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[Atram]

Vodafone seems not amused about the brexit

 

[Chittagong]

FTSE 100 back to January levels
Posted at
08:35
More on the financial markets. Our colleagues over on Business Live tell us that in the opening minutes, the FTSE 100 nudged above 6,242 points - where the index was at the start of the year. It's the first time the blue-chip index has hit that level since the Brexit vote.

Barclays is the biggest riser, with Old Mutual and Lloyds Banking Group also among the highest gainers this morning, all adding more than 3%.

The FTSE 250 is also up about 1.6% at 17,575 points. The companies included in that index are more UK focused than those in the FTSE 100.

Apocalypse averted or dead cat bounce? A bit pissed if pound never hits 1.25usd, have a big order in place.

 

[Xando]

Apocalypse averted or dead cat bounce? A bit pissed if pound never hits 1.25usd, have a big order in place.

Wait until Art. 50 is triggered
Everyone is hoping referendum will somehow be ignored or repeated

 

[liquidtmd]

Apocalypse averted or dead cat bounce? A bit pissed if pound never hits 1.25usd, have a big order in place.

Postponed. The day Article 50 is invoked, it's tanking quicker than it takes to say 'thats a question for the next government'

 

[avaya]

Ok I guess you are trying to get me to say something cringeworthy like tea and biscuits and antiques roadshow and cricket In a country village or some such.

All I am saying is the default operating mode for countries in the world is trade agreements where possible but decide how many people and what qualifications they have at a minimum and in what fields, and how many poor desperate refugees, can be absorbed and integrated per year. In my opinion the world screwing up Iraq and not dealing with Syria and so on and especially leaving Germany to struggle with refugees had made a crisis in the EU that is scaring populations there.

But I am saying that I can understand why half the British people are asking: why can't we operate as a country the way Canada, Australia, Japan and USA to name just a few, do? Why is that now prohibited? when did it become unworkable?

How are you such a simpleton?

Canada benefits from being bordered by the US and is commodity rich.

Australia is commodity rich.

Japan is built on an export economy which is now being structurally eroded by its Asian neighbours while it faces a demographic time bomb.

The US has a 37% non-White population which is growing, much much faster than the UK while also being commodity rich and benefits from an effective 330m single market, it's own domestic market.

That you pick these countries and think why can't we be like them is illustrative. Our relationship with Europe was our future to maintain prosperity and competitive advantage. We have nothing otherwise. Nothing.

The sick man of Europe is now our future.

 

[GamerMax73]

Conservatives? No leader
Labour? Besieged Corbyn who did nothing in the referendum
Lib Dems? Willie Rennie is their scottish leader but ERM...
SNP? They have their heads in the clouds (white paper for independence ref last time)
UKIP? Shudder

Vote Green?

 

[oti]

In other news, Merkel has made it clear that the referendum is "irreversible".

...

I don't want to tell you what to do Brits, but maybe you should vote for the party that definitely wants to stay in the EU come next election. The Lib Dem Zombies.

 

[Hasney]

Apocalypse averted or dead cat bounce? A bit pissed if pound never hits 1.25usd, have a big order in place.

I said in the last thread that it looks like the EEA is looking like the favoured option for actually leaving and if that's the case, the markets will be OK for now. Once companies and banks start restructuring away from the UK, it'll tick back down and if there's an inkling that we're not going to have single market access, it'll be fucked again.

 

[mrklaw]

I suggested Eton Mess... Happy to see it won (probably other suggested it as well)

I listened to Farage yesterday in Brussels.

Sigh its difficult to admit but I couldn't disagree with what he was saying overall. He is a smart guy. I have cone to terms we are leaving, but I can't help but wonder why the conservative party caved in to offering a referendum to stop folk going to UKIP last election, and why they even had it.

We need a real leader here, we need someone who isn't afraid to do the greater good regardless of their own personal view (looking at Cameron who is jumping ship). There is no one in the political spectrum (maybe scottish conservative leader Ruth Davidson) that ticks those boxes.

