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[mrklaw]

Cameron talking to the European Parliament and blaming immigration and pushing for immigration controls just makes me sad. Basically whoever gets elected is still a Tory, and is likely to still be euro sceptic and they'll push for immigration controls and get told to fuck off.

It'll just be one big game of chicken and it makes me sick to imagine the conservatives playoff with our lives this way. Although we put ourselves here which is also sickening.

 

[anonymous_abc]

No it will be done to appease both sides. Of the voters.

I bet a lot if that 52% are wishing. Not to leave like this. The actual hardcore leavers would be less.

Maybe the deal worked out before banked on this we stay in the EU fully but retain more autonomy .

What would happen if it was 50/50 vote ?

No way can the EU be in any way responsible for keeping the UK in the EU. They would just continue to be blamed for EVERYTHING.
That's why I also think it is important for the leave campaign to no now be responsible for the negotiations. Let them carry the shit and come back empty handed. If remainers go and do it they will just be blamed by leave for achieving jack shit (which is not more or less than Gove, Johnson and co. could have come back with).

 

[Palculator]

As a non-European, I'm curious about something. Why are so many people in the EU in love with this idea of one big superstate? How does that embrace diversity or sovereignty? Seems logical to me that forming a big superstate and the consequences of that in such a culturally diverse part of the globe would be the eventual elimination of diversity. Why do some countries want to part with their identity? It all seems so twisted. Why wouldn't you all be better off being your own nations, with your own currency, and your own laws? Is the goal to just become the most powerful kid on the block? You'd probably all have formal alliances anyway in military situations.

A large and mostly impossible question but still.

But they are not trying to make countries give up their identity, not at all. And maybe the public's impression thereof would change if they actually bothered to get up and vote for how they're represented in the European Parliament.

 

[Damaniel]

They've gotten 5,000 new paid members since the referendum on a basis that they think it can be reversed. So yes, they're going all in on the Remain camp and I think it will pay off for them.

A little OT, but do you actually have to PAY to join a political party there, or is there just some extra benefit to doing so? In the US, the political parties (ceaselessly) call out for donations from party members, but actually choosing to be a Democrat or Republican doesn't cost anything.

 

[dalin80]

Is there a reason you're insisting this given everything that happened today? It doesn't seem to be based on anything at all.

Because governments are not lefty student types who whine loudly on facebook and then stomp off to their rooms. They talk to each other... constantly. Whether those talks are formal, informal or just the diplomatic equivalent to winks or middle fingers they are constantly communicating.

Cameron talking to the European Parliament and blaming immigration and pushing for immigration controls just makes me sad.

Link to that bit? I have only seen the 20min after dinner discussion and Q+A recently.

 

[dalin80]

Double post, Sorry!

 

[liquidtmd]

Because governments are not lefty student types who whine loudly on facebook and then stomp off to their rooms. They talk to each other... constantly. Whether those talks are formal, informal or just the diplomatic equivalent to winks or middle fingers they are constantly communicating.

Correct. Even though 'no informal talks pre Article 50' has been stated, colleagues and MEPs can heavily infer a lot.

I imagine by the end of this week those involved will know what's going to happen

 

[anonymous_abc]

A little OT, but do you actually have to PAY to join a political party there, or is there just some extra benefit to doing so? In the US, the political parties (ceaselessly) call out for donations from party members, but actually choosing to be a Democrat or Republican doesn't cost anything.

In Germany you usually pay a monthly membership fee of 1% of your income.

 

[jufonuk]

There's no way EU can force a solution though, not when the whole issue with Euroskeptics is sovereignty, and the country voted as it did.
EU is mostly counting on UK coming back pleading on its knees for a free market deal similar to the statu quo (but with loss of many privileges, and certainly nothing that the Leave camp wanted), so that EU can look benevolent but also can say to other sceptics "see ? they thought they wanted to leave but reality caught up".

I think this is happening right now. The deal we get will be seen as a victory for sovereignty. All the leave voters will be all "rule Britannia" back slapping while the remainers will be sighing they are not going down the shitter.

 

[Yahsper]

As a non-European, I'm curious about something. Why are so many people in the EU in love with this idea of one big superstate? How does that embrace diversity or sovereignty? Seems logical to me that forming a big superstate and the consequences of that in such a culturally diverse part of the globe would be the eventual elimination of diversity. Why do some countries want to part with their identity? It all seems so twisted. Why wouldn't you all be better off being your own nations, with your own currency, and your own laws? Is the goal to just become the most powerful kid on the block? You'd probably all have formal alliances anyway in military situations.

