The Surge vs Dark Souls: A Detailed Comparison of Structure, Setting & Mechanics
- Thread starter nynt9
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I mean, I don't get this. Taking place in a manufacturing plant, fightin robots gone insane, wearing an exosuit that's entirely customizable, with a horror vibe, is pretty unique to me. I can't think of a game that does this. It's a specifically low-tech scifi that has a gritty feel to it. It's more appealing to me than something like Mass Effect where it's just off-brand Star Trek.
Glass Shark
Banned
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I cant think of a game who is like this really.
It looks like every Halo clone ever stitched together with a Dark Souls combat system.
I skimmed the video, and every time I stopped the guy was saying something about Dark Souls. The Surge feels more like a referendum of what made Dark Souls great, rather than what makes The Surge great. Not a good sign.
Nioh succeeded because it found an identity outside of its combat.
Magic Mushroom
Member
That's not true at all. I mean, of course he talks about DS as the whole point of the vid is a comparison, but he's very positive about The Surge and the way it differs from Souls.
Yet everytime people talked about Nioh and people asked what Nioh was people said. Its a "Samurai Dark Souls" nothing bad about that really.
And in the vid he talks about alot of points what makes Surge just that abit different. The whole loot system with limbs makes its pretty intresting already.
I actually like the look of the games art style. I do wish the environments were a bit more diverse but I actually like the idea and the look of the customizable exosuits. Yeah they're bulky and not flashy but I think that's kind of the point. Whether it works for you or not of course is another thing but I actually kind of like the more rugged and low tech sci fi look this is going for. It helps everything looks pretty crisp and smooth from the videos and streams I've seen which certainly helps.
Then again I'm the person who is as interested in what's going on with the gunnery crew and the people working in the belly of a battle cruiser as much as I am knowing what's going down in the bridge or what the soldiers are fighting. The mundane less exotic and flashy stuff in scifi settings is often my thing.
Then again I'm the person who is as interested in what's going on with the gunnery crew and the people working in the belly of a battle cruiser as much as I am knowing what's going down in the bridge or what the soldiers are fighting. The mundane less exotic and flashy stuff in scifi settings is often my thing.
How many "Halo clones" can you name? I cant think of many that have attempted to provide the combat chess and vehicles provided by that series.
Weltall Zero
Member
Of course it's broader, that's the point: the game isn't. You could have a game with robots AND aliens: why make it only about robots, and such cliched robot designs to boot?
More_Badass
Member
Why not? You could ask that and criticize literally any work of fiction with that mindset. You can do this and this, but why only do that?
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Oh this is from the Lords of the Fallen devs? Will avoid for now, I dont think they really understood what a Souls game is at all (and thats ok, they dont have to, but theyre using DS as a promotional tool, so push back will happen)
Analysis is funny though, yeah, a game where you kill hard enemies in order to make it to the boss. How novel.
Analysis is funny though, yeah, a game where you kill hard enemies in order to make it to the boss. How novel.
Its not only robots. Most enemies are human and also factory workers like the main character.
How do you mean?
d00d3n
Member
I am not sure that I understand the point he is trying to make about trash mobs in dark souls vs stronger enemies in the surge. Minor enemies can absolutely kill you in Dark Souls. You have to play strategically to avoid being overwhelmed and killed. This has been mentioned by fans as one of the distinguishing features of the series from the beginning. But this youtuber "who is a big fan of dark souls games" claims that the surge does something differently here ... ?
Hmm not sure how I feel about this, main issues with gameplay/combat I got from watching that video:
1) It still looks clunky, yes it's faster but it doesn't look smoother. Not sure how I can explain it, like the character is landing attacks that should be missing etc.
2) Typical Western AAA hand holdy information overload. Every time his character walks past something a message pops up.
3) Seems to spend a lot of time chasing the enemies, they dive too far back or too far past him, his attack sends them flying away so he's gotta chase them etc.
4) AUDIOLOGS
Will probably give this a miss unless people start raving about it or I find it on sale, still got Nioh to play.
1) It still looks clunky, yes it's faster but it doesn't look smoother. Not sure how I can explain it, like the character is landing attacks that should be missing etc.
2) Typical Western AAA hand holdy information overload. Every time his character walks past something a message pops up.
3) Seems to spend a lot of time chasing the enemies, they dive too far back or too far past him, his attack sends them flying away so he's gotta chase them etc.
4) AUDIOLOGS
Will probably give this a miss unless people start raving about it or I find it on sale, still got Nioh to play.
I watched some of this and a bit of TotalBiscuit's stream and honestly Surge reminds me more of Let It Die than Dark Souls in many respects, which is good in terms of being more engaging and dangerous moment to moment, but bad in terms of copypasted hallways and a lack of bosses.
Mister Wolf
Member
Like comparing an elephant to an ant.
GodParticle
Member
The weapon variety looks really boring in the surge
Yep...I will rent it though to see how far I can go lol.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
lol no. Nioh has a lot more going for it, especially in terms of combat mechanics.
I am not saying otherwise. People say that Dark Souls gets thrown in with this game and if thats a bad thing. People call did a sci fi Dark Souls when trying to explain it. Just like when people asked what Nioh was. Dark Souls gets referenced, Nothing bad about that really. Just how it is atm with this genre.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Sure, the problem with LotF (and, probably, the Surge) isn't that it's too much like Dark Souls, but more that it apes some Souls things without really doing anything to improve upon them or understanding what made those things great.
