Starfish Hero
Member
I feel like the controversy and harassment only further proves her point
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The right wing's harassment campaign against a BLM supporter who made a bad cop joke.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Mammoth Jones
Member
Twitter outrage brigade knows no political ideology.
Pretty shitty to celebrate the death of a cop or imply that they deserved it. It's like the fuckwits that kept bringing up the fact that Trayvon Martin smoked weed. Like, wtf?
Pretty shitty to celebrate the death of a cop or imply that they deserved it. It's like the fuckwits that kept bringing up the fact that Trayvon Martin smoked weed. Like, wtf?
Gentleman Jack
Member
She's just a random student who posted a #BLM hashtag after her crummy joke. She's not a spokesperson for anybody or anything. Her Twitter before Brietbart turned the Eye of Sauron on her was likely only ever followed by her friends.
Why is the lesson so many want to take away from this is 'don't post things on Twitter!'
That's the point.
That's definitely the point, she is using the same logic and character assassination the public uses during any of the many killings of unarmed black men. The "they must have done something to deserve it, so it's OK they're dead!" logic. It's supposed to highlight the disgusting-ness of it.
Angelus Errare
Banned
If a tea party member or right wing nut suggested made the same statement but about a black person who was wrongfully killed saying he/she deserved it it would have been favorited thousands of times and retweeted just as many with no mob justice.
Interfectum
Member
Seems like she needs to be educated on Twitter... or perhaps this event educated her. Twitter isn't a private forum. Doesn't matter if you have 10,000 or 0 followers. If you wouldn't say that dumb shit in public, then don't post it on Twitter either.
Remember how there were tons of Tweets about how Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, or any other innocent black person that was murdered "had it coming", were a " thug", "were no saint", " deserved it ", and other things of that nature? Why do all those people get away with that yet this blows up that way?
I don't think "joke" is really the right word to use for the Tweet, maybe "statement" would be better. She is drawing a comparison to show people "See how ridiculous it is when the shoe is on the other foot?"
Mammoth Jones
Member
Oh of course. I totally understand that. But I'm not shocked the "other side" goes outrage mode.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
"Joke" was just the shortest statement to describe the tweet since I was running out of space in the thread title.
Serious question, do you both know what satire is?
Oh, I see. Yeah, that's different. If I posted something dumb like that, the possible negative reaction I'd anticipate would be more like some friends thinking I'm an asshole. And they could maybe talk to me about it and I could maybe explain in more detail, and possibly I'd think it was worth the risk to make a point.
As far as "visible to the entire world for all eternity," well that's the problem, isn't it. I know this post I'm making right now will technically be visible to the entire world, but I still don't expect that anyone but you and a few people following this thread will read it. The internet in general--and social media in particular--is full of such a vast quantity of noise that we generally don't expect our personal item of noise to go beyond a few people who are directly listening to us.
And then we say something awkward right when the noise dies down and everyone can hear us.
To my knowledge, the worst that's happened violence-wise is swatting. It's still probably terrifying to have someone call your private phone and tell you where you live and that they're on their way to murder you.
Mammoth Jones
Member
You act as if this is the first time people get outraged over satire. Stop it.
excelsiorlef
Member
Ding ding ding we have a winner. There was zero wrong with what she said or how she said it.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm sorry that she got death threats and harassment. That sad, that was a really dumb thing to say even as a joke/political commentary. Posting on Twitter is the digital equivalent of going out on a street corner with a megaphone. Even if you only have 20 followers anyone can see what you're saying.
excelsiorlef
Member
Dude your first post claimed she was actually celebrating a cop's death.
You completely misread her comment and then made the exact point she was making with it.
SO yeah the satire flew over your head
Vincent Grayson
Member
Not until/unless laws regarding harassment online exist/change.
This reminds me of that lady and her friend who took a picture at Arlington (?) disobeying a sign and it blew up as some big respecting the troops thing. I think that pic was on Facebook so limited audience.
In both cases the originator did a thing that sort of sucked I guess but didn't matter because it went to an audience of like a couple dozen. Then some instigator steps in and blasts it out to some massive audience. If the instigator really cares about offense or respect or propriety or whatever, they wouldn't blast it out. They're the reason people saw the "ugly" thing. The mob's ire should accrue to the instigator, for its their fault entirely that the mob members were exposed to the distasteful "content".
Meanwhile, if the some total of someone's "hateful" output fits into 140 characters "broad"cast to a couple dozen people, then it's just embarrassing to get riled up about it. You don't have anything more important to spend your time caring about?