A large and mostly impossible question but still.

What's the point of embracing diversity or sovereignity if it makes you completely powerless in world politics? And why do you equal identity with being your own nation? The inhabitants of the EU live better lives because all these countries work together. Military alliances are really just a very small part of it.

 

[pacificrex]

First of all, it's not a one big superstate, it was supposed to become, in a probably distant future, if it's even possible anymore, something like the United States of Europe.

And why would the Unity kill the diversity? Nobody is destroying their identity with this. We work together, no matter what kinda of language we speak, German, English (not so much anymore), French etc. for a better future. It's so nice going where you want without have to show your passport everywhere, wait on the boarders for hrs and hrs. To live where you want, work where you want, it's just better for everyone.

What I'm trying to get across here is that from an outsiders point of view, it seems like the best way to preserve diversity in the world is for each nation and its unique problems to have complete sovereignty in dealing with their particular issues the way those citizens see fit. This would continue preserving all of those amazing and unique cultures in Europe. Nothing would stop nations from having formal or informal alliances in the effort of preventing large scale war from happening again.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Formally negotiate. I think it's safe to say none of us will want to pay the phone bill from the next few months. There is nothing the EU can do to stop independent countries talking to each other it just can't be done in council and if they do try to stop informal talks then all it would do is prove to many that leaving such an organisation is for the best.

They also said yesterday no secret negotiations, they are towing the hard line.

 

[jellies_two]

As a non-European, I'm curious about something. Why are so many people in the EU in love with this idea of one big superstate?

I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with that idea.
Last year I visited an incredibly rich distant relative, they live in Germany. Specifically their summer holiday mansion is in Baden Baden. Their life and this town has not changed because of the EU everyone there lives in a comfortable bubble of privilege. But his business certainly benefits from mobile cheap
labor.
So he would be pro the superstate because it makes him richer, while his private life literally does not change, it remains 100% German cream, nobody else can afford it.
I also know a very liberal academic from Belgium, living overseas now, Belgium is a country that is groaning under the weight of refugees. He is as far from a xenophobe as you can get yet he thinks the EU super state dream is half baked, and damaging. He wasnt surprised to see the referendum results and hopes some good can come of it in terms of adjusting the eu model.

 

[Izuna]

Really? This passive aggressiveness means nothing to me. Implying that I'm not educated on huge world events won't exactly spark a meaningful discussion.

That wasn't what I was suggesting. But I am tired and probably cant have a meaningful discussion right now. As far as I'm concerned though, Cameron said that countries leaving the EU isn't particularly safe and I don't think it's completely unwarranted.

EDIT: Here's some nice pro-EU propaganda beginning at the topic of post-WW2 http://europa.eu/about-eu/eu-history/1945-1959/index_en.htm

 

[Tak3n]

I agree it's strange for the civil service to not have worked on this in some capacity. It is only once side. Leave is at least as much to blame for promising pies in the sky without even the slightest idea of how that might be realistically achievable.

I posted in the last thread, it was believed David Cameron blocked all Whitehall depts doing any exit plans as he feared if it leaked it would undermine his ' sky will fall in' rhetoric

 

[jufonuk]

No way can the EU be in any way responsible for keeping the UK in the EU. They would just continue to be blamed for EVERYTHING.
That's why I also think it is important for the leave campaign to no now be responsible for the negotiations. Let them carry the shit and come back empty handed. If remainers go and do it they will just be blamed by leave for achieving jack shit (which is not more or less than Gove, Johnson and co. could have come back with).

Neither does the EU want to be blamed as the cause of the UK implosion

The kudos and clout they get for sorting this mess out will help them in the long run .

 

[Norwegian_Imposter]

As a Brit in Norway with a Swedish wife I really hope the free movement of labor still happens otherwise my life will just get a lot more complicated (my wife's family live in the uk too so I hope it doesn't fuck with my father in laws uk pension even though he's Swedish)

Argh the whole thing just makes me angry

 

[anonymous_abc]

Neither does the EU want to be blamed as the cause of the UK implosion

The EU is used to the fact that it will be blamed (by the UK) to what happens in the UK either way.

