Royal_Phalanx
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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
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phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Dammit, I was looking forward to a good hard rebellion in the Lords. I mean, if we're going to do big scary wide-ranging constitutional things, we might as well have done that one as well so we can get it all out of the way.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Haha, I think Brexit might be exciting enough on its own
chromatic9
Member
Blair's speech only has 17k views on youtube and many reporting online or on TV at the time only shown 1-3 minutes of it.
Let's fucking not, eh?
Not over a clause that'd demand we stay in the single market, no. But there's other clauses and votes later, over things like protecting the rights of EU citizens living in the UK, and ensuring Parliament had a meaningful vote at the end of this process. Those are coming on Wednesday, probably.
If the rebellion is going to happen, it'll be over those issues.
Boris and his experts are on it
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/836561097104703488
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/836563045010788353
Not sure how Nissan thinks the UK is gonna stay in the customs union with what May outlined
Nissan doesn't. Nissan just got caught short with non UK non commercial vehicle production capacity so had to stick in Sunderland in the short to medium term.
Double post.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Honestly this feels like a thinly veiled warning from Nissan to May's government. 'Yes we said we'd stay for now, but your position is gonna make us less likely to want to stay in future because of the cost'.
MrMysterio
Member
So I've just discovered this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-latest-eu-national-right-to-live-uk-theresa-may-panic-a7602191.html#commentsDiv
I've been in Scotland for the last 10 years, self-employed for less than a year and have no CSI (Comprehensive Sickness Insurance) (which I have never heard about before).
The UK can now legally throw me out of the country, if they so wish.
*/** If I leave the UK (for vacation or because of my job), upon re-entry to the UK I would commit a crime.
I'm still quite speechless. Not sure what I'm supposed to do now.
* Edit: That's not actually true. Only if I get deported and then try to re-enter would I commit a crime. There is however the legitimate worry that entering the UK as a EU citizen right now will count as an official entry in the country, and might cause legal problems down the line when arguing with the home office about your legitimacy.
** Edit 2: Nope, actually I was right in the first place. Here's an example from the freemovement.org.uk website:
"Anna is an EU national. She entered the UK in 1995 to live with her British husband. She has lived in the UK since then but has never been a qualified person because she has never held comprehensive sickness insurance, at least in the view of the Home Office. She has also therefore never acquired permanent residence.
Anna is considered by the Home Office to have no right of residence and to be living in the UK in breach of immigration laws.
If Anna leaves the UK, for example on holiday, when she re-enters she may be committing a criminal offence under section 24 of the Immigration Act 1971. The Home Office could take enforcement action against her at any time to remove her and she would only be able to appeal from abroad. If she applies for naturalisation as a British citizen she will be refused because she does not have permanent residence. Even if she now becomes a qualified person, for example by purchasing comprehensive sickness insurance, because of what the Home Office considers to be her unlawful residence in the UK, she would be barred from naturalising as a British citizen for at least 10 years because she would not pass the Home Office's good character test."
I've been in Scotland for the last 10 years, self-employed for less than a year and have no CSI (Comprehensive Sickness Insurance) (which I have never heard about before).
The UK can now legally throw me out of the country, if they so wish.
*/** If I leave the UK (for vacation or because of my job), upon re-entry to the UK I would commit a crime.
I'm still quite speechless. Not sure what I'm supposed to do now.
* Edit: That's not actually true. Only if I get deported and then try to re-enter would I commit a crime. There is however the legitimate worry that entering the UK as a EU citizen right now will count as an official entry in the country, and might cause legal problems down the line when arguing with the home office about your legitimacy.
** Edit 2: Nope, actually I was right in the first place. Here's an example from the freemovement.org.uk website:
"Anna is an EU national. She entered the UK in 1995 to live with her British husband. She has lived in the UK since then but has never been a qualified person because she has never held comprehensive sickness insurance, at least in the view of the Home Office. She has also therefore never acquired permanent residence.
Anna is considered by the Home Office to have no right of residence and to be living in the UK in breach of immigration laws.
If Anna leaves the UK, for example on holiday, when she re-enters she may be committing a criminal offence under section 24 of the Immigration Act 1971. The Home Office could take enforcement action against her at any time to remove her and she would only be able to appeal from abroad. If she applies for naturalisation as a British citizen she will be refused because she does not have permanent residence. Even if she now becomes a qualified person, for example by purchasing comprehensive sickness insurance, because of what the Home Office considers to be her unlawful residence in the UK, she would be barred from naturalising as a British citizen for at least 10 years because she would not pass the Home Office's good character test."
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Japanese automakers in general are so boned it's not even funny. Much of their European production is located in the UK, meaning that Brexit is going to create a huge mess for all the involved parties.
