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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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M

Micael

Member
Hasney said:
You honestly believe that they would start to properly recover now, 5 days later, with no end or plan in sight and parts of the country wanting to leave and with the chancellor saying we'll need higher taxes and less spending?

giphy.gif
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More than that, after Cameron spend the entire day saying "That's an issue to be solved by the next government", and now with farage in the EU Parliament pissing on fire while shouting "I'm not pissing on you all to see if the fire goes down, I merely want to add insult to injury, just want to make sure you understand that".
 
A

Ashes

Banned
Zaph said:
All of us want the economy to be as minimally impacted as possible, but not all of us are as capable as others at sticking their head in the sand.
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Speaking as a Remainer, I want all the experts to be just plain wrong. Especially if VAT goes up and there are tax rises. I really do not want the poor to suffer. And they will be the ones to suffer.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Why is everyone so obsessed with Labour bollocks.

Give air time to economic correspondents not political. Could not give a shit about Corbyn and in-fighting.
 
T

theaface

Member
Could someone please please please explain to me why news institutions like the BBC and Sky News have to remain strictly neutral in matters of politics, but other forms of the press (e.g. newspapers) are entitled to say whatever they want, regardless of the truth? Or why the ASA can slap down Unilever for claiming your toothpaste will give you visibly whiter teeth in one week, but are powerless to prevent vicious and destructive lies when it pertains to politics?

I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Why the set of rules for one body (television?), but not for the other (written word?). Just because it doesn't always involve naming names, how does much of what the Express and Mail print not constitute slander?
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
StayDead said:
Pretty much exactly my situation.

I've been wanting to live under a purely European government ever since I've been able to vote (8 years). I've never seen anything put through Europe that I've hated. My own government though...
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Don't get me wrong, the grass is never greener on the other side, I'm sure living on the mainland has its own drawbacks and challenges, especially when it comes to matters of culture and race.

But I have always got the feeling that it's more the struggles that come from integration, rather the more tribal "us vs them" that you have over here.
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
Doc_Drop said:
Is there a reason why? some of friends are the same. I feel like I've missed a memo or something
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He pretended to be for Remain but then sabotaged the campaign. Despite having totally lost the confidence of the PLP he is refusing to stand down, totally unprecedented in British political history. Him and his supporters are happy leading the Labour party to a historic loss rather than compromise in any way.
 
H

Harmen

Member
Tak3n said:
This thread is surreal sometimes, I genuinely get the impression that people want the markets to continue to tank as it backs their argument up... god forbid they start to really come back..
Click to expand...

I wish the UK the best, and all the other countries that are at risk due to investments in the UK, including mine.

But just look at the drop of the last few days and the real deal (the actual exit) hasn't even happened yet. And then there is this Farage simply offending the European council, the very same council the UK will have to make extremely important negotiations with in the coming times, with barely any leverage. And they are laughing at him.

Offcourse things could turn out more positive than most here expect, but many are just mentally preparing themselves for the worst, as there are not many signs for things to go very well at this point in time.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
There has to be some kind of future change in attitude when it comes to opposition politics, and on a fundamental level.
This destructive pattern of behavior keeps coming up again and again in every democracy around the world.

The argument that "Things should be done differently but I have no idea how" can not and should not be tolerated as a viable ideological platform.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Tak3n said:
This thread is surreal sometimes, I genuinely get the impression that people want the markets to continue to tank as it backs their argument up... god forbid they start to really come back..
Click to expand...

You seem to be under the impression that there needs to be further vindication of what an idiotic exercise in pointlessness. As if credit rating downgrades, indices down large amounts, with billions in pounds and trillions of dollars of value wiped off markets, and the pound falling so much the UK economy fell below France weren't sufficient.
 
T

Terbinator

Member
Breakage said:
What's even more depressing is ethnic minorities who voted to Leave have helped to create the toxic environment that anyone who looks "foreign" will now have to endure post-Brexit.
I don't see this anti-foreigner sentiment going away any time soon.
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Why would it? For anyone who has grown up on a council estate or in an area outside of Middle-England this has been the norm for since as long as I can remember (I'm mid 20s).

