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[AuthenticM]

From Al Jazeera

Zionists often speak of a historical bond between the US and the Jewish people, but nothing could be further from the truth.

On May 13, 1939, a boat carrying hundreds of German Jews was not allowed to reach American shores and was eventually sent back to Europe.

That was not a foreign policy fluke.

Three months earlier, in February 1939, members of Congress rejected a bill that would allow 20,000 German Jewish children to come to the US to escape the war and possible extermination at the hands of the Nazis.

The oddity is that the bill was rejected despite the fact that it proposed bringing the children as part of an already existing quota for annual visas allowed to German citizens.

Not only did the Congress shoot it down, but the public had no interest in the matter either, as allowing Jews into the US was quite an unpopular affair.

While these Jews were not always welcome, Zionists were already forging strong alliances in the government and applying pressure on the White House to establish a "Jewish state" in Palestine.

Indeed, the early days of Zionist lobbying go back to the early 20th century, but such lobbying became truly fruitful during the presidency of Harry S Truman to pressure the White House to back the partition of Palestine.

Writing in his memoir, Truman noted, "The facts were that not only were there pressure movements around the United Nations unlike anything that had been seen there before, but that the White House, too, was subjected to a constant barrage."

"I do not think I ever had as much pressure and propaganda aimed at the White House as I had in this instance. The persistence of a few of the extreme Zionist leaders - actuated by political motives and engaging in political threats - disturbed and annoyed me."

Since then, those "extreme Zionists leaders" have grown in numbers and influence beyond anything Truman could have ever imagined.

In their seminal article, The Israel Lobby (which served as the thesis of their book) in the London Review of Books, two prominent American scholars John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt took on the painstaking task of deconstructing the power of the "formal" and "informal" Israel lobby that has grown exponentially in recent years.

They argued that the power of the lobby is now so great to the point that it has largely orchestrated the US war on Iraq in 2003, only to shift following the war fiasco to advocate wars against Iran and Syria; in addition to ensuring that there can never be a balanced US foreign policy on Israel and Palestine.

"So, if neither strategic nor moral arguments can account for America's support for Israel, how are we to explain it?" they asked in their article, offering only one possible answer: "The explanation is the unmatched power of the Israel Lobby."

While certainly not all Jewish Americans are part of or even supporters of the lobby, the massive pro-Israel network managed to sell the idea to many US Jews that their fate is linked to supporting Israeli policy, no matter how destructive or self-defeating.

"Jewish Americans have set up an impressive array of organisations to influence American foreign policy, of which AIPAC is the most powerful and best known," the two American scholars wrote.

According to Fortune Magazine's 1997 issue, AIPAC is considered the second-most powerful lobby in Washington, an assessment that was upheld by the National Journal Study in March 2005.

"The Lobby" also relies on Christian evangelicals who have long advocated the return of Jews to Palestine as to fulfil some biblical prophecy pertaining to the end of times. Historically, Zionists have had no quarrel working with such hate-peddling preachers as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and John Hagee.

Hagee, in particular, has emerged as possibly the most powerful of these figures. His eagerness for the final battle between East and West - Armageddon - led him to establish Christians United for Israel (CUFI).

I didn't know Isreal lobbying was so big. Damn.

There's a lot more at the link.

 

[show me your skeleton]

great article, cheers for this.

 

[Gallbaro]

Anti Semite, thinking there is a grand Jewish conspiracy.

 

[Joel Was Right]

There is a similar documentary that compares the coverage of Israel in America and Europe.

 

[Got]

Anti Semite, thinking the is a grand Jewish conspiracy.

I can't parse this. Can you fix it?

 

[Nivash]

Yeah, sorry, the claim of the "Jewish Lobby" orchestrating the Iraq War raises all kinds of red flags. There's mountains of information out there about the motives of the Bush administration, yet this is the first I've seen where someone tries to pin it all on the Jews. Apart from the neo-Nazis and the other blatant conspiracy theorists, obviously.