Remain in the UK: Get hit with awful tariffs that will kill your already meager sales/profits.
Get out of the UK: Spend a ton of time and money setting up shop elsewhere while leaving a stink in the UK.
It's just a terrible situation all around.
I honestly don't understand how this works.
I would have thought this is completely against EU laws which we are still thankfully bound by.
MrMysterio
Member
There's a lot of info on the Freemovement.org.uk website about the legalities of it all, but my head is currently spinning a little too much to make sense of it all.
I think the main argument here is, is that a right to residency is hinging upon CSI, which literally nobody has ever told anybody about until today, which goes back to being self-sufficient as a criteria for staying in a country.
Funny thing is, is that I just recently became self-employed after a long spell of working for somebody else, and I took it as something to be proud of, and now it just put me firmly on the list of potential deportees.
I think the main argument here is, is that a right to residency is hinging upon CSI, which literally nobody has ever told anybody about until today, which goes back to being self-sufficient as a criteria for staying in a country.
Funny thing is, is that I just recently became self-employed after a long spell of working for somebody else, and I took it as something to be proud of, and now it just put me firmly on the list of potential deportees.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
No it didn't. Don't panic.
Checking here https://www.freemovement.org.uk/comprehensive-sickness-insurance-what-is-it-and-who-needs-it/ ...
You were a worker, and you are now self-employed, and in neither case do/did you need comprehensive sickness insurance.
So you cannot get thrown out (not on these grounds anyway, I don't know what else you have been up to
), and you can go on holiday and come back without committing any offence.MrMysterio
Member
Yeah, you're right - sorry I'm being a bit flustered by the whole thing (actually, this panic attack has lasted 8 months already).
One thing, though, that might be a bit bad for me:
"Who is affected?
- [...]
- EU citizen students (past or present) are also affected where they did not have comprehensive sickness insurance.
- [...]"
I did study in the UK and did not have CSI.
One thing, though, that might be a bit bad for me:
"Who is affected?
- [...]
- EU citizen students (past or present) are also affected where they did not have comprehensive sickness insurance.
- [...]"
I did study in the UK and did not have CSI.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Hello idiots, welcome to reality.
Good, good. These people need to suffer to realise their mistakes.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
So far as I can tell, nothing can be enforced from before mid-2011. If you were registered as a student before that date you should have no problem. There were also transitional arrangement put in place, but I don't know what they are.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Well of course the government hasn't given out any money. We haven't Brexited yet. This is premature scaremongering.
I used to live down in Cornwall until recently (only for 4 years in total, I'm not a native) and despite seeing all the good the EU funding has done for the county (there are literally signs up saying 'This was paid for by funding from the EU'), the place is vehmently anti-EU and I have no clue why.
Just checked the local paper online 'cos obviously this is bad news regardless of how you voted if you live in the county, but there's loads in the comments section who are still full on the Brexit bandwagon..
TBH it makes me sad knowing how much the area needs money (poorest region in the UK) and yet the locals put some ideological crusade ahead of vital funding.
Cornwall votes split by district.
Truro & Falmouth - REMAIN: 28,470 LEAVE: 25,393
St Ives - REMAIN: 21,105 LEAVE: 25,022
Camborne & Redruth - REMAIN: 23,704 LEAVE: 39,827
South East Cornwall - REMAIN: 22,972 LEAVE: 32,067
North Cornwall - REMAIN: 21,669 LEAVE: 31,848
Newquay & St Austell - REMAIN: 22,620 LEAVE: 37,508
Truro & Falmouth - REMAIN: 28,470 LEAVE: 25,393
St Ives - REMAIN: 21,105 LEAVE: 25,022
Camborne & Redruth - REMAIN: 23,704 LEAVE: 39,827
South East Cornwall - REMAIN: 22,972 LEAVE: 32,067
North Cornwall - REMAIN: 21,669 LEAVE: 31,848
Newquay & St Austell - REMAIN: 22,620 LEAVE: 37,508
QuicheFontaine
Member
I was recently informed by a representative of the European Regional Development Fund that the south west is a "developing area" according to EU standards. I was a bit shocked since Bristol seems quite well off, but he said yeah it's basically due to Cornwall.
Regarding the "lack of funding" from the UK govt, what Phi said basically. We're not leaving for two more years, why would they allocate more money now?
Edit:
lol the reactions are kinda telling though
Regarding the "lack of funding" from the UK govt, what Phi said basically. We're not leaving for two more years, why would they allocate more money now?
