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[Xando]

Eh? But I didn't say the remain side never talked about staying in the single market. It was you who said "everyone always spoke about a soft brexit (norway style) during the referendum" which evidently wasn't true, since the government's own leaflet was clearly about convincing people that a Hard Brexit wasn't in their best interests (an action they failed at, incidentally). All the talk of controlling our borders necessitates removing one of the four pillars which basically necessitates removing them all (lest they not be pillars). I never made any sort of claim about the arguments of the leave side one way or the other.

I should should have clarified that i was talking about the leave campaign. Cameron clearly didn't prepare for anything other than a remain vote.




So if i'm reading this correct Sturgeon basically says Scotland gets single market or Indy2 is on?

 

[Uzzy]

Sturgeon says she will asks Scottish parliament to vote next week for second independence referendum.

Here we go again.

 

[JonathanEx]

Sturgeon setting out a good case, and with more forward thinking than most Brexit conversations so far...

Still, let's throw all the spanners in the works, make this fun.

 

[Protome]

We all knew it was coming. Good chance of succeeding this time too. The fact that support hasn't fallen in polls since the last referendum should scare the pants off May.

 

[cabot]

I suppose it was inevitable, though I'll be forgetting about it until next summer.


My decision relies upon how the UK Government handle themselves.

 

[theaface]

17.5 million people voted to leave - what their reasons and what they new can't really be distilled into a simple check list.

Breaking apart from the European Union cannot be distilled in to a simple yes/no question, but here we are. That's exactly the point - we can argue about why people voted and present evidence and counter evidence but the only absolute (despite being advisory) is the result - a vote to leave the EU.

As such, there is not nor will never be a mandate for a hard brexit. People are simply moving the goalposts to make out the referendum question was something that it wasn't.

 

[Xando]

It will be pretty interesting to see Mays reaction to this. I wonder if she doubles down on her hardline approach and risk helping sturgeon or change to a softer line and hope scotland stays in

 

[Uzzy]

As an aside, should we start a new thread once Article 50 is triggered?

 

[Funky Papa]

As an aside, should we start a new thread once Article 50 is triggered?

A new OT with all the significant information at the top would be fine.

Time to propose some zany titles.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

A new OT with all the significant information at the top would be fine.

Time to propose some zany titles.

Article 50 |OT| Fuck Everything

 

[Halph n Halph]

Article 50 [OT] Deal Or No Deal

 

[gerg]

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

 

[Pixieking]

Article 50 [OT] No Surrender, No Retreat

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

Ah ha!

 

[cabot]

A50 |OT| Castration is Liberation!


y'all need exclamation marks for your titles, we need to sound enthusiastic and behind the Brexit

A50 |OT| Navigating the EU-Bend

 

[gerg]

Article 50 |OT| 'Tis but a scratch... just a flesh wound

 

[D4Danger]

Article 50 |OT| Things are looking pretty good

It has to be this, right?

 

[theaface]

Article 50 |OT| 50 Shades of May

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Article 50 [OT] Deal Or No Deal

Probably has to be this. If we're being entirely serious, we probably should pick a moderately neutral title.

 

[Funky Papa]

Article 50 |OT| 50 Shades of May

Gross.

 

[Beefy]

Article 50 [OT] Who's laughing now.

 

[War Peaceman]

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

really has to be this.

 

[FlammableD]

Article 50 [OT] Who's laughing now.

 

[theaface]

Article 50 [OT] Who's laughing now.

 

[Faddy]

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

If this isn't the title something has gone horribly wrong.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

A new OT with all the significant information at the top would be fine.

Time to propose some zany titles.

Article 50 |OT| There was a tiny flaw in the plan... It was bollocks.

 

[JonathanEx]

I'd like to back:

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

Aha!

 

[Heartfyre]

Article 50 |OT| Things are looking pretty good

It has to be this, right?

That would be a good OT2 title, I think. Since they never will.

 

[Jezbollah]

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

Best here.

