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[Deleted member 17706]

Who's recommending diets high in carbs? In the past couple years that I've taken more of an interest in what I eat, I have never heard of a single diet that doesn't start out with "cut your carb intake dramatically."

Governments and many official health agencies.

So even having this stuff in moderation is bad?

Moderately bad, yes.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Who's recommending diets high in carbs? In the past couple years that I've taken more of an interest in what I eat, I have never heard of a single diet that doesn't start out with "cut your carb intake dramatically."

High carb vegan diet for one.

I eat a lot of high fiber grains every day (brown rice and multigrain bread) and never gain any weight.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Here are my opinions on the topics of that article:

-Eggs are really, really, good for you. They are packed with nutrients and provide great satiety.

-Processed sugar should be avoided. The sugar you get from eating fruits such as apples, oranges, and other naturally occurring sugars is all you need/should have.

-Salt isn't bad for you. The anti-salt movement is such bullshit, IMO. HOWEVER, if someone is regularly consuming 2x or more of their daily salt needs then yes it can become a major issue. Usually, consuming such huge amounts of salt is a result of shitty eating habits anyways ex: fast food every single day. If you are eating that shitty to consume that much salt, then the salt itself is just one of MANY problems you will have.

 

[AstroLad]

I'm trying eggs all different ways since bariatric surgery. For me, it is a super food.

Eggs are awesome and so beneficial in so many ways. Really perverse how they were demonized for decades to the point where the industry had to try to defend itself via ad campaigns just to hang on.

 

[deadscreensky]

So even having this stuff in moderation is bad?

Part of the problem with insulin resistance is to some degree it's actually inherited from the mother. So for example people living in the Victorian era were probably okay with around 40 pounds of sugar a year, but if you give that same amount to an American living in 2016 it's going to have a much more severe effect. They have an inherently higher insulin resistance.

Of course by American standards 40 pounds isn't even moderate. Average American has somewhere around 150 pounds of sugar a year.

Sugar isn't an acute poison, it's not something you have once and you're already dead, it's an issue of accumulation and what it does to your body long-term. I think cigarettes are a pretty good analogy, though those are arguably healthier...

So true moderation would be okay, but culturally we're so past excess that I don't think most people recognize just how low this "moderation" would have to be. If you were just having a soda every once in a whole, no big deal, but you're probably eating sugar nearly constantly.

 

[infinitys_7th]

The TLR version of this is that the prevalence of sugar in all of everything has had a massive, quantifiable impact on rates of obesity, heart disease, and diabetes in the West, particularly in the US and UK since 1980.

Eating a low-fat yogurt with 25 g of sugar or drowning yourself in Orange juice daily is horrifically bad for you, but is currently presented as part of a "healthy" diet.

Fad diets that completely eliminate carbs (paleo, etc) or focus on eliminating a vital, ubiquitous molecule like cholesterol, are overcompensating for the fact that nearly everything we consume has an inordinate amount of sugar.

I'm not sure a true ketogenic diet can be called a fad diet. It's an alternative metabolic mode.

20-40g carbs a day is more than sufficient from a metabolic standpoint. I don't think anyone needs >100g a day unless they need to replenish glycogen for some burst activity, and really the research is out on that as well.

And that is not counting all of the fiber from the vegetables you are supposed to eat, which help support a healthy digestive system (in particular, healthy intestinal flora).

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Eggs are awesome and so beneficial in so many ways. Really perverse how they were demonized for decades to the point where the industry had to try to defend itself via ad campaigns just to hang on.

Try cracking eggs into a 6-12 hole muffin tin and baking them in the oven. There are a bunch of great recipes for these "muffin" eggs. You can add in chopped up peppers, jalapenos, spinach, etc.

 

[AstroLad]

Who's recommending diets high in carbs? In the past couple years that I've taken more of an interest in what I eat, I have never heard of a single diet that doesn't start out with "cut your carb intake dramatically."

Here's the recommendation from the American Diabetes Association. Remember that carbs are literal poison to diabetics:

How Much Carbohydrate?