 

[Auto-Reply]

As a non-European, I'm curious about something. Why are so many people in the EU in love with this idea of one big superstate? How does that embrace diversity or sovereignty? Seems logical to me that forming a big superstate and the consequences of that in such a culturally diverse part of the globe would be the eventual elimination of diversity. Why do some countries want to part with their identity? It all seems so twisted. Why wouldn't you all be better off being your own nations, with your own currency, and your own laws? Is the goal to just become the most powerful kid on the block? You'd probably all have formal alliances anyway in military situations.

A large and mostly impossible question but still.

I've never even heard of this "Superstate" before a couple of days (assuming you don't mean what we know as the EU we have as today), I doubt anyone is in love with the idea. On the other hand, I don't really see what this has to do with cultural diversity, that exists even in one and the same country to some degree and I don't see how on a continental level this is in any way threatened by making decisions in unison under the same banner and regulations. We still speak different languages and have our own national food preferences and differences in our dayli behaviour. Then, thinking further ahead, globalization is not something that will go away, we all are forced to come closer together, by sheer number increasement, there aren't even any politics involved. The world population will grow and grow until we find a way to halt it without destroying the world economy or we have to live with this.
These are things that will happen with or without the EU, I think it's reasonable to assume that it will be easier to deal peacefully with these things on a global level inside the EU though.

 

[liquidtmd]

Either way this goes once wrapped, we are going to see a disillusionment with politics and politicians like never seen before.

The way they handled last weekend....my God. They are children. The EU is laughing at them. The business community despair of them. I've always voted since ive been able but now...fuck them.

 

[GamerMax73]

As a non-European, I'm curious about something. Why are so many people in the EU in love with this idea of one big superstate? How does that embrace diversity or sovereignty? Seems logical to me that forming a big superstate and the consequences of that in such a culturally diverse part of the globe would be the eventual elimination of diversity. Why do some countries want to part with their identity? It all seems so twisted. Why wouldn't you all be better off being your own nations, with your own currency, and your own laws? Is the goal to just become the most powerful kid on the block? You'd probably all have formal alliances anyway in military situations.

A large and mostly impossible question but still.

I'd ask again, why should closer political and economic ties automatically lead to loss of culture and diversity? It's a simple principle - decisions made at the most effective level. There are some world problems that can only be solved by working closely with our neighbours. I'd also argue that closer ties in Europe doesn't equate to trying to enforce a carbon copy of the American federal system on the European people. And I point to other parts of the world (South-East Asia, Africa, South America) that are looking to replicate and adapt the European model for their regions.

 

[Aaronology]

They also said yesterday no secret negotiations, they are towing the hard line.

Yes but apparently there are going to be secretly secret, informally informal negotiations and the UK will still get access to slick backroom deals.

Because reasons.

 

[Pankratous]

Either way this goes once wrapped, we are going to see a disillusionment with politics and politicians like never seen before.

The way they handled last weekend....my God. They are children. The EU is laughing at them. The business community despair of them. I've always voted since ive been able but now...fuck them.

Keep voting.

Just vote for a smaller party.

 

[GamerMax73]

The main reason some people are favorable to a federal model is more practical than ideological : it becomes less and less realistic to have 27/28 countries discussing and bickering every time a new crisis arises or a major decision has to be taken.

This.

 

[dalin80]

Either way this goes once wrapped, we are going to see a disillusionment with politics and politicians like never seen before.

A close democratic vote has just changed the shape of the western world, that should empower politics! There may have been low turnout in some age brackets but I think as a whole the UK has never felt so involved. I would expect the next GE's to have the highest overall turnouts in generations.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Correct. Even though 'no informal talks pre Article 50' has been stated, colleagues and MEPs can heavily infer a lot.

I imagine by the end of this week those involved will know what's going to happen

I don't know how you can follow what is going on and possibly think this is true. At the very least the UK needs a new PM. Also, negotiating these deals are extremely complex.

 

[Feorax]

A close democratic vote has just changed the shape of the western world, that should empower politics! There may have been low turnout in some age brackets but I think as a whole the UK has never felt so involved. I would expect the next GE's to have the highest overall turnouts in generations.

That's true, but that's also contingent on everything promised by leave being delivered.

If there was such a mass turnout, and then few to none of the promises made to the electorate are actually put in place, the you'd be crazy to think the voting public will think anything but "what's the fucking point?" for the next decade or so.

 

[HazySaiyan]

No wonder the scum circulation is plummeting. Total lack of any humanity, dirty racist pigs, trying to claim all the abuse is made up. Paper should be shut down like it's sister paper was.

