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[Hasney]

Mate I love it. Better than 3 IMO #shitbrexiterssay

And if this doesn't show that Leave voters are mis-informed, what will?!

Spoiler

;D

 

[JP_]

Can someone please ELI5 everything about article 50? What is it? Why should Britain invoke/not invoke it?

The referendum is not binding -- they're still in EU until they invoke article 50. Article 50 is the formal process of leaving EU and can take up to 2 years.

 

[nOoblet16]

Same, I am looking to leave England and move back to Scotland.



What's the Norway Model?

1) Paid access to single market
2) Part of the schengen area so has freedom of movement.
3) But at the cost of having to follow EU regulations on which they have zero influence.

So pretty much the things that Leave camp promised to do away with...except right now they do have influence but the UK MEPs just spent their time until now causing a ruckus rather than getting what they want.

 

[nature boy]

I mean give that you might think that the UK voting to leave the EU is already a ridiculous outcome to this whole situation, in context it becomes a lot less ridiculous.

Well it's a bit ridiculous for the UK to collectively say "let's leave the EU cause immigration and Brussels regulation" but then realize "oh shit, we're in big trouble" and essentially stay in the EU in all but name.

Granted, for those who want to remain in the EU that's possibly the best imaginable scenario, and this uncertainty will be tragic to many people in the UK, but if that were the outcome IMO it's ridiculous because it's just trying to fool the less informed.

 

[| Praxis |]

I can't believe my family. They pretty much all voted to leave, and when asked why immigration is the answer I get. I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for immigration as my dad's side of the family is from (what was then called) Burma. I have never met him or his family, so no idea what they voted, but my whiter than white side of the family must forget, or simply don't care about my heritage.

This whole thing wouldn't be as scary to me, if not for the fact I have an eight month old son. I feel like the choice made yesterday will impact his life much more than the majority that chose leave yesterday.

All you have to do is look at the top ten movie/music charts to know that putting such a big decision in the hands of the masses was a mistake.

 

[Audioboxer]

Mate I love it. Better than 3 IMO #shitbrexiterssay

DS2 is the best of all of them.

Now we know why the leave campaign is off the rails.

 

[Z3K]

Why should we be salty? You are the ones who have destroyed your country: The United Kingdom will cease to exist. Scotland and Northern Ireland will leave the UK. Countless businesses will disappear or relocate. The whole financial sector will move to other EU countries. Your economy was massively weakened. Funding for universities and research will stop. Young, talented people will not be coming to your country anymore in the future, and your own young people will leave. Many progressive laws securing rights for workers and minorities will disappear. What's left is a small country called England (and Wales) with a capital that has completely lost it's importance, a country with a population which consists to a significant extent of racist and old people, uneducated and poor people. I'm not salty. But maybe you should be salty.

Where is all this coming from? The UK's economy will diminish and suffer no doubt and Scotland will leave (something that would've happened eventually anyway) but the country will not become Somalia overnight.

Have people lost all rational thinking or something?

 

[Boy Wander]

Given that this topic is so serious, perhaps we'd benefit from a little satire. A few gems here:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

 

[Alx]

The whole point is that the EU is not the entirety of the world, the UK can start doing deals with other countries, you know the ones that are growing rapidly.

I don't deny that, but we were discussing the terms in relation with the EU, like those Norway currently has.

 

[RedSparrows]

I can't believe my family. They pretty much all voted to leave, and when asked why immigration is the answer I get. I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for immigration as my dad's side of the family is from (what was then called) Burma. I have never met him or his family, so no idea what they voted, but my whiter than white side of the family must forget, or simply don't care about my heritage.

This whole thing wouldn't be as scary to me, if not for the fact I have an eight month old son. I feel like the choice made yesterday will impact his life much more than the majority that chose leave yesterday.

All you have to do is look at the top ten movie/music charts to know that putting such a big decision in the hands of the masses was a mistake.

Don't worry, non-EU migration will be the same as before.

Oh, and so will EU migration, probably.

GG.

Originally Posted by Arksy

The whole point is that the EU is not the entirety of the world, the UK can start doing deals with other countries, you know the ones that are growing rapidly.

What was this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-30bn-in-UK-plc-how-the-deals-break-down.html

Probably annoyed the EU, but still happened. Let alone the deals we already had via the EU. Thrown away.

 

[Joelstinton14]

Not sure if it has been posted yet, but VoteLeaveDerbyshire as had a right go at prominent leave campaigner Dan Hannan's comments over free movement of people last night:

VoteleaveDerbyshire: I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAID MR HANNAN. WE JUST VOTED TO STOP MASS IMMIGRATION. NOW DELIVER FOR US.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

It's started all ready.

For those who missed Dan's comment, he basically said that the free movement of people would be inevetibale post bre-exit.

