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[The Orange]

yes it does.. not the country, but the people

Of course, but they're having enough trouble lifting their nation out of poverty without kicking inflation into high gear, imagine what would happen if you tried to fast-forward that process. They don't want to poo in their own rice-bowl. These ideas to change the nation are great until you put economics into play, and everything starts falling like dominos (dominoes?) .

 

[Fun Factor]

Good thing we have a free press that uncovers these things so we can condemn them and hopefully prevent them from happening again.

We'll probably never know the totality of what the Chicoms did that was questionable in their preparations for the Olympics.

Funny fact, none of the large media outlets covered this when it was happening or if they did, they sugar coated it.
You can find this info now, but back than it was only reported from small & local newspapers pretty much exclusively.

CNN & such are pretty much Fox news lite when it comes to "free press" & journalism.

I can't believe a mod can be so ignorant as you are. Not being able to make as much as you do doesn't mean they are living like slaves.

:lol
I love how people refuse to admit such a thing as slave labor.

 

[_Xenon_]

but they are. check out the cost of living in China and get back to me about ignorance. the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger not smaller. they have no established middle class.

Sure the gap is getting wider, so is every other country in the world, then why pick China only?

And trust me you don't know anything about the cost of living in China.

 

[Blackace]

Sure the gap is getting wider, so is every other country in the world, then why pick China only?

And trust me you don't know anything about the cost of living in China.

If you say so.. while I haven't lived there long term I have been and I have quite few friends who do live there. Do I know exactly how it cost to live there? No..but I do know that the bigger cities are rivaling Tokyo, New York and London. And yes this is happening in other countries but happened after they established a middle working class who had to chance to improve their living.

And yes any country that has children sweat shops is using slave labor.

Or is that ignorant too, because the kids who should be in school so they can learn the skills to help pull their country into the super power they can become are making shoes?

 

[Karakand]

Funny fact, none of the large media outlets covered this when it was happening or if they did, they sugar coated it.
You can find this info now, but back than it was only reported from small & local newspapers pretty much exclusively.

CNN & such are pretty much Fox news lite when it comes to "free press" & journalism

This contradicts my statement that in our system the truth eventually rises to the surface how?

 

[Neo C.]

All those american companies actually help a ton of chinese. Working in a sweatshop is way better than being a chinese farmer.

Seriously, people need to understand that asia is not europe, north ameria or south ameria. It's not as easy as "oh look blame wal-mart."

They help them as long as they work for low payment, low as fuck. Though these helpful companies are starting to shift to even cheaper countries like indonesia.

I don't blame the companies, they are just doing their business. But there isn't any intention of help, when they move their factories and thousands of people lose their job. And it isn't like these people can easily go back to be peasants again.

 

[_Xenon_]

And yes any country that has children sweat shops is using slave labor.

Or is that ignorant too, because the kids who should be in school so they can learn the skills to help pull their country into the super power they can become are making shoes?

Now we're talking about child labor in China? I don't know what kind of bullshit your friends are telling you but I can be sure those foreign companies in question dare not to hire under-aged labors because the law in China simply forbids it.

Well it's true that illegal child labors do exist in China even today, especially in the rural China where they have to dig coals to make a living, but I don't think it's a big ratio compared to the amount of children in China.

 

[Blackace]

Now we're talking about child labor in China? I don't know what kind of bullshit your friends are telling you but I can be sure those foreign companies in question dare not to hire under-aged labors because the law in China simply forbids it.

Well it's true that illegal child labors do exist in China even today, especially in the rural China where they have to dig coals to make a living, but I don't think it's a big ratio compared to the amount of children in China.

