so that all the tourists don't get put off.
In my brief visit, that last sentence to me was sort of ironic.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
GenericPseudonym said:
The biggest difference is now the Chinese are being exploited internationally instead of internally. The government makes some money from it, some rich people make more and the people don't get enough money to recycle into the economy. In America it was mostly internal which means that businesses who were befitting was American businesses which after time turned into better jobs. Nike isn't a Chinese business..
but I will admit I am no expect on economics, just a history major's armchair judgment..
I love how people leep to the defense of China ith 'bu bu but the US did some fucked up shit to'
Great, that is true, but in the US we can march in protest, blog about injustice, have a watchdog free press, and can change our very government through free elections if we dont like its direction.
In China if you speak against something you dont like you go to jail, and a special version of the internet that white washes history to keep the masses uninformed.
Great, that is true, but in the US we can march in protest, blog about injustice, have a watchdog free press, and can change our very government through free elections if we dont like its direction.
In China if you speak against something you dont like you go to jail, and a special version of the internet that white washes history to keep the masses uninformed.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
All the US-american, australian, canadian and western european posters are living at a standard so high above the rest of the world that they really don't know what poverty in China actually means. Myself included.
I grew up in a poor household, yet situated in a rich country. What I consider bad living conditions is the good life almost everywhere else in the world.
I grew up in a poor household, yet situated in a rich country. What I consider bad living conditions is the good life almost everywhere else in the world.
Jeez, you should understand that propaganda works both way. The Chinese government's absolute refusal to admit any wrongdoings or listening to its people should be addressed. Instead of asking why foreign medias are being so harsh on the Chinese government, one should ask how the media is able to get so much "bad" material to talk about in regards to China.gantz85 said:
just wikipedia. Google searched and all. First one was "Demographics of China" or something like that. Second one was "poverty rate of China"NetMapel said:
China might be People's Republic of China. In any case, it was easy for google to find them.
EDIT: Of course, it's a question of 'what IS the poverty line of China' which I didn't really care to look. I do know that the gov't believes that the cost per living in a urban area per month is something equal to $22 a month... $9 for rural areas.
All of that per person.
StoOgE said:
And if they really don't like you they might just sell your organs to that sick guy in New York who just bought some shoes from Saks that your wife made after working 6 and 1/2 days a week, for about a dollar a day, living in a small, non-air conditioned room with eight other workers and no running water.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4921116.stm
But hey "its better these people work for little money than be unemployed and receive nothing, both for them and the economy in general."
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
Democracy vs. socialism - always a neat topic. I'm going to stay out of it.StoOgE said:
What you're saying about the US is basically true.
What you're saying about China though - you don't really know all that, do you? That's what your watchdog free press told you, right?
Now there's nothing wrong with that, it is the only information source for you after all. But from what you're typing here, I dare to say you wouldn't be able to bring up evidence for all those things.
Partly because China doesn't have such a liberal information policy as most other countries, and that's a problem. But what it boils down to is that you don't really know all that.
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