The Sun is the most disgusting piece of 'tabloid' shit going. The British press is a national embarrassment as it is, but The Scum takes it to a whole other level. I honestly have to question the intelligence of anybody who reads it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Neither does the EU want to be blamed as the cause of the UK implosion

External attribution of blame would fall on deaf ears.
This is an Eton mess of the UK's own making.

 

[mrklaw]

Link to that bit? I have only seen the 20min after dinner discussion and Q+A recently.

Just heard it on the news with a soundbite of him talking.

What I'm trying to get across here is that from an outsiders point of view, it seems like the best way to preserve diversity in the world is for each nation and its unique problems to have complete sovereignty in dealing with their particular issues the way those citizens see fit. This would continue preserving all of those amazing and unique cultures in Europe. Nothing would stop nations from having formal or informal alliances in the effort of preventing large scale war from happening again.

Well I think the current concept is to have devolved powers for those areas of law that are varied amongst nations or that need to remain local, and areas of common interest and handled at an EU level. Doesn't seem that different from the federal/state level approach in the US? And a single currency is important to aid free trade without additiona costs for currency exchange. If you have a single currency then you need certain controls in lace at a European level. And if you have a free market with free movement of population then you need common regulations for workers and companies to ensure a level playing field.

I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with that idea.
Last year I visited an incredibly rich distant relative, they live in Germany. Specifically their summer holiday mansion is in Baden Baden. Their life and this town has not changed because of the EU everyone there lives in a comfortable bubble of privilege. But his business certainly benefits from mobile cheap
labor.
So he would be pro the superstate because it makes him richer, while his private life literally does not change, it remains 100% German cream, nobody else can afford it.
I also know a very liberal academic from Belgium, living overseas now, Belgium is a country that is groaning under the weight of refugees. He is as far from a xenophobe as you can get yet he thinks the EU super state dream is half baked, and damaging. He wasnt surprised to see the referendum results and hopes some good can come of it in terms of adjusting the eu model.

External migration is separate from internal migration though. External migration has been something people have ignored for a while until it came to a head with Syria. It clearly seems unfair to force refuges etc onto external border countries, and likewise it isn't reasonable to allow free movement of external migrants inside Europe. So I can't see any other solution than some kind of agreed distribution based on population/GDP etc. That would seem fair to everyone.

Internal freedom of movement I'm not clear on. People seem to think millions of Albanians and polish can just come over here freely with no controls and take all our council houses and benefits. But I'm pretty sure there are still checks and balances to prevent that - I thought you can only freely move if you're coming to work here? With some leeway to look for work. Could be wrong there though.

I wonder if a compromise could be squeezed out around a points-like system. Something to satisfy the 'coming here stealing our jobs' brigade (even though most are coming here to do jobs we don't want to do). So you could have free movement of population (no need for a visa) but you need to come here for work, and it needs to be shown that the job isn't being taken by someone local. But the checks would be really light - eg if the role has been advertised for more than two weeks, or they can show better qualifications or experience. Dunno, just spitballing

 

[jufonuk]

The EU is used to the fact that it will be blamed (by the UK) to what happens in the UK either way.

Negotiating a good deal and helping the UK. Will show to others how good the EU are as I edited in above it will he a win for the EU and boost their kudos.
Plus in the eyes of the western world they will be seen as the chief negotiation and peace keeping organisation

 

[Rektash]

The notion that cultures gets somehow lost in some imaginary superstate is laughable.

There is vastly different culture across every region of every country in the european union right now.

 

[liquidtmd]

A close democratic vote has just changed the shape of the western world, that should empower politics! There may have been low turnout in some age brackets but I think as a whole the UK has never felt so involved. I would expect the next GE's to have the highest overall turnouts in generations.

I hear you, but whilst democratic 52% of the population have just made life invariably worse for the other 48%

People will suffer due to this and I absolutely cannot see an end game that will make this a good decision within my lifetime. Maybe this decision will remap Europe and Britain in 2050 will look back and say 'yeah thank God we did that'

I'm selfish in that for now, prices are going to go sky high and employment is going to be more fucked in the very areas that voted leave. I just want to enjoy my life and my daughter's. I work hard and scrape by. This invariably will affect my QoL and I will understand but never forgive those that followed fucking Farage and Boris under a cover of nationalism and jingoism, nor the political system that asked an incredibly powerful, oversimplified misleading question to the voting public.