EDIT: Both Lords amendments have failed to pass in the Commons. It will go back to the Lords, who will likely not affect it further, meaning the Article 50 bill will get Royal Ascent.

 

[theaface]

Best here.

EDIT: Both Lords amendments have failed to pass in the Commons. It will go back to the Lords, who will likely not affect it further, meaning the Article 50 bill will get Royal Ascent.

Yay! Time to scorch the earth for absolutely no reason! I wonder how history will remember this in terms of most mind-boggling acts of self-harm that a country has inflicted on itself.

 

[JonathanEx]

I'm so sorry I got carried away

 

[theaface]

I'm so sorry I got carried away

When you're pictured with Alan Partridge (a fictional pedant, narcissist and all round bell-end) and have the more punch-able face of the two, you know you fucked up somewhere.

Water way to have a bad time.

 

[Cronen]

My knowledge on politics is somewhat limited, but since Brexit I have tried paying more attention to it all. That said, can someone please explain to me why the Lords' amendments were rejected? From my perspective, ensuring Parliament has a say on the end deal and providing security to EU nationals living in the UK seem like fair and reasonable requests. The latter of which is not only the right thing to do out of principle, but also sets the tone with the EU when it comes to negotiations?

To me it seems like a bit of a no brainier, so I am wondering if I am missing something here? If someone can shed some light it would be appreciated.

 

[phisheep]

Article 50 |OT| Knowing May, Knowing EU

This is perfect. Reading the rest of the lyrics it is even perfecter.

Breaking up is never easy I know ...

 

[mrklaw]

My knowledge on politics is somewhat limited, but since Brexit I have tried paying more attention to it all. That said, can someone please explain to me why the Lords' amendments were rejected? From my perspective, ensuring Parliament has a say on the end deal and providing security to EU nationals living in the UK seem like fair and reasonable requests. The latter of which is not only the right thing to do out of principle, but also sets the tone with the EU when it comes to negotiations?

To me it seems like a bit of a no brainier, so I am wondering if I am missing something here? If someone can shed some light it would be appreciated.

the government doesn't want to support those amendments or be told what to do.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Labour capitulating over EU nationals and a parlimentary vote. *sad trombone*

Throw them in the sea!

Corbyn failed to show up to his own emergency rally supporting EU nationals, as he was inside voting down right-to-remain.

 

[Veidt]

This is appalling.
Imagine growing up in the UK all your life. Educated here. Contributing with pride and love. Falling in love, making a family. Now told you have no rights.

Let's hope the EU rips Brexiteers a new one.

 

[Lagamorph]

The Lords vote on the EU nationals rights amendment is going on right now, results expected in the next few minutes.

 

[phisheep]

My knowledge on politics is somewhat limited, but since Brexit I have tried paying more attention to it all. That said, can someone please explain to me why the Lords' amendments were rejected? From my perspective, ensuring Parliament has a say on the end deal and providing security to EU nationals living in the UK seem like fair and reasonable requests. The latter of which is not only the right thing to do out of principle, but also sets the tone with the EU when it comes to negotiations?

To me it seems like a bit of a no brainier, so I am wondering if I am missing something here? If someone can shed some light it would be appreciated.

Regarding EU nationals, it is not a good idea to give away negotiating points before a negotiation. You might think it will "set the tone" for negotiations, but what really happens is this:

On the parliamentary final say, again it weakens the negotiating stance as the Government will not be able to make final commitments to anything.

This is appalling.
Imagine growing up in the UK all your life. Educated here. Contributing with pride and love. Falling in love, making a family. Now told you have no rights.

Let's hope the EU rips Brexiteers a new one.

Nobody has lost any rights. We're still in the EU. The rights are still there.

 

[Lagamorph]

And it fails this time,

Lib Dems in Lords fail to reinstate the EU nationals unilateral guarantee back into Article 50 Bill by 135-274

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/841399237048958977

 

[Veidt]

Regarding EU nationals, it is not a good idea to give away negotiating points before a negotiation. You might think it will "set the tone" for negotiations, but what really happens is this:

On the parliamentary final say, again it weakens the negotiating stance as the Government will not be able to make final commitments to anything.
Nobody has lost any rights. We're still in the EU. The rights are still there.