Conservatives? No leader
Labour? Besieged Corbyn who did nothing in the referendum
Lib Dems? Willie Rennie is their scottish leader but ERM...
SNP? They have their heads in the clouds (white paper for independence ref last time)
UKIP? Shudder

The time wasn't right we have no leaders to guide us through these stormy seas, we need a new election, this is very extreme circumstances.

They though they were going to lose the election and threw the referendum in as a Hail Mary. Well, I'm glad it was worth it for that extra few months as PM that it brought you David. Fucking up the country is a small price to pay.

 

[StayDead]

Holy shit. LOL

 

[sohois]

Ok I guess you are trying to get me to say something cringeworthy like tea and biscuits and antiques roadshow and cricket In a country village or some such.

All I am saying is the default operating mode for countries in the world is trade agreements where possible but decide how many people and what qualifications they have at a minimum and in what fields, and how many poor desperate refugees, can be absorbed and integrated per year. In my opinion the world screwing up Iraq and not dealing with Syria and so on and especially leaving Germany to struggle with refugees had made a crisis in the EU that is scaring populations there.

But I am saying that I can understand why half the British people are asking: why can't we operate as a country the way Canada, Australia, Japan and USA to name just a few, do? Why is that now prohibited? when did it become unworkable?

Why on earth would we want to be like Japan? You do know their anti immigrant nature is a disaster for them?

Canada and Australia both have massive mineral wealth to support their economies. And are you seriously asking why we can't just be like the US?

 

[Palette Swap]

So, has anyone checked to see if Bella Ramsey icould be available as your chief negotiator?

You could all use some Lady Mormont Magic right now.

Edit : haha, nice to see everything is still blamed on the EU.
Don't be surprised Cameron is fucking you when you're so pig-headed.

 

[cormack12]

Still not a dream then?

I think it's very important that a distinction is made between this new referendum. It's best to not call it a second referendum as people will confuse it with a re-run. This new referendum is basically going to ask what we do next. Something along the lines of:

[ ] Stay in EU and modify domestic policies;
[ ] Leave EU, form EEA deal with additional criteria on controlled immigration;

I'm going to estimate there will be a much lower turnout and we'll end up staying if that's the case.

 

[theaface]

.

Brexit vote is the EU's fault. Of COURSE it is.

 

[Crumpo]

But I am saying that I can understand why half the British people are asking: why can't we operate as a country the way Canada, Australia, Japan and USA to name just a few, do? Why is that now prohibited? when did it become unworkable?

Why don't I have a 5 bedroom house in Sandbanks? Because I am not the same as the peraon who has it; his personal and financial circumstances are very different to mine. That person also has its own problems (see US national debt, Japanese deflation).

These "models" are entwined with the fabric of each country, you cannot just pick and choose the bits of other countries' economic models that work...it is not that simple.

This is the problem, cake and eat it time. Also, read up on the Aussie model-it hasnt worked

 

[Funky Papa]

In other news, Merkel has made it clear that the referendum is "irreversible".

...

I don't want to tell you what to do Brits, but maybe you should vote for the party that definitely wants to stay in the EU come next election. The Lib Dem Zombies.

We all know that Brexit being the EU's fault is going to become a right wing mantra if the country goes to the pits.

Anything and everything bad will be blamed on Brexit. Some business will probably take advantage of it, too.

 

[mrklaw]

What exactly is mass EU migration? I don't think you can just come here and get benefits, so that means they're getting jobs. Which means we have jobs to give them. Which means there is demand not being filled by the domestic population.

 

[Hasney]

Still not a dream then?

I think it's very important that a distinction is made between this new referendum. It's best to not call it a second referendum as people will confuse it with a re-run. This new referendum is basically going to ask what we do next. Something along the lines of:

[ ] Stay in EU and modify domestic policies;
[ ] Leave EU, form EEA deal with additional criteria on controlled immigration;

I'm going to estimate there will be a much lower turnout and we'll end up staying if that's the case.

But 2 is a pipe dream for now. All of Europe is talking about hownwe have responsabilities if we want access to the single market.