 

[Palculator]

What I'm trying to get across here is that from an outsiders point of view, it seems like the best way to preserve diversity in the world is for each nation and its unique problems to have complete sovereignty in dealing with their particular issues the way those citizens see fit. This would continue preserving all of those amazing and unique cultures in Europe. Nothing would stop nations from having formal or informal alliances in the effort of preventing large scale war from happening again.

I'd have to ask what loss of diversity you think there is? Is it merely about each nation's right to impose their own regulations and tariffs on the market and rules regarding the movement of people and other regulations like that? Then sure, some "diversity" is lost, but not in a sense I would take issue with. I'd see member states joining together in these regards to arrive at shared standards to make interactions with each other easier as beneficial and, again, it's not like the nations involved have no say in what standards are arrived at -- who represents whom in the European Parliament is after all directly elected, even though the turnout is rather poor right now.

Otherwise, in the more broad sense of diversity, I don't see how the EU has a diminishing effect on the cultures of its member states. It's not like it's making impositions on their output of art, what languages are allowed or discriminates against certain religions, and so on. Arguably, weaker states benefiting from EU funding has even helped to preserve certain cultures and has thus certainly not led to a loss of diversity.

 

[mrklaw]

Negotiating a good deal and helping the UK. Will show to others how good the EU are as I edited in above it will he a win for the EU and boost their kudos.
Plus in the eyes of the western world they will be seen as the chief negotiation and peace keeping organisation

Nope.

If the UK gets a good deal, it'll be because brave boris forced those siilly Europeans to roll over to our demands.

If the UK gets a shitty deal, it'll be because those damn beaurocats in Europe refused to be reasonable and are fucking us over.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Negotiating a good deal and helping the UK. Will show to others how good the EU are as I edited in above it will he a win for the EU and boost their kudos.
Plus in the eyes of the western world they will be seen as the chief negotiation and peace keeping organisation

American here. The narrative from our media is the UK made a huge mistake. The drop in our 401ks isn't winning any UK support either. The UK is rightly going to get the lions share of the blame.

The UK is fucked.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Nope.

If the UK gets a good deal, it'll be because brave boris forced those siilly Europeans to roll over to our demands.

If the UK gets a shitty deal, it'll be because those damn beaurocats in Europe refused to be reasonable and are fucking us over.

Sounds about right.

 

[jellies_two]

I'd ask again, why should closer political and economic ties automatically lead to loss of culture and diversity? It's a simple principle - decisions made at the most effective level. There are some world problems that can only be solved by working closely with our neighbours. I'd also argue that closer ties in Europe doesn't equate to trying to enforce a carbon copy of the American federal system on the European people. And I point to other parts of the world (South-East Asia, Africa, South America) that are looking to replicate and adapt the European model for their regions.

Closer political and economic ties are generally good (although globalization that rides on that has plenty of critics), but no borders, is something else.

If Australia opened its borders (note: I am 100% for taking lots more refugees than Australia does!) then within a short amount of time the country would be grappling with a million economic migrants from Indonesia and elsewhere. If it (somehow) it absorbed them all successfully, and anyone else who wished to come, year on year, Australia would change dramatically and quickly and whatever past cultural identity it had would be totally changed. From the perspective of an Australian, identity would be "lost". A new identity may be created, but it isn't the same one.

America has to operate a green card lottery to give just a tiny proportion of those who want a better life a chance, if "closer political and economic ties" are a plus why doesn't it throw open its doors especially to South America? It could also start by taking some of those 2m refugee Syrians in Europe but is paralyzed with the idea one might be a terrorist pretending to be a doctor!

 

[Walshicus]

What I'm trying to get across here is that from an outsiders point of view, it seems like the best way to preserve diversity in the world is for each nation and its unique problems to have complete sovereignty in dealing with their particular issues the way those citizens see fit. This would continue preserving all of those amazing and unique cultures in Europe. Nothing would stop nations from having formal or informal alliances in the effort of preventing large scale war from happening again.

Without a formal structure in place, I'd imagine those cultural and national identities would be subsumed by the corporate, consumerist identity. Which is basically American.

One of the objectives of the EU was to preserve national culture in the face of globalism.

 

[HazySaiyan]

So what's the best case scenario at this point (other than not invoking Art. 50)? The EEA? Because we're not getting access to the Single Market without free movement of people, it just isn't happening.