In both cases the originator did a thing that sort of sucked I guess but didn't matter because it went to an audience of like a couple dozen. Then some instigator steps in and blasts it out to some massive audience. If the instigator really cares about offense or respect or propriety or whatever, they wouldn't blast it out. They're the reason people saw the "ugly" thing. The mob's ire should accrue to the instigator, for its their fault entirely that the mob members were exposed to the distasteful "content".
Meanwhile, if the some total of someone's "hateful" output fits into 140 characters "broad"cast to a couple dozen people, then it's just embarrassing to get riled up about it. You don't have anything more important to spend your time caring about?
Hellwarden
Member
In my opinion, without some laws being changed, no.
The whole idea that people are supposed to talk online to people who send death/rape threats to calm them down is absurd.
No, but that doesn't mean it's OK to act like this. Doesn't matter if it's the first time or #35.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
I don't know whether to feel sorry for you or be proud of myself that I've managed to have such an effect on you that you feel the need to bring up a post from around a month ago.
I'll choose the former, pity is merited.
Not totally, although I will admit I can be lazy at times when posting as I really don't care enough about certain subjects to be locked into a 3 day debate with someone when we will never see eye to eye due to their sheer hypocrisy or bending of facts to suit their agenda.
BLM at its root cause, imo was/is fantastic. The cause was/is great. However when people use that to push their own violent/racist agendas then that's where I have issue.
As for me saying this is her fault, well, is it her Twitter account? Yes. Did she make the tweet? Yes. Therefore she is indeed accountable.
Jokes are great things, and I'm sure that's what she intended it to be, but let's not be hypocritical here. If a white person on Twitter made jokes about a black person being shot and killed there would be the same, albeit possibly different people involved, Internet witch hunt going on, pitchforks and all. It doesn't make it right though.
So TLDR, it was a poor joke which backfired where both parties are wrong, however people should really know better re Twitter.
When you try for clever satire, the failure mode is looking like an asshole. At best she teeters on the edge of that here. It's not clear at first glance that she's going for satire rather than just being a cruel person. The point is a solid one, but the execution is low effort and not very successful.
Note that this probably wasn't a problem for her ten followers or whatever, who know her personally and would know that she didn't mean this the way it sounds.
One good way would be if people with large internet megaphones didn't directly and intentionally fire up internet mobs with the intent of ruining people's lives:
evilromero
Member
Would you maybe even say a "dehumanizing" stare?
excelsiorlef
Member
When you try for clever satire, the failure mode is looking like an asshole. At best she teeters on the edge of that here. It's not clear at first glance that she's going for satire rather than just being a cruel person. The point is a solid one, but the execution is low effort and not very successful.
Note that this probably wasn't a problem for her ten followers or whatever, who know her personally and would know that she didn't mean this the way it sounds.
One good way would be if people with large internet megaphones didn't directly and intentionally fire up internet mobs with the intent of ruining people's lives:
Again disagree it was super obvious what she was doing. Like reading that never do I think she actually was celebrating his death. It was blatantly clear that she was applying the he's no angel standard to the cop to point out the vast difference between reactions for a dead cop and a dead unarmed black person.
Pervy eyes = grasping at some sort of ridiculous reasons to say it was his fault, which is exactly what happens like every single time some innocent black person is murdered by the police.
Also big difference cop killers go to jail, murderous cops get a paid vacation and sometimes a promotion.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Who the hell is being hypocritical here? And don't you think there's a new wrinkle here than in previous cases where we have documented evidence that a Brietbart blogger intentionally made the woman a target? Is that her fault, too? The death threats? The calls to her mother's house, the dean of her school and more?
The 'both sides are wrong' glossing is pure false equivalence bullshit. One side here is clearly way, way, way, way more fucking wrong than the other
Everything to do with the right wing. It's Breitbard - pieces of shit are gonna do what comes naturally.
"don't judge me based on what I said!" come on son, you got got.
Interfectum
Member
The key point here is she should emailed or texted this to her friends. When you post something on Twitter you are talking to everyone.
My general rule of thumb is before you tweet your "funny quip" think about going to a public place and saying your tweet over a megaphone. If you predict a bad reaction in that circumstance then don't Tweet it. Just be smart.
excelsiorlef
Member
There's zero wrong with what she said though.
It's actually rather poignant.
And even the reaction is poignant. Even joking about what a cop might have done to warrant getting killed is seen as worse as honestly arguing that unarmed black people are responsible for their own murders by cops because of *insert some sort of grasping at straws transgression here* which usually just ends up with a lot of people nodding and saying well he was no angel.