How much carbohydrate you eat is very individual. Finding the right amount of carbohydrate depends on many things including how active you are and what, if any, medicines you take. Some people are active and can eat more carbohydrate. Others may need to have less carbohydrate to keep their blood glucose in control.

Finding the balance for yourself is important so you can feel your best, do the things you enjoy, and lower your risk of diabetes complications.

A place to start is at about 45-60 grams of carbohydrate at a meal. You may need more or less carbohydrate at meals depending on how you manage your diabetes.

You and your health care team can figure out the right amount for you. Once you know how much carb to eat at a meal, choose your food and the portion size to match.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Too bad almost anything healthy is expensive. Mid to low class families out of luck once again.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

But I just ordered PB&J and red velvet poptarts.

 

[daniels]

ot

 

[NinjaMouse]

So even having this stuff in moderation is bad?

of course most things are fine in moderation, but I'd wager that most people have no idea what moderation really is. I believe that diet, just like personal finance, is 90% behavior and 10% information. "Moderation" is a slippery slope. How many times have we done this with out lunch groups at work:

Day 1: "hmm...I haven't had pizza in a couple weeks, I think I'll have some"
Day 2: "wow...I haven't eaten a cheeseburger in 2 weeks, that's for lunch today"
Day 3: "you know what I haven't had in a long time...a milkshake. Lets do it!"
Day 4: "man, Popeyes would be great. We haven't been there in forever. We should all go today!"
Day 5: "It's Friday, lets go have a good 'sit-down' lunch somewhere. How about Chinese buffet? We haven't been since last month"

...and so on. Next thing you know, you've wrapped back around to next week and have eaten junk every day for the entire week. All the while saying things like, "I might have pizza once a month! Why am I still gaining?"

 

[infinitys_7th]

Hmm 🤔 okay, I like fruit anyway so that's a plus but man HFCS is just about in everything. Also does anyone know if any regular fruit is bad for you?

Technically not by itself. Most fruits have enough fiber and complex carbs to help buffer high fructose levels. Fructose is a problem for keto, though, because it immediately regenerates liver glycogen so I have to avoid them. I do eat a good amount of berries - I love raspberries and blackberries.

Fruit juice is nearly worthless, though. You almost maybe as well drink a regular soda with some vitamin supplements.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Too bad almost anything healthy is expensive. Mid to low class families out of luck once again.

Chicken, pork, eggs, butter, leafy greens, etc. are expensive?

I understand there are urban locations that have really poor (or no) access to fresh ingredients, of course.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Cutting sugar/carbs to bare minimum is literally the only thing that's ever worked for me in terms of changing my health/weight.

I envy people who can eat a reasonable portion of carbs or sugar and still otherwise maintain a healthy lifestyle, but I just can't. It feels to me a lot like if I were an alcoholic but people kept recommending that I should really still have a beer or two a day and expected me to stop there.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Too bad almost anything healthy is expensive. Mid to low class families out of luck once again.

Yeah it definitely can be. Throw in a bit more change if you want organic as well.

Poor communities tend to have high obesity rates and horrible nutrition. The dollar/value menus provide massive amounts of calories+fat for the price, but quickly result in malnourishment.

 

[Weckum]

Here's the recommendation from the American Diabetes Association. Remember that carbs are literal poison to diabetics:

45-60 isn't that many carbs tho. It is to people with diabetes, but for non-diabetics it's a pretty fair amount.

edit: sorry, it says PER MEAL. Crap, that's 150-180 carbs a day. Yeahhhh, that's a lot.

I try to stay below 25-30, don't eat too much sugar. Basically I follow a keto diet 5 days a week (I like to cheat on weekends). I have lost 10 pounds the last three months.

 

[plagiarize]

Yeah it definitely can be. Throw in a bit more change if you want organic as well.

Poor communities tend to have high obesity rates and horrible nutrition. The dollar/value menus provide massive amounts of calories+fat for the price, but quickly result in malnourishment.