We already had special status on immigration. If we leave, we're almost certainly not going to get them.

 

[liquidtmd]

We all know that Brexit being the EU's fault is going to become a right wing mantra if the country goes to the pits.

Anything and everything bad will be blamed on Brexit. Some business will probably take advantage of it, too.

Bigtime. A good year to bury bad business news.

 

[KimiNewt]

Can anyone explain the title to me?

 

[Addnan]

Still not a dream then?

I think it's very important that a distinction is made between this new referendum. It's best to not call it a second referendum as people will confuse it with a re-run. This new referendum is basically going to ask what we do next. Something along the lines of:

[ ] Stay in EU and modify domestic policies;
[ ] Leave EU, form EEA deal with additional criteria on controlled immigration;

I'm going to estimate there will be a much lower turnout and we'll end up staying if that's the case.

People didn't understand what "Leave the European Union" meant how the fuck the will they understand any of that.

 

[Palculator]

BREXIT VOTE IS THE EU'S FAULT

Can anyone explain the title to me?

Eton Mess is a dessert, Eton is where Cameron and Johson went to uni and this is all a mess.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Can anyone explain the title to me?

Eton is a posh school where a lot of British Prime Ministers get educated because they are posh and rich.

Mess is what we are in right now.

'Eton mess' is the name of a popular dessert here in the UK.

 

[StayDead]

What exactly is mass EU migration? I don't think you can just come here and get benefits, so that means they're getting jobs. Which means we have jobs to give them. Which means there is demand not being filled by the domestic population.

Get out of here with your evidence. Clearly all those romanians are coming here and claiming all our benefits from our good hard working people on benefits and sending it back to keep their children in a mansion.

/sarcasm

Honestly, I have no idea. People just like to blame eastern europeans for taking jobs, when British people are not taking them to begin with hence the demand. There was a builder on the radio the other day who was saying he lost out a lot on jobs to eastern europeans, but somehow he still didn't hold it against them and called the racism against them for taking jobs when they work harder than anyone else disgusting.

It's the biggest shock I've ever got listening to the radio, the way he opened it sounded like he was going to carry on with the poor "fuck eastern europe" rhetoric, but his story was quite heartwarming and he said he voted remain and was angry at everyone who voted leave.

 

[ferrasvansen]

What exactly is mass EU migration? I don't think you can just come here and get benefits, so that means they're getting jobs. Which means we have jobs to give them. Which means there is demand not being filled by the domestic population.

Domestic population doesn't like "shitty" jobs like collecting strawberrys, quite frankly a lot of our population are a bunch of lazy fuckers. Things like cleaning the underground in London and such just don't appeal to your average Joe, now though I hope these layabouts are carted into the fields and underground instead of making excuses about no jobs.

 

[avaya]

In other news, Merkel has made it clear that the referendum is "irreversible".

...

I don't want to tell you what to do Brits, but maybe you should vote for the party that definitely wants to stay in the EU come next election. The Lib Dem Zombies.

The hubris. The fucking arrogance is peak cunt levels now.

 

[liquidtmd]

People didn't understand what "Leave the European Union" meant how the fuck the will they understand any of that.

I hear you but a secondary Referendum now in context of the official Leave Campaigns having unravelled and exposed as bullshit would be very telling

Seeing what Boris would spout if there was a second would be fascinating

 

[Juicy Bob]

I hear you but a secondary Referendum now in context of the official Leave Campaigns having unravelled and exposed as bullshit would be very telling

Seeing what Boris would spout if there was a second would be fascinating

Do people genuinely think the result would change that much if we did have a second vote?

Yeah, you would get some Leave regretters do the right thing, but enough to overcome a four point margin?

 

[GamerMax73]

Ok I guess you are trying to get me to say something cringeworthy like tea and biscuits and antiques roadshow and cricket In a country village or some such.

Not at all, just genuinely curious if we're taking the argument to loss of culture - what culture has been lost over the past 100 years?

