Why is any of this an inherently bad thing though? In the case of Shenmue, it's a beloved but niche franchise. Does a big company have the money to make the game? Probably, but the return on the investment is uncertain. Why and how is it in any way shady for a company to enable the game's development, by gauging fan response with hard dollars first? After all, you're entitled to a refund if you're not furnished with the promised product right?
If Kickstarter can be an avenue for big and established companies to take risks with new products they wouldn't have otherwise, I'd say that's a good thing.
They announced the campaign on Sony's stage? Seems like a good reason to approach Sony about it.
I think we should view the development process with as much skepticism as any other Kickstarter game. Could go great, could crash and burn. Take a look at what's happening with Inafune.
Completely agree with OP.
Even Destructoid (one of my favorite sites) publishes crap like this:
http://www.destructoid.com/-6m-isn-t-enough-to-make-shenmue-3-gorgeous-visually--313944.phtml
Totally ignores the rest of the article which again, is really good.
I don't understand...its Yu Suzuki, he gave us OutRun and Virtua Fighter...cut the man some slack.
"Us", as in Shenmue fans. I really don't understand what you're getting at here.
I'm not sure it's shameful to hold a kickstarter to account.
They asked for a shitload of money, but not big-budget-game money. It makes sense to be skeptical about their finances and it makes sense to check if the project is going according to plan after they profited off of a lot of people's goodwill.
You have as of yet gained literally nothing by the Shenmue III kickstarter being successful. The only people who have benefitted from it are the the developers thus far and that will remain the case for quite some time. You don't know how the end product will turn out or if it will come to fruition at all.
Inafune is a business man. Yu Suzuki is one of the greatest game creators of all time. He easily surpasses Miyamoto for me.
Unfortunately a lot of people just aren't old enough to appreciate what Suzuki did for games or they just hate Shenmue and its success as a Kickstarter. How dare he create a game for fans.
I think what you should do in this sort of situation is to end the main story with the new game but don't do anything final like killing off the main character. That way, you give fans completion and you give yourself an out if the game doesn't do well, while at the same time, you can always go back to the world and make more (new story, same world & characters) if it's a success.
You have as of yet gained literally nothing by the Shenmue III kickstarter being successful. The only people who have benefitted from it are the the developers thus far and that will remain the case for quite some time. You don't know how the end product will turn out or if it will come to fruition at all.
I think we should view the development process with as much skepticism as any other Kickstarter game. Could go great, could crash and burn. Take a look at what's happening with Inafune.
How did it not? Boye's admitted it in the interview with Gerstmann and Suzuki said as much in his update on June 24th.
Also, while Bloodstained was also being used as a gauge of public interest for further funding, it wasn't announced on during the Sony E3 press conference. As I said in my post, that kind of shady crowdfunding campaign had been done previously, but not so blatantly.
So where in these articles do we get the investigative journalism that shines light on whether or not Yu Suzuki is going to run off with our money. There are times to hold a kickstarter to account. The stuff with Mighty No. 9, hell the stuff with Broken Age was kinda crappy too, but when there were issues that were being called out, it was at least AFTER DEVELOPMENT HAD BEGUN!
We have no reason to expect that development will go badly right now, we have no reason to expect it will go swimmingly either, it's just revving up now.
The chances of them just running off with the money and not actually working on the game are next to none. The game is now in development, and has the funding to be made. That's what fans of the franchise have gained, the game being made and having a substantial budget to work with. That's the most important thing, and certainly better than it not existing at all.
^I think it would be best to actually save that skepticism until they actually roll out press materials/trailers, since they've only just begun development recently. They've been open with the fanbase about the game thus far.
Actually, we just had an update a few days ago outlining that they hired a fan on the project who was creating the fanmade "Shenmue HD" using Unreal Engine 4. Hiring a chap like him who understands Unreal Engine 4 will mean he's a great asset for the team as well as being a passionate Shenmue fan.
He mentions in this one, that was recorded (or at least published) 2 days later.
He even explains why the kickstarter model was chosen, give it a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dL198n2d0o
When they tried to figure out Sony's involvement after their vague statements at E3. When they reported on Yu thinking $6M isn't enough when that's a lot more than the original Kickstarter asked for.
Probably those times.
I said nothign about them running off with the money. You shouldn't act like the KS being successful means you've got a game to play.
That doesn't mean the game will be good or that it won't go through development problems.