When things are really tight you can't beat ramen. And nutritionally, ramen is not something you want to regularly eat.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Cutting sugar/carbs to bare minimum is literally the only thing that's ever worked for me in terms of changing my health/weight.

I envy people who can eat a reasonable portion of carbs or sugar and still otherwise maintain a healthy lifestyle, but I just can't. It feels to me a lot like if I were an alcoholic but people kept recommending that I should really still have a beer or two a day and expected me to stop there.

I'm posting a lot, but I feel this as well. I thank keto for making me feel full when I never could before.

I was insatiable before I did this. Now I rarely get hungry and more or less eat on a schedule because I need to eat.

 

[water_wendi]

The article mentions Gary Taubes, and his book Good Calories, Bad Calories gets into a lot of this. It's a bit of a slow read, but I definitely recommend it. The mentioned Why We Get Fat is a lot more readable -- it's actually not a bad place to start if you're willing to look at two books -- but it also doesn't get into the problems with sugar to nearly the same degree.

I've stopped eating nearly all sugar myself, mostly because of its impact on cancer. Having more energy, losing weight, simply feeling smarter/quicker, etc. is just a bonus.

Heres a Why We Get Fat lecture by Taubes on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEuIlQONcHw&nohtml5=False For those that havent been exposed to the information its a must watch, imo.

 

[yonder]

High carb vegan diet for one.

I eat a lot of high fiber grains every day (brown rice and multigrain bread) and never gain any weight.

Same here. This last week I lived on oatmeal, rice and beans and lost weight without trying, and this is while eating big, satisfying portions whenever I was hungry. People really shouldn't be scared of whole grains, potatoes, fruits and the like.

I've done low-carb for a year with lots of butter and meat, and that made me gain weight not to mention how sluggish I felt.

 

[Griss]

It's amazing to me that this isn't more of a scandal.

If I had been taught nutrition as a child I never would have become fat. I simply didn't know what the stuff I was consuming was doing to my body. And as I lived without parents (or much adult supervision) from the age of 12 onward, I was having like 6 sodas a day from then, and thinking 'But I don't eat that much!' (I didn't.)

I didn't learn properly about nutrition until I was around 23 years old and obese by BMI standards and the second I did my weight decreased. But it was too late for it not to be a constant fight the rest of my life. Right now I'm 6'1, 190lbs, but I have to watch what I eat / diet every single day or that shoots up quickly.

It's astonishing how much useless shit we learn in schools while the most important things go untaught. Everyone should know their Basal Metabolic rate, how to estimate calories, and that every 3,500 calories above or below your daily needs will gain or lose you a pound of fat, give or take.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Same here. This last week I lived on oatmeal, rice and beans and lost weight without trying, and this is while eating big, satisfying portions whenever I was hungry. People really shouldn't be scared of whole grains, potatoes, fruits and the like.

A lot of people should be, actually. Whole or processed, there are tons of people out there who will not respond well to grains and starches, and will easily accumulate fat by consuming them.

If you're fit and healthy and you aren't experiencing any problems, then sure, but for people who are struggling with their weight and health in general? They may want to experiment with giving them up completely for a while.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Industry responsible for the maligning and death of worldwide populations in order to line their coffers, all while proping up nutrition "scientist" quacks for the last 40 years. Smells like unchecked crony capitalism to me!

 

[Always-honest]

What a rotten field nutrition has become (still is?). The adherence to dogma and inability to accept or admit culpability is disgusting.

Also:

I'm going to buy 100 eggs right now!

Yeah this has been known for a while now and i eat eggs almost daily. Food of the gods.

 

[sir_kevith]

Even my half hearted attempts at dropping sugar help me out. I lost weight just by paying attention to added sugar and saying no sometimes. If I had a pop in the day I wouldn't drink more pop or beer in the evening. I never really do desserts so that helps.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

The key take away here is that refining and processing foods in certain ways can make foods that were fine in their whole forms hazardous to your health. That and balancing your diet are necessary for long term health. For example, if you take a standard sized dinner plate and divided it into quarters and then fill up one quarter with a whole protein source, 2 quarters with colorful, whole vegetables and/or fruits, and (optionally) one quarter with a whole carb source (e.g., legumes/beans, whole grains, or colorful root vegetables), you likely can't go wrong so long as you are not frying and/or charring the shit out of everything and not slathering everything with tons of sauces full of processed/refined sugars and hydrogenated/trans fats.