Well we dont know that yet really. Must say the whole limb thing is pretty intresting tho and a different idea about it
I've played The Surge for review and found it much easier than any Souls game. Still have yet to beat any of them. So, I don't know? I guess the difference in the mechanics clicked for me better here.
Messofanego
Banned
Hearing that after 25 hours, the world is pretty homogenous throughout this industrial facility and there aren't any surprising vistas or sight-seeing opportunities is certainly a dealbreaker for me cause looking at very similar environments is not going to instil motivation to progress.
Razzorn34
Member
Yet, it fails in repetitive enemies, repeat environments, and lack of unique bosses. If Nioh had more enemies, areas, and bosses, it would have been pretty amazing. The second half of the game feels like a slog since it's just a repeat of the same shit you've already fought for the most part.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Technically Dark Souls falls under the sci fi umbrella as well.
Weltall Zero
Member
So, you're saying that any criticism of the type "they could have done more with this" is intrinsically invalid?
Yes, you can say "why not also do this" of any work of fiction (or inversely, "why do this, when that would have sufficed"), as in, you're physically capable of uttering (or typing) the words. Are you saying that those words are either wrong in every case, or right in every case? I would say that whether these observations hit the mark or not depends on the observation and the work. My criticism doesn't have to be applicable to every single work of fiction, in order to be applicable to one work of fiction.
So yes, I stand by my assessment. From the videos, this is as boring, cliched, barebones and paint-by-numbers as sci-fi settings come. Sure, they're free to go with it, but I'm also free to say as much.
More_Badass
Member
Dark Souls is dark fantasy. How is it sci-fi, unless there are some hints of far-future science fantasy?
SlasherJPC
Banned
This might sound wierd, but there is something appealing to me in The Surge that loves the bleak, factory, industrial look it has. Clean. Yet dead bodies and rogue ai and robots etc. All around. Not having any sweeping vistas is a bit dissapointing but still something clicks with me all considering.
More_Badass
Member
I mean, your critique was literally
Would you ask the same question for Binary Domain or Vanquish? If so, why, and if not, why place a different standard on The Surge?
More_Badass
Member
It's not weird. Games don't often tackle that kind of bit-more-grounded grittier sci-fi unless it's a narrative adventure or rare exceptions like Stalker. Usually go for way over-the-top, cyberpunk, or space opera.
Same, it's appealing to me. The claustrophobic nature of it is really interesting.
I think this is what's turning me off most at the moment and that Lords of the Fallen was just so, so dull.
Looking forward to reviews anyway.
JasonUresti
Member
I enjoyed Lords of the Fallen more than any of the Dark Souls games (but not as much as Demon's or Bloodborne) so I'm interested in this one.
I thought Lords has a great sense of place and atmosphere in the main hub/castle.
Also thought the bosses were ok at best so not to sad to hear this game seems to minimize them.
I thought Lords has a great sense of place and atmosphere in the main hub/castle.
Also thought the bosses were ok at best so not to sad to hear this game seems to minimize them.
Weltall Zero
Member
No, my critique was literally that they went for robots, and cliched robots at that, when they could have gone for more original stuff. You then said that sci-fi is broad and doesn't mean only aliens (which is kind of an odd point to make, but whatever), and I then said a "broad" use of sci-fi would use robots AND aliens, and that this game is anything but broad.
My point is that the game is painfully unimaginative when its competition is bursting at the seams with crazy creature designs. I'm not sure why you keep trying to twist it into something else so that you can poke holes in it.
Well:
1) Vanquish's robot designs shits on the generic power loader and drones of The Surge from orbit. I haven't played BD so I can't comment.
2) Vanquish is a shooter so it makes sense to have enemies that can shoot back. The Surge is a melee game, perfect for all kinds of aliens... and yet uses robots that melee!
3) Vanquish is not aping (sorry, I mean "inspired by") a series of games where horror is a core component. The Surge even seems to be going for horror itself with that CG scene... then pits you agains Amazon delivery drones, humanoid robots (or humans in armor) and Aliens power loaders. Even the boss shown is the least intimidating robot imaginable.
Is that enough or do I need to write a PhD thesis before I'm allowed to criticise the game? And more to the point, if you disagree, why not just state "I disagree, look at this and this, that's creative" instead of trying to weave some strange argument that tries to make criticism itself invalid?
I mean you can go on, and I get that you really want aliens as enemies. That's not what they're going for. So I guess the game isn't for you. You want the game to be something else, and it's not. I mean, that doesn't mean your opinion is invalid, but it's a dead end line of thinking. Not much discussion to be had.
comshoplesce
Member
I fear that browsing through menu will be a mess? 
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yes, Nioh has its own flaws, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything though. At least Nioh also improves on many aspects of the Souls formula, and FWIW, I found the main story levels + bosses to be pretty good, even if not quite on the Soulsborne godly tier.
Huh? You're gonna need to explain that, because... it really doesn't. Souls games are 100% dark fantasy.
Honestly, I found those games to be visually unappealing as well.
Vanquish has an even worse-looking protag than the Surge. xD