The result has just let more people feel they can come out of the woodwork.
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Not sure if posted yet: http://www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-now-german-woman-hit-by-xenophobia-calls-james-in-tears-132971

Karen moved to Britain from Germany in the 1970s but since Thursday's vote, she's become terrified as she faced a series of xenophobic attacks.

She was in tears from her opening line as she admitted: "I'm so scared now."

From having dog excrement thrown at her door to friends telling her they don't want to see her again, Karen gave a harrowing account of how she now feels unwelcome in the country where she made her home.

"I haven't been out of the house for three days," she sobbed. "My neighbours told me they don't want me living in this road.

"My friend's grandson got beaten up because he had a foreign grandmother.

"I'm so scared, I don't know what's going to happen next."
Click to expand...
 
D

Doc_Drop

Member
Hazzuh said:
He pretended to be for Remain but then sabotaged the campaign. Despite having totally lost the confidence of the PLP he is refusing to stand down, totally unprecedented in British political history. Him and his supporters are happy leading the Labour party to a historic loss rather than compromise in any way.
Click to expand...

So showing forms of having a balanced non extreme view and working on policy and principles rather than concentrating on winning a popularity contest?

But before the referendum campaign what has he done to piss everyone off?
 
D

DerangedHermit

Member
Hazzuh said:
He pretended to be for Remain but then sabotaged the campaign. Despite having totally lost the confidence of the PLP he is refusing to stand down, totally unprecedented in British political history. Him and his supporters are happy leading the Labour party to a historic loss rather than compromise in any way.
Click to expand...

eumeplaughingatfarage.gif
 
W

w1ck3dn1nj4

Member
Ha, who knew the EU parliament could be so interesting? Some highlights:

Juncker to Farage “that’s the last time you’re applauding here”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltokomw4UoQ

Guy Verhofstadt calling out the Nazi propaganda shit by Farage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7IewKT3zlE

Scottish MEP gets standing ovation with “Do not let Scotland down”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kfdZrCc9ng

Twat Farage at his best. The facepalm of the guy at the back towards the end lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40ule97jkRA
 
D

Dorsal Axe

Member
Love Cameron's slightly sarcastic voice in his comments about what he hopes to come from this process.

RedShift said:
Is there any chance of a sort of Denmark-Greenland situation where Scotland, London and Norn Iron can stay in the EU while the rest of the country leaves?

That seems like the best and most democratic solution if it were possible.
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This would be completely unworkable, and even if it was would make things even worse since science business, industry would have no reason to be located outside of these regions. The north would be left to die on its arse.

mrklaw said:
yup, sounds about right. A majority votes to leave to get more control, when arguably we have more control and rights within the EU than any other country with all our negotiated opt-outs etc.

If the UK leaves, with all its silly talk of 'free market', leaves the door wide open for a push for closer political union. I think its a fucking stupid idea because the countries are too diverse to support such a thing and it'll end up collapsing - or run entirely by Germany-France. A free market focus with limited regulation to support that would IMO not only be best for the UK but also best for the EU. A single political entity is a fools errand - but is now definitely going to get a shot in the arm with us leaving.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, Brussels is keen for federalisation (for obvious reasons), but the actual member states have little appetite for it (also for obvious reasons). I don't see it happening any time soon, even with Brexit.
 
J

Joni

Member
theaface said:
Could someone please please please explain to me why news institutions like the BBC and Sky News have to remain strictly neutral in matters of politics, but other forms of the press (e.g. newspapers) are entitled to say whatever they want, regardless of the truth? Or why the ASA can slap down Unilever for claiming your toothpaste will give you visibly whiter teeth in one week, but are powerless to prevent vicious and destructive lies when it pertains to politics?

I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Why the set of rules for one body (television?), but not for the other (written word?). Just because it doesn't always involve naming names, how does much of what the Express and Mail print not constitute slander?
Click to expand...

BBC = publically funded, with parties in power that want them to refrain from pointing out their lies.
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
jelly said:
EU couldn't keep kicking the can down the road.
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What do you think they are doing now? None of the current issues are being resolved. The Greek economy is stuck in limbo for the half a decade with no end in sight.

grumpy said:
I've lived in Greece for most of my life and I wish people like Verhofstad and Junker were in charge.

