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[Volimar]

Yes, Trump has brought the white supremacist movement into the spotlight and accelerated things like the Confederate Statue removal

But nobody thought Hillary was a white savior. And, sorry to inform you, Bernie wouldn't be one either. The systematic racism in this country is too ingrained for any president to actual counter.

And having a KKK in chief that brings that to the forefront isn't worth all the other damage he's causing, that Hillary wouldn't have done, that will harm us for a generation or longer.

Yep.

To be fair, too many democrats expect POC to be happy with the rising tide raising all boats shtick, but the economic problems that POC face aren't all economic based.

 

[LosDaddie]

Even the worst day of an Abuela presidency would still be better than the best day of a DJT presidency.

It's a shame she ran a horrible campaign. All she needed to do was match Obama's 2012 performance, not try to make history flipping states like AZ.

 

[Ponn]

I think you should read the article if you haven't already

It's an issue thats pointing more towards the primaries and not the general election. And if anyone was around GAF during the last primaries then you know how that discussion turned out.

I've said it before in other threads and I still feel the same. The DNC and centrists need to stop worrying about appealing to moderates, the most flaky ass group. They need to spend more time, effort and money on their current more reliable base who has a hard time coming together and in many districts are being kept from voting. They need to get into black communities more instead of distancing themselves from "identity politics". Getting the youth and disenfranchised invigorated into politics and voting for their rights. Shaping leaders for the future of the Dem party. This is what the GOP and all these nazis and alt-righters are scared shitless of happening.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Nobody was thinking Hillary was going to be a white savior, but she would have been a decent President and LIGHT YEARS better than this shitshow. The GOP's incompetence is the only thing saving us now.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I mean, Hillary got up in a debate and said institutional racism is real, all of us play a part, and we need to examine that in ourselves.

I feel like sweeping that under the rug is a little unfair.

That's the funny thing. She was one of the few mainstream politicians willing to openly state that. And she had the guts to call a good chunk of the Trump base pieces of shit. Which as we are seeing even more now, she was 100% right on. Except maybe she should have said more and also not apologized.

 

[jWILL253]

Why the fuck this dude think that WE think she's the White savior? I wasn't asking her to be that, and neither was anyone else.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

There are no saviors. You would have to wipe the system clean and start over for that to even be a possibility. (but then certain folks are still gonna vote how they're gonna vote, so yeah...)

 

[cdyhybrid]

It's an issue thats pointing more towards the primaries and not the general election. And if anyone was around GAF during the last primaries then you know how that discussion turned out.

I've said it before in other threads and I still feel the same. The DNC and centrists need to stop worrying about appealing to moderates, the most flaky ass group. They need to spend more time, effort and money on their current more reliable base who has a hard time coming together and in many districts are being kept from voting. They need to get into black communities more instead of distancing themselves from "identity politics". Getting the youth and disenfranchised invigorated into politics and voting for their rights. Shaping leaders for the future of the Dem party. This is what the GOP and all these nazis and alt-righters are scared shitless of happening.

Yep. They need to rally the base and then go after non-voters.

 

[Apharmd]

I've been thinking about this briefly. What happens after Trump gets ousted? The structured, institutionalized racism is still going to persist at all levels of American society. This isn't something electing the correct president will fix. It feels to me that an upheaval is needed to awaken white people so that they are forced to stare into and acknowledge the lingering presence of white supremacy baked into our culture, our norms and our subconsciousness as Americans.

For some this is what Trump's election exactly was.

 

[Joni]

She wouldn't even need to do something to combat them, her being elected would have kept them down. They came out of the woodworks because Trump won. They came out because they saw someone rewarded for their ideas.
Her losing was the average American saying they didn't care about the language Trump and his followers used. That is how that right wing nationalism got so famous again, people looked at it and thought they shouldn't do anything.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Ah, the old 'perfect is the enemy of good' take. White supremacists marching on the streets with torches because they're emboldened by Trump isn't enough.

 

[cdyhybrid]

For some this is what Trump's election exactly was.

Let's see if they still feel that way in four years.

It's easy to get out and get active when there are literal Nazis marching in the streets.

