The Real China

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Deku said:
Democratization can also work both ways. A bunch of anti-tibet protestors in Tienanmen square were shouted down and shoved around by local youths.

The extreme nationalism of the population is real and the real success of the Chinese regime is tying national pride with the regime, so criticism of the communist party and its policies becomes, in the eyes of many Chinese, criticism of China and its people. It's the old anti-American knee jerk reaction some Americans react to when faced with contrarian opinions about their country, but much worse.

The current Chinese leadership, at least on many issues, appear to be passive and allow western powers to 'lead the way'. A democratic China led by a mob of ultra nationalist may produce the next demagogue that is out to dominate Asia and there's probably very little the west can do about it.

but that is bc free thought is a crime, you condition people by controlling the message and telling them critisism is unpatriotic. and yes, the US populace tends to do this in the early stages of war, but we get over it. Also, there are those speaking for the other side, and they dont go to jail for it.

Free up the chinese people to speak their mind and ultra nationalism will die off. It happend in Russia (and the soviet block in general) and post WW2 Italy and Germany. The problem is the CCP doesnt want this, they need this ultra nationalism to survive.
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
The trouble is, as others here stated, they're not the only Olympic city to do this. In fact, it'd be pretty shocking to not see them swipe this shit under the rug. They're just an Olympic City who happens to have a far larger problem in comparison to the others.
No, the trouble is shills keep telling us we shouldn't demand progress. The Olympics should be doing better. The Olympics should be investigating the behavior host cities take in order to present a facade to the rest of the world and punishing them for doing disgusting things.

Instead the Olympics is all about cash-money. Not really surprising... I mean one of Franco's lackeys oversaw that transition.
 
I don't see any problem with the photo.
China isn't the only ones with those kinds of neighborhoods, others as well. Nothing new.
 
There's this race to criticize China because the Olympics is putting a microscope on Beijing right now, so it seems like more people can hear about the bitching. All of the bitches about China has come up because of the games from people who know very little about the country's history, people, economy, laws, culture, society (I had a coworker the other day say that the Chinese throw people in jail for spitting on the ground...when I said that they don't, she said 'oh right, so they behead them, right?').

Again, China isn't perfect. HOWEVER, neither is any other country. While I do feel China has a LOT of room for improvement, it doesn't help that other nations and its people are attacking a country doing the best it can with the resources it has.

I'm not Christian so I may get this wrong but, isn't it 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone?' That's not to say we should never criticize China; however, it just sounds and looks hypocritical when other countries who have done similar things or committed worse atrocities get a pass (perhaps due to a higher standard of living?) whereas China doesn't get a pass for whatever reason (because some? many? don't have running water and electricity?).

Having the games has brought up every mistake China has committed in the past as well that have no bearing on the games nor should they.

Tienanmen Square? Cultural Revolution? For Christ's sake, the same government was in power, but DIFFERENT PEOPLE WERE IN CHARGE.

One child policy? Have you ever lived there? Do you know how much land is actually viable for living? Do you think the country has enough resources to sustain that many people? How would a country with 2 billion or 3 billion people live when it's seems at a breaking point now with 1 billion?

Freedom of speech? Censorship? While it is true that other countries have fewer restrictions and penalties for violating them, let's be honest THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS FREE SPEECH AND NO CENSORSHIP (does the news not censor people's faces sometimes? Do channels not censor expletives or breasts or other sexual organs sometimes? Can you invoke a right to use free speech to threaten the president? Can you utter racist slurs? Can you verbally threaten a police officer?). However, I guess those points are all OK because you have the freedom to criticize your own government, which makes things all better and is an indication of true free speech?

lawblob said:
I don't really understand the China bashing based on class discrepancy. Ever been to Syracuse, New York? The city has a 37% high school graduation rate. I guarantee its better than that in China.

Look, 50 years ago, ALL of China was dirt poor. The fact that they have lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty since then is probably the single biggest human rights achievement in and of itself. Obviously they still have big problems; but criticizing other countries for not being utopias is just annoying. Nations progress and advance at different rates, there are so many other countries to criticize before we should begin China-bashing, IMO.


Sheesh, everyday on GAF there's one of these threads. Lawblob pretty much sums up how I feel about this all.
 
being a dirt poor 3rd world contry can excuse them from a lot of things.
But a lot of the criticism has to do with their inability to adjust their political structure to match their economic development.

I'm sure there's a bit of jealousy in the criticism as well, but it doesnt invalidate that China is an emerging power that thinks he can get away with hiding in the corner doing the same things it used to do 50 years ago.
 