All I am saying is the default operating mode for countries in the world is trade agreements where possible

See, I'd argue that 1000's of years of world history, culminating in 1944, and looking at nationalistic areas of the modern world, shows that the default operating mode for countries is war over land and resources disputes. I'm not predicting Armageddon or world war 3 - but I am suggesting that bilateral super-national organisations like the UN, NATO, and EU have all had a positive effect on the world. And again I'd point at other areas of the globe looking to mirror the European model.

but decide how many people and what qualifications they have at a minimum and in what fields, and how many poor desperate refugees, can be absorbed and integrated per year. In my opinion the world screwing up Iraq and not dealing with Syria and so on and especially leaving Germany to struggle with refugees had made a crisis in the EU that is scaring populations there.

Are we in danger of confusing refugees and economic migrants? Are we in danger of confusing EU and non-EU migration? Exaclty how bad is EU economic migration compared to the non-EU migration and asylum seekers? Can the refugee crises be better resolved on a unilateral European level?

But I am saying that I can understand why half the British people are asking: why can't we operate as a country the way Canada, Australia, Japan and USA to name just a few, do? Why is that now prohibited? when did it become unworkable?

Because our geographical and political position in the world is different. Because of 40 years of closer European integration. Because our economy and political power on the world stage are not set up to operate in that way and we're already starting to see how painful the readjustment is going to be if we want to refocus the country in this way.

 

[EGM1966]

I'm learning so much about the U.K. from these threads. As a Yankee, the title made no sense to me

I don't think the world blames all of you guys, if that's any consolidation. Just 52% of the population and David Cameron for proposing this crap. At least he fell on his own sword to stop Article 50 right?
There was a lot of drama about Farage's comments to the EU parliament, but I don't see the EU blaming all of U.K. for the view of the UKIP. I don't see his comments weakening the bargaining position as much as some think. Just my take on this from across the pond.

Good to hear as I, like many of my geopolitically aware 48% demographic, might well decide to leave the sinking ship depending how next 6 months plays out.

I'm all for accepting a vote and doing my best to help make the path taken work, but not if that path is a boat trip where too many of the crew are smearing shit on the walls or drilling holes in the boat as we go to possibly succed.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Why don't I have a 5 bedroom house in Sandbanks? Because I am not the same as the peraon who has it; his personal and financial circumstances are very different to mine. That person also has its own problems (see US national debt, Japanese deflation).

These "models" are entwined with the fabric of each country, you cannot just pick and choose the bits of other countries' economic models that work...it is not that simple.

This is the problem, cake and eat it time. Also, read up on the Aussie model-it hasnt worked

What's wrong with the US national debt? Hundreds of years later after introducing those assets to the private sector...the US is one of the most powerful countries on the planet.

I'd say the UK should pay attention and take some notes but their current bank is over 300 years old and has been pretty good at leveraging public debt for quite some time.

 

[cormack12]

But 2 is a pipe dream for now. All of Europe is talking about hownwe have responsabilities if we want access to the single market.

We already had special status on immigration. If we leave, we're almost certainly not going to get them.

I can see us maybe negotiating for some sort of system similar to the non-EU immigrants points system. I would broadly agree that it's probably a pipe dream, but I think that's what we will table. I'm not sure if there can be a temporary piece of legislation applied given the current socio-economic climate in UK.

Of course this then sets a precedent so it's unlikely, but I think this is what will happen.

 

[Alx]

'Eton mess' is the name of a popular dessert here in the UK.

Is it dense and glutinous ? I may be tempted to try it...

 

[ferrasvansen]

Do people genuinely think the result would change that much if we did have a second vote?

Yeah, you would get some Leave regretters do the right thing, but enough to overcome a four point margin?

Give it a few months, job loss announcements, higher prices, higher VAT and loads of bad news will soon turn the tide in massive numbers.

 

[Palculator]

Yeah, you would get some Leave regretters do the right thing, but enough to overcome a four point margin?

It would just be a two point margin, though, since it's a binary system. Every point taken from one side goes to the other, so they just have to take the ~2% from Leave. But it's not going to happen and pretty much all EU member states seem to view the referendum as binding (not legally, just as in having to respect the will of the people.)