I'm not saying it's enough on its own to dismiss the entire piece, but is sure as hell is enough to make me very skeptical about the rest of it.

EDIT: Oh, and it's Al Jazeera too. That certainly isn't making me any less suspicious.

 

[RustyNails]

Yeah, sorry, the claim of the "Jewish Lobby" orchestrating the Iraq War raises all kinds of red flags. There's mountains of information out there about the motives of the Bush administration, yet this is the first I've seen where someone tries to pin it all on the Jews. Apart from the neo-Nazis and the other blatant conspiracy theorists, obviously.

I'm not saying it's enough on its own to dismiss the entire piece, but is sure as hell is enough to make me very skeptical about the rest of it.

EDIT: Oh, and it's Al Jazeera too. That certainly isn't making me any less suspicious.

AIPAC Bristles at Obama’s Reminder of Iraq War Lobbying

Surprisingly, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which plans to spend between $20 and $40 million to advocate against the Iran deal, came out swinging, denying having taken any position on the invasion of Iraq, in comments to The New York Times’ Julie Hirschfeld Davis.

The best source for this, and standing in direct contradiction to Wittmann’s assertion that AIPAC took no position, is Howard Kohr, AIPAC’s executive director since 1996.

In January 2003, The New York Sun’s David Twersky reported:

According to Mr. Kohr, AIPAC’s successes over the past year also include guaranteeing Israel’s annual aid package and “quietly” lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq.”

According to Mr. Kohr, AIPAC’s successes over the past year also include guaranteeing Israel’s annual aid package and “quietly” lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq.”

And that’s not the only instance in which AIPAC’s support of the Iraq War has been reported.

In April 2003, Nathan Guttman reported for Haaretz:

AIPAC is wont to support whatever is good for Israel, and so long as Israel supports the war, so too do the thousands of the AIPAC lobbyists who convened in the American capital.

That same April, The Washington Post’s Dana Milbank reported that AIPAC’s Steve Rosen, serving as a panel moderator during the group’s annual conference, exclaimed, “God willing, we’re going to have a great victory in Iraq.”

Jeffrey Goldberg, writing in The New Yorker in 2005, reported that AIPAC “lobbied Congress in favor of the Iraq war, but Iraq has not been one of its chief concerns.”

In 2007, then-Rep. Jim Moran (D-VA), told Tikkun Magazine that AIPAC
has pushed [the Iraq war] from the beginning. I don’t think they represent the mainstream of American Jewish thinking at all, but because they are so well organized, and their members are extraordinarily powerful—most of them are quite wealthy—they have been able to exert power.”

More at the link.

 

[RustyNails]

I can't parse this. Can you fix it?

It's the same as criticizing Israel makes you anti-semite logic. Criticizing AIPAC makes you an anti-semite too, apparently.

 

[Nivash]

AIPAC Bristles at Obama’s Reminder of Iraq War Lobbying




More at the link.

"Lobbying" is a hell of a lot different than "orchestrating". There were plenty of actors involved. AIPAC and other Jewish organisations included. That doesn't change the fact that the article in the OP straight out claims that the "Jewish Lobby" were in complete control of the war in Iraq - because that's what orchestrate typically means in this context - and are now in the process of ordering the US into even more wars.

That's a claim that goes above and beyond anything I've read from any serious source before and disturbingly much like age-old anti-semitic conspiracy theories. Hence my skepticism.

 

[RustyNails]

"Lobbying" is a hell of a lot different than "orchestrating". There were plenty of actors involved. AIPAC and other Jewish organisations included. That doesn't change the fact that the article in the OP straight out claims that the "Jewish Lobby" were in complete control of the war in Iraq - because that's what orchestrate typically means in this context - and are now in the process of ordering the US into even more wars.

That's a claim that goes above and beyond anything I've read from any serious source before and disturbingly much like age-old anti-semitic conspiracy theories. Hence my skepticism.