Whatever man. Western companies (Nike, Wal-mart) have had SO many child issues brought up. You can deny but it is there. My friends don't tell me this, they just tell me that it isn't cheap to live in China. The fact that you called me ignorant because you assumed I was basing my opinion on how I make compared to a sweatshop and you downplay the damage that sweatshops cause quite few people's lives shows that you are set on defending the route that China's government decided upon. Now many have the same idea as you and were able to present with facts and opinions. I can name call, I tell you that "whoever that bullshit is stupid" I am willing to learn more than I know by discussion. If you think that sweatshops are good for China tell me why. If you think that the government is doing the right thing tell me why. I am not comparing China to the US or to anywhere really. My 5 years in Asia and counting has taught that Asia is very different than the west and the only to look the situations is without your western ideas if you can. I have studied Asian culture and history seriously for about 10 years, but admittedly my focus is Japan. So educate me if you can.

 

[_Xenon_]

Whatever man. Western companies (Nike, Wal-mart) have had SO many child issues brought up. You can deny but it is there. My friends don't tell me this, they just tell me that it isn't cheap to live in China. The fact that you called me ignorant because you assumed I was basing my opinion on how I make compared to a sweatshop and you downplay the damage that sweatshops cause quite few people's lives shows that you are set on defending the route that China's government decided upon. Now many have the same idea as you and were able to present with facts and opinions. I can name call, I tell you that "whoever that bullshit is stupid" I am willing to learn more than I know by discussion. If you think that sweatshops are good for China tell me why. If you think that the government is doing the right thing tell me why. I am not comparing China to the US or to anywhere really. My 5 years in Asia and counting has taught that Asia is very different than the west and the only to look the situations is without your western ideas if you can. I have studied Asian culture and history seriously for about 10 years, but admittedly my focus is Japan. So educate me if you can.

1. I'm not comparing China to the US either, nor I'm saying China is prefect. I just try to point out China is definitely not like the shit hole you described based on your imagination.
2. If your friends are trying to live a life with similar living standard in the US, sure it's costy. Well if your friends are telling you they find it hard to even feed themselves or to not live like a slave, then it's their problem.
3. Looks like your years of Asian education failed pretty hard in the China part. I don't have nor need 10 years Asian education and I still can call you're wrong. Why? Because I was born here and have been living here for 26 years?

 

[qcf x2]

I hate how every news station is licking China's ass just because of the Olympics. Let's just forget about human rights violations for a minute the more important sport is on. The world is such a great superficial place.

I hate how I don't know wtf you're talking about as all I'm seeing is the opposite. All I see is journalists desperately seeking the bad and glossing over the good. I see more coverage of protests and Americans wearing gas masks than analysis of the events or the significance of the Olympics for China. It's what happens when a country in doubt and facing uncertainty is watching another rise in power, I guess, but it is annoying.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I hate how every news station is licking China's ass just because of the Olympics. Let's just forget about human rights violations for a minute the more important sport is on. The world is such a great superficial place.

I hate those people more who say that you shouldn't criticise China because it's the Olympic Games and they are unpolitical bla bla bla..

 

[Karakand]

The Olympics were significant for their host in 1936 too.

They usually are significant for the host, that's why people want to host them. Therefore reporting on that is the epitome of "inane".

The CCP isn't going to dissolve magically when we extinguish the Olympic flame. Quite the opposite, really. Hosting the Olympics is a huge coup for them and their plans to remain in power in perpetuity. Why should anyone that values the free exchange of information like a reporter be excited about that?

 

[layzie1989]

i seriously expected more photoshops

 

[wolfmat]

i seriously expected more photoshops

http://i35.tinypic.com/2nsb3vq.jpg[/ IMG][/QUOTE]
:lol :lol
[IMG]http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k433/wolfmat/og08.png

 

[zoku88]

Holy :lol :lol :lol

 

[MrHicks]

hong kong seems to be the only place in china that doesn't seem to suck ass

 

[zoku88]

hong kong seems to be the only place in china that doesn't seem to suck ass

...

China has lots of nice places in it :-/

(and HK is dirty.)

 

[Feral Youth]

*lol* thread of total seriousness suddenly morphs into, hilarity and japes

 

[Munin]

...

China has lots of nice places in it :-/

(and HK is dirty.)

Hong Kong is still Asia's greenest city. All depends on where you go.