 

[lightskintwin]

It's an issue thats pointing more towards the primaries and not the general election. And if anyone was around GAF during the last primaries then you know how that discussion turned out.

I've said it before in other threads and I still feel the same. The DNC and centrists need to stop worrying about appealing to moderates, the most flaky ass group. They need to spend more time, effort and money on their current more reliable base who has a hard time coming together and in many districts are being kept from voting. They need to get into black communities more instead of distancing themselves from "identity politics". Getting the youth and disenfranchised invigorated into politics and voting for their rights. Shaping leaders for the future of the Dem party. This is what the GOP and all these nazis and alt-righters are scared shitless of happening.

To add to this, the sentiment that the Democrats have taken for granted the Black vote has been there for awhile in a lot of Black communities.

 

[El_Tiguere]

I've said it before in other threads and I still feel the same. The DNC and centrists need to stop worrying about appealing to moderates, the most flaky ass group. They need to spend more time, effort and money on their current more reliable base who has a hard time coming together and in many districts are being kept from voting. They need to get into black communities more instead of distancing themselves from "identity politics". Getting the youth and disenfranchised invigorated into politics and voting for their rights. Shaping leaders for the future of the Dem party. This is what the GOP and all these nazis and alt-righters are scared shitless of happening.

This is what Bernie Sanders and progressives are all about, hence they are the future of the party. The youth black vote and independents were behind him. Imperial Democrats who have been complicit in everything that has happened since the 1980s share a lot of the blame.

 

[Apharmd]

Let's see if they still feel that way in four years.

It's easy to get out and get active when there are literal Nazis marching in the streets.

You're right. Overt displays of racism got the most reactions from what I see. But unfortunately some people I see on my FB raging against Nazis have also posted against Ferguson protesters rioting using misinterpreted MLK nonviolence quotes.

Then they also shat on Kaepernick for kneeling.

 

[zelas]

She would've done something. Something is better than accelerating in the opposite direction.

Something isnt PERFECTION so it might as well be nothing.

 

[Infinite]

It's an issue thats pointing more towards the primaries and not the general election. And if anyone was around GAF during the last primaries then you know how that discussion turned out.

I've said it before in other threads and I still feel the same. The DNC and centrists need to stop worrying about appealing to moderates, the most flaky ass group. They need to spend more time, effort and money on their current more reliable base who has a hard time coming together and in many districts are being kept from voting. They need to get into black communities more instead of distancing themselves from "identity politics". Getting the youth and disenfranchised invigorated into politics and voting for their rights. Shaping leaders for the future of the Dem party. This is what the GOP and all these nazis and alt-righters are scared shitless of happening.

I agree with everything you said.

 

[IrishNinja]

I've said it before in other threads and I still feel the same. The DNC and centrists need to stop worrying about appealing to moderates, the most flaky ass group. They need to spend more time, effort and money on their current more reliable base who has a hard time coming together and in many districts are being kept from voting. They need to get into black communities more instead of distancing themselves from "identity politics". Getting the youth and disenfranchised invigorated into politics and voting for their rights. Shaping leaders for the future of the Dem party. This is what the GOP and all these nazis and alt-righters are scared shitless of happening.

amen
black women are the core of the dems' base, the eagerness with which they & other minority groups get toss over with every decry of "identity politics" (from the side that's supposed to give a shit) is staggering, and no lessons are learned from it

 

[curls]

I agree. These groups were always in the woodwork & it took a controversial presidential election to expose them.

Hillary was always pro status quo who enjoyed a very close association with a war criminal Henry Kissinger. If only people like Kissinger were under as heavy scrutiny as Trump things may change.

Status quo is broken.

 

[eBay Huckster]

who in the name of fuck was acting like clinton was going to be the savior of anything, though

 

[Unknown One]

Anybody that isn't a piece of shit, racist, and etc, would be a savior compared to Trump.

 

[dramatis]

This is what Bernie Sanders and progressives are all about, hence they are the future of the party. The youth black vote and independents were behind him. Imperial Democrats who have been complicit in everything that has happened since the 1980s share a lot of the blame.

Since when? The time they were clamoring to pursue the white working class after the election, and complaining about the excessive focus on identity politics instead of economics?