Edit:
lol the reactions are kinda telling though
The funding is for 3 years beginning 2019, and Cornwall/Scilly got much less than they expected/were pushing for. Now they have to account for that + the loss of EU funding
It's correct to say that doesn't mean they won't get funding from the UK government after Brexit (because the gov haven't actually said anything yet), but its hardly a good indicator that after Brexit the government will suddenly turn on a money tap or something.
I do feel bad for Scilly at least (and Scotland in general really), they did the sensible thing and are still going to get absolutely fucked by all this
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Re: Nissan.
Boned if they do, boned if they don't. Nissan UK may live or die depending on access to the common market.
Anything notable about Truro that would have swung it the other way?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Firms bidding for government contracts asked if they back Brexit
That is... a bit of an odd requirement. It could easily be seen as just another platitude (we want to you do your best!), but framing it as a cultural issue makes it look pretty sketchy.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
To be fair, that advert is for a team to undertake specific tasks related to post-brexit trade, so it is kind of a relevant criterion.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You'd think that "do your best to serve your employer" is implied in any contract. I mean, the description already says as much. It's strikes me as a bit of an odd thing to have there, but what do I know.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well, if I want to hire someone to mow my lawn and two people apply. They have the same lawn mower and give the same quote, but one of them has a deeply and sincerely held belief in "grass rights" and has written several opinion pieces for online blogs in which he says grass should really be free to grow as tall as it wants. That would definitely factor into my decision.
At a guess I'd say because it includes both Truro and Falmouth Universities, also it's the only city in Cornwall, so possibly a concentration of younger people. Maybe a lower number of retirees too.
Things are looking pretty good for Cornwall part 152: Price of pasties go up and it's Brexit's fault
Edit: more Brexit related news...
ITV has reported its worst year for TV advertising since the 2009 recession as Brexit fears caused jittery companies to pull budgets last year.
so you either support leave or you want to completely stop brexit in its tracks?
I thought we weren't meant to paint things black and white.
QuicheFontaine
Member
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it seems perfectly reasonable to me to want to hire people to carry out tasks in the process of "doing Brexit" that actually want to "do Brexit".
I don't see the sketchiness that Funky Papa is talking about - the hiring process doesn't even seem to require positive support for Brexit itself anyway. From that image posted it simply requires commitment to the best possible outcome for the UK following its departure from the European Union. You'd think even people who supported Remain, but reluctantly accept the outcome of the referendum, could agree to that. And then it's only given a 15% weighting in the decision. Price is more important.
If this is the case then why does it even need mentioning?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
You should fire most of the junior civil servants then. They're certainly of the demographic that don't want to "do Brexit".
Exactly, what I see is 'Please join our echo chamber', nothing else.
It's like being skeptical is some horrible thing now. It's a crucial ingredient in politics, you need voices to combat the wave, not more numbers to aid that wave.
Anyone who honestly thinks they can single-handedly stop Brexit is as delusional as the most intense Brexiteers who dream of a WTO deal, best thing to do now is the least damaging Brexit.
QuicheFontaine
Member
"I'm committed to the best possible outcome for the UK following it's departure from the EU" is not exactly an onerous commitment to make...
Edit:
Absolutely, get rid.
Edit:
Absolutely, get rid.
Trade department may have broken EU rules with 'pro-Brexit' contract criteria
Ha! Now that'd be hilarious.
Ha! Now that'd be hilarious.
DarthMasta
Member
What should this purge be called then? DeEUfication?
It's also a sentence that can be interpreted completely differently.
How would Liam Fox interpret it?
How about George Osborne?
Nicola Sturgeon?
I somehow doubt they'll all agree on the same outcome.
FlammableD
Banned
The best possible outcome for the UK after leaving the EU would be to join the EU straight away tho...
In my honest opinion
Also with regards to the gardening analagy, it's more like you've put up an advert to have your garden rescuplted into something new. Your garden is famous, and makes money from visitors, so this is quite controversial, and many gardeners actually believe the the current state of the garden is much better than the new proposed design. They aren't saying it is currently perfect, but better than just ripping out all the flowers and hoping better ones grow back in their place.
However, if a gardener is still willing to do that for you, regardless of their own opinion, you should pick the best gardener right?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Less English retirees. Cornwall is really weird politically. Long-time Cornish tend to be very Liberal (in the old-fashioned sense) and have an abiding hatred for all of the retired couples who see it as quintessential rural idyll, buy up all the housing stock without contributing to the local economy, and the vote for the most NIMBY local councils you can imagine. I imagine the divide on Brexit between working residents and retired residents would be one of the biggest in the country.
Theonik
Member
QuicheFontaine
Member
Ye.......es?
Wait, is the "new proposed design" simply to rip out all the flowers? I'm a bit confused.
I used to work in the Civil Service, and I reckon you could comfortably fire every third person and it would still work moreorless the same.
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