 

[creationtheory]

I replaced the sugar in my diet with violence.

 

[SimleuqiR]

I've always liked this one:

Pro-tip: Drink water. Anything packaged is making you fat. An average beer is healthier for you than Coca-Cola.

Wait, are you saying I can drink more beer!?

 

[infinitys_7th]

The key take away here is that refining and processing foods in certain ways can make foods that were fine in their whole forms hazardous to your health. That and balancing your diet are necessary for long term health. For example, if you take a standard sized dinner plate and divided it into quarters and then fill up one quarter with a whole protein source, 2 quarters with colorful, whole vegetables and/or fruits, and (optionally) one quarter with a whole carb source (e.g., legumes/beans, whole grains, or colorful root vegetables), you likely can't go wrong so long as you are not frying and/or charring the shit out of everything and not slathering everything with tons of sauces full of processed/refined sugars and hydrogenated/trans fats.

But where is the fat there?

 

[GamerJM]

Sugar tastes too good, though. Fuck healthy diets.

 

[deadscreensky]

Fat tastes great too, though, and it makes you feel better. The basic diet rule to follow is to replace your sugar with fat. You can still eat very tasty food without sugar!

Heres a Why We Get Fat lecture by Taubes on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEuIlQONcHw&nohtml5=False For those that havent been exposed to the information its a must watch, imo.

I'll give it a viewing this afternoon, thanks!

 

[LakeEarth]

Try cracking eggs into a 6-12 hole muffin tin and baking them in the oven. There are a bunch of great recipes for these "muffin" eggs. You can add in chopped up peppers, jalapenos, spinach, etc.

You can throw in some tuna in there too, breakfast becomes dinner.

 

[ersocaster]

I find it interesting that people started to become more obese as dietary guidelines got stricter.

Maybe the problem isn't what we eat, but the era we live in. Think about the difference between 1950 and now. In 1950, we had people coming home from war. Many jobs were physical. Media was not as popular, which meant more people playing outside.

Now? You can work from home, and order groceries online. It's possible to not leave your house for months at a time. And even if you do, most people have cars where they can just sit and push a peddle slightly and go anywhere they want.

 

[AstroLad]

I find it interesting that people started to become more obese as dietary guidelines got stricter.

Maybe the problem isn't what we eat, but the era we live in. Think about the difference between 1950 and now. In 1950, we had people coming home from war. Many jobs were physical. Media was not as popular, which meant more people playing outside.

Now? You can work from home, and order groceries online. It's possible to not leave your house for months at a time. And even if you do, most people have cars where they can just sit and push a peddle slightly and go anywhere they want.

Those are definitely factors in the overall problem -- I don't think anyone should be saying that sugar and sham dietary guidelines themselves are to blame, though it's obvious now that we've actually hurt ourselves by relying on fraudulent nutrition "science." But on those other points, forget war and cataclysmic events, just in terms of everyday routines we used to walk way more because mixed-use neighborhoods made it possible to have a "neighborhood" grocer, clothing store, etc. And communities were actually designed with walkability in mind rather than being actively hostile to pedestrians (see this awesome Duany series on this and related topics of zoning failures). /digression

 

[deadscreensky]

I find it interesting that people started to become more obese as dietary guidelines got stricter.

Maybe the problem isn't what we eat, but the era we live in. Think about the difference between 1950 and now. In 1950, we had people coming home from war. Many jobs were physical. Media was not as popular, which meant more people playing outside.

Now? You can work from home, and order groceries online. It's possible to not leave your house for months at a time. And even if you do, most people have cars where they can just sit and push a peddle slightly and go anywhere they want.

Obesity is widely seen in poorer, and hence generally more physical populations. This has been true for literally more than a century. Poverty is strongly correlated with obesity.

