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[Pimpwerx]

No shit it's why it's happening. I'm just saying beheading prisoners left and right is a little more extreme than forcing people to be nude and pose in sexual positions. When was someone beaten to death or eaten by a dog... ?

Don't know about eaten by a dog, but some Afghani prisoner was beaten together with "hands and a flashlight". That story was on the new just yesterday IIRC. No, I can't remember yesterday, my memory is that bad. LOL! Damn drugs. But there are supposed to be two CIA contractors in jail for this now.

Let's be realistic about it now. The US is as bad as anyone else. We torture and abuse prisoners as much as anyone. We keep people prisoner without due process. This has all been admitted by the Bush administration. It's time to take off the fucking blinders and face reality. The rest of the world isn't naive, and now has some evidence of what's been going on probably for years now. It looks like it's time to pull the ripcord and start performing damage control on this. PEACE.

 

[Tritroid]

There have been cases of "accidental death during interogation" also when the senators or whomever were allowed to view the photos they spoke of the shot of the guy on the ground naked with the dog at him. They said in the next pictures that were unreleased he was on the ground with massive bites out of him gushing blood. What does that tell you?

Was his head missing?

 

[darscot]

I said in the same ball park. The US is torturing and murdering and so are they.

 

[Tazznum1]

I watched 60 minutes last month and a family showed pics and a death certificate which didn't match up.


He was beaten and he died shortly thereafter. The Death Certifcate was reissued after the family's investigation.

 

[Tritroid]

I said in the same ball park. The US is torturing and murdering and so are they.

I still don't think it is. If we were torturing random Iraqi citizens then yes, I'd admit that it is in the same ballpark.

The people Al Qaeda are kidnapping and executing are just random fricking Americans that have nothing to do with the war at all.

 

[Willco]

I've kept quiet, but I wanted to say something without disclosing too much. My best-friend's father recently worked in Saudi Arabia and was one of the Americans targeted by Al Qaeda. It was an incredibly tense situation over last weekend, but luckily he made it out of the country alive. Paul Johnson was one of his best friends. Apparently, these guys used to all hang out together in Saudi Arabia, which isn't too crazy to imagine as I'm sure there's not too many Americans working for the private sector over in Saudi Arabia. Or at all.

At any rate, this whole situation is really sad. And I feel for his family, as it could've easily been my best-friend's father as well.

 

[Che]

Stop. I said this before, and I was told that there's a difference between war and terrorism. I read it on the internet, so it's definitely true. Now just get over it already. PEACE.

And who defines a terrorist? The americans? That's convenient.

 

[darscot]

Please, multiple organisations have stated that massive numbers of those in the prison were rounded up in sweeps of neighborhoods and are probable completely innocent. The US have admitted themselves of releasing huge number of wrongfully detained.

 

[Tritroid]

And who defines a terrorist? The americans? That's convenient.

Yeah, people who fly passenger planes into large buildings must just be misunderstood. Damn the Americans for their hurtful generalizations!

 

[Hitokage]

I still don't think it is. If we were torturing random Iraqi citizens then yes, I'd admit that it is in the same ballpark.

The people Al Qaeda are kidnapping and executing are just random fricking Americans that have nothing to do with the war at all.

The people tortured in abu ghraib were detainees, people held without being charged just because the military thought it would be a good idea.

 

[Guileless]

Let's be realistic about it now. The US is as bad as anyone else. We torture and abuse prisoners as much as anyone. We keep people prisoner without due process. This has all been admitted by the Bush administration. It's time to take off the fucking blinders and face reality. The rest of the world isn't naive, and now has some evidence of what's been going on probably for years now.

You're being incredibly naive. Dictatorships and police states don't have a free press, oversight to audit their mistakes, or the rule of law to make torture illegal in the first place. We have no idea what specifically goes on in the dictatorships of the Middle East, and we never will. Comparing the US to that is ridiculous.

Americans have been killed in Saudi Arabia for the last 10 years, it didn't start after Abu Ghraib. It just gives them another excuse.

 

[Che]

Yeah, people who fly passenger planes into large buildings must just be misunderstood. Damn the Americans for their hurtful generalizations!

Well I could generalize too saying that people who invade countries for obtaining oil or selling their weapons are terrorists, or people who torture captives are terrorists. You like it?

 

[Hitokage]

You're being incredibly naive. Dictatorships and police states don't have a free press, oversight to audit their mistakes, or the rule of law to make torture illegal in the first place. We have no idea what specifically goes on in the dictatorships of the Middle East, and we never will. Comparing the US to that is ridiculous.

With the press's short-term memory, the republican stonewalling of investigations, and the department of defense's promotion of the use of torture...we aren't doing as well as we could in that regard.

 

[Mashing]

Man, I'm tired of this shit...

Drop a bomb on these fucks... do something.. send in some black ops.

This is one instance where I'd support covert operations... Fuck the US politicains and their fear of pissing off the public... the public don't know shit... go in there and get them fucks...

Blow up half the fucking country for all I care.. .this has to stop

the fucking US is too nice and they are taking advantage of it... they know we can't do anything about it because 1) we don't know where they are and 2) our hands are tied even if we did... too many pussies in this world. They just need to go in there and do what must be done, screw the consquences.