We don't even know if Shenmue III would have existed without Sony's involvement. What difference does the latter make?
I can think of several old-school developer who created amazing games in the past whose more recent releases have been less than impressive like From Dust, Amy, Moebius: Empire Rising, and Godus. I can also list great old-school developers who returned to Kickstarter and then got stuck in development hell with games like Spaceventures & Hero-U. You can say that the cost to make something like Shenmue 2 is drastically lower now than it once was, but by the same measure, you can also say that the skills involved in making an expensive AAA game for a major platform holder many years ago are very different than the skills involved in making a great independent game now. I don't think there's any point in complaining that some people are skeptical about this whole project.
They never admitted anything of the sort, they gave a marketing push (the reveal at E3) and that's it, and as for Suzuki's update I just read it again and there is nothing relating to it as well.
have a look at the media coverage, if you want to witness true terror: the wii u and the 3ds.
I said nothing about them running off with the money. You shouldn't act like the KS being successful means you've got a game to play.
Well, clearly this isn't a very reasonable assumption, since Sony are not providing funds to help realize the project. I think that the cult status of the Shenmue IP combined with an effective social media campaign would have hit the market effectively, without the added baggage of Sony's name attached to the project. It makes all the difference for me personally, between feeling comfortable with backing the project and... not so much.
The media is to blame for the Wii U's software drought? That's new.
The space between NO SORRY GUYS SHENMUE III, NEVER GONNA HAPPEN...OMFG ITS HAPPENING WHATAREGOD OMFGBBQ...SWINDLERS! THIEVES! CORRUPTION!!
Will be a fascinating thing to explore.
This post is so sad, I don't know if I should laugh at it. Confirmation bias is a great thing isn't it? Perhaps dear poster you may explain the Eurogamer article? The Kuchara piece?Jeff Gerstman was right. Old school Sega fans really are the worst :/
There is nobody to blame here but Suzuki, the team behind the Kickstarter and Sony. They are responsible for the absolutely terrible messaging and for providing weeks and weeks of mixed messaging regarding the financing of the game.
You know what would have been shameful? If the media would have just bought into the hype of OMGSHENMUE and blindly told people how amazing everything about it is going to be.
I mean, think about it. They created the kickstarter, asked for a certain amount of money to make shenmue 3 and then, after a few days and after they already got money from many, many fans Suzuki came out and straight up told people that, nah, they will only be able to make a REAL Shenmue 3 if they got at least 10 million. Seems like they kind of missed to tell us that when announcing the kickstarter?
The campaign was a disaster, the PR was a disaster and, to this day, the messaging is a disaster. When you end you kickstarter campaign and then come out a few months later saying "Yeah, well, actually, we could need a lot more money to make it look not terrible", no matter in what context, then that project deserves to be criticised for it. If there was ever one kickstarter that was shady from the very get go, it's this.
The fact that Shenmue fans don't wanna see this because, hey, it's Shenmue? Fine. I can accept that. But the way they pile onto the media because they dont blindly buy into the hype, stay wary and ask weridly unanswered questions is pretty - yup - shameful.
Also:
and yet
What am I missing here?
the media is responsible for making people think that this is simply updated hardware.
something like the 3ds and new 3ds.
^I think it would be best to actually save that skepticism until they actually roll out press materials/trailers, since they've only just begun development recently. They've been open with the fanbase about the game thus far
There's very little to say about the game itself at the moment that would be interesting to the general gaming public but the media wants to cover the story since it's the biggest video game Kickstarter to date
That's the problem. There's very little to say about the game itself at the moment that would be interesting to the general gaming public but the media wants to cover the story since it's the biggest video game Kickstarter to date, had a surprising reveal at Sony's E3 conference (second only to the reaction that FF7R got), and is the return from mobile of one of the most impressive & respected developers of all-time. Since they can't preview the game itself, there's not much else to talk about other than things like funding. And when you have a game series that is best-known by non-fans as being ridiculously expensive for its time, it's natural to raise an eyebrow when a sequel's budget is a small fraction of the previous game's.
the media is responsible for making people think that this is simply updated hardware.
something like the 3ds and new 3ds.
people thought this is still the same thing except that there is now a tablet attached.