The problem is absolutely what we eat.

(To explode another myth, it's routinely found that fat people often eat less food than their skinny peers. Fat tissue is regulated by hormones, not calorie intake.)

Though as I mentioned earlier, things like insulin resistance do get worse over generations, so "era" is at least a small aspect of the issue. Each successive generation gets fatter more easily, basically, as long as the mother has some degree of elevated insulin resistance. (In the US they basically all do.)

 

[ColdPizza]

Who's recommending diets high in carbs? In the past couple years that I've taken more of an interest in what I eat, I have never heard of a single diet that doesn't start out with "cut your carb intake dramatically."

In the mid to late 70s fat was vilified so the American food industry barraged us with shit like this and people thought it was okay to eat....

 

[Malvolio]

I'm no longer willing to only blame consumer ignorance. It should be no surprise to people that all the money that was once in cigarettes is now in processed food. These corporations saw a good business model (addiction) and stuck with it.

 

[iddqd]

This pops up at the worst time, around 3pm eastern where its time for a snack consisting of a Bagel with peanut butter and jelly.
Gonna have some water and air instead. Thanks GAF

 

[FreddieQuell]

(To explode another myth, it's routinely found that fat people often eat less food than their skinny peers. Fat tissue is regulated by hormones, not calorie intake.)

I'd like to see the receipts on this. Where is it routinely found?

 

[NinjaMouse]

In the mid to late 70s fat was vilified so the American food industry barraged us with shit like this and people thought it was okay to eat....

But it's in a green box and has "well" in the name. WTF do you mean it's not good for me? I can eat the whole box and be healthy, right?

/sarcasm

 

[AstroLad]

of course most things are fine in moderation, but I'd wager that most people have no idea what moderation really is. I believe that diet, just like personal finance, is 90% behavior and 10% information. "Moderation" is a slippery slope. How many times have we done this with out lunch groups at work:

Day 1: "hmm...I haven't had pizza in a couple weeks, I think I'll have some"
Day 2: "wow...I haven't eaten a cheeseburger in 2 weeks, that's for lunch today"
Day 3: "you know what I haven't had in a long time...a milkshake. Lets do it!"
Day 4: "man, Popeyes would be great. We haven't been there in forever. We should all go today!"
Day 5: "It's Friday, lets go have a good 'sit-down' lunch somewhere. How about Chinese buffet? We haven't been since last month"

...and so on. Next thing you know, you've wrapped back around to next week and have eaten junk every day for the entire week. All the while saying things like, "I might have pizza once a month! Why am I still gaining?"

Can't stress enough how true this is. The concept of "moderation" and "treats" has just been so perverted that whenever I hear someone mention it I just basically treat it as a euphemism for "yeah, I totally give up." I remember in college I was already doing low-carb (type-1 diabetic, as mentioned, and it's just so much easier) and Atkins became a big thing so the people at my office started doing it and asking me for tips. They would sort of hang in during the day (with me vetoing their menu options constantly -- I guess carbs are really hard to understand, no you can't eat potatoes) and then literally by the end of ONE DAY be like "yeah fuck this I've done so well today I'm gonna get pizza/fried chicken for dinner...I've earned it." And then they'd do it again the next day! They actually did lose a little weight on it at first when they were being somewhat strict, but it was just insane. This is a big reason why Atkins got a bad rap (combined with some of their marketing being annoying and also the fact that they were actually too liberal with carb limits imo).

 

[toythatkills]

In the mid to late 70s fat was vilified so the American food industry barraged us with shit like this and people thought it was okay to eat....

Holy shit the upper case/lower case writing in that name is making me more angry than the rest of this thread is.

 

[AstroLad]

In the mid to late 70s fat was vilified so the American food industry barraged us with shit like this and people thought it was okay to eat....

Fat free!!!!

 

[deadscreensky]

I'd like to see the receipts on this. Where is it routinely found?

I assume you're talking about the less calories thing. Here's a recent example, though I know there's clinical research dating back to at least the 1930s. (I don't like the article's focus on activity, but that's a common dogma in these sorts of things.)