Greece's problems were created by Greek people and democratically elected Greek governments.
Click to expand...

No they would just fuck it up even more. Verhofstad is a condesending asshole and most of his friends in Greece(Theodorakis, Tzimeros) are the same or worse and lets not even talk of Junker. A hard Neoliberal government wouldn't last a year.
Greeks started the fire. Europeans decided to pour gasoline into it instead of water.
 
Z

Zafir

Member
Doc_Drop said:
So showing forms of having a balanced non extreme view and working on policy and principles rather than concentrating on winning a popularity contest?

But before the referendum campaign what has he done to piss everyone off?
Click to expand...
The issue is the party is split between people like Corbyn who are further left and the blairites who are center left. Blairites don't want Corbyn.
 
K

Khoryos

Member
Doc_Drop said:
So showing forms of having a balanced non extreme view and working on policy and principles rather than concentrating on winning a popularity contest?

But before the referendum campaign what has he done to piss everyone off?
Click to expand...

He dared to express left-wing views in public.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Dorsal Axe said:
Love Cameron's slightly sarcastic voice in his comments about what he hopes to come from this process.


This would be completely unworkable, and even if it was would make things even worse since science business, industry would have no reason to be located outside of these regions. The north would be left to die on its arse.



As I understand it, Brussels is keen for federalisation (for obvious reasons), but the actual member states have little appetite for it (also for obvious reasons). I don't see it happening any time soon, even with Brexit.
Click to expand...
But that's what they voted for? Isolation, independence, make Britain great again (England for the English)
 
B

BrassDragon

Member
shinra-bansho said:
You seem to be under the impression that there needs to be further vindication of what an idiotic exercise in pointlessness. As if credit rating downgrades, indices down large amounts, with billions in pounds and trillions of dollars of value wiped off markets, and the pound falling so much the UK economy fell below France weren't sufficient.
Click to expand...

Maybe economic GAF can answer this: is there nothing a government can do to mitigate these market freefalls? It seems like the leaders are just standing there like deers in headlights.

I distinctly recall a slew of economic measures after the 7/7 bombings using lessons learned from the paralysis after 9/11.

Or is this a leadership/political problem?
 
B

Breakage

Member
Terbinator said:
Why would it? For anyone who has grown up on a council estate or in an area outside of Middle-England this has been the norm for since as long as I can remember (I'm mid 20s).

The result has just let more people feel they can come out of the woodwork.
Click to expand...

The referendum result has empowered the racists, they think the vote to leave grants them permission to force anyone who looks foreign to up sticks and "leave".
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
Doc_Drop said:
So showing forms of having a balanced non extreme view and working on policy and principles rather than concentrating on winning a popularity contest?

But before the referendum campaign what has he done to piss everyone off?
Click to expand...

The issue isn't his views, the issue are his actions:

Less than a month before the historic EU referendum, the team assembled by Cameron to keep Britain in the European Union was worried about wavering Labour voters and frustrated by the opposition leader’s lukewarm support. Remain campaign operatives floated a plan to convince Corbyn to make a public gesture of cross-party unity by appearing in public with the prime minister. Polling showed this would be the “number one” play to reach Labour voters.

Senior staff from the campaign “begged” Corbyn to do a rally with the prime minister, according to a senior source who was close to the Remain campaign. Corbyn wanted nothing to do with the Tory leader, no matter what was at stake. Gordon Brown, the Labour prime minister whom Cameron vanquished in 2010, was sent to plead with Corbyn to change his mind. Corbyn wouldn’t. Senior figures in the Remain camp, who included Cameron’s trusted communications chief Craig Oliver and Jim Messina, President Obama’s campaign guru, were furious.

Even at more basic levels of campaigning, Labour were refusing to cooperate. The party would not share its voter registration lists with Stronger In, fearing the Tories would steal the information for the next general election. “Our data is our data,” one senior Labour source said when asked about the allegation.

In desperation, the Remain strategists discussed reaching out to the White House to intervene directly. Obama had met Corbyn during a trip to London in April, when the American president argued forcefully for Remain. They wondered: Maybe Obama could call the Labour leader and convince him to campaign with Cameron?

