Twilight princess as well. I remember them publishing 2k shots for that one.
I expect the new zelda to be 720p with minimal or no AA.
The Wii U and its ability to produce amazing visuals.
- Thread starter delta25
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I expect the new zelda to be 720p with minimal or no AA.
Chû Totoro
Member
Winning platform is the one that has the games I want to play. PS4 is winning by sales but it's losing to meet my expectations.
Such comments with "winning" consoles since they have a lot of sales is good in a sales thread but in a "ability to produce amazing visuals" thread it's just a stupid way to look at things.
Also this threads like most of Nintendo Wii U praising threads are instantly trolled and turn into crap by useless posts.
So much adult wisdom in this post.
LoveCake
Member
The thing with Nintendo is that they build/design the hardware/console with the programmers & developers in mind, i suppose that they talk to the in-house teams to see what they would like to be able to do & then the hardware team see what they are able to do.
People say that the games are cartoony in looks, well yes they are but there is so much detail going on, i doubt we'll ever see (not sure how to word this) games graphicly of a more mature style, i think the closest would be a Metroid Prime game, something like Star Wars: Rebel Strike III i would love to see, i know it was made by Lucas Arts, but you will never see anything in a real world setting GTA style, i think the closest we have on other platforms is Sunset Overdrive as how a real world game in a Nintendo style would look.
People say that the games are cartoony in looks, well yes they are but there is so much detail going on, i doubt we'll ever see (not sure how to word this) games graphicly of a more mature style, i think the closest would be a Metroid Prime game, something like Star Wars: Rebel Strike III i would love to see, i know it was made by Lucas Arts, but you will never see anything in a real world setting GTA style, i think the closest we have on other platforms is Sunset Overdrive as how a real world game in a Nintendo style would look.
Papacheeks
Banned
Do you have proof of this? I know they are pre-rendered my understanding though was they were all in engine?
Is there a article I could read to clarify this from insomniac. Or are you a developer that just happened to know?
Edit: Never mind found my answer.
Yea sorry I should have done some research a little more.
http://www.insomniacgames.com/community/showthread.php?53419-Cutscenes
Have you actually played for example AssCreed 2?
On SD TVs or shrunk down to some internet video, sure it looks pretty good. If they were SD games, I could agree, but they aren't. They are supposed to be HD games. As soon as you use an HD TV, they simply look like crap. Framerate + V'Sync is terri-bad. Even the map is choppy. Texture + geometry popup is embarrassingly bad. I think only a few Wii games had such horrible popup issues for example Far Cry Vengeance. And the games still look like crap. They are just a mess. A mess to play. And messy in the graphics department as well.
Nintendo made a perfect engine for the Wii U with the EAD engine used in SM3DW, Nintendoland, Captain Toad, and Mario Kart 8. It is developed perfectly around the Wii U's strengths and shortcomings and the games look great. But Nintendo's other developers have done a great job as well, with DKCTF, Wind Waker HD, and Pikmin 3.
I think the best looking game on the Wii U is probably SM3DW, as a combination of art and tech. MK8 is up there, too, but the aliasing diminishes it somewhat.
I think the best looking game on the Wii U is probably SM3DW, as a combination of art and tech. MK8 is up there, too, but the aliasing diminishes it somewhat.
magnumpy
Member
christ, WoW came out back in 2004. it most certainly does NOT hold up graphically vs. a 2014 game. it's 10 years old, a full decade. it's a creaking steamboat.
Astral Dog
Member
Next gen is going to be "imagine what Nintendo could do on a Xbox Two/ PS5, Art Style great, not much else".
Wich is not wrong, but, sometimes we need to accept what we have here, now and try to enjoy the games, as some of them won't be coming the next generation. Same for Xbox One.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Metroid Prime 3 looked absurdly good for a Wii game. I would love to see what retro could do with MP4. I think it could approach Halo 4 tbh
Kataploom
Gold Member
But @ 60 fps because it's Metroid.
Stop looking at screenshots from 2004 and look at them from 2014 from the latest expansion. Blizzard really upped the visuals on it. You actually need decent hardware to run it at ultra.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Chose the wrong series with that one bud. AC4 and ACU look great on ps4.
This is what a 3rd party game that looks like shit looks like.
Sorry for dumping a load of images in advance! 
I took all of these screens myself and I have to say, MK8 is just an amazing looking game. I haven't played it in a while but looking back is really refreshing my mind at how amazing it looks, especially in motion! It doesn't look perfect, AA is needed at times but overall I love it.