 

[Famassu]

What I'm trying to get across here is that from an outsiders point of view, it seems like the best way to preserve diversity in the world is for each nation and its unique problems to have complete sovereignty in dealing with their particular issues the way those citizens see fit. This would continue preserving all of those amazing and unique cultures in Europe. Nothing would stop nations from having formal or informal alliances in the effort of preventing large scale war from happening again.

Again

1) issues aren't limited to imaginary borders made up by humans. A union of countries is better equipped to deal with a lot of those issues than countries working separately. Having ~one set of rules that everyone (mostly) follows is better in a lot of things than having 20 different set of rules that we try to act around to have even a little bit of cooperation each time there is an issue

2) EU isn't trying to force some kind of One & Only True Culture on its member countries, not now and not even if it became an even closer-knit set of countries (as in, federalized). One of EU's aims is to PRESERVE all of the different cultures found inside its borders, however big or small. Money is used a lot in efforts to try preserve minority cultures & the phenomena/things tied to them. Laws have been made to protect all kinds of unique cultural things inside EU.

 

[GamerMax73]

Otherwise, in the more broad sense of diversity, I don't see how the EU has a diminishing effect on the cultures of its member states. It's not like it's making impositions on their output of art, what languages are allowed or discriminates against certain religions, and so on. Arguably, weaker states benefiting from EU funding has even helped to preserve certain cultures and has thus certainly not led to a loss of diversity.

I don't really want to be seen as taking pot shots at our American cousins (I love you all dearly), but it can be argued that we've lost more culture to American imports than decades of immigration - be it pan-European or from other parts of the Commonwealth. I don't see anyone calling for banning Game of Thrones from UK TV screens (and if they did, I'd break the ban )

Edit:

my comment appears better as a reply to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=208647195&postcount=388

 

[Joni]

There is. If most leavers arguments are you push people around you set the rules etc. In a messed up way just ignoring us and letting us tank and taking others down on the way would show it.

Cameron has no power. He can't negotiate. He will be replaced by someone more hardline. There is literally no point in talking to him.

Other far right parties would be up in arms and wanting out. Discourse will spread and over the next 20 years more will leave and work with the leavers.

The United Kingdom failing knocks the shit out of farright parties, especially the ones that trumpetted the Brexit. if it can happen to the United Kingdom, why would smaller nations make it?

The EU will crumble. .from a business standpoint the EU want to sort this out the best possible way to show we don't lead by fear or lush people around.

Indeed. But that doesn't involve negotiating with Cameron or forcing their needs on the UK. The UK has to take the first step, and it will be up to the new prime minister to do so.

To quell unrest within the EU I am sure they will implement systems to allow nations better deals.

What is the point of the European Union if you can get a better deal outside of it?

 

[liquidtmd]

So what's the best case scenario at this point (other than not invoking Art. 50)? The EEA? Because we're not getting access to the Single Market without free movement of people, it just isn't happening.

Pretty much.

A second ref asking 'EEA' or 'Remain in EU' preferably.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Pretty much.

A second ref asking 'EEA' or 'Remain in EU' preferably.

Good job Britain! Jesus what a shitshow...

 

[Hasney]

Nope.

If the UK gets a good deal, it'll be because brave boris forced those siilly Europeans to roll over to our demands.

If the UK gets a shitty deal, it'll be because those damn beaurocats in Europe refused to be reasonable and are fucking us over.

Only in this country. We'd continue being the laughing stock of the world.

 

[liquidtmd]

Good job Britain! Jesus what a shitshow...

If we survive its going to make the greatest comedy movie of all time in a few years.

 

[TatteredHat]

Negotiating a good deal and helping the UK. Will show to others how good the EU are as I edited in above it will he a win for the EU and boost their kudos.
Plus in the eyes of the western world they will be seen as the chief negotiation and peace keeping organisation

That will only work if the main Leave campaigners are the ones doing the negotiations, otherwise you can bet they will be first in line to call the deal undemocratic and going against the wishes of the UK.

 

[azyless]

Pretty much.

A second ref asking 'EEA' or 'Remain in EU' preferably.

How long would it take to organize a 2nd referendum ? (I doubt it's even in the cards but eh)
The EU isn't going to wait forever.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

The notion that cultures gets somehow lost in some imaginary superstate is laughable.

There is vastly different culture across every region of every country in the european union right now.

Free movement is a good tool to at least dilute the feeling of culture to manageable levels.