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

Apocalypse averted or dead cat bounce? A bit pissed if pound never hits 1.25usd, have a big order in place.

London markets are fiercely remain and as we are are acutely aware the bankers live in their own bubble and struggle to take in the considerations of others.

On the day of the vote the bankers will have been ringing their investors saying "sell, sell, sell, woe is me!"

Today if the investor articles I'm subscribed to are true that initial despair at the banks is actually more positive and investors are being sold a more positive outlook. There has been a definite shift in attitude fairly quickly.

 

[StayDead]

It would just be a two point margin, though, since it's a binary system. Every point taken from one side goes to the other, so they just have to take the ~2% from Leave. But it's not going to happen and pretty much all EU member states seem to view the referendum as binding (not legally, just as in having to respect the will of the people.)

As the Scottish MEP said and was cheered for in Parliment yesterday, it's less against the will of the people to drag Scotland and Northern Ireland out of the EU when they overwhelmingly voted to stay.

It's also going against the will of the other 16 million people who live in the damn country. That's not a majority

 

[Lego Boss]

What exactly is mass EU migration? I don't think you can just come here and get benefits, so that means they're getting jobs. Which means we have jobs to give them. Which means there is demand not being filled by the domestic population.

Yeah but they're taking all the jobs and claiming benefits at the same time.

It's one of the things I could never understand about Camergone's original deal, in that he wanted to limit 'in-work benefits'. Surely it's out of wok benefits we should be limiting. if you're paying tax and working at least you're contributing.

 

[liquidtmd]

Do people genuinely think the result would change that much if we did have a second vote?

Yeah, you would get some Leave regretters do the right thing, but enough to overcome a four point margin?

Honestly...I can't say.

But if it is EEA only going forward, which doesn't address many of Leavers motives, then I genuinely believe there should be a affirmation since (even discounting the regretters) I don't believe many Leavers understood this (rightly or wrongly)

I wanted Remain. I respect if not agree with the outcome but by god I want the nation to be absolutely sure. If we can avert this, I'll be happy. If a second ref if held and the nation still wants out, we've just confirmed and nothing has been lost at this point.

 

[Joni]

I'd imagine that 'having more MPs backing you than Labour' is a pretty low bar to aim for right now. We could probably get the monster raving loony party or the ducks outside number 10 in as opposition using that metric

I'd truest the 'Standing at the Back Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid Party' more than most. Don't mind their party colors.

 

[mrklaw]

Domestic population doesn't like "shitty" jobs like collecting strawberrys, quite frankly a lot of our population are a bunch of lazy fuckers. Things like cleaning the underground in London and such just don't appeal to your average Joe, now though I hope these layabouts are carted into the fields and underground instead of making excuses about no jobs.

sure. And overall unemployment is around 5% so fairly low for us historically. It sounds like people are coming here easily through free movement to do jobs that companies need, that aren't being filled by 'locals' and yet those locals still have jobs too.


Aargh

 

[Zelias]

Do people genuinely think the result would change that much if we did have a second vote?

Yeah, you would get some Leave regretters do the right thing, but enough to overcome a four point margin?

This. I've come across a fair few Leave voters that voted for purely ideological reasons and thought the Leave campaign was crap (or they just ignored it). They still think what they've done is right and they always will, when shit hits the fan they will blame the EU rather than their own hubris.

These people are blind to facts and logic and I don't see that changing. Any attempt to educate them will be dismissed as 'Project Fear' and their position will simply become entrenched.

 

[ferrasvansen]

sure. And overall unemployment is around 5% so fairly low for us historically. It sounds like people are coming here easily through free movement to do jobs that companies need, that aren't being filled by 'locals' and yet those locals still have jobs too.


Aargh

There has been so much gerrymandering of the unemployment figures, I'd imagine it's way over 5% in reality.

 

[avaya]

London markets are fiercely remain and as we are are acutely aware the bankers live in their own bubble and struggle to take in the considerations of others.

