The Surge vs Dark Souls: A Detailed Comparison of Structure, Setting & Mechanics

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nynt9

Member
https://youtu.be/4c_JPDMgkhI

I thought this video was great. Gives a detailed look on the game and talks about how it compares, after 25 hours of play.

Combat: very satisfying, weighty and the dismemberment system is great. Strongest aspect of the game. Instead of focusing on just bosses, every encounter is deadly and challenging. Bosses are great too. Vastly improved from LOTF. Animations are really good and telegraph attacks well, and also flow nicely.

Progression: you can build your character in many different ways, there's crafting and a good amount of variety.

Setting & level design: the world is very interconnected and well-realized. Small, claustrophobic areas that are intensely interconnected and complex. Instead of having many bonfires, areas have few bonfires that everything connects back to with an abundance of shortcuts. Video shows some later areas that weren't shown in the earlier previews and they look cool.

edit: first 60 minutes gameplay from the same guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZbmyRJd-U
 
It's a cool video!

Even after finishing Nioh in March and then finally getting around to the Dark Souls 3 DLC earlier this week I'm still not burnt out on the style. Looks as though the devs have really taken the useful criticism of LotF to heart and made something that is a unique spin on the core gameplay concept of Souls. Probably not going to pick it up for $60 at launch since there's no extra incentive due to lack of co-op or PVP and I have more than enough to play already, but I'll definitely keep an eye on it.
 
Does it come with a character creator or do I have to play with boring brown-haired white Scruffy McScruff #367832?
 
I'm watching Cohhcarange play right now and it just looks like easy mode. The enemies offer no challenge and he just does the same combo over and over and over to wipe things down.

I am going to stay on wait and see mode on this one for a bit.
 
Lime said:
Does it come with a character creator or do I have to play with boring brown-haired white Scruffy McScruff #367832?
Click to expand...

You have play as a pre-set character with a backstory and such. No creation. Seems like your character is disabled and then is outfitted with an exoskeleton that lets him walk.
 
Lime said:
Does it come with a character creator or do I have to play with boring brown-haired white Scruffy McScruff #367832?
Click to expand...

Judging by the first minute of the video, you play as 'white scruffy mc scruff' on a wheelchair.

btw. that cgi intro is distrubing as hell, guess I'm gonna watch this vid since so far it looks like this game might actually be a pleasant surprise.
 
Perineum said:
I'm watching Cohhcarange play right now and it just looks like easy mode. The enemies offer no challenge and he just does the same combo over and over and over to wipe things down.

I am going to stay on wait and see mode on this one for a bit.
Click to expand...

Thats weird. All impressions so far are just like the OP one. That its pretty hard and the normal enemies are all very strong and no cannon fodder types.
 
I mean, you can't blame people for thinking this game is going to be some hideously uninspired souls ripoff nonsense.

Also, he doesn't seem to understand why lords of the fallen was so terrible. it went far, far beyond the clunky combat. If they've improved that then great but I don't see how anybody could even be remotely hyped for this after their last game.
 
Perineum said:
I'm watching Cohhcarange play right now and it just looks like easy mode. The enemies offer no challenge and he just does the same combo over and over and over to wipe things down.
Click to expand...

I am watching Elajjaz's streaming and getting very similar feelings. Granted, it's only one hour in so far.

Also, the setting isn't very interesting, it's like Transformers but without all the personalities. Running around a construction site and fighting an excavator aren't exactly fun.
 
I'd wait until this game is in more people's hands because Lords of the Fallen was one of the glitchiest games I've played this generation. Not seeing enough coverage of The Surge discussed in that light.
 
Moon_frogger said:
I mean, you can't blame people for thinking this game is going to be some hideously uninspired souls ripoff nonsense.

Also, he doesn't seem to understand why lords of the fallen was so terrible. it went far, far beyond the clunky combat. If they've improved that then great but I don't see how anybody could even be remotely hyped for this after their last game.
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Because there is a tons of footage and impressions for months to form a opinion about it and get hyped. I understand also that people are saying wait and see first. Both are possible imo.
 
Theorry said:
Because there is a tons of footage and impressions for months to form a opinion about it and get hyped. I understand also that people are saying wait and see first. Both are possible imo.
Click to expand...

