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The rise of Trump has led to an unexpected twist in Germany: A resurgent left

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Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I honestly didn't want to make another thread remotely connected to Trump, but I thought this was interesting seeing all the talk about Wilders and Le Pen.

WaPo article.

BERLIN — The unconventional administration of President Trump may be causing consternation among American liberals. But here in Germany, the anchor of the European Union, Trump’s rise is helping fuel an unexpected surge of the left.

What is happening in Germany is the kind of Trump bump perhaps never foreseen by his supporters — a boost not for the German nationalists viewed as Trump’s natural allies but for his fiercest critics in the center left. The Social Democrats (SPD) have bounced back under the charismatic Martin Schulz, the former head of the European Parliament who took over as party chairman last month and is now staging a surprisingly strong bid to unseat Chancellor Angela Merkel.

In a country that stands as a painful example of the disastrous effects of radical nationalism, Schulz is building a campaign in part around bold attacks on Trump. He has stopped well short of direct comparisons to Adolf Hitler, but Schulz recently mentioned Trump in the same speech in which he heralded his party’s resistance to the Nazis in the lead-up to World War II.

...


At the same time, left-wing parties in Germany have seen a jump in dues-paying members. There are also signs that Trump’s election is making left-leaning voters in Germany more politically active.

Take, for instance, Kristina Seidler, a 28-year-old mother and Düsseldorf resident who works as a substantiality adviser for a textile company. She has voted for the SPD before. But the day after Trump’s victory, she signed up as a dues-paying member and party volunteer.

Horrified by Trump’s win, she said she sees the traditional left as the only answer and is preparing to put up posters and help with campaigning as the German election season rolls into high gear.

“What kind of sign is it for the world when a man who is a racist, who treats women so badly, can become the president of the United States?” Seidler said. “I thought, ‘It’s time for me to do something.’ ”

Perhaps the biggest single driver of the SPD’s new popularity, however, is Schulz.

...

He rose through the ranks as a champion of European unity, civil rights and social justice, becoming the parliament’s president in 2012. He has at times been chided for his tell-it-like-it-is approach, drawing the wrath of the Hungarian and Polish governments after decrying democratic lapses in those countries.

Critics call Schulz similar to Trump in at least one regard: He is a straight talker who argues against elites and favors the common man. He is also blunt — a trait that contrasts with Merkel, a leader famous for her meandering, parsed answers.

So, uh, Macron Hamon-Schulz 2017?

Hohe Energie.
 

Guy.brush

Member
C3lGsbVXUAA75U7.jpg


It says
Obama 2009, Trump 2017 and Schulz 2017 - buying some bread at the bakery.
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Fascinating how people like Wilders, Farage, and Trump co-opted the tragedies and fears in France and Germany the past few years to get into power. Meanwhile, both of these countries are very likely to go the opposite direction.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
That is such an English press view on it, it's kind of funny. Sure, Trump is part of it, but it's only one part.

MEGA
 

Fliesen

Member
I can totally see Trump's election across the Atlantic to boost pro-European, but also more left leaning candidate's results.

With America being somewhat out of control, geopolitically, many see this as a great chance for a united, strong Europe to become a more meaningful political power.
The German elections don't worry me all that much, because - no matter the possible gains of the AFD party, the most prospective candidates are very pro-european. (as opposed to the French and the Dutch election). If the worst that can happen is another four years of Merkel ... some countries would love to be in that situation :p
 

Usobuko

Banned
Trump wants to break up EU so America has much more leverage in everything.

This should be enough to push people to be against his agenda.
 

Sölf

Member
I like that these things are having the opposite effect of what many feared or some have hoped for. But I also think, Trump just being an idiot helped. I mean, we can more or less see in real time what happens to a country when "the worst" comes true. Both with Brexit and now with Trump. So unity being the answer is actually good.
 

SilentRob

Member
For anyone not aware who Martin Schulz is and why people like him.

Because of stuff like this (throwing a greek Nazi out of EU parliament) orthis (calmly arguing what Palestinians and Israelis have to do for peace, angering Israeli Nationalists). There are many more examples of him taking on people like Nigel Farage, but sadly, it's kinda hard to find subtitled footage.

This thread is a sobering reminder that I don't know shit about European politics since I thought Merkel was left.

She's center-right, but in comparison to American politics where Democrats are supposed to be the "left" party the german center-right would probably be called communists in the US.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Trump wants to break up EU so America has much more leverage in everything.

This should be enough to push people to be against his agenda.

It is not just Trump though. Putin also wants to play some age old "divide and conquer" and weaken the EU.
People voting for these extreme right wing parties partially financed and egged on by Putin are doing the opposite of what they think they will get. They will not get back to a stronger mythical nation state, they will get a weaker vasal state with cronism and corruption running rampant.
 

oti

Banned
Many Germans I've spoken too are interested in a change. Not because they don't respect Merkel or don't believe she's a great Chancellor, but they believe Shulz is the better man for today's problems.