You know exactly what I mean. Let's stop the semantics.
The UK is unwilling to start negotiations in morally sound way. This is immoral plain and simple. EU citizens are being devalued and marginalised.
In a way, this shows how desperate the government is; that they are intending on using 3 million people with families and lives here, and who have contributed here, as bargaining chips and effective hostages. It has no other card to play, and it knows. The problem with this card is that the 1 million Britons living in Europe will be treated the exact same way.

 

[Beefy]

@LordStras
Lords now debating Lib Dem amendment to give Parliament a meaningful vote on eventual deal or lack of one.

 

[Lagamorph]

I'm fairly certain it's going to fail like the rights for EU nationals amendment did this time.

From watching the live footage, part of the problem is that half of the Lords are asleep since it's past their bedtime.

 

[Beefy]

I'm fairly certain it's going to fail like the rights for EU nationals amendment did this time.

Mad that Labour agree on basically everything the Tories do.

 

[Lagamorph]

Mad that Labour agree on basically everything the Tories do.

And then Corbyn comes out and immediately starts talking about how Labour need to fight the Tories, but only after the opportunity to fight the Tories has passed.

Vote for the Parliamentary vote amendment is happening right now.


EDIT -

Brexit bill has now passed the lords Unamended.

From the BBC, regarding the Parliamentary vote on any exit deal,

Peers have voted to reject the Lib Dem amendment by 274 votes to 118

 

[CyclopsRock]

The fight against Brexit starts now.

 

[phisheep]

You know exactly what I mean. Let's stop the semantics.
The UK is unwilling to start negotiations in morally sound way. This is immoral plain and simple. EU citizens are being devalued and marginalised.
In a way, this shows how desperate the government is; that they are intending on using 3 million people with families and lives here, and who have contributed here, as bargaining chips and effective hostages. It has no other card to play, and it knows. The problem with this card is that the 1 million Britons living in Europe will be treated the exact same way.

You talk as if this is a simple moral question. It isn't either. It's not simple, because it is not clear what the scope of any such guarantee would be, or that it would be legal or practical to restrict it to those currently resident, or whether it would be unduly onerous to extend it to all those resident at the time of leaving. It's not moral - or at least not purely moral - for two reasons: (a) because it is also political and to do with negotiations and treaties and (b) because no rights have been lost or are under immediate threat of being lost.

It isn't the only negotiating card either. Not by any means. Not even the biggest one (speed and cleanliness of withdrawal is probably the biggest regardless of the details).

Now, I've got considerable sympathy with non-UK EU citizens resident here. But everybody is going to be effected by Brexit one way or another in ways we can't yet fully anticipate, and I don't see why this particular group should get a free pass when the rest of us don't.

 

[Uzzy]

Well, there it is. Theresa May now has unchecked power to decide the future direction of the country for generations to come.

Pretty depressing really.

 

[gerg]

Best here.

EDIT: Both Lords amendments have failed to pass in the Commons. It will go back to the Lords, who will likely not affect it further, meaning the Article 50 bill will get Royal Ascent.

Aha!

I'd like to back:

If this isn't the title something has gone horribly wrong.

really has to be this.

I'm so sorry I got carried away

This is perfect. Reading the rest of the lyrics it is even perfecter.

Breaking up is never easy I know ...

I am glad my suggestion has been so well received! I didn't even have Alan Partridge in mind but rather, as phisheep highlights, the suitability of the ABBA lyrics.

Knowing May, Knowing EU, it's the best I can do...

 

[Chinner]

Well, there it is. Theresa May now has unchecked power to decide the future direction of the country for generations to come.

Pretty depressing really.

What do you mean? In ten years time the UK will be the peak of human evolution, while the EU will be in ruins and have a immigration and Muslim problem.

https://youtu.be/wZ9J-dxEgY4