Mt Heart Attack
Member
Precisely this. Why would a post-Brexit UK want to agree to such a deal? Seems to go against everything the Leave campaign rallied for.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
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Kadayi
Banned
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx
The UK imports far more from the EU than it exports back (it's a huge market for a wide range of goods for a variety of countries). This notion that the EU would impose massive price hikes and subsequently drive the UK to other markets is fanciful at best. Doing so would damage the EU far more than the UK.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
You do realise we have students come here from all over the world only to be kicked out the second they graduate to go employ their studies elsewhere due to huge visa requirements right?
RedSparrows
Member
It doesn't have to be as close as another referendum to clearly be close. You say yourself 'firmly divided'. It's a tiny minority difference.
The stakes are too high to let the UK get away with leaving the EU without any ramifications, it would be better to lose some of the UK market than to lose control of the EU.
Darkstorne
Member
No, it's not. If less than 1% of Leave voters had voted the other way, we'd have a completely different outcome. And how many voted Leave because they wanted to see that £350 million a week fund the NHS?
My town (Canterbury in Kent) voted in favour of Leave by around 700 votes. That's even closer a percentage split than the overall result. Everywhere else was NOT firmly in the Leave camp.
So still having to follow all the rules of the EU and pay them a sizeable sum of money to access the single market but having zero say in how those rules are created and getting no funding back in return. Seems like a pretty sh*t deal to me, especially after the cushy position the UK was in with all is library of rebates and exceptions.
Given that they're already backtracking and claiming that net immigration might not fall anyway, perhaps they can sell it to their supporters? Who knows.
Boy Wander
Member
Bye then.
Hows the mood for everyone in real life?
For me the previously quiet remain voters are absolutely furious at the leave voters and it seems people become more divided. We're got even more issues on our hand.
Noticeable divide where I am. Everyone is careful around everyone and the problems going on in Parliament right now over whether or not to actually trigger Article 50 isn't helping AT ALL.
hydrophilic attack
Member
So I guess that's just another way in which the UK plays itself through its xenophobia
SymbiantXenos
Member
As long as id get a fried mars bar I'd be cool.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Hows the mood for everyone in real life?
For me the previously quiet remain voters are absolutely furious at the leave voters and it seems people become more divided. We're got even more issues on our hand
I won't see my dad or my step-mother for a while because of it. And on top of that I can't look at my neighbours or anyone else in my vicinity as there is a high likelihood (I'm in the Midlands) that they're leave voters.
It is just something I can't forgive them for (well maybe my dad, but that's a special circumstance).
You're used to saying that aren't you? Bye EU. Bye Europe. Bye to the younger generation's entire future. You should just get a placard and wave that around to save you time.
LOL. Maybe you should consider looking at relative values instead of absolute ones for this. Because the latter doesn't make any sense when you're talking about 60m people vs. 440m.
You mean the people in England that voted out. I am from England and have no problem with it.
That's the trap many Leave voters may have fallen into. We may well see freedom of movement just as we have now, except we lose every other benefit of being in the EU. The Leave campaigns were very dishonest and went on about "taking back control of our borders" which probably won them the vote. In reality things may end up pretty much the same with regards to immigration.
And let's not forget, Norway would otherwise be an EU member if they had voted so in their last referendum. That was a narrow 'No' vote. Their position should not be seen as desirable in my opinion, they are in that situation not because it's the best, but because they voted that way. They are even part of Schengen. But no say over EU matters.
They won't. And the country isn't going to fail like you so desperately want it to.
God forbid they have their own voice and opinion, oh no, they should live their lives by what you want.
Well they did manage to sell Snake oil.
Darkstorne
Member
As much as 75% of young people wanted to Remain. That's why so many people in this thread are overly bitter about old people. It's not like this was a 52/48 split between the population as a whole. It was a clear split between age groups. And it's the younger age groups who wanted to remain that have to struggle through the fallout created by the older people who wanted to leave.
In raw terms you're quite correct. As a percentage of GDP it's a very different picture - 45% for the UK, 16% for the EU.
Edit: It's not raw GDP but foreign trade. 45% of our foreign trade goes to the EU whereas 16% of EU foreign trade comes to the UK.
...huh? Not even Leavers expected a better EU deal after leaving EU. They basically wanted to get rid of immigrants at all cost. Or they have this fantasy they'll be better off long term alone.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Anti universal suffrage movements are the future.