Historical revision is unbecoming.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

She wouldn't have been a savior, but it would have meant:

-No Gorsuch
-No withdrawal from the Kyoto Protocol Paris Accord
-No Scott Pruitt
-Stronger response to Charlottesville
-No Transgender ban in the military
-None of this deregulation hogwash
-No attempt at a Muslim ban
-None of this Chicago race baiting.
-None of this MS13 bullshit
-None of this Border Wall bullshit

That's more than just, "Yeah... she would have been better than Trump."

FTFY
Also:

- No Jeff Sessions
- No Betsy Devos
- No Tom Price
- No Breitbart, Alex Jones and the likes in the White House

I'm sure I'm forgetting tons of it. But yeah. This article is a stupid strawman anyway.

 

[BlueTsunami]

No, she was our savior abuela

And it is a strange thing. Trump is so awful for this country, this planet, but his actions are forcing us to deal with these racial issues. I dont know how to come to terms with that.

 

[cdyhybrid]

You're right. Overt displays of racism got the most reactions from what I see. But unfortunately some people I see on my FB raging against Nazis have also posted against Ferguson protesters rioting using misinterpreted MLK nonviolence quotes.

Then they also shat on Kaepernick for kneeling.

Yep, that's why having a presidential candidate that openly and publicly addressed institutional racism was so important - the political will isn't there in the white majority to truly start to address the problem beyond squashing its extremist symptoms. So you need a leader who is willing to have that conversation even if the majority isn't really interested.

FTFY
Also:

- No Jeff Sessions
- No Betsy Devos
- No Tom Price
- No Breitbart, Alex Jones and the likes in the White House

I'm sure I'm forgetting tons of it. But yeah. This article is a stupid strawman anyway.

Can add "No climate change denial at a federal level" to the list.

 

[Magwik]

Clinton was never going to be a savior.
But she would have led and kept moving forward with Obama's legacy and policies, and that's more than enough reason to have supported her.

 

[Suikoguy]

Since when? The time they were clamoring to pursue the white working class after the election, and complaining about the excessive focus on identity politics instead of economics?

Historical revision is unbecoming.

You should know better than to reply to the obvious (apparently forum approved) troll.

 

[MKIL65]

She would save people from wearing stupid red hats, that's for sure.

 

[lightskintwin]

FTFY
Also:

- No Jeff Sessions
- No Betsy Devos
- No Tom Price
- No Breitbart, Alex Jones and the likes in the White House

I'm sure I'm forgetting tons of it. But yeah. This article is a stupid strawman anyway.

Stupid strawman? What was the strawman? Did you even read the article?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

This article is garbage. No one is arguing that Hilary would have saved the country from white supremacy. They are arguing things would be much better if she had won.

Author seems like she has been living under a fucking rock.

This. The article seems to have concocted it's own imaginary claim and argued against it, despite no one making the claim in the first place. Hillary would have been MUCH better than Trump. This isn't a matter of opinion, it is an inarguable, as close to objective as possible, fact.

Not to mention, for as "centrist" and two-face as people claim Hillary was her calling a segment of Trump supporters "deplorables" was the most honest, least sugar coasted statement any politician has said, on that high a stage, that I can recall.

. While many contend that Donald Trump has ”enabled" white supremacists, the truth is that our whole entire society has enabled white supremacists since its inception. The idea that Trump magically created or single-handedly enabled white supremacists is as historically shortsighted as it is politically inaccurate. If anything, his presidency is helping to wake people up to ongoing realities.

While this is true, the article seems to forget that we've had numerous studies showing a significant increase in the number of hate crimes pretty much since the election season. There's absolutely no doubt that was a result of Trump

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Yep. They need to rally the base and then go after non-voters.

No one should ever go after non-voters.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Stupid strawman? What was the strawman? Did you even read the article?

Suggesting people considered her a "white savior?" Nobody claims this.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Stupid strawman? What was the strawman? Did you even read the article?

I'm guessing the strawman in the title of the thread.

No one should ever go after non-voters.

Okay, if you think going after the Cult of Trump is going to be more productive you go right ahead. Because those are your two big groups that aren't already in the tent.

 

[rpg_fan]

Trump may not have created or even done much to enable white supremacy, but he damn sure normalized it.