Deku said:
being a dirt poor 3rd world contry can excuse them from a lot of things.
But a lot of the criticism has to do with their inability to adjust their political structure to match their economic development.

I'm sure there's a bit of jealousy in the criticism as well, but it doesnt invalidate that China is an emerging power that thinks he can get away with hiding in the corner doing the same things it used to do 50 years ago.

China's a dirt poor 3rd world country and does the same things it used to do 50 years ago? Okay...
 
Kuro Madoushi said:
Freedom of speech? Censorship? While it is true that other countries have fewer restrictions and penalties for violating them, let's be honest THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS FREE SPEECH AND NO CENSORSHIP (does the news not censor people's faces sometimes? Do channels not censor expletives or breasts or other sexual organs sometimes? Can you invoke a right to use free speech to threaten the president? Can you utter racist slurs? Can you verbally threaten a police officer?). However, I guess those points are all OK because you have the freedom to criticize your own government, which makes things all better and is an indication of true free speech?




Sheesh, everyday on GAF there's one of these threads. Lawblob pretty much sums up how I feel about this all.

What the fuck are you getting on about?

1) No one has ever said free speech is limitless, you cant threaten people, not just cops and the president. Freedom pf speech is about protecting freedom of expression. Expressing a desire to harm other people is illegal because it isnt productive. You also cant yell fire in a theatre if there isnt one, free speech does not and has never meant you can say whatever you want.

2) Most of your examples are self censorship. If a TV station doesnt show breasts bc they worry sponsors wouldnt like it, that is an example of free speech, not proof that it doesnt exist.


3)Yes, you can use racial slurs. The KKK exists and is legal (unless they threaten someone).
4) Yes, the ability to criticize your government is a huge deal. Its the freedom of thought and the basis of free society. Imagine if you were thrown in jail for saying we should leave Iraq, or for making fun of Clinton for getting a BJ.

More critically, in this country we control our government. If the american people want to end a war, we elect people with that goal. If we want to go to war, we elect someone with that goal. The American government gets its power from the people. We are the government. If you dont appreciate how great a free society is than I dont know what to say.

It never ceases to amaze me no matter how terrible a country or dictator may be there is some apologist ready to step in and defend them.
 
Kuro Madoushi said:
There's this race to criticize China because the Olympics is putting a microscope on Beijing right now, so it seems like more people can hear about the bitching. All of the bitches about China has come up because of the games from people who know very little about the country's history, people, economy, laws, culture, society (I had a coworker the other day say that the Chinese throw people in jail for spitting on the ground...when I said that they don't, she said 'oh right, so they behead them, right?').

If China beheaded people for spitting, it wouldn't have a population problem.
 
DancingJesus said:
I think a lot of people here are missing the point of the picture. China has put up a facade for the Olympics of what they would like you to think their country is like. They ignore the poverty and hunger and try and shoe human rights movements away. The picture demonstrates that right outside the Olympic area (Which they cleaned up with billions of dollars) there is a poverty sect. Sure you could post a picture of Africa and say "The Real Africa" but that’s not the point, it’s because the Olympics are in China and all eyes are on them.

Yeah, I know when my country hosts the Olympics we like leave our dirty laundry for all the world to see.

This is how every city operates when they host the Olympics. They find cheap property and the gentrify the shit out of it. In a city near where I live they built two sports stadiums, in the past decade, in an industrial zone. Three minutes north of the stadiums there's always a long ass line in front of a soup kitchen. If the bums aren't waiting to eat, they sleep wherever the fuck they want all around the area. Thankfully the city built a new onramp to an interstate, next to the stadium, so people can enjoy watching sports without looking at the poor people.
 
Kipe said:
Yeah, I know when my country hosts the Olympics we like leave our dirty laundry for all the world to see.

This is how every city operates when they host the Olympics. They find cheap property and the gentrify the shit out of it. In a city near where I live they built two sports stadiums, in the past decade, in an industrial zone. Three minutes north of the stadiums there's always a long ass line in front of a soup kitchen. If the bums aren't waiting to eat, they sleep wherever the fuck they want all around the area. Thankfully the city built a new onramp to an interstate, next to the stadium, so people can enjoy watching sports without looking at the poor people.

Trying to bring awareness about these issues is obviously a lost cause. You'd be surprised how many people don't know about these things because all the media presents is the pristine grounds of the Olympic City.

Undubbed said:
Why does 'real' always have to be negative. The well off are just as real as the impoverished.