There is footage of one single area, the very beginning of the game.
 
Liamc723 said:
So to say there has been loads of footage for months is a bit disingenuous.

I know it doesn't really represent the full game.
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We never see a full game beforehand really. Still seeing the game with the combat, loot etc and get impressions of people playing hours of it. I cant see why you cant get hyped if you like with you see and hear.
 
Like the idea that main character is originally in a wheelchair. Hope they do something with that

Karamsoul said:
Apparently, the game only has
5 bosses
so I'm worried about the longevity.
Click to expand...
Guy in the video has played 25 hours and only encountered 3 bosses. He makes it very clear that unlike dark souls, bosses are not a big focus. So a low boss number doesn't really reflect the game's length
 
The "less focus on bosses, more focus on trash, but the easiest way is to just run past them" sounds rather self-defeating. Bosses are interesting because they provide intermittent points of climax throughout the game, if it's just trash killing for the most part that sounds rather monotonous.

Oh and it's made by the Lords of the Fallen devs? I'll put it on bargain bin status until proven otherwise.
 
Im watching the GB quick look and so far....nothing stands out. The environmental design alone is just one giant warehouse and the enemies dont really offer much.
 
Well Carnage got recked haha.

HeavyDisfiguredBlackfootedferret.gif
 
Sounds great, I have wanted a sci-fi Dark Souls for a while now. I'm a little put off by the talk of the difficulty though, as DS3 and BB are about the limits of my ability. Hopefully devs don't just start assuming that harder than DS = better than DS.
 
Been on my radar for a while now, but it's good to hear positive impressions 25h in. It's like If dark souls and binary domain had a child. Really glad to hear the hub world is well interconnected too, it's a big part of what makes souls good.
 
TatteredHat said:
The "less focus on bosses, more focus on trash, but the easiest way is to just run past them" sounds rather self-defeating. Bosses are interesting because they provide intermittent points of climax throughout the game, if it's just trash killing for the most part that sounds rather monotonous.

Oh and it's made by the Lords of the Fallen devs? I'll put it on bargain bin status until proven otherwise.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that all sounded iffy to me, and the game still looks super bland. I'll wait.
 
TatteredHat said:
The "less focus on bosses, more focus on trash, but the easiest way is to just run past them" sounds rather self-defeating.
Click to expand...
Why are they called "trash? Is that Souls lingo or something? They're just enemies to fight. While the bosses are the best spectacle, I always found combat against regular enemies in Souls game the much more enjoyable aspect
 
Listening to it now at work. I have a very unusual nitpick.

Is it just me, or is this narrator heavily misusing/overusing the term "trash mobs"? I'm finding it extremely off-putting... At first I thought enemies must be literally made of refuse and space junk, but then I switched to the video tab and saw he just referred to every overworld enemy as "trash".

I know it's an odd thing to find so grating, especially since it's a small point in a long and educated analysis, but I'm finding it really irritating and reductive.

My own understanding of a "trash mob" is an enemy specifically placed to impede or distract the player from a larger more imminent threat. Common enemies spawned by bosses during battles, for example, would be trash mobs. Or enemies that die in one hit and pose more of a distraction than a challenge - these would be "trash mobs."

But this person's continuous use of the mere word "trash" seems inappropriate. He describing how overworld enemies are dangerous and complex characters that constitute the game's entire difficulty curve but referring to them constantly as trash. His language seems to directly contradict what he is trying to express. It also goes against the fact that Souls-style maps are populated with very powerful and surprising monsters that players must be cunning to defeat.

It reminds me of a thread we had once over whether or not a term like "savescumming" is derogatory because of the obvious negative connotation that implies the player's behavior is scummy. Constantly and unrelentingly referring to every enemy in the game as trash, not even trash mob - just trash - seems to be activating some overly defensive part in my brain that is making me angry for basically no reason at all. It's making him seem elitist and condescending even though, factually and objectively, the material is not.

Strange the impact language can have.
 
More_Badass said:
Why are they called "trash? Is that Souls lingo or something? They're just enemies to fight. While the bosses are the best spectacle, I always found combat against regular enemies in Souls game the much more enjoyable aspect
Click to expand...