The article quotes the American scholars on the AIPAC lobby's influence and in fact, the article pushes back on the notion that every American Jew is in lockstep with AIPAC

In their seminal article, The Israel Lobby (which served as the thesis of their book) in the London Review of Books, two prominent American scholars John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt took on the painstaking task of deconstructing the power of the "formal" and "informal" Israel lobby that has grown exponentially in recent years.

They argued that the power of the lobby is now so great to the point that it has largely orchestrated the US war on Iraq in 2003, only to shift following the war fiasco to advocate wars against Iran and Syria; in addition to ensuring that there can never be a balanced US foreign policy on Israel and Palestine.

"So, if neither strategic nor moral arguments can account for America's support for Israel, how are we to explain it?" they asked in their article, offering only one possible answer: "The explanation is the unmatched power of the Israel Lobby."

While certainly not all Jewish Americans are part of or even supporters of the lobby, the massive pro-Israel network managed to sell the idea to many US Jews that their fate is linked to supporting Israeli policy, no matter how destructive or self-defeating.

Some lobbies are just powerful in washington because their members are well funded and influential over constituencies, such as NRA, Big Pharma and Big Oil. AIPAC is also included. The link I posted says AIPAC planned to spend $40m campaigning against Obama's nuclear deal.

 

[Nivash]

The article quotes the American scholars on the AIPAC lobby's influence and in fact, the article pushes back on the notion that every American Jew is in lockstep with AIPAC

Some lobbies are just powerful in washington because their members are well funded and influential over constituencies, such as NRA, Big Pharma and Big Oil. AIPAC is also included. The link I posted says AIPAC planned to spend $40m campaigning against Obama's nuclear deal.

Again, the section in the OP's quote that I take serious issue with is this:

"Since then, those "extreme Zionists leaders" have grown in numbers and influence beyond anything Truman could have ever imagined.

In their seminal article, The Israel Lobby (which served as the thesis of their book) in the London Review of Books, two prominent American scholars John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt took on the painstaking task of deconstructing the power of the "formal" and "informal" Israel lobby that has grown exponentially in recent years.

They argued that the power of the lobby is now so great to the point that it has largely orchestrated the US war on Iraq in 2003, only to shift following the war fiasco to advocate wars against Iran and Syria; in addition to ensuring that there can never be a balanced US foreign policy on Israel and Palestine."

It practically claims that the Israel lobby essentially dictates US foreign policy and I'm sorry, but that's text book conspiracy theory thinking. That's Al Jazeeras spin, clearly - they're not the words of the scholars - but it immediately makes the entire article suspect to me because I don't know what else they put their spin on.

 

[Agent_J]

I hate how all these religious nutjobs have such great influence. And it's not "The Jews", it's Zionism. They're the KKK of Christianity or the ISIS of Islam.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Some of the attorneys I work with donate a lot of money AIPAC. They are pro-Israel and are not fans of Muslims. And of course they are trump supporters lol.

 

[The Albatross]

This article is generally garbage. You can be skeptical of the relationship between Israel and the US, but distilling it down to just Jewish Lobbying is such an insulting, stupid, anti-Historical simplification. Criticizing Israel or the relationship between the US and Israel is not anti-Semitic, but doing so on the basis of Jewish lobbying -- which is so often the case -- is rooted in anti-Semitism. There are powerful lobbying groups for every industry, for every trade group, for every country in the world, yet the lobbying group that is so persistently thought of with this conspiratorial lens of world domination is the Israel lobby. This isn't a coincidence or a reflection of reality, it is the culmination of thousands of years of anti-semitism because how else could anybody come to agree with a country of Jews unless they're being paid off by Jewish lawyers.

The relationship between the US and Israel today has far, almost infinitely, more to do with the relationship between the US and UK and the US and the Soviet Union during the Cold War than it does with a cabal of Jewish lawyers who allegedly fleece the pockets of otherwise wholesome American politicians.