It is real as opposed to the false semblance they are putting on for the Olympics.

Smiles and Cries said:
I am old enough to remember when bashing Japan was the thing to do in the US. I guess times have change now let's bash on China... we all need a blacksheep for our greed and guilt

Why are you defending a dictatorship. There are problems; we are allowed to talk about them.
 
Undubbed said:
Why does 'real' always have to be negative. The well off are just as real as the impoverished.
I should start a thread with a photo of the many homeless people on the streets of Washington DC and title it "The Real United States of America"

this the real China thing is bullshit since we are the ones feeding the monsters that create the ugliness we blame the chinese for.

I am old enough to remember when bashing Japan was the thing to do in the US. I guess times have change now let's bash on China... we all need a blacksheep for our greed and guilt
 
Raiden said:
Well you seem to know what you're talking about asshat.


Well, I don't try to derail a thread with writing stuff like you.

"Boo boo boo, the other countries are doing it, too."

This is a thread about China, not about North Korea. NK is not trying to become a world leader politically and economically...
 
DancingJesus said:
Trying to bring awareness about these issues is obviously a lost cause. You'd be surprised how many people don't know about these things because all the media presents is the pristine grounds of the Olympic City.

Its not like the Chinese government denied that they were doing these things in order to make their city look better for the Olympics.

DancingJesus said:
Why are you defending a dictatorship. There are problems; we are allowed to talk about them.

I don't think anyone disagrees that China has problems. Like people have said, extreme nationalism, migrant workers, rural and urban gap, pollution, etc. are all huge problems. However, some posters here seem to think that China is an extremely oppressive shit hole, and that is what I have a problem with because with all of China's problems I don't think it is nearly as bad as some posters have said.
 
Blackace said:
But yet I have failed in a way that you never explained again, so thanks for you time..
Huh, what do you expect me to explain? I simply pointed out your points of view of :
1. cost of living
2. slave labor
are basically pulled out of your (or your friends') ass because I'm fucking living here and dealing with these stuff daily (not really for no.2 though) and tell you what, life ain't that hard here.

Blackace said:
Then how can you even state that someone is trying to compare or live a western style life? Or even know what one is.. the stereotyping works both ways. Also I fully think that China could become even more stable like some of its Asian counterparts and its some of its western counterparts if it would a) spend more on infrastructure b) stop selling its people to slimeball companies for slave wages/labor. c) hammer out the human rights issues
Here we go again. Tell me how the fuck can a government sell its people to foreign companies? By forcing them with guns? Am I doing it right to suit your human rights agenda?

Blackace said:
Hopefully you'll won't be so touchy in the future about how people view your country. Sometimes it does bother me when Japanese ask if all blacks are in gangs (white people from America have asked this question too), if everyone in the states has a gun and so on.. but there is a reason why other countries and people visiting, living, or studying about a certain country view it that way...
Heh, like I could give a damn about some random dude mud sliding about a country he has never stepped into on a gaming forum. I just don't understand why a mod, who is supposed to keep the forum in order, always tries his best spreading fuds on something he never really understands. I'm pretty sure if somebody does the same kind of shit in console war he will be banned right away, but ... hey it's China !! Let's bash the fuck out of it without knowing a shit !
 
_Xenon_ said:
Huh, what do you expect me to explain? I simply pointed out your points of view of :
1. cost of living
2. slave labor
are basically pulled out of your (or your friends') ass because I'm fucking living here and dealing with these stuff daily (not really for no.2 though) and tell you what, life ain't that hard here.


Here we go again. Tell me how the fuck can a government sell its people to foreign companies? By forcing them with guns? Am I doing it right to suit your human rights agenda?


Heh, like I could give a damn about some random dude mud sliding about a country he has never stepped into on a gaming forum. I just don't understand why a mod, who is supposed to keep the forum in order, always tries his best spreading fuds on something he never really understands. I'm pretty sure if somebody does the same kind of shit in console war he will be banned right away, but ... hey it's China !! Let's bash the fuck out of it without knowing a shit !

again. I have been there. Just never lived there.

and I will explain how a government can sell its people to foreign companies, by not creating any laws to protect its people and by not striving to create jobs on there own. So with no jobs they pretty much have no choice to but to work in sweat shops.

And it is slave wages no matter how you spin it.

Also, I am not bashing China the people, but I am very critical of the government. There is a huge difference. I don't ban people when they say Bush is messing crap up. Or Kerry is waffler. I am human too, and have opinions and am allowed to state.