I bet this sounds utterly crazy to Americans with their two parties.
 

mp1990

Banned
the far left in the US is basically not openly wanting the poor to starve

For anyone not aware who Martin Schulz is and why people like him.

Because of stuff like this (throwing a greek Nazi out of EU parliament) orthis (calmly arguing what Palestinians and Israelis have to do for peace, angering Israeli Nationalists). There are many more examples of him taking on people like Nigel Farage, but sadly, it's kinda hard to find subtitled footage.
this is really good lol
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
For anyone not aware who Martin Schulz is and why people like him.

Because of stuff like this (throwing a greek Nazi out of EU parliament) orthis (calmly arguing what Palestinians and Israelis have to do for peace, angering Israeli Nationalists). There are many more examples of him taking on people like Nigel Farage, but sadly, it's kinda hard to find subtitled footage.



She's center-right, but in comparison to American politics where Democrats are supposed to be the "left" party the german center-right would probably be called communists in the US.

He's a hero.
Looks like zealots and racists animals hate him. Good, good.
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Probably says a lot about the German education system post WW2 that the masses actively reject far right ideas when they surface rather than allow them to fester like has happened in the rest of Europe and America.
 
Many Germans I've spoken too are interested in a change. Not because they don't respect Merkel or don't believe she's a great Chancellor, but they believe Shulz is the better man for today's problems.

I bet this sounds utterly crazy to Americans with their two parties.

Despite our system being setup to only realistically allow two parties I can assure you we're capable of comprehending more than two.
 
I have been hearing this quite a bit recently of the left being protectors of liberal ideas and the right synonymous with fascism. Reminds me of the left being synonymous with communism and the right protectors of wholesome family values in decades past. Overly simplified nonsense. I kind of expect it from supporters of fascist ideas as it is the standard us vs them mentality it thrives on but it is seemingly widespread from all sides. I have read/heard this quite a lot recently; "I use to be a supporter of the liberal left", what party were they as in western society most left parties are built on conservative traditions and most liberal parties are centre right. The whole political situation especially from voters looks utterly moronic.
 
Why would this be unexpected? This is the most normal thing in politics. Useful vote. Counter-policies. Balance. It didnt happened sooner in Europe cause of the refugee situation or else the pes parties would have gained traction much sooner. Still, Greece and Portugal, two of the most oppressed countries have quickly abandoned their right-wing parties.

That the USA has a bizarre two party system without a left ends up making it a very particular case where there's no chance for vote-spilling.

As for Shcultz I hope he wins. Merkel has been destroying Europe for an entire decade with her fascist Schäuble standing next to her. At least Trump is a dumbfuck.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Re: Merkel. I'd argue she's hardly a "communist" even by American standards. She's a stern looking yet very inoffensive center to the right politician who prefers consensus over direct action. Her biggest value is that she's incredibly stable, a true stoic politician. She's pretty much in the same wavelength as Obama (although seeing that he was treated like a Maoist demon by the GOP, well), minus the outrageously negative press.

Probably says a lot about the German education system post WW2 that the masses actively reject far right ideas when they surface rather than allow them to fester like has happened in the rest of Europe and America.

You know shit is fucked up when Germany is bringing WW2 to admonish you.
 

Zaru

Member
They will not get back to a stronger mythical nation state, they will get a weaker vasal state with cronism and corruption running rampant.

More people need to understand that anti-EU far right parties are, in several ways, a bigger threat to their countries than any refugees/immigrants.
 

Morat

Banned
I have been hearing this quite a bit recently of the left being protectors of liberal ideas and the right synonymous with fascism. Reminds me of the left being synonymous with communism and the right protectors of wholesome family values in decades past. Overly simplified nonsense. I kind of expect it from supporters of fascist ideas as it is the standard us vs them mentality it thrives on but it is seemingly widespread from all sides. I have read/heard this quite a lot recently; "I use to be a supporter of the liberal left", what party were they as in western society most left parties are built on conservative traditions and most liberal parties are centre right. The whole political situation especially from voters looks utterly moronic.

Rarely has an avatar been more appropriate than yours.
 

SilentRob

Member
I have been hearing this quite a bit recently of the left being protectors of liberal ideas and the right synonymous with fascism. Reminds me of the left being synonymous with communism and the right protectors of wholesome family values in decades past. Overly simplified nonsense. I kind of expect it from supporters of fascist ideas as it is the standard us vs them mentality it thrives on but it is seemingly widespread from all sides. I have read/heard this quite a lot recently; "I use to be a supporter of the liberal left", what party were they as in western society most left parties are built on conservative traditions and most liberal parties are centre right. The whole political situation especially from voters looks utterly moronic.