That's the problem. There's very little to say about the game itself at the moment that would be interesting to the general gaming public but the media wants to cover the story since it's the biggest video game Kickstarter to date, had a surprising reveal at Sony's E3 conference (second only to the reaction that FF7R got), and is the return from mobile of one of the most impressive & respected developers of all-time. Since they can't preview the game itself, there's not much else to talk about other than things like funding. And when you have a game series that is best-known by non-fans as being ridiculously expensive for its time, it's natural to raise an eyebrow when a sequel's budget is a small fraction of the previous game's.
I'm going to write using proper punctuation for once, to show you that I mean it.
What Shenmue 3 has shown me, is that the dividing line between message board poster and video game journalist is a lot narrower than anybody ever thought.
Eurogamer's recent article is really great. It is. It tells the story of a game developer icon emerging from a decade in the background. Revitalised by his fans, a creative given back his medium to work in. Someone who has recovered their purpose in life.
But the headline is of course "I could do with a bit more money!"
A single quote, from a very small part of the article. There's a great story in the article as a whole, there truly is. Sadly, that story has been sacrificed for clicks.
They don't want you to read about a man who is enriched by the support of fans and looking to pay them back with something they've wanted for so long. They want you to read about this imaginary greedy man rubbing his hands to get your money.
Because outrage gets page views. Even if there's nothing there to be outraged about. And so the headline gets passed around, and people think that's the whole story. Then you get awful opinion pieces like Ben Kuchera's. His baffling, weird, confusing opinion piece where you can't figure out what the point is, besides a character assassination on Yu Suzuki for purposes unknown.
Some information about Shenmue 3 has been confusing. Some quotes taken out of context, some information that wasn't immediately clarified. The campaign wasn't perfect, the fans know that better than anybody.
What's awful is that the misinformation continues to spread, even after issues have been clarified. Despite best efforts of fans who have been following Shenmue 3's development closer than pretty much anybody in the games media. When we get annoyed or angry that a journalist has cited their own opinions about it as fact, or just disappointed us with a poor title choice like Eurogamer did, suddenly we're 'outraged fanboys' and Twitter post fodder for some game journalists to sneer at.
I've seen Shenmue called a sacred cow. It's anything but. Shenmue has been openly ridiculed for years and years. Sometimes for valid reasons, and sometimes just because. It's only in the last couple of years we've seen articles like the great Guardian piece where the writer looked past the meme-bait voice acting and reputation for being 'boring walking simulator' to find a game they really liked, even without any nostalgic factor on their part.
People like Colin Moriarty writing the game off three months into development is just dumb. Nobody doubts making Shenmue 3 is a monumental task, but Yu Suzuki is a video game icon that this industry owes huge amounts to. Just as much as Miyamoto and others.
Yu Suzuki seems revitalised, energised, and creatively refreshed. That's something to be excited about. An industry great, stripped of his old superstar status, but given new purpose by his fans. It's a lot of pressure, but I definitely think he can handle it.
But nobody wants to read about that, right?
That's Nintendo's problem for naming it that, it was a terrible idea for a name. The media isn't supposed to be the marketing arm of Nintendo.
Gaming 'journalism'
I wonder what was the budget for a Rare game back in their prime. I'm guessing it was higher than what Yooka Laylee got. Why not the skepticism there?
That's Nintendo's problem for naming it that, it was a terrible idea for a name. The media isn't supposed to be the marketing arm of Nintendo.
Honestly, I'm really shocked that Yooka Laylee didn't get much skepticism. The budget they asked for was ridiculously small for what they were proposing. I thought people would ridicule that project to no end (besides the unrealistic budget, I thought the character design was really bad as well) and was shocked that it was nothing but sunshine and roses.
Marrec, what in your opinion is the relevance of Sony's involvement, if it's as minor as they say?
Do you just think they're straight up lying about sony's role?
Everything about the Gaming Media is nothing more than a marketing arm of the industry.
You have as of yet gained literally nothing by the Shenmue III kickstarter being successful. The only people who have benefitted from it are the the developers thus far and that will remain the case for quite some time. You don't know how the end product will turn out or if it will come to fruition at all.
Doesn't surprised me. The gaming media have revealed themselves to be self-serving asses post Xbone's anti-consumer policy.
Honestly, I'm really shocked that Yooka Laylee didn't get much skepticism. The budget they asked for was ridiculously small for what they were proposing. I thought people would ridicule that project to no end (besides the unrealistic budget, I thought the character design was really bad as well) and was shocked that it was nothing but sunshine and roses.