I took all of these screens myself and I have to say, MK8 is just an amazing looking game. I haven't played it in a while but looking back is really refreshing my mind at how amazing it looks, especially in motion! It doesn't look perfect, AA is needed at times but overall I love it.
They've made a precedent with Skyward Sword, the most recent 3D Zelda game. Not that difficult to understand.
Everything I say on the topic of the Zelda WiiU screenshots is equally applicable to the Zelda WiiU video.
They were probably developing the Nintendo Land/Super Mario 3D World/Mario Kart 8/Captain Toad/Wooly World/etc. engine during the end of Wii lifetime drought when everybody asked what the hell they were doing. Time well invested actually, although they didn't have the resources to fill the holes in the schedule.
Doczu
Member
It's the same engine that was used on the Wii and Gamecube. Or at least it is based heavily on that engine. There is a single in house engine that Nintendo uses more than 10 years on different platforms.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
We live in an era where no matter what your software releases on, if you've got the ability, you can be staring at one of the prettiest games ever seen.
I don't care if you've got a powerhouse PC with 5x the theoretical capability of the PS4. You're going to look at 3D World, Treasure Tracker, Mario Kart, and likely Zelda thinking "That's just beautiful."
There might be a part of your mind that thinks "I've seen better material shaders," or "It really could be at a higher res," or "Definitely could use some AA," None of that stops those games from being beautiful.
They could look better, yes. All realtime rendering could. It's always an uphill climb. There's always deficits, there's always compromise. But we live in a time in which these deficits are becoming smaller and smaller, where the images produced are becoming more and more convincing.
Hardware power will mean more flourishes. More detail. But that in no way makes what's being produced on a WiiU, or a phone, ugly.
There's definitely a sizable gulf between WiiU and PS4. But that gulf means both less and more than most here seem to realize. On the more? Some games will just not port comfortably between them. On the less? You've still got games like MK, 3D World, and DKTF that sit comfortably with games released on much more powerful hardware.
So stop bitching, whining, and acting like tossers long enough to realize what an era we live in.
I don't care if you've got a powerhouse PC with 5x the theoretical capability of the PS4. You're going to look at 3D World, Treasure Tracker, Mario Kart, and likely Zelda thinking "That's just beautiful."
There might be a part of your mind that thinks "I've seen better material shaders," or "It really could be at a higher res," or "Definitely could use some AA," None of that stops those games from being beautiful.
They could look better, yes. All realtime rendering could. It's always an uphill climb. There's always deficits, there's always compromise. But we live in a time in which these deficits are becoming smaller and smaller, where the images produced are becoming more and more convincing.
Hardware power will mean more flourishes. More detail. But that in no way makes what's being produced on a WiiU, or a phone, ugly.
There's definitely a sizable gulf between WiiU and PS4. But that gulf means both less and more than most here seem to realize. On the more? Some games will just not port comfortably between them. On the less? You've still got games like MK, 3D World, and DKTF that sit comfortably with games released on much more powerful hardware.
So stop bitching, whining, and acting like tossers long enough to realize what an era we live in.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
It had to be heavily modified at least, to adhere to multicore CPUs for example.
- Wii U is more powerful (and has a more modern GPU architecture which makes a huge difference) then the 360 and PS3.
- Nintendo goes for clean image quality and performance first.
- Uses a bright, great looking color palette.
- Rim lighting. Rim lighting everywhere.
Wii U isn't a power house, Nintendo is just very smart with their art/tech priorities. Mario Galaxy looked amazing on the Wii, simply blowing that up to HD and the game looks stunning. Not a big leap to figure out that games built for HD by Nintendo would look fantastic.
Doczu
Member
And you know this because of special inside information?
Deduction. Check this video:
http://youtu.be/6dmeQ2hzczQ
Models and graphics from Wind Waker dumped into SMG 2, so Wind Wakers engine is the same as the one from Super Mario Sunshine, Galaxy and quite possibly other Nintendo games from that era. NSMB engine is the same on the 3DS, Wii and Wii U. So why would they change an entire engine? I'm 99% sure the first party Wii U games use the same engine, but scaled up for the hardware. Sadly i have no more evidence for this, but if someone will ever dump that stuff and try to load other assets in engine then i'm (at least in some regard) right. And if not, i will gladly eat a crow.
well said sadly its most likely gong to be ignored due to hyperbole and system warz nonsense.
Importing models from one game to another does not at all mean they're on the same engine.
For instance, someone added The Skeleton King model to Dark Souls. Those certainly aren't from the same engine.