 

[darscot]

Man, I'm tired of this shit...

Drop a bomb on these fucks... do something.. send in some black ops.

This is one instance where I'd support covert operations... Fuck the US politicains and their fear of pissing off the public... the public don't know shit... go in there and get them fucks...

Blow up half the fucking country for all I care.. .this has to stop

the fucking US is too nice and they are taking advantage of it... they know we can't do anything about it because 1) we don't know where they are and 2) our hands are tied even if we did... too many pussies in this world. They just need to go in there and do what must be done, screw the consquences.

Why do you not understand that exactly what you said is the problem. This is why people want to fly building into planes. The whole kill whomever opposes us just dosen't work.

 

[Mashing]

I realize this... morality is getting in the way. I really believe if that if terrorist were shown how savage we could be... it might, just *might* pure FEAR into them (not likely considering they are not afraid to die for their cause). But we can't do that because of politics and the afformentioned reality. I'm on a religious person, so I can condone this kind of action... if I was religious, I'd probalby think differently.

Terrorist do this kind of stuff becuase they know they can get away with it. They also do it because they are not afraid to die... how do you deal with people who are not afraid to die? It's kinda similar to the problem of Japanese kamikazes in WW2. You can't stop them. I'm just really tired of the US's inactions because of politics.

 

[ErasureAcer]

the fucking US is too nice and they are taking advantage of it... they know we can't do anything about it because 1) we don't know where they are and 2) our hands are tied even if we did... too many pussies in this world. They just need to go in there and do what must be done, screw the consquences.

Hitler must be one of your heroes.

 

[Che]

Hitler must be one of your heroes.

lol!

 

[Mashing]

Hardly...

But just for the sake of arguement.. do you think that if he took over the world, terrorist would oppose him?

 

[fart]

what the hell?

 

[Justin Bailey]

***WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS***

Drudge report has pics.

http://drudgereport.com/jp.htm

 

[fart]

typical

 

[Pattergen]

Wow... New low on this forum.

 

[Mashing]

I'm not even going to look at those... has to be disgusting

 

[Ripclawe]

"Men are less hesitant about harming someone who makes himself loved than one who makes himself feared because love is held together by a chain of obligation which, since men are wretched creatures, is broken on every occasion in which their own interests are concerned; but fear is sustained by dread of punishment which will never abandon you." Machiavelli

while this is horrible, its not a new tactic by Al Qaeda, it was used on Daniel Pearl and killing of Americans/Foreigners in Saudi Arabia has been going on for a decade or so. Its being used because they think the west is soft and easily scared, and judging by the reaction by some in this thread, they are right. The whole Blame America first bit is an excuse, the militants are targeting anyone they think are not "muslim" enough. The Saudis are getting hit by the same groups who they tolerated,encouraged and as long it was western targets, they didn't care.

I called it a year ago that this has all the makings of a civil war, The Saudi security forces are full of people that agree with the militants and feel for their cause, so do members of the royal family and government officials.I am not surprised they have been ineffective so far in stopping these terrorists.

 

[Mashing]

Wow, so there is someone here who thinks as I do... thank you Ripclawe

 

[Doth Togo]

Drudge is showing pics of the beheading??!?!?!?!!? God dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Drey1082]

I know this has been debated time and time again, but why the hell did we go for iraq when it was al-quada who we should be concerned with? What's the connection between the two? Why didn't bush just concern himself with al-quada?

 

[Kuroyume]

Drey, this has nothing to do with Iraq. The problem this time concerns a group of terrorists locked in a Saudi prison. I think it's the Saudi governments turn to behead those prisoners on public TV for revenge.

 

[Kuramu]

wtf, they used a fruit knife

 

[Error Macro]

Proven that he was dead when they cut his head off?
Evidence suggests that he was already dead. There was no gush of blood when they hit the jugular and there was no kicking.

Uhh, he was screaming when they started to SAW HIS HEAD OFF. Evidence suggests that he WAS ALIVE.

 

[Mashing]

I'd rather not hear the details of this gruesome act... please spare us all, the link is enough.

 

[Drey1082]

Drey, this has nothing to do with Iraq. The problem this time concerns a group of terrorists locked in a Saudi prison. I think it's the Saudi governments turn to behead those prisoners on public TV for revenge.

I know it has nothing to do with iraq. I'm just saying shouldn't al-queda, an immediate threat, and the terrorist cell that did this, as well as 9/11 have been our main concern??

 

[Incognito]

This is war, and seeing as how America basically lives beyond the laws of war, why shouldn't the terrorists react in kind? Sure, it's a bad thing for the guy and his family, but it is war. Some of you all need to realize that and remember none of this would be happening on a somewhat regular basis had Iraq not been invaded on shaky and shady 'evidence'.

Before some asshole resonds with it, "IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ", it has EVERYTHING do with that. Don't fool yourself.

 

[Error Macro]

I'd rather not hear the details of this gruesome act... please spare us all, the link is enough.

Eh, I was talking about the Nick Berg incident. Not this new one. I won't view any pictures or video either.