Evidently not.
This is a problem that is only going to get exponentially worse over time, as plenty of kids in their pre-teen or young teen years reach adulthood and haven't wiped clean their social media pages of some terribly stupid, violent, obnoxious, harrassing, insensitive, racist, sexist, and otherwise bigoted shit.
The Facebook feeds of some kids at my wife's old school were shocking, less for the content and much more that they were putting said content online, attached to their name, for the world to see at any point before it's removed (if it can be scrubbed clean entirely). There isn't an appreciation of what public truly means.
excelsiorlef
Member
It was, I'm pretty sure even Breitbart knows it was a joke but are purposefully acting like it isn't because it suits their goals.
excelsiorlef
Member
Correct.
Delusibeta
Banned
I think that's fundamentally the point. Justine's harassment was started by Gawker, and zero people batted an eye (at the time) because the harassers were predominantly left-wing. Ditto Troy and Walter's harassment, come to think of it.
Meanwhile, we already have articles (such as in the OP) condeming this bout of internet harassment because the harassers are predominantly right-wing. It smells of hypocrisy.
Of course, all have the common cause of Twitter's ability to message practically the entire userbase whatever you want, which enables the harassment in the first place. In short, fuck Twitter.
Acerac
Banned
What the fuck is this trash?
Messofanego
Banned
Why are people even bothering with adding a qualifier that what she said was dumb? Not every person on Twitter can be on the level of Onion, but how does this Internet mob against her be justified? Same sentiment of victim blaming happened to the woman who was on the plane and made a comment about Africa and HIV. She should have seen it coming. Shouldn't have said it, now see what happened. Learn to make better jokes. Git gud at satire.
Death threats and doxxing and threatening phone calls are on zero tolerance levels of unjustifiable. If some right winger or Donald Trump got them, it would still be awful.
If some MSNBC or liberal website sicced their harassment campaign on some bad tweet, the blame would still fall on them for resorting to death threats, doxxing, and sending threatening phone calls.
Death threats and doxxing and threatening phone calls are on zero tolerance levels of unjustifiable. If some right winger or Donald Trump got them, it would still be awful.
Doesn't the blame of this harassment campaign from 40000 comments towards her, fall in the hands of Breitbart?
If some MSNBC or liberal website sicced their harassment campaign on some bad tweet, the blame would still fall on them for resorting to death threats, doxxing, and sending threatening phone calls.
Byakuya769
Member
Nope, but he was probably quite capable of writing a bitter message to Foy, I bet.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
People keep jumping on him, but really if that's how it was understood, what makes it any different than being a real insult?
I've heard plenty of times that, "It doesn't matter how you use the word, it matters how it makes someone feel". For instance the word "Thug". Even using it to describe a hardened, in jail 30 times, criminal. If they're black, describing them with that word is still racially charged. Even if that's not the intent.
Just as this comment may have been sarcasm, people may actually be mistaking this as a cold hearted, calloused, jab at the death of a cop. Which makes some people upset.
Now I'm not saying that every single person using this "opportunity" to attack this girl thinks this. I'm just presenting it from another viewpoint.
pants
Member
Laws wont do shit, an internet mob is a countryless, faceless blob
The intent of satire here was very clear. "Creepy perv eyes". Come on. The only way that you don't read this as satire is if you know nothing about the issue of victims of police violence being blamed for their own deaths and having their lives combed through looking for the slightest mistakes they've made. And if someone doesn't know anything about that, then hopefully this is an opportunity for them to be educated.
The actual intent of her comment is that the cop didn't do anything to deserve it, just like many victims of police violence didn't do anything to deserve their deaths.
The actual intent of her comment is that the cop didn't do anything to deserve it, just like many victims of police violence didn't do anything to deserve their deaths.
More than zero people batted an eye.
Angelus Errare
Banned
They're a hate group man, just destroying racial relations in America. God what the hell is it with you people!?!
freeofgreed
Member
It was clearly satire and a very poignant message, surprised it went over so many peoples heads even on here. Was it in poor taste? Yes, but it was good message.
If you repeat hat speech word for word it at a the GOP convention, they would clap their hands bloody.
And the "What the hell is wrong with you "look on Olivia's face is gold.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Pretty sad my dude didn't get an award for that monologue, or at least a career out of it. Part of me watched that thinking "I wonder if this is just script for him or is this real talk..."
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