Edit: Actually even the featured video on that persons Youtube page is inserting Counter Strike maps into SMG2...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnCJK9x78k8
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
No engine was ever built in vacuum. Good tech is reused time and again. That does not make the engine of NL/SM3DW/MK8 a Wii engine, though - the GPU side might hardly have anything in common with the Wii era engines (a deferred dx10+ shader vs a vertex-shader-less EMBM-employing forward shader), and the CPU side went from one CPU to 3-way SMP.
LordOfChaos
Member
I suspect I know what you mean, but I don't think endianness is the proper explanation of it. Were you getting at the SIMD heavy Cell and Xenon compared to the relatively simple Espresso with only paired singles? Because endianness isn't that.
Nintendo tend to sacrifice clean IQ for performance. Just saying.
The Wii U is underwhelming spec wise but it's a major step up from the Gamecube so there's still a wow factor whenever a Nintendo property is updated to use modern rendering techniques.
Wii U certainly has advantages compared to last gen consoles, but I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether it's the most powerful overall. Usually the evidence for this boils down to subjective interpretations of Nintendo titles that can be taken way too far.
No it doesn't, show me a Zelda bullshot video released by Nintendo for 3D Zelda. Your only reason to even claim that is because you think so and because of some Skyward Sword screenshots while completely ignoring every other 3D Zelda reveal footage vs the final game.
ChoklitCow
Member
So I was going to upload an awesome Bayonetta 2 screenshot, but imgur just locks up at "pending upload" the entire time.
I know there are other better sites without as much compression, but is this an issue for other people as well?
I know there are other better sites without as much compression, but is this an issue for other people as well?
I'm going to just use common sense and tell you that the game will not be releasing on WiiU with the IQ that was present in the reveal trailer because we know what the WiiU is capable of. The WiiU is not going to present that game, at that resolution, at a solid 30fps, with that draw distance and distant level of detail, with those smoke effects, with that level of anti-aliasing, with those quality of shadows, with that amount of foliage.
Also, the distinction you're making between screenshots and videos seems really arbitrary.
That's not common sense that's you refusing to accept what has already been outright stated as gameplay as being gameplay.
How is that arbitrary, releasing bullshot video and releasing bullshot screenshots are two different things. Bullshot video is what Dark Souls 2 was with its old lightning system or Watch_Dogs E3 2012. Bullshot screenshots are just that screenshots that are clearly beyond the capabilities of the system in question example being HD Wii screenshots.
You say Nintendo set a precedent for bullshotting Zelda games yet all you link is the HD screenshots of Skyward Sword while ignoring the plethora of pre release footage including reveal footage of 3D Zelda's of the past including Skyward Sword itself that clearly say otherwise and in some cases show notable improvements visually.
It happens on imgur from time to time, but it not something that's frequent for me. I just assume the servers are overloaded.
If you have noscript you might need to turn it off temporarily to be able to see and whitelist the hidden sites it's stopping loading scripts/uploading from as well.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Given what little we've seen since, I don't think the amount of foliage is going to be an issue. The density. The variety might be less. It's definitely not going to have that level of IQ. I've said since the trailer that I'd bet it's a firm 720p game. They could go for a nebulous well scaling One type resolution. But I'd bet it's a firm 720p 30fps game. Most likely completely rock solid on both. And the AA solution probably won't be much more advanced than the Ninty norm this gen. Which is generally minimal.
Smoke effects could go either way. I've seen Nintendo do some interesting particle effects this generation. Nothing advanced, but used in a peculiar way. If they don't achieve parity with the trailer I expect them to at least approximate close to it through other means. I expect Zelda to be one of the best looking games on the system. But some don't want to admit that most of that trailer was achieved on hardware not WiiU. Most of those shots released were crystal clean at 1080p. Which means they were likely downscaled from a much higher res source. That's not exactly WiiU punching weight. Unless they were working with assets and effects of a lower standard... which they obvious weren't.
It's going to look terrific. Probably be the last big hurrah from that class of hardware. But keep expectations in check. Arguing that the game is beautiful is easy. It will be, no matter the technical differences seen between reveal and finished product.
In development software is supposed to improve over time. The fact that there are videos of Zelda games from pre-release that look worse than the final version is nothing that should be surprising. That should be happening. It's an entirely irrelevant factor to all of this. The number of times you do things as they're supposed to be done isn't the part that holds any significance here.