 

[twobear]

The world will go back to work on Monday, there will be a week of anger then slowly life will return to normal

How many times does it have to be said: we haven't left yet.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Where is all this coming from? The UK's economy will diminish and suffer no doubt and Scotland will leave (something that would've happened eventually anyway) but the country will not become Somalia overnight.

Have people lost all rational thinking or something?

Did I describe Somalia? Can you point out where I did? No, because I did not. Have you lost all rational thinking? What part of my text do you think is false?

 

[SuperSah]

Not sure if it has been posted yet, but VoteLeaveDerbyshire as had a right go at prominent leave campaigner Dan Hannan's comments over free movement of people last night:

VoteleaveDerbyshire: I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAID MR HANNAN. WE JUST VOTED TO STOP MASS IMMIGRATION. NOW DELIVER FOR US.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

It's started all ready.

For those who missed Dan's comment, he basically said that the free movement of people would be inevetibale post bre-exit.

Fucking hilarious with all the egg on leave voter's faces who thought a curb in immigration meant no immigration or a reduction to only 'tens of thousands'.

 

[TheTux]

The referendum is not binding -- they're still in EU until they invoke article 50. Article 50 is the formal process of leaving EU and can take up to 2 years.

Oh I see, thanks.

So why are they not invoking it? What do people want now? Do they still want to leave EU or are they scared to do so?

Or Cameron wants no responsibility?

 

[Tak3n]

Except for the people who got fired, are losing their job in the near future or need to move their families abroad to continue their careers. And for the people missing out on EU subsidies. And the ones being uncertain of being able to continue their work in the UK because they are not a citizen.

But sure, monday is back to normal. Do you really believe that?

I was kind of thinking the news etc, the huge outrage at the moment will subsided as news moves on

obviously I was not clear

 

[IvorB]

The world will go back to work on Monday, there will be a week of anger then slowly life will return to normal

Sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[RulkezX]

Where is all this coming from? The UK's economy will diminish and suffer no doubt and Scotland will leave (something that would've happened eventually anyway) but the country will not become Somalia overnight.

Have people lost all rational thinking or something?

This thread really needs to be archived we can look back and mock posts like the one you quoted in future years.

 

[Audioboxer]

Not sure if it has been posted yet, but VoteLeaveDerbyshire as had a right go at prominent leave campaigner Dan Hannan's comments over free movement of people last night:

VoteleaveDerbyshire: I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAID MR HANNAN. WE JUST VOTED TO STOP MASS IMMIGRATION. NOW DELIVER FOR US.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

It's started all ready.

For those who missed Dan's comment, he basically said that the free movement of people would be inevetibale post bre-exit.

Yes we do want to vote for Derbyshire to leave the country.

 

[DrForester]

Feel bad for anyone who might have been on vacation...

 

[Darkstorne]

The world will go back to work on Monday, there will be a week of anger then slowly life will return to normal

On Monday, yes, I'll be back at work. When we leave, I'm probably losing my job and career as an Ecologist.

Per CIEEM: The immediate focus will be on protecting the economy, however it is vital that we do not let protection of the environment slip under the radar. Not only would that be detrimental to nature conservation, it would also impact those sectors intertwined with environmental legislation such as construction, engineering, farming, water and energy.

 

[Ikuu]

I was kind of thinking the news etc, the huge outrage at the moment will subsided as news moves on

obviously I was not clear

Yea, I'm sure the news will move on in a week.

 

[nature boy]

Man, both major parties in a mess:

Jeremy Corbyn walks off from LGBT Labour #Pride2016 event after shouts of "resign" and "this is your fault"

 

[edbrat]

To all the posters loving the UK punishment, the pain will be for all. Just wait until France has to pay 30-40 % more to EU, the protests and blockades, all those new members joining with cap in hand.

Its a mess for everyone, and anyone thinks otherwise is living in lala land.

Absolutely: punishing the UK to make an example of her means cutting yourself at the same time, German carmakers will be delighted their government is interfering with access to one of their largest markets etc etc. This is not just about game theory (god help us) and trade deals it is real companies and revenues. If EU wants a tear up, everyone loses and those who are still in but somewhat unsure about the whole thing will be pushed further to the periphery if not out altogether. The process won't be pleasant for anyone but if that's the price the EU are prepared to pay to realise a misplaced vindicative power play, then that is their right.

There is a middle ground between full member benefits and a trade war, seems ridiculous one has to point that out.

 

[Mikeside]

Feel bad for anyone who might have been on vacation...

I've been in Greece since Tuesday, going home to Hampshire after the weekend.


I really don't want to go back.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Can someone please ELI5 everything about article 50? What is it? Why should Britain invoke/not invoke it?