That would be so ridiculous. So you want pretty much the situation you have before Brexit but getting Schengen, no veto nor vote on key decissions?
So smart lol
We're avoiding my wife's parents. Someone at work had a very public falling out with their parents on FB.
Mood walking around is muted, although being in a town with an older demographic (Bournemouth) I now feel hostile seeing older people around. I feel like a stranger in my home town.
It's not the big players, it includes belgium, luxembourg and the netherlands.
The big picture here is what you (and a lot of your fellow leavers) ignore. The trade between UK and EU doesn't exists in isolation. But even touching that you ignore how much the said trade weights in the total trade of the involved parties.
The big picture here is that whatever is to gain from trade is so much less than what would be lost from EU losing its purpose.
But don't let me stop from dreaming.
Becoming a schengen area actually means even looser borders in theory.
Which is why it's ironical since immigration was one of the most important pointers used by Leave campaigns.
Not to mention they will still keep paying to the EU and following their regulations, except this time they actually don't get a say in it.
Everyone knows the English love irony.
Mt Heart Attack
Member
It's not only immigration, it's also about contributing to the EU budget, which Norway is doing, and applying EU law. That's literally all the Leave voters voted against.
How can you possibly sell that? That'd be going back to square one, and then some.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Ignorant people who can't be bothered to educate themselves before making such a monumentally huge decision are not worthy of discourse.
Carl2291
Member
Scotland's Remain vote won by 650k votes, so Leave would have done even better.
Heckler456
Banned
That's the thing do, does the agenda of the "leave campaign" actually matter one single iota? The actual referendum isn't even legally binding, and it's not as if the country is literally split in two and every single given issue. So why would the people in government who are the ones who are actually going to have to make this agreement even take into account this anti-immigration stance of this so called "leave campaign"?
nature boy
Member
Oh, IMO there's going to be a lot of backtracking, simply because they don't have a clue how this will work out, but it just shows how misinformed everyone was.
And the legislative mess is another issue (reversing all the EU directives).
Despite what the Express' and the Andrew Neil's of the UK might tell you it's going to be a big fat mess if they go all-in or if they backtrack on some principles.
The uncertainty is going to hurt a lot of businesses in the UK (as some here have already demonstrated).
Darkstorne
Member
This. No one is seriously saying we won't have access any more. What we are saying is we're going to pay for it. We'll likely work out having similar EU laws and trade access as we did before, at a much higher cost, with none of the say for what goes on inside the EU, and much less EU funding.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
Cool. I mean, they'll want to do a deal with the EU first since there's much bigger benefits, but once they get around to us we'll be very happy.
As a Remain voter, I regard it as better than the alternative.
Hows the mood for everyone in real life?
For me the previously quiet remain voters are absolutely furious at the leave voters and it seems people have become more divided. We're got even more issues on our hand
In London here: shock and disbelief initially turning to anger it seems. The nation is going to be in a pretty awkward position as a result of this. I don't think it's something that's going to go away quietly especially with it being such a long, drawn out process.
CharmingCharlie
Member
It doesn't really matter whether it is a shitty deal or not. If the UK wants to stay in the EU now then we have to make MAJOR concessions to the EU. There is no going back to what we had before.
Kadayi
Banned
Collectively is irrelevant. There's absolutely no way punitive measures would get sanctioned because it's not in the interest of the likes of Germany or France to undermine their personal markets. And as other have said the EU isn't the only market.
Same.
Perhaps they were educated?
Fact: if we stay in the EU we'll continue to have high eastern european immigration. Fact: if we leavethere is opportunity to reduce/stop that.
I'm not saying that's good, and I'm also wary of what the future holds, but lots of people knew exactly what they were getting out of voting leave, and they're happy with their vote.
I suppose a lot of people think you're uneducated and ignorant about your choice as well. At the end of the day you have to respect that everyone's vote counts and this isn't as black and white as you make it out.
Giving us Norway's deal is not punishment, it's what the Leave campaign evoked and the EU are not going to give us any more than that.
That's the point, it's factually a worse deal than what we had before.
Don't forget 'bye, Scotland'!
Yeah, there's quite a large feeling here right now that by the time the GE comes around, they're pretty much single issue voters that will vote for parties that want to get closer to Europe again. Wonder if that will last though.
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