 

[Veitsev]

Stupid strawman? What was the strawman? Did you even read the article?

Did you? The strawman is people arguing that Hilary would save us from white supremacy.

Like the article she mentions before going into her strawman rant is saying that things would have been different under Clinton because white supremacists wouldn't have been so emboldened as they are now that they don't even cover their faces. No one is arguing the premise she is arguing against.

 

[Dude Abides]

Neither of the pieces are very good.

 

[lightskintwin]

Suggesting people considered her a "white savior?" Nobody claims this.

Did you? The strawman is people arguing that Hilary would save us from white supremacy.

Like the article she mentions before going into her strawman rant is saying that things would have been different under Clinton because white supremacists wouldn't have been so emboldened as they are now that they don't even cover their faces. No one is arguing the premise she is arguing against.

It's an editorial written by a Black woman in response to a New York time's article written by a Black woman waxing poetically about a Hillary Clinton presidency.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

I feel fairly comfortable with the judgment that it's worse to have an open Nazi sympathizer in the White House than someone who isn't an open Nazi sympathizer.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

This. The article seems to have concocted it's own imaginary claim and argued against it, despite no one making the claim in the first place. Hillary would have been MUCH better than Trump. This isn't a matter of opinion, it is an inarguable, as close to objective as possible, fact

This is correct. I mean, the potential SCOTUS picks alone would've been some tremendous upside. But now? It's all fucked up.

 

[FreezeSSC]

I dont understand how people could have expected any Democrat to be a "savior" to POC. Obama was the best you'd probably ever get and he didnt do much. Any candidate that ran on an aggressive SJW platform will probably never pass a primary. Sad facts but thats the reality we live in.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

It's an editorial in response to a New York time's article written by a Black woman waxing poetically about a Hillary Clinton presidency.

Things would be better if a Nazi sympathizer, Jeff Sessions, and Neil Gorsuch weren't in their offices, yes.

 

[B-Dubs]

It's an editorial written by a Black woman in response to a New York time's article written by a Black woman waxing poetically about a Hillary Clinton presidency.

Except it's arguing against an argument that wasn't in the article you mention. The article in question was also written by a Black woman.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

The term White saviour here is kind of baffling, like they imagine us shouting "thank you white woman"

 

[pigeon]

I dont understand how people could have expected any Democrat to be a "savior" to POC. Obama was the best you'd probably ever get and he didnt do much. Any candidate that ran on an aggressive SJW platform will probably never pass a primary. Sad facts but thats the reality we live in.

That is pretty explicitly the platform Hillary ran on.

 

[Veitsev]

It's an editorial written by a Black woman in response to a New York time's article written by a Black woman waxing poetically about a Hillary Clinton presidency.

The New York Times article does not wax poetically about a Hilary Clinton presidency.

That is not the point of the article. Maybe read it?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

That is pretty explicitly the platform Hillary ran on.

Exactly. Hillary ran on an EXPLICIT identity politics platform. She didn't try pulling the whole "Fix the economy and social issues are fixed as well" line either. She was on as close to a SJW platform as we've ever gotten and probably will for a while, since "identity politics" seems to be the new "socialism" now

 

[lightskintwin]

Things would be better if a Nazi sympathizer, Jeff Sessions, and Neil Gorsuch weren't in their offices, yes.

Now you've created a strawman. Once again did you read the article. LOL Just like much didn't change under Obama for Black communities.

 

[Suikoguy]

The New York Times article does not wax poetically about a Hilary Clinton presidency.

That is not the point of the article. Maybe read it?

I was just going to post this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/opinion/sunday/hate-that-doesnt-hide.html

Since apparently people did not bother to read the original article.

 

[Simmins]

All I got out of this article is an endorsement of the type of accelerationism that other Sanders/Stein democrats seemingly wished for with the election of Trump. And yeah I guess when we have people staging protests and getting involved it seems to be working, but none of that means anything unless it turns into actual action in the polls (this remains a big IF as long as purity tests and infighting remain). Of course that's not to say the immense damage that is happening to our reputation, institutions and domestic policy in the mean time.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

That is pretty explicitly the platform Hillary ran on.

it was?