It is the mechanism with which a country uses to leave the EU. It is part of the Lisbon treaty (if I remember correctly) and was only shoved in there to keep some Euro-sceptics happy. No one expected to ever use it so it is very vague and not all that well thought out.

Basically if the UK wants to leave we go to the EU and officially confirm we are invoking Article 50. This will then give us a time limit of 2 years to negotiate our extraction from the EU. The 2 year dead line can be extended if all the other countries agree. If an extension is not granted then 2 years after invoking Article 50 we cease being a part of the EU.

As it stands right now we are still full members of the EU, we have not yet begun the leaving process. All that has happened so far is the UK public as "advised" our Government that we no longer want to be part of the EU. Yup that is right the referendum is not even legally binding, the UK Government could go "hmm ok cheers for that brah, but no".

 

[JP_]

Oh I see, thanks.

So why are they not invoking it? What do people want now? Do they still want to leave EU or are they scared to do so?

Or Cameron wants no responsibility?

I mean, the most likely answer is probably "it's only been a day" -- big moves like this take some time to get rolling.

 

[twobear]

'We just voted to stop mass immigration.'

That's weird honestly because it wasn't the question on my ballot paper.

 

[Tak3n]

Oh I see, thanks.

So why are they not invoking it? What do people want now? Do they still want to leave EU or are they scared to do so?

Or Cameron wants no responsibility?

they wont invoke (despite the toy throwing from the EU) until they are good and ready, Cameron can not be trusted to secure a good deal, so that is why we need a new PM, so article 50 will need to wait until then...

of course one of Camerons threats was he would invoke article 50 if leave won immediately...

oddly that is another threat that has not come to pass

 

[Arksy]

People keep saying that a 'worse' deal would be punitive, but there's more to it than that. Countries like Norway or Switzerland have their current agreements with the EU because those were the mutually agreeable terms for trade. Even with the UK's importance for the European market, Britain leaving the union is a sour deal for the other member states for various political reasons, but also because it negatively affects citizens of the various member states. The UK shouldn't expect to get anything it might want without having to make some concessions. With that in mind, matters are not nearly as simple as some would have them.

Don't forget that, even though Germany and France have significant political sway (especially in the European Parliament, since they have large numbers of MEPs), negotiations are made by the European Council, in which each member state has equal representation (and in which even small countries have been able to hold up progress with regards to things like the refugee crisis).

It's not so much about putting the UK in its place as it is about protecting the interests of the EU and its remaining members, which may not necessarily align with the British ones, and which may trump national economic concerns.

It only requires a qualified majority to agree to an exit deal under Article 50.

 

[Vagabundo]

We haven't actually left yet.

Looks like the EU is dying to give you the boot.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

I'll say this as straight forwardly as I can as its been said umpteen times in this thread, there's no punishment or if there is its a side effect of the eu primary concern which is to make the eventual deal with the U.K. so puntative that no other member state would think you know what I'll leave and get me some sweet deal like the uk got

There's no emotion or retribution out of pique behind it its simple politics. The eu needs to make the prospect of leaving so unpalatable that there's no incentive for any other member state to do so. There's a cost to the benefits of membership any exit needs to be made higher than those costs and offer far less benefits. The U.K. Is ultimately going to get a far worse deal to keep a trade relationship open than it currently has as a member. There would be no point to Eu membership if that wasn't the case.

And while the in value terms the Eu exports more to the uk than the uk exports to the Eu. U.K. Exports to the eu make up about 44% of the uks total exports, the European exports to the uk make up about 12% of the eu total exports (about 3% of rEU gdp) and that's shared between 27 countries , put simply they can do without our market far easier than we can do without access theirs.

Which they could if we didn't buy so much damn stuff from them and they didn't buy so little in return.

It's like your best customer leaving your shop and you saying you are going to punch them in the face because you aren't happy as other customers may possibly maybe follow.

 

[Chinner]

they wont invoke (despite the toy throwing from the EU) until they are good and ready, Cameron can not be trusted to secure a good deal, so that is why we need a new PM, so article 50 will need to wait until then...

of course one of Camerons threats was he would invoke article 50 if leave won immediately...

oddly that is another threat that has not come to pass

In your eyes, what would be a good and realistic deal that the UK can achieve?

 

[Ashes]

Calm down everyone. Worrying won't help. There is a chance we may get everything and more.
Screwing Greece is screwing Greece mostly.
Screwing UK - just the thought brought about a $2trillion dollar market shock.

There was a plan. There absolutely was. Just not gonna be palatable to the leave voters.

Some very fine experts will fix this mess, and I am quite happy for Leave to take credit.

 

[Tak3n]

On Monday, yes, I'll be back at work. When we leave, I'm probably losing my job and career as an Ecologist.