 

[zoku88]

Hong Kong is still Asia's greenest city. All depends on where you go.

I didn't mean the air, I meant the ground and buildings and stuff.

There's this really nice city in China where one of my friends comes from. I forget the name, but it's one of the closest chinese cities to taiwan. It's beautiful, though.

From the pictures she showed me, at least.

EDIT: Oh, it was on her facebook. It's Xiamen.

EDIT2: Apparently, it was voted as the cleanest city in China and its a sister city to Baltimore.

 

[cilonen]

It's not just that though. Here in Australia at least, the News channel showing the games has been consistantly putting on specials showing the Chinese way of life, culture etc etc portraying China as some kind of perfect humanitarian society. Ignoring China's past during the games is perfectly acceptable but putting them in this false light is completely bullshit.

Yeah, get back to us once you close those immigration detention centres.

 

[Fuzz Rez]

hong kong seems to be the only place in china that doesn't seem to suck ass

Have you actually visited china ? I have only positive things to say about China and I really enjoyed my trip over there. Lovely country.

 

[Raiden]

You think China is bad? Check out North Korea. Christ its not like America does not have poverty, fix your own goddamn problems. Same goes for Europe and ...well ...about every f'n continent.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

You think China is bad? Check out North Korea. Christ its not like America does not have poverty, fix your own goddamn problems. Same goes for Europe and ...well ...about every f'n continent.

How stupid can you be..

 

[Roi]

How stupid can you be..

No.

The poverty in the U.S. is ridiculous compared with Western Europe.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

The picture is exaggerated, yes, but it does illustrate the point.

Having been to HK (I'm Chinese) and several friends from China, we share the same opinion that there is a strong class division within Chinese society. The dichotomy is so strong that you can literally walk of a main street full of luxury and modern life to alleyways full of poverty.

Ever been to Baltimore? I lived there for 4 years because of college. You could say the same for Baltimore and for most of the downtown areas in the U.S.

 

[JCtheMC]

The poverty in the U.S. is ridiculous compared with Western Europe.

This. The Iraq war is going to cost about 3 TRILLION dollars in total. Try justifying that. That's about 10.000 dollars per citizen.

 

[Cloudy]

Yeah, cos there's no poor people in the US! I really hate this attitude of looking down on other countries/cultures like we're so perfect here...

I'm sure we can get some pics of the "real" America as well *rolleyes*

 

[thesoapster]

hong kong seems to be the only place in china that doesn't seem to suck ass

While it's technically part of China...it's...kind of still not really part of it, imo.

 

[MrHicks]

While it's technically part of China...it's...kind of still not really part of it, imo.

yeah thats what i was getting at
hong kong isn't ruled by the "MAIN" batshit insane chinese goverment
you can see it works for them

 

[yjs666]

The Real China

 

[open_mouth_]

China needs an emperor warlord to come along and unite the seven kingdoms by waging war against the rulers of said kingdoms so there can at long last be one China and everlasting piece. Why hasn't anyone thought of this yet?

 

[Tabris]

I don't understand your point? Those are two cities where you can go from wealthy to poor by a fence and the poor are pushed into "ghettos". I'll let you guess where those cities are, it's not China or any African country.

 

[StoOgE]

Democracy vs. socialism - always a neat topic. I'm going to stay out of it.

What you're saying about the US is basically true.

What you're saying about China though - you don't really know all that, do you? That's what your watchdog free press told you, right?

Now there's nothing wrong with that, it is the only information source for you after all. But from what you're typing here, I dare to say you wouldn't be able to bring up evidence for all those things.

Partly because China doesn't have such a liberal information policy as most other countries, and that's a problem. But what it boils down to is that you don't really know all that.

Wait. What?

I have seen ijterviews with people jailed for protesting their homes being demolished, read an interview with a man jailed for saying lax building standards caused the high death toll in the earthquake, the chinese version of google being whitewashed is a fact admited by google.

Han chinese being moved into western provinces to dilute the native populations is fact, tienamen square is fact.

just bc I have not seen it with my own eyes doesnt make it untrue.