Why do you not understand that exactly what you said is the problem. This is why people want to fly building into planes. The whole kill whomever opposes us just dosen't work.

Ummm, how about no? That is not the reason those bastards flew those planes into the WTC. Al-Qaeda had a sworn hatred for "the enemy" since the early 90's. Remember they bombed the WTC in '93? They had the plans to fly the planes into it since 1999.

 

[king zell]

Drop a bomb on these fucks... do something.. send in some black ops.

Blow up half the fucking country for all I care.. .this has to stop

u think this will stop anything?

if u did this then get ready to face a new al-queda in every country..

I hope not everyone think like you

 

[Tazznum1]

Uhh, he was screaming when they started to SAW HIS HEAD OFF. Evidence suggests that he WAS ALIVE.

He was alive then the video was cut...then they showed them cutting the head off. He was not alive during the beheading. Look at the time stamp.

 

[Kuramu]

I know it has nothing to do with iraq. I'm just saying shouldn't al-queda, an immediate threat, and the terrorist cell that did this, as well as 9/11 have been our main concern??

I'd argue that, by your logic, police should ignore rapists because murderers are a bigger threat.

besides:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/saddam.terror/index.html

"I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said

 

[fart]

the best part of this thread is the avatars of the usa-cheerleader squad

 

[Tazznum1]

information that official organs

organs?

 

[Guileless]

Some of you all need to realize that and remember none of this would be happening on a somewhat regular basis had Iraq not been invaded on shaky and shady 'evidence'.

Yes, if the US had not invaded Iraq then these guys would have been mowing their lawn or going to the Jeddeh Rotary Club instead of killing people. Terrorists from Saudi Arabia were killing Americans before the invasion of Iraq. I don't care if a terrorist goes from a 9 on the "wanting to kill random Americans" scale to a 10. Unless they're at zero, they're wasting their lives and potentially ours.

 

[Tazznum1]

We're f*cked.


(collectively worldwide)

 

[Ripclawe]

This is war, and seeing as how America basically lives beyond the laws of war, why shouldn't the terrorists react in kind? Sure, it's a bad thing for the guy and his family, but it is war. Some of you all need to realize that and remember none of this would be happening on a somewhat regular basis had Iraq not been invaded on shaky and shady 'evidence'.

Before some asshole resonds with it, "IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ", it has EVERYTHING do with that. Don't fool yourself.

This has to do with them wanting the Saudis to release their Al Qaeda brothers from jail. I do like the fact you say the terrorists are reacting to America instead of they are terrorists doing what terrorists do. The Blame America rationalizing is typical. The fact Islamic terrorism has been going on for decades seems to slip, everything happens because of Iraq. nonsense.

 

[Incognito]

Yes, if the US had not invaded Iraq then these guys would have been mowing their lawn or going to the Jeddeh Rotary Club instead of killing people. Terrorists from Saudi Arabia were killing Americans before the invasion of Iraq. I don't care if a terrorist goes from a 9 on the "wanting to kill random Americans" scale to a 10. Unless they're at zero, they're wasting their lives and potentially ours.

I'm sure no Saudi nationals are killed by our military. *cough*

 

[fart]

one could probably fill a few books with the actions of the saudi royalty we support there as well

 

[Cooter]

beheading is murder, a crime
but so is bombing civilian houses
when you start excusing one with the word "oops", you start to decriminalize the other

The hate on this forum is unnerving.

Maybe if the US military was randomly blowing up innocent peoples house you might have a point but they are not.

To sit here and see you justify this gruesome act sends chills up my spine.

 

[Incognito]

This has to do with them wanting the Saudis to release their Al Qaeda brothers from jail. I do like the fact you say the terrorists are reacting to America instead of they are terrorists doing what terrorists do. The Blame America rationalizing is typical. The fact Islamic terrorism has been going on for decades seems to slip, everything happens because of Iraq. nonsense.

Of course they're reacting to America and their policies, Ripclawe. You really, really, really think they aren't? Here's a:

buy yourself a clue and don't vote for Bush.

 

[Tritroid]

Some of you all need to realize that and remember none of this would be happening on a somewhat regular basis had Iraq not been invaded on shaky and shady 'evidence'.

What the hell? You do realize you're talking about Al Qaeda, the group that organized a random assault on American soil and killed over 2000 people? You're an idiot if you think they wouldn't assault any more Americans if the Iraqi invasion hadn't taken place.

 

[Ripclawe]

I'm sure no Saudi nationals are killed by our military. *cough*

If there are saudi nationals in Iraq and not buying stuff on million dollar road and making business deal, most likely they are doing a jihad which means they are targets.

 

[Drey1082]

I'd argue that, by your logic, police should ignore rapists because murderers are a bigger threat.

besides:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/saddam.terror/index.html

I'm not saying ignore, i said main concern. And that article strikes me as strange, since russia didn't even support us in our war efforts. If they had seen a very real and emminent threat, wouldn't they have thought, yeah, mabye this war on iraq would be a good move for you guys. And the article even talkes about how russia and others didn't see the link between al-qaeda and iraq like bush and others did..