Again, being critical of Israeli internal policy is fine. Being critical of the relationship between American foreign policy and Israeli foreign policy is fine. But continually distilling and reducing that foreign policy down to tricky Jews who pay off American politicians is a theory that is based primarily in anti-Semitism. Anti-semitism has just been such a fabric of Western civilization for so long, that otherwise good, honest people are duped into thinking that it's not racism.

I hate how all these religious nutjobs have such great influence. And it's not "The Jews", it's Zionism. They're the KKK of Christianity or the ISIS of Islam.

This is offensively wrong. There's plenty of valid criticism of Zionism and the ZIonist wing of Jewish settlers or Israeli policy makers, but Zionist Jews are not a terrorist organization like ISIS or the KKK.

 

[Agent_J]

This is offensively wrong. There's plenty of valid criticism of Zionism and the ZIonist wing of Jewish settlers or Israeli policy makers, but Zionist Jews are not a terrorist organization like ISIS or the KKK.

While they certainly are not as violently crazy (unless you count all the chemical warfare they use against the innocent civilians of Palestine, including the mass murders of thousands of children and women) they do have a dangerous belief that they are the "Chosen People" from God and all other races are inferior.

 

[The Albatross]

While they certainly are not as violently crazy (unless you count all the chemical warfare they use against the innocent civilians of Palestine, including the mass murders of thousands of children and women) they do have a dangerous belief that they are the "Chosen People" from God and all other races are inferior.

What you're saying isn't even true. Zionism was/is a political movement, not a religious movement. The basis of Zionism has always been political, statist, more similar to, say, the French Revolution or Bolshevism than a movement like Wahhabism. Zionism, as a movement, has always been indifferent to the religious aspects of Judaism, as it never sought to change Judaism or make Jews (or gentiles) more adherent to Judaism.

Do Jews believe that they're the chosen people? Sure (but even this is academic... Most Jews throughout the world aren't particularly adherent to this idea). Are Zionists overwhelming Jews? Sure. But Zionism doesn't promote a religious agenda, it promotes a political agenda. Zionism didn't start as a movement to make Jews more Jewish or to convert Christians/Muslims to Judaism, it started as a political movement because Jews were legitimately the targets of systemic discrimination, violence, and genocide in Europe for the simple sake of them being Jews. The origin of Zionism is much more similar to the origin of a movement like Black Lives Matter than it is the origin of a movement like ISIS or the KKK. Zionism was a reaction to centuries of White supremacy against Jews in Europe (and America, but primarily Europe), where as ISIS or the KKK are movements in Christian or Muslim majority countries that feel threatened (ridiculously) by minority groups in those countries.

I disagree strongly with virtually every Zionist political argument today (and I'm an atheist, certainly not Jewish), but you have a lot of misunderstandings about Zionism.

 

[Got]

It's the same as criticizing Israel makes you anti-semite logic. Criticizing AIPAC makes you an anti-semite too, apparently.

Figured as much, just interesting seeing it in unintelligible barely decipherable gibberish.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Figured as much, just interesting seeing it in unintelligible barely decipherable gibberish.

Criticizing AIPAC doesn't make you anti-semitic, but claiming AIPAC is the puppetmaster of the American government does.

 

[The Albatross]

It's the same as criticizing Israel makes you anti-semite logic. Criticizing AIPAC makes you an anti-semite too, apparently.

This is fucking bull shit.

Nobody is saying that criticizing AIPAC is making you anti-Semitic or that criticizing Israel makes you anti-Semitic. Stop trying to pretend that you're persecuted by reverse racism.

The idea that wealthy Jewish lawyers trick the entire American foreign policy apparatus into their Israeli agenda is based in anti-Semitism. No other group of lobbyists, either from trade groups or international countries, are given the magical powers of the Israel lobby, and it manifests itself with so many morons nodding their heads along to articles like this.

 

[Agent_J]

What you're saying isn't even true. Zionism was/is a political movement, not a religious movement. The basis of Zionism has always been political, statist, more similar to, say, the French Revolution or Bolshevism than a movement like Wahhabism. Zionism, as a movement, has always been indifferent to the religious aspects of Judaism, as it never sought to change Judaism or make Jews (or gentiles) more adherent to Judaism.