 

[DancingJesus]

I think a lot of people here are missing the point of the picture. China has put up a facade for the Olympics of what they would like you to think their country is like. They ignore the poverty and hunger and try and shoe human rights movements away. The picture demonstrates that right outside the Olympic area (Which they cleaned up with billions of dollars) there is a poverty sect. Sure you could post a picture of Africa and say "The Real Africa" but that’s not the point, it’s because the Olympics are in China and all eyes are on them.

 

[rotaryspirit]

Ever been to Baltimore? I lived there for 4 years because of college. You could say the same for Baltimore and for most of the downtown areas in the U.S.

You don't even know. You can't even scratch the surface with how royally fucked up Baltimore is. 14 year old kids being put in jail for the 5th time due to stabbing. An entire city block quarantined and evacuated by city police for days until a drug war was over. The cops didn't have the manpower to stop it. This is just the anecdotal stuff, not even what happens 10 minutes from where I live almost every single day.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I think a lot of people here are missing the point of the picture. China has put up a facade for the Olympics of what they would like you to think their country is like. They ignore the poverty and hunger and try and shoe human rights movements away. The picture demonstrates that right outside the Olympic area (Which they cleaned up with billions of dollars) there is a poverty sect. Sure you could post a picture of Africa and say "The Real Africa" but that’s not the point, it’s because the Olympics are in China and all eyes are on them.

The trouble is, as others here stated, they're not the only Olympic city to do this. In fact, it'd be pretty shocking to not see them swipe this shit under the rug. They're just an Olympic City who happens to have a far larger problem in comparison to the others.

 

[sky]

It's definitely going to be interesting to see what happens once the Olympics are over.
They have the money and the manpower to put on a good show, but that's all it is...

 

[aznpxdd]

hong kong seems to be the only place in china that doesn't seem to suck ass

...

People just love talking out of their ass.

 

[Piecake]

If you say so.. while I haven't lived there long term I have been and I have quite few friends who do live there. Do I know exactly how it cost to live there? No..but I do know that the bigger cities are rivaling Tokyo, New York and London. And yes this is happening in other countries but happened after they established a middle working class who had to chance to improve their living.

And yes any country that has children sweat shops is using slave labor.

Or is that ignorant too, because the kids who should be in school so they can learn the skills to help pull their country into the super power they can become are making shoes?

Cost of living is still a whole hell of a lot cheaper in China than the cities you mentioned. Also, are you suggesting that China does not have a middle working class? That is simply ridiculous.

I don't know about sweat shops, but I am not going to disagree with you about the general poverty of the Chinese countryside. I traveled around Gansu for about 2 weeks a year ago or so and it was pretty sad seeing how poor those people were

 

[Barrett2]

I don't really understand the China bashing based on class discrepancy. Ever been to Syracuse, New York? The city has a 37% high school graduation rate. I guarantee its better than that in China.

Look, 50 years ago, ALL of China was dirt poor. The fact that they have lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty since then is probably the single biggest human rights achievement in and of itself. Obviously they still have big problems; but criticizing other countries for not being utopias is just annoying. Nations progress and advance at different rates, there are so many other countries to criticize before we should begin China-bashing, IMO.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Gee I wonder who hires them for that?

Must be teh Chinese, tehy are evil!!!
They have poverty in their country ZOMG.

... to be fair wal mart with the exclusion of its german entity tries to treat all of its associates like near slaves.

 

[MrHicks]

...

People just love talking out of their ass.

im talking goverment
OFFCOURSE the people themselves are great
jeeze

related to hong kong's somewhat independence to mainland china

mainland china= batshit insane dictator style goverment
hong kong = govermental style very close to the UK (obviously)

 

[Deku]

China isn't ready for the olympics. I'm just reminded of the impressive 'shows' in 'model cities' the North Koreans and Soviets used to do to show off their countries where the pour all their resources into that one event.