It's MMO/RPG lingo. Generic enemies you fight by the dozens as fodder on the way to the "real" content. But that's clearly not the approach here, seems like they want every encounter to matter. It's not a derogatory term.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Trash_mob

A trash mob (or simply trash) is any monster that is not a boss. Trash mobs are usually easier to kill than bosses, although there are some famous trash pulls which are actually harder than the boss they precede

...

The term trash mob derives from the term yard trash which was coined in the late 1990s MMORPG Everquest. In that game, a low-level dungeon, Unrest, was composed of a house which contained several bosses, surrounded by a front, side, and back yard. In the yards, there were yard trash. Lower level players shouted for groups to kill yard trash for experience either before they were high-leveled enough to kill the bosses or when all the bosses were camped.
Click to expand...
 
More_Badass said:
Why are they called "trash? Is that Souls lingo or something? They're just enemies to fight. While the bosses are the best spectacle, I always found combat against regular enemies in Souls game the much more enjoyable aspect
Click to expand...

It's MMO lingo iirc. Originates from all the monsters in a dungeon or raid that you have to fight to get to the bosses, the real challenge.
 
More_Badass said:
Why are they called "trash? Is that Souls lingo or something? They're just enemies to fight. While the bosses are the best spectacle, I always found combat against regular enemies in Souls game the much more enjoyable aspect
Click to expand...
Yeah, a 'trash mob' is what you fight leading up to the boss.
 
nynt9 said:
It's MMO/RPG lingo. Generic enemies you fight by the dozens as fodder on the way to the "real" content. But that's clearly not the approach here, seems like they want every encounter to matter.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Trash_mob
Click to expand...

I wonder if it's primarily a WoW thing. I played RuneScape (a British MMO, coincidentally) for four years and never heard the term "trash mob" there. I've really only heard it in reference to grindy JRPGs. Edit: Oh, Everquest, I guess.
 
Really excited for the game. Big fan of the soulsborne series and honestly didn't hate lords of the fallen. Sounds like Deck13 has made some solid changes since LoTF.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
I wonder if it's primarily a WoW thing. I played RuneScape (a British MMO, coincidentally) for four years and never heard the term "trash mob" there. I've really only heard it in reference to grindy JRPGs.
Click to expand...

No it's been around since the 90s. Runescape is just different. It applies more to theme park style MMOs with traditional dungeon design like EQ, WOW, etc instead of more sandboxy MMOs like RS.
 
I would have given it to a souls fanatic
like Aris/Avoiding the puddle or something. Yeah he and most people hated LOTF but it would be a good barometer.
 
Seems they are getting better, when they someday understand that character creation is an absolutely essential part of the formula instead of forcing their generic dudes on us, i will give them a chance...but only then.
 
nynt9 said:
No it's been around since the 90s. Runescape is just different. It applies more to theme park style MMOs with traditional dungeon design like EQ, WOW, etc instead of more sandboxy MMOs like RS.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. Thank you.

As mentioned before, it seems like an extremely contradictory term to be utilizing here.
 
Dinda said:
Seems they are getting better, when they someday understand that character creation is an absolutely essential part of the formula instead of forcing their generic dudes on us, i will give them a chance...but only then.
Click to expand...

eh...character creation is like bottom of the barrel for me. is it really a must have feature for people?
 
Corpekata said:
It's MMO lingo iirc. Originates from all the monsters in a dungeon or raid that you have to fight to get to the bosses, the real challenge.
Click to expand...
nynt9 said:
It's MMO/RPG lingo. Generic enemies you fight by the dozens as fodder on the way to the "real" content. But that's clearly not the approach here, seems like they want every encounter to matter. It's not a derogatory term.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Trash_mob
Click to expand...
That usage doesn't seem to fit here, or any Soulslike or actual Souls game. You got to respect every enemy, and treat them all like a serious threat or you will suffer. People really consider the regular enemies in Souls/Borne games as "trash mobs"?
 
I actually like the reduced focus on bosses. Exploration has always been my favorite aspect of souls games. This is definitely on my radar.

I thought Lords of the Fallen was okay. Not great, not horrible, I had fun with the one playthrough I did.
 
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