I have never attacked you or your "credibility" but you have done nothing but attack mine.

I guess the right question to ask is any of your family working in the great work environments created by the wonderful job opportunities that your government has worked so hard to forge with foreign compnaies?
 
Blackace said:
again. I have been there. Just never lived there.

and I will explain how a government can sell its people to foreign companies, by not creating any laws to protect its people and by not striving to create jobs on there own. So with no jobs they pretty much have no choice to but to work in sweat shops.

And it is slave wages no matter how you spin it.

Also, I am not bashing China the people, but I am very critical of the government. There is a huge difference. I don't ban people when they say Bush is messing crap up. Or Kerry is waffler. I am human too, and have opinions and am allowed to state.

I have never attacked you or your "credibility" but you have done nothing but attack mine.
Now you act like you know everything again. Then wtf is this?
by not creating any laws to protect its people and by not striving to create jobs on there own. So with no jobs they pretty much have no choice to but to work in sweat shops.
1. No laws to protects its people? Are we talking about NK or China? You can go ask ANYONE who runs a business in China about if there's any kind of labor laws here. I don't even wanna bother to find a English copy of the Chinese labor law for you.
2. No jobs created by the government? China has the biggest cell phone company in the world and probably one of the top 5 oil company. They are all run by foreigners right? And guess which company just bought the IBM PC division years earlier?

I know you are not bashing the people (I can't see any point to do so anyway) and I don't care about your words about the government. But your opinion on the life standard (or whatever) here is way off.
Blackace said:
I guess the right question to ask is any of your family working in the great work environments created by the wonderful job opportunities that your government has worked so hard to forge with foreign compnaies?
Heh, you never believe anything right? My dad used to work for collage and my mom used to work for a hospital. Is it simply enough for you? Or is it still hard enough for you to believe we even need foreigners to run these things?
 
where are the laws to protect the wages of workers in the sweat shops?

But fuck it..we have beat this horse enough..
 
Blackace said:
where are the laws to protect the wages of workers in the sweat shops?

But fuck it..we have beat this horse enough..
Heh, I told you not being able to make as much as you do doesn't mean not being able to live at all.

If you want to talk about sweat shops you are basically asking the wrong forum, and I can tell you we do have a minimum wage system which depends on the district's living standard.
 
that's cool Xenon. I am not bashing the country or the people. I really enjoy the culture and all that. I just feel that they (the government) are in a good position and should be trying to get a better standard of living for their people. Just an opinion on the matter.
 
Blackace said:
that's cool Xenon. I am not bashing the country or the people. I really enjoy the culture and all that. I just feel that they (the government) are in a good position and should be trying to get a better standard of living for their people. Just an opinion on the matter.

Agreed.
 
layzie1989 said:
i seriously expected more photoshops

2nsb3vq.jpg

:lol

Love the robot cheesing for the camera. Sup bitches. :D
 
Blackace said:
that's cool Xenon. I am not bashing the country or the people. I really enjoy the culture and all that. I just feel that they (the government) are in a good position and should be trying to get a better standard of living for their people. Just an opinion on the matter.
It's cool.

We do have a lot of companies in all kinds of industry and I'm pretty sure you can find their products in your country, not as competitive nor famous like nike/samsum/fort/etc though. And most of these companies are only huge inside China. Kind of not surprised many people never heard of them.

And you probably will be shocked to know the flying guy who lit the Olympic flame, used to be a gymnast, actually owns a huge Chinese sportswear company in China (go search li ning on wikipedia). It's not like everybody here has to make shoes for nike only.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Seriously man?

Are you seriously asking this question?

The problem with the picture is, that for the sake of putting on a good face, the Chinese government has a wall set up to hide the impoverished from the view of tourists/press.

Who gives a shit what the kid is doing...


No shit China is trying to make its country look good for the Olympics. Every country in history that has hosted the Olympics has done this.
 
DancingJesus said:
Trying to bring awareness about these issues is obviously a lost cause. You'd be surprised how many people don't know about these things because all the media presents is the pristine grounds of the Olympic City.
bull fucking shit. For the past 50 years America has only shown the dirt poor in china.

In fact, Milton Friedman was one of the first people to point to china and say things are improving and this was in the early 90's.
 
Karakand said:
No, the trouble is shills keep telling us we shouldn't demand progress. The Olympics should be doing better. The Olympics should be investigating the behavior host cities take in order to present a facade to the rest of the world and punishing them for doing disgusting things.