Do Jews believe that they're the chosen people? Sure (but even this is academic... Most Jews throughout the world aren't particularly adherent to this idea). Are Zionists overwhelming Jews? Sure. But Zionism doesn't promote a religious agenda, it promotes a political agenda. Zionism didn't start as a movement to make Jews more Jewish or to convert Christians/Muslims to Judaism, it started as a political movement because Jews were legitimately the targets of systemic discrimination, violence, and genocide in Europe for the simple sake of them being Jews. The origin of Zionism is much more similar to the origin of a movement like Black Lives Matter than it is the origin of a movement like ISIS or the KKK. Zionism was a reaction to centuries of White supremacy against Jews in Europe (and America, but primarily Europe), where as ISIS or the KKK are movements in Christian or Muslim majority countries that feel threatened (ridiculously) by minority groups in those countries.

I disagree strongly with virtually every Zionist political argument today (and I'm an atheist, certainly not Jewish), but you have a lot of misunderstandings about Zionism.

I am mistaken in that it is not a religious movement. I always view them with a bias due to the atrocities they have committed to Palestine and it's people and subconsciously merge Israel (and it's Jewish population) with Zionism.

 

[Gallbaro]

Genuinely do not see how someone can read this article and not see the anti-Semitic undertones.

And I genuinely do not like the current Israeli government or genocidal policies.

 

[Kadayi]

No shit there's a powerful lobby. The BS land grab and military occupation that's been going on in Palestine for the last 50 years or so has been allowed to happen solely because successive US governments have vetoed any UN intervention within the region.

People love to get into he said, she said, or bring one's prejudices towards Jews or Muslims to bear on the situation but ultimately at the end of the day what's been going on there is illegal under international law and should have been addressed many years ago before it turned into the clusterfuck we know today.

 

[Wag]

Christian Zionists don't give a shit about the Jews. They need all the Jews to "return" to Israel so the Rapture can happen. Then they can burn just like everyone else.

 

[PdotMichael]

So what exactly was the endgame of the USA controlling jews regarding to the Iraq War.

Saddam as threat was pretty much neutralized, a pro-Israel Iraq can't exist, so what was the goal here?

 

[Stinkles]

Ironically America at the time had more than enough space to support a Jewish state - the southwest for example could have supported a small nation with borders to the us and Mexico and perhaps even a peninsula to a gulf port.

Instead of the objectively foolish place we and others inserted history's greatest wedge issue.


There was absolutely a giant humanitarian need for a safe place for the world's Jewry. I just don't think that historical Israel was safe at all.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Noam Chomksy - Why does the U.S Support Israel?

He talks about Christian Zionism predating Israeli Zionism and about how early military victories impressed US Joint Chiefs. The victories of the Israeli military is still to this day- Legendary. It's perceived to be improbable that Israel could take on so many opponents and still be victorious. Much to the ire of its neighbors.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Seeing AIPAC described as the second most powerful lobby with sources 20 and 12 years old is a big Red Flag that it's not nearly true.


https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000046963

LOBBYING

$3,602,343 (2016)
$3,388,700 (2015)
ranks 133 of 3,729 in 2016

But this is magical jewish money that sways politicians to their side even though Arab nations can outspend them 5 times over.

 

[ECC]

Seeing AIPAC described as the second most powerful lobby with sources 20 and 12 years old is a big Red Flag that it's not nearly true.


https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000046963



But this is magical jewish money that sways politicians to their side even though Arab nations can outspend them 5 times over.

I believe that the idea of AIPAC (and thus its power) is not as a direct provider of money to the political process. The money will find its way by means of many different donations, from different foundations and individuals provided you align with AIPAC.

Now, that being said, the link in OP is to an Al Jazeera feature written by an author with a Palestinian background. Make of that what you will - but personally, that is not the first place I would start looking for "unbiased" analysis about that particular conflict.