You also see it in animal studies, which I personally find more interesting because you can precisely control for them in a way we won't with humans. I can't find a particularly good link right now, unfortunately, but Zucker rats are pretty intriguing. There's been experiments where those disposed to obesity get fat even on lifelong semi-starvation diets.

I mentioned it before, but Good Calories, Bad Calories gets into all of this in detail.

 

[FreddieQuell]

I assume you're talking about the less calories thing. Here's a recent example, though I know there's clinical research dating back to at least the 1930s.

You also see it in animal studies, which I personally find more interesting because you can precisely control for them in a way we won't with humans. I can't find a particularly good link right now, unfortunately, but Zucker rats are pretty intriguing. There's been experiments where those disposed to obesity get fat even on lifelong semi-starvation diets.

I mentioned it before, but Good Calories, Bad Calories gets into all of this in detail.

I had assumed you were talking about overall calorie balance, not just intake. It makes perfect sense that a person could be fatter than someone while eating less calories than them if they don't do any physical activity. In that NPR article the say the difference is in the range of 100-400 calories. That's a difference that can easily be wiped out with a physically active lifestyle.

 

[EatinOlives]

While I'm no scientist or nutritionist, natural sources of it (from fruit or vegetables) is OK in moderation but the regular stuff (or HFCS) is bad.

BUT THOSE COMMERCIALS PAID FOR BY THE CORN INDUSTRY TOLD ME SUGAR IS SUGAR THO

 

[Aske]

I just wish more companies made low carb/sugar convenience foods. I'm not going to start cooking like some kind of Alfred Pennyworth. Let me buy high fat, high protein, low carb processed foods I can just shove in my face. I don't need to eat perfectly; I just want to avoid the really bad stuff that shouldn't be in my food. Salt is fine. Artificial sweetener is fine. Chemicals are fine. I don't need grass-fed beef or organic vegetables. Just remove the sugar so I can make healthier choices without having to become le chef de cuisine who cooks his own food like some kind of manual-transmission-preferring, copper-pan-owning, vegetables-are-delicious-you-just-have-to-cook-them-right-claiming, cricket-watching, collared-shirt-sporting, book-reading, glasses-wearing, sex-having hipster.

 

[AstroLad]

I just wish more companies made low carb/sugar convenience foods. I'm not going to start cooking like some kind of Alfred Pennyworth. Let me buy high fat, high protein, low carb processed foods I can just shove in my face. I don't need to eat perfectly; I just want to avoid the really bad stuff that shouldn't be in my food. Salt is fine. Artificial sweetener is fine. Chemicals are fine. I don't need grass-fed beef or organic vegetables. Just remove the sugar so I can make healthier choices without having to become le chef de cuisine who cooks his own food like some kind of manual-transmission-preferring, copper-pan-owning, vegetables-are-delicious-you-just-have-to-cook-them-right-claiming, cricket-watching, collared-shirt-sporting, book-reading, glasses-wearing, sex-having hipster.

So without opining on the otherwise health value of these, in terms of conveniency/snacky food you have things like:
-pepperoni slices
-pork rinds
-string cheese/cracker barrel slices
-some beef jerky (you really have to check the label though -- this is one of the most unnecessarily sugared snack types)

 

[jman2050]

I just wish more companies made low carb/sugar convenience foods. I'm not going to start cooking like some kind of Alfred Pennyworth. Let me buy high fat, high protein, low carb processed foods I can just shove in my face. I don't need to eat perfectly; I just want to avoid the really bad stuff that shouldn't be in my food. Salt is fine. Artificial sweetener is fine. Chemicals are fine. I don't need grass-fed beef or organic vegetables. Just remove the sugar so I can make healthier choices without having to become le chef de cuisine who cooks his own food like some kind of manual-transmission-preferring, copper-pan-owning, vegetables-are-delicious-you-just-have-to-cook-them-right-claiming, cricket-watching, collared-shirt-sporting, book-reading, glasses-wearing, sex-having hipster.

Nuts.

The answer here is nuts.