Per CIEEM: The immediate focus will be on protecting the economy, however it is vital that we do not let protection of the environment slip under the radar. Not only would that be detrimental to nature conservation, it would also impact those sectors intertwined with environmental legislation such as construction, engineering, farming, water and energy.

Well the fact the Tories slogan is a tree, and they are not anti environment, should give you some hope they don't suddenly reject climate change and the environment

 

[Joelstinton14]

'We just voted to stop mass immigration.'

That's weird honestly because it wasn't the question on my ballot paper.

But it was heavily used as a means to make voters vote for Leave.

 

[Crumpo]

Oh I see, thanks.

So why are they not invoking it? What do people want now? Do they still want to leave EU or are they scared to do so?

Or Cameron wants no responsibility?

The clock starts ticking from when you invoke and when it's up you are out. Any treaty stuff you havent managed to negotiate a replacement for is a gaping hole in your economy.

If you havent noticed there is zero idea on even how to start negotiating so we're in no rush to invoke

 

[SuperSah]

Article 50 won't be invoked.

It was all a ruse to create a weapon to use in elections and against others.

 

[Real Hero]

Well the fact the Tories slogan is a tree, and they are not anti environment, should give you some hope they don't suddenly reject climate change and the environment

lmao, well that settles it!

 

[kharma45]

Looks like the EU is dying to give you the boot.

Great. They can't though.

 

[Tak3n]

In your eyes, what would be a good and realistic deal that the UK can achieve?

umm, not sure I should post it as the members are still very upset, and the last thing I want it a gang hunt, give it a few days for everyone to calm down a little and I will respond

 

[Darkstorne]

Oh I see, thanks.

So why are they not invoking it? What do people want now? Do they still want to leave EU or are they scared to do so?

Or Cameron wants no responsibility?

Because invoking the clause means we're on a time limit. We're out two years from that point regardless of our stability or lack of. The UK government will want to iron out details for favourable separation from the EU first, most importantly retaining access to the European single market.

The EU is trying to force us to start the clock now so they can have the upper hand in the deals. They can then keep saying "no" to our offers until they get the best deal they possibly can (free EU movement, membership fees, loads of other concessions), knowing full well that at some point the UK will have to accept the EU's terms or risk leaving without anything at all.

 

[twobear]

But it was heavily used as a means to make voters vote for Leave.

I know.

 

[Crumpo]

Well the fact the Tories slogan is a tree...should give you some hope they don't suddenly reject climate change and the environment

Lolwat? That's picking shit out of the air, seriously.

Labour are pro-gardening confirmed

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Well the fact the Tories slogan is a tree, and they are not anti environment, should give you some hope they don't suddenly reject climate change and the environment

Except the part where the tories have been terrible for the environment

 

[D4Danger]

Looks like the EU is dying to give you the boot.

We decide when we want to go. All this talk of punishing the UK and making an example of us because we don't want to be in their club is ridiculous. I mean we could just hang around indefinitely which would certainly be worse for the EU if the mood is were going to get a shit deal.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Message from my friend: 'this will blow over next week, we weren't fully in anyway, we didn't even have the Euro'.
Of course he voted leave.

 

[Tak3n]

lmao, well that settles it!

they love dem trees, as long as they dont stand in the way of housing

 

[Ikuu]

umm, not sure I should post it as the members are still very upset, and the last thing I want it a gang hunt, give it a few days for everyone to calm down a little and I will respond

So you have no idea.

 

[TheTux]

It is the mechanism with which a country uses to leave the EU. It is part of the Lisbon treaty (if I remember correctly) and was only shoved in there to keep some Euro-sceptics happy. No one expected to ever use it so it is very vague and not all that well thought out.

Basically if the UK wants to leave we go to the EU and officially confirm we are invoking Article 50. This will then give us a time limit of 2 years to negotiate our extraction from the EU. The 2 year dead line can be extended if all the other countries agree. If an extension is not granted then 2 years after invoking Article 50 we cease being a part of the EU.

As it stands right now we are still full members of the EU, we have not yet begun the leaving process. All that has happened so far is the UK public as "advised" our Government that we no longer want to be part of the EU. Yup that is right the referendum is not even legally binding, the UK Government could go "hmm ok cheers for that brah, but no".

Someone already answered me but thanks anyway.

I mean, the most likely answer is probably "it's only been a day" -- big moves like this take some time to get rolling.

they wont invoke (despite the toy throwing from the EU) until they are good and ready, Cameron can not be trusted to secure a good deal, so that is why we need a new PM, so article 50 will need to wait until then...

of course one of Camerons threats was he would invoke article 50 if leave won immediately...

oddly that is another threat that has not come to pass

Thanks

By the way do British people hate immigrants that much? As far as I understood you don't even have that many migrants coming lol (according to this at least: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911), please correct me if I'm mistaken, I'm just trying to understand your point of view.