Instead the Olympics is all about cash-money. Not really surprising... I mean one of Franco's lackeys oversaw that transition.

This begs a bigger question: why should the Olympics demand progress? And on whose authority could it even dare to make such demands? The Olympic charter comes nowhere near to demanding the kind of progress the people in this thread are asking. And that's even before acoounting 'cash-money' reality of modern Olympics.

The worst the Olympic committee could be criticized for is choosing a host city that would reflect badly on the movement (affecting the 'cash-money' thing), rather than any dellusions of a human right mission.

Don't like it? Support the Commonwealth games or something. At least they pretend to punish their member states for bad behavior.
 
Instigator said:
This begs a bigger question: why should the Olympics demand progress? And on whose authority could it even dare to make such demands? The Olympic charter comes nowhere near to demanding the kind of progress the people in this thread are asking. And that's even before acoounting 'cash-money' reality of modern Olympics.

The worst the Olympic committee could be criticized for is choosing a host city that would reflect badly on the movement (affecting the 'cash-money' thing), rather than any dellusions of a human right mission.

Don't like it? Support the Commonwealth games or something. At least they pretend to punish their member states for bad behavior.

China promised a bunch of things and they didn't deliver, improving human rights being at the top of the list.
 
I'm probably horribly simplifying the situation, but here's how I see it. China was a country that was stuck in its situation, where a few at the top sat in nice positions while the majority of people suffered. China, like Russia, slowly began to have outside influences seep into it, and when people begin to get a taste of a better life, they want that for themselves. The country has slowly been on the road to becoming something it wasn't, but for a country the size of and in the situation of a place like China, that can be a hard road to walk.

Could the money China spent on the Olympics have made a much more dramatic impact in the here and now by giving that money to the people of the country? Absolutely. But I think the Olympics were far bigger than that, because they are something that can help bring about change for the future, not just the present. China is a country that (I think) desperately wants to be seen with respect on the world stage, and if the Olympics give them a taste of that, I think they'll want more.

It's like, let's say you've got a guy who never gets attention from girls, so he lets himself be out of shape and dresses like a slob and doesn't put forth any effort. If you tell him, "Man, you're a horrible person, why don't you try?", that doesn't always help motivate somebody. However, if he gets a taste of getting attention from a girl, that can be the spark that he needed to really turn his life around.

Will the Olympics do that for China? I dunno, and maybe I'm completely wrong about everything. But I think China is a country that desperately wants to find a new identity for itself, and is tired of being the out of shape slob that it is now, and maybe the Olympics were the wink from a cute girl that it needed to finally decide it is time to change its life around.
 
shidoshi said:
I'm probably horribly simplifying the situation, but here's how I see it. China was a country that was stuck in its situation, where a few at the top sat in nice positions while the majority of people suffered. China, like Russia, slowly began to have outside influences seep into it, and when people begin to get a taste of a better life, they want that for themselves. The country has slowly been on the road to becoming something it wasn't, but for a country the size of and in the situation of a place like China, that can be a hard road to walk.

Could the money China spent on the Olympics have made a much more dramatic impact in the here and now by giving that money to the people of the country? Absolutely. But I think the Olympics were far bigger than that, because they are something that can help bring about change for the future, not just the present. China is a country that (I think) desperately wants to be seen with respect on the world stage, and if the Olympics give them a taste of that, I think they'll want more.

It's like, let's say you've got a guy who never gets attention from girls, so he lets himself be out of shape and dresses like a slob and doesn't put forth any effort. If you tell him, "Man, you're a horrible person, why don't you try?", that doesn't always help motivate somebody. However, if he gets a taste of getting attention from a girl, that can be the spark that he needed to really turn his life around.

Will the Olympics do that for China? I dunno, and maybe I'm completely wrong about everything. But I think China is a country that desperately wants to find a new identity for itself, and is tired of being the out of shape slob that it is now, and maybe the Olympics were the wink from a cute girl that it needed to finally decide it is time to change its life around.
I agree completely.

Current events/issues/differences can and should be pushed aside for the Olympics to be the beacon of hope for world unity once every 2 years.
 
shidoshi said:
I'm probably horribly simplifying the situation, but here's how I see it. China was a country that was stuck in its situation, where a few at the top sat in nice positions while the majority of people suffered. China, like Russia, slowly began to have outside influences seep into it, and when people begin to get a taste of a better life, they want that for themselves. The country has slowly been on the road to becoming something it wasn't, but for a country the size of and in the situation of a place like China, that can be a hard road to walk.