On the day of the vote the bankers will have been ringing their investors saying "sell, sell, sell, woe is me!"

Today if the investor articles I'm subscribed to are true that initial despair at the banks is actually more positive and investors are being sold a more positive outlook. There has been a definite shift in attitude fairly quickly.

This is an amazing post.

 

[jorma]

In other news, Merkel has made it clear that the referendum is "irreversible".
....

Is there some context to this? Because i'm pretty sure that decision isn't up to her. Merkel saying that "invoking article 50 is irreversible" would make more sense, but wether to honour a british referendum is surely entirely up to britain?

 

[Matty8787]

As the Scottish MEP said and was cheered for in Parliment yesterday, it's less against the will of the people to drag Scotland and Northern Ireland out of the EU when they overwhelmingly voted to stay.

It's also going against the will of the other 16 million people who live in the damn country. That's not a majority

Yes it is. Just one more than the other side is a majority.

 

[Palculator]

As the Scottish MEP said and was cheered for in Parliment yesterday, it's less against the will of the people to drag Scotland and Northern Ireland out of the EU when they overwhelmingly voted to stay.

It's also going against the will of the other 16 million people who live in the damn country. That's not a majority

Yeah, I agree. Scotland (and by extension the other nations who voted remain) should absolutely look after their people and it feels like the EU agrees with that given how open they are to talk to Scotland. But the "UK" leaving is something they are sure about from the referendum, just what kind of UK leaves needs to be determined, heh.

 

[mrklaw]

In other news, Merkel has made it clear that the referendum is "irreversible".
.

This is our in. We can spin this.

Fucking Merkel - who does she think she is, telling us proud Brits what we can or can't do. Telling us our referendum is irrversible. Oh she'd love that wouldn't she - forcing us out of Europe so nobody can fight for the rights of the little guy. We haven't even enacted article 50 and she's already dancing on our graves. We're British and we can decide what to do ourselves, without bloody Germany telling us. If we want to reverse the referendum we bloody will and here ain't nothing you can do to stop us.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

Give it a few months, job loss announcements, higher prices, higher VAT and loads of bad news will soon turn the tide in massive numbers.

One of our main suppliers, a UK based manufacturer has seen a large uptick in orders and new customers coming on board as well. They expect this to be short term if the pound levels back out. Annoyingly for us our delivery lead times have extended by 3 days because of it.

This manufacturer is actually reasonably happy because they have been wanting to explore markets further afield but haven't been able to.

 

[Spladam]

How are you such a simpleton?

Canada benefits from being bordered by the US and is commodity rich.

Australia is commodity rich.

Japan is built on an export economy which is now being structurally eroded by its Asian neighbours while it faces a demographic time bomb.

The US has a 37% non-White population which is growing, much much faster than the UK while also being commodity rich and benefits from an effective 330m single market, it's own domestic market.

That you pick these countries and think why can't we be like them is illustrative. Our relationship with Europe was our future to maintain prosperity and competitive advantage. We have nothing otherwise. Nothing.

The sick man of Europe is now our future.

Maybe rebuild the navy and get the Empire back together again? The good old days right? Seriously though, I don't think the U.K. will loose it's massive financial services industry, and that kind of makes you important to Europe. It's like the U.S. and China, a destabilized UK is not a good thing for Europe, just as a destabilized U.S. is not a good thing for China.

Domestic population doesn't like "shitty" jobs like collecting strawberrys, quite frankly a lot of our population are a bunch of lazy fuckers. Things like cleaning the underground in London and such just don't appeal to your average Joe, now though I hope these layabouts are carted into the fields and underground instead of making excuses about no jobs.

It's the same here in the U.S., but on a greater scale it's the same throughout history, success brings complacency, and immigrant labor comes in from less developed countries to fill the gap, until they become multi-generationally established and become complacent themselves from the success.
If we banned immigrant labor here like the right wants to do, then the price of our orange juice and strawberries skyrockets, and folks would have to pay REAL money for lawn service.
Success brings the loss of humility, it's just human nature.