Recently, they've started a trend of releasing material that is not appropriately representative of what the final product will be in that it makes it look noticeably better than what you will actually receive. They've shown this to be true with Skyward Sword, where they released screenshots that the Wii would not be capable of realistically producing. We know this to absolutely be true, because we have those screenshots as well as the released retail game to compare against. They've almost certainly done this with Zelda WiiU by releasing screenshots that the WiiU would likely not be capable of realistically producing. And again, they've almost certainly done this in video form with Zelda WiiU by releasing video that common sense tells you the WiiU would not be capable of realistically producing.
You're saying "That's not common sense that's you refusing to accept what has already been outright stated as gameplay as being gameplay." This doesn't make any sense based on any of the things I've said. I've not been talking about gameplay. I've been talking about the IQ and performance.
I should clarify - I'm not saying that Zelda WiiU will meet any of those marks, I'm saying that it will not meet all of those marks at once as the trailer does.
And your last section is my point and thoughts as well. I think that Zelda WiiU is going to look really great and I'm super excited to see where Nintendo takes the art style, but I know that IQ wise it is not going to look exactly as the trailer depicts. There will be cutbacks in some aspect(s).
Astral Dog
Member
What are you saying doesnt make much sense, my friend.
Capcom and Konami released some of the prettiest games on the Wii, and 3DS, after all.
Platinum made the best looking game on the Wii U, imo.
Its simply a case of not dedicating resources to the platform, for good reasons, but a third party game can looks as good as any Nintendo game.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I wasn't trying to imply. I was covering the areas that I expect compromise and areas that I believe they'll excel.
I agree.
I laid out one of those points in my last post. The already higher than expected resolution wasn't enough, but then it has this pixel perfect AA solution that seems to directly imply downsampling from an even higher resolution source, and it should be an easy assumption the game won't realistically look that clean running on a WiiU.
That's not a knock from either of us. We aren't insulting the game for that. Motives behind the move as well are obvious. To spur fans and to show the work in the best light possible. One is an artist move, the other is marketing.
Both deceptive. And also completely common. Not to disregard the shadiness. So in this I'm with you Alo. The game will be gorgeous regardless, but the reveal trailer and the accompanying screens were deceptive. A standard I don't expect to be completely met.
Bayonetta 2 does look very nice (apart from the IQ), but Platinum achieved that at the expense of the game's performance. It mostly runs in the 40's with significant drops whereas most Nintendo games run at a locked 60fps on Wii U.
That's purely your assumption and directly contradicts not only past Zelda history in regards to reveal video footage vs the final game but also Nintendo's output on the WiiU so far in regards to reveal video footage vs the final game.
If anything that's reminiscent of the short lived idea that Xenoblade Chronicles X was downgraded based on the E3 trailer showing character faces. An idea that was shown to not only be completely false but quite the opposite of the actual situation during the extensive Treehouse demo.
Although not relating to reveal footage vs final gameplay it does also play into the idea that Mario Kart 8 wouldn't look much different to MKWii in Dolphin or look similar to the arcade GP Mario Kart's before we ever saw MK8.
Oh, well I was talking about the Wii U version, but my point earlier was that generally, first party developers make games that are far more optimized for their system.Chose the wrong series with that one bud. AC4 and ACU look great on ps4.
This is what a 3rd party game that looks like shit looks like.
Like how Naughty Dog and Kojima made some of the best looking games back on the PS3 at the time, using its hardware so well. While a lot of third party games just didn't run as good, or manage to look as good as those games did. Yes, of course not all of them.
Obviously there are third party developers that make great looking games, never said all of them look like shit, don't get me wrong. What I was talking about is mainly about optimization, and first party games almost always manage to bring better results.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
True. Sometimes though there can be exceptions.
Recent zelda games get bullshots. The released zelda u screenshots were as such. Zelda games do not get bullshot videos. Ever.
Zelda games have not gotten guaranteed proven bullshot videos yet** that I know of yeah, though I haven't put much research into it because for myself I don't feel it necessary. They've proven they're willing to with screenshots which leads me to believe they're willing to with videos. The fact that at TGA all of the gameplay was done off screen is fishy and I think part of that has to do with the fact that they realize it does not match the quality of what they originally showed. I obviously don't know with 100% certainty thats why they did it in such a weird way, but it seems fishy.
I guess all I can say is that it is not purely an assumption, it's an educated assumption. I feel pretty confident in my understanding of how performance intensive it would be to render a game in real time that looked exactly as that video did and was as stable as that video is. With that knowledge I feel confident in saying that the final game will look different in at least one aspect, but likely multiple aspects. Be it resolution, AA, foliage density, smoke, draw distance, LoD or whatever, the game won't look exactly as good as that and that's where I'll leave it.