Don’t bother, Labour aides told them. Nobody was going to coax their boss into sharing a public platform with Cameron. The idea was dropped before it reached the White House.
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And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".
One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".
A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.
The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.
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It's all well and good saying that there are issues with the EU but on balance you think we should say and then passionately campaigning on that basis. It is NOT OK to say that you are in favour of Remain, saying you will campaign on Remain but then effectively refusing to do so. Yesterday he went and gave a long speech outside parliament, at no point of which did he mention the EU or the results of the referendum! It's because he doesn't care.
 
T

Tosyn_88

Member
So I'm assuming that England hopes to have a trade surplus with India, China, Australia and et al? Let's be real here, the EU is the biggest purchaser of England's exports, to somehow think they can export more to China and India is just trying to walk on water. I mean, do they suddenly reduce the minimum wage to encourage companies to manufacture in the UK? There's so many economic illiterates on the leave camp as far as I'm concerned and they really haven't thought this thing entire well.

Also do leavers realise that removing themselves from Europe systems, they expose the country and others to potential war, yes NATO exist but that doesn't guarantee war within member states, the reason the EU began was to give a concrete deterrent for member states to attack each other because by having each financial systems integrated, Germany cannot attack the UK, it would be an act of self suicide. Even by principle, competition instead of cooperation tends to lead to conflicts
 
M

Maledict

Member
Dorsal Axe said:
This would be completely unworkable, and even if it was would make things even worse since science business, industry would have no reason to be located outside of these regions. The north would be left to die on its arse.
Click to expand...

Without wanting to sound vindictive, and as a northerner born and bred - you reap what you sow. The north voted for this. If anyone should suffer its those that chose this path.
 
M

More Fun To Compute

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Wasn't greeces problems stemming from doing the very exact thing the the English have done? Nationalism over integration?
Click to expand...

No. The problem of Greece is that there was a lot of fraud committed when they entered the union. The leaders were bribed into taking on a large amount of debt of which a lot was spent on advanced military hardware made in Germany which did not help grow their economy.
 
L

lazer_bean

Member
Uzzy said:
So you're perfectly fine with what the EU did to Greece?
Click to expand...

people are quick to forget...
I'm sure a lot of people booing the UK were actually cheering on Greece when they said no to EU.

EU's rejection is strongly associated with being racist which is very short sighted but I guess it comes from people who listen to the news and then just parrot what they 've heard.
 
K

klonere

Banned
Tosyn_88 said:
So I'm assuming that England hopes to have a trade surplus with India, China, Australia and et al? Let's be real here, the EU is the biggest purchaser of England's exports, to somehow think they can export more to China and India is just trying to walk on water. I mean, do they suddenly reduce the minimum wage to encourage companies to manufacture in the UK? There's so many economic illiterates on the leave camp as far as I'm concerned and they really haven't thought this thing entire well.

Also do leavers realise that removing themselves from Europe systems, they expose the country and others to potential war, yes NATO exist but that doesn't guarantee war within member states, the reason the EU began was to give a concrete deterrent for member states to attack each other because by having each financial systems integrated, Germany cannot attack the UK, it would be an act of self suicide. Even by principle, competition instead of cooperation tends to lead to conflicts
Click to expand...

In hindsight this is a very important video on that issue

https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/744588247095984128
 
D

DerangedHermit

Member
Zafir said:
The issue is the party is split between people like Corbyn who are further left and the blairites who are center left. Blairites don't want Corbyn.
Click to expand...

He also asked for Blair to investigate for war crimes due to the Iraq bogus weapons reports thingy which is happening quite soon. Blairites are spinning out of control trying to get Corbyn out asap.
 
D

Doc_Drop

Member
Zafir said:
The issue is the party is split between people like Corbyn who are further left and the blairites who are center left. Blairites don't want Corbyn.
Click to expand...
Aah that explains it better,centrist labour supporters don't want left leaning politics even though that is what labour should be standing for. I never liked new labour or middling politics. Maybe he should fracture and create a social/left labour spin off,the labour party have had their image destroyed over years of idiocy so it would make sense
 
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