What are you talking about, no one sensible is doing that in germany. Nobody calls right-leaning CDU/CSU "synonymous with fascists". The Center-left isn't winning ground because everyone suddenly started despising and hating Merkel and her party, but because some see it as a valid alternative with Martin Schulz at the helm. This is a very american problem since over there they entrenched themselves with two parties, one having to stand for the "left", the other for the "right", with no middleground or chance to compromise in between.
 

wrowa

Member
I don't think Trump has all that much to with it, honestly. Due to - among other things - an unpopular leadership SPD (Schulz's party) reached historical lows in the past years and for a lot of people Schulz taking over represents hope for somewhat of a new beginning for the SPD. He's attracting lapsed SPD voters while also being attractive to people who just don't like Merkel.

Schulz is also in the unique position that he's both a very experienced politician, but at the same time a new face in German politics. A lot of people (worldwide) yearn for a breath of fresh air and Schulz is able provide that image to the public while still being qualified for the job. It's kind of a fascinating combination, really.
 

Fritz

Member
I love that the media over here got the message and are polarising so much between Merkel and Schulz. I just saw Spiegel's cover I believe "the battle for Germany". It gives the people that have been venturing to the far right/left the feeling that they have a choice and that it counts and that they don't have to go for the extremists for change.

Schulz us a strong candidate. The strongest Center left candidate in decades. I don't like that he seems super jovial and loud mouthed. In that sense he is a bit like Trump, referencing the comparison made in op's article.

That said I get the impression Schulz isnt really understood by the European left and especially by the south. He is a conservative socialists imho. Probably less progressive than Merkel. And I believe he was 100% on her side regarding austerity.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
I have been hearing this quite a bit recently of the left being protectors of liberal ideas and the right synonymous with fascism. Reminds me of the left being synonymous with communism and the right protectors of wholesome family values in decades past. Overly simplified nonsense. I kind of expect it from supporters of fascist ideas as it is the standard us vs them mentality it thrives on but it is seemingly widespread from all sides. I have read/heard this quite a lot recently; "I use to be a supporter of the liberal left", what party were they as in western society most left parties are built on conservative traditions and most liberal parties are centre right. The whole political situation especially from voters looks utterly moronic.
I have no idea what you are trying to say, the article doesn't mention fascists either.
What's going on in Europe right now is basically a vote between nationalism/isolation/anti-EU/anti-€ and federalism/cooperation/solidarity/pro-EU. It's not some "right-wing equals fascism" theory. We know what will happen if Europe moves to the right, because it is happening right now in certain countries. It's not fearmongering, it's observation.

That said I get the impression Schulz isnt really understood by the European left and especially by the south. He is a conservative socialists imho. Probably less progressive than Merkel. And I believe he was 100% on her side regarding austerity.
Yeah, he's not some miracle for the South. At best he will pay more attention to a certain level of European harmony than Merkel.
 
Trump fucking up is good for everyone, I'm especially glad as the CPC Trump wannabes will think twice about the consequences of such extremist views
 
Fascinating how people like Wilders, Farage, and Trump co-opted the tragedies and fears in France and Germany the past few years to get into power. Meanwhile, both of these countries are very likely to go the opposite direction.

France? huh? Even if Macron wins, that's a shift further right from the socialist party. did I miss something?
 

Violet_0

Banned
it's a weird mix of the SPD finally getting a popular candidate that has a realistic chance of dethroning Merkel, and internet meme magic

no breaks
 
For anyone not aware who Martin Schulz is and why people like him.

Because of stuff like this (throwing a greek Nazi out of EU parliament) orthis (calmly arguing what Palestinians and Israelis have to do for peace, angering Israeli Nationalists). There are many more examples of him taking on people like Nigel Farage, but sadly, it's kinda hard to find subtitled footage.



She's center-right, but in comparison to American politics where Democrats are supposed to be the "left" party the german center-right would probably be called communists in the US.

Even for German conservative standards Merkel is sort of "left". There are lots of topics in Germany she handled that were once the main things of the social democrat or green party.
 

Harmen

Member
Good, I hope my country (The Netherlands) does the same. I do believe Brexit and Trump at least swayed some people to the (mid) left over here.


Edit: With swayed to the left I mean less right.
 

Arkanius

Member
Portugal right now has a Socialist (Center-left) party in power that has parliamentary support from the Communist Party and Left

Germany doing a center left turn as well now

France seems to go back to the right though. How are the chances of Le Pen winning lately?

Europe as a whole, despite the re-resurgence of the extreme right, seems to be leaning left to counter that effect
 

MUnited83

For you.
This thread is a sobering reminder that I don't know shit about European politics since I thought Merkel was left.
Oh yeah. Two party system has really screwed up American perspective of what is left and right. Where I live if Hillary ran she would be considered borderline right wing andBernie would be a centrist that leans a little bit left lol.
 
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