Could the money China spent on the Olympics have made a much more dramatic impact in the here and now by giving that money to the people of the country? Absolutely. But I think the Olympics were far bigger than that, because they are something that can help bring about change for the future, not just the present. China is a country that (I think) desperately wants to be seen with respect on the world stage, and if the Olympics give them a taste of that, I think they'll want more.

It's like, let's say you've got a guy who never gets attention from girls, so he lets himself be out of shape and dresses like a slob and doesn't put forth any effort. If you tell him, "Man, you're a horrible person, why don't you try?", that doesn't always help motivate somebody. However, if he gets a taste of getting attention from a girl, that can be the spark that he needed to really turn his life around.

Will the Olympics do that for China? I dunno, and maybe I'm completely wrong about everything. But I think China is a country that desperately wants to find a new identity for itself, and is tired of being the out of shape slob that it is now, and maybe the Olympics were the wink from a cute girl that it needed to finally decide it is time to change its life around.

You have a surprising and refreshing optimistic view. I hope your right..
 
people dont even know how the "real" china is.. jeezz all because of this one pic they assume. I've lived in china half my life and the "real" china actually depends on where you are from.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
I should start a thread with a photo of the many homeless people on the streets of Washington DC and title it "The Real United States of America"
610x.jpg


Bada-BING

It ain't hard to do. shidoshi knows what the fuck REALly up.
 
I find it funny that Americans are criticizing China for spending 40B on the Olympics when they spent over 1 trillion on an illegal war.
 
China is probably the most complicated country in the world to actually sum up. Certainly one picture can't handle it. It's an ancient place with insanely complicated recent history, and the question of what even "counts" as China is problematic in a dozen ways.

But if you think bulldozing poor neighborhoods without compensation for shiny new facilities that stimulate the national economy on an international scale, maybe you shouldn't drive on the interstate anymore?

China is the only country I've been to where people, on an individual level, are not disgusted by the poor nor blame them for their problems. Their respect for rural peasants is pretty shocking, considering that where I grew up there was no consciousness or gratitude to farmers for anything we ate.

If you're going to slam China for something, you can do better than pick on it for having poor people and/or making macroeconomic decisions that marginalize them. Seriously.

Also, what Mugen said above me. SERIOUSLY.
 
Deku said:
China promised a bunch of things and they didn't deliver, improving human rights being at the top of the list.

I'm sure all the bribes were accounted for.

As for the promises, I'd hazard a guess that this was a simple *wink wink* moment between the IOC and China, very much like the unrestricted Internet access pledge.

All that mattered was that China could build its facilities on time, make the sponsors happy and deliver a good show. Those were the pledges that really mattered to the IOC.
 
Blackace said:
where are the laws to protect the wages of workers in the sweat shops?

But fuck it..we have beat this horse enough..
:lol Armchair humanitarians and political analysts. I think you should probably be less concerned about Chinese sweatshops than its implications for the American workforce. If there's Chinese people willing to work 100+ hours a week for slave wages, what direction do you think wages are going in this country where people want to work less than 40 and get more benefits?
---
China was a country that was stuck in its situation, where a few at the top sat in nice positions while the majority of people suffered.
I think you are describing China...in the 20s. China has such a large population that it takes on the characteristics of several countries at the same time. A middle class that will eventually grow in numbers to surpass the entire U.S. population but 'also' maintaining a lower working-class that will be the size of Europe's population.
 
People going on about the $40 billion to host the Olympics have to understand that the host nation sees it as an investment and that they'll make many times more back in their economy as tourism grows and they attract new business. This is suppose to be China's big coming out part on the International stage. Countries don't just host the games out of the goodness of their heart. They're hoping to recoup that money in other ways.
 
Stele said:
:lol Armchair humanitarians and political analysts. I think you should probably be less concerned about Chinese sweatshops than its implications for the American workforce. If there's Chinese people willing to work 100+ hours a week for slave wages, what direction do you think wages are going in this country where people want to work less than 40 and get more benefits?
---

Even more reason for concern. But I tend to not think about how something only affects me
 
Instigator said:
Don't like it? Support the Commonwealth games or something. At least they pretend to punish their member states for bad behavior.
"Don't like it? Then you can just geeeeeeeeeeet out!"? Instigator you wily son of a bitch, when did you convert over to being a conservative? I didn't get an announcement about it in the post or anything. That's very inconsiderate on your part! (Guess you're not going to be one of those "compassionate" conservatives then?)
 
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