Granted China's impressive economic growth does not make the skycrapers of Beijing a lie, it does hide a lot of the squalor and 'problems' and the 70 billion they spent in the olympics, the most of any host country, is proof of the old 'model city' mentality of showing off to the world.

 

[Blackace]

1. I'm not comparing China to the US either, nor I'm saying China is prefect. I just try to point out China is definitely not like the shit hole you described based on your imagination.
2. If your friends are trying to live a life with similar living standard in the US, sure it's costy. Well if your friends are telling you they find it hard to even feed themselves or to not live like a slave, then it's their problem.
3. Looks like your years of Asian education failed pretty hard in the China part. I don't have nor need 10 years Asian education and I still can call you're wrong. Why? Because I was born here and have been living here for 26 years?

Then how can you even state that someone is trying to compare or live a western style life? Or even know what one is.. the stereotyping works both ways. Also I fully think that China could become even more stable like some of its Asian counterparts and its some of its western counterparts if it would a) spend more on infrastructure b) stop selling its people to slimeball companies for slave wages/labor. c) hammer out the human rights issues

Hopefully you'll won't be so touchy in the future about how people view your country. Sometimes it does bother me when Japanese ask if all blacks are in gangs (white people from America have asked this question too), if everyone in the states has a gun and so on.. but there is a reason why other countries and people visiting, living, or studying about a certain country view it that way...

But yet I have failed in a way that you never explained again, so thanks for you time..

 

[Piecake]

China isn't ready for the olympics. I'm just reminded of the impressive 'shows' in 'model cities' the North Koreans and Soviets used to do to show off their countries where the pour all their resources into that one event.

Granted China's impressive economic growth does not make the skycrapers of Beijing a lie, it does hide a lot of the squalor and 'problems' and the 70 billion they spent in the olympics, the most of any host country, is proof of the old 'model city' mentality of showing off to the world.

Have you visited other Chinese cities? Cities like Nanjing, Hangzhou, Qingdao, Chengdu, etc are actually pretty descent cities. Of course, poverty exists in those cities as in any other, but to imply that cities besides Beijing are shit is ignorant.

Plus, your example is misplaced since you can freely move in China.

 

[Blackace]

No.

The poverty in the U.S. is ridiculous compared with Western Europe.

Yes it is.. and the US finds new scapegoats for why every 10 years or so.. :lol

 

[Deku]

Democratization can also work both ways. A bunch of anti-tibet protestors in Tienanmen square were shouted down and shoved around by local youths.

The extreme nationalism of the population is real and the real success of the Chinese regime is tying national pride with the regime, so criticism of the communist party and its policies becomes, in the eyes of many Chinese, criticism of China and its people. It's the old anti-American knee jerk reaction some Americans react to when faced with contrarian opinions about their country, but much worse.

The current Chinese leadership, at least on many issues, appear to be passive and allow western powers to 'lead the way'. A democratic China led by a mob of ultra nationalist may produce the next demagogue that is out to dominate Asia and there's probably very little the west can do about it.

 

[StoOgE]

I don't really understand the China bashing based on class discrepancy. Ever been to Syracuse, New York? The city has a 37% high school graduation rate. I guarantee its better than that in China.

Look, 50 years ago, ALL of China was dirt poor. The fact that they have lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty since then is probably the single biggest human rights achievement in and of itself. Obviously they still have big problems; but criticizing other countries for not being utopias is just annoying. Nations progress and advance at different rates, there are so many other countries to criticize before we should begin China-bashing, IMO.

yes, lets excuse horrid human rights abuses b/c the economy is better. Freedom is a natural right, to deny it is to deny people that which makes them human. Just bc Chinas authoritarian government has begun opening up to free markets does not excuse their other horrible policies that treat their citizens as an annoyance or commodity.

China should take a look at how creating economic freedom has helped their economy and open up their country in more ways and treat its citizens as equal to the government. It will make it a better country culturally, economically and morally... but the problem is it would remove the vice grip those in power currently enjoy.

 

[typhonsentra]

Bush is leaving? Isn't that a tad disrespectful?

Wrong thread.