The point Refreshment.01 is making is that it's awkward to transition to using a stylus. With a capacitive screen you could easily move your hand from the face buttons to pulling off complex touch gestures on the subscreen and back again in the middle of gameplay.
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Lol wut? For a $500 console maybe.
Kid Icarus does a wonderful job of combining stylus play and button play on the 3ds
frankie_baby
Member
Actually Nintendo demonstrated finger dragging on last years e3 wii u video, as foe the other gestures you mentioned its not so much the gestures themselves but what you do with them which we will have to see, I will agree with you about the musical instrument stuff though
Kid Icarus only uses one button.
A capacitive screen that allows for complex gestures to be quickly and accurately pulled off with fingers alone opens up a lot more design choices.
Well there's nothing stopping you from using your fingers on the screen, like I said I managed in OoT3D just fine.
I have a smartphone and I hardly ever find myself needing to use more than one finger.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
I honestly don't even bother with AA unless it's MSAA. FXAA is the cancer of AA solutions, I despise it like I do for every kind of filter kids find popular on emulated 2D games. That being said, MSAA is still pretty taxing for my PC (I game exclusively at 1080p) and I can't see many (if any) top notch Wii U games going for 4X MSAA @720p, the same way I don't see XBX3/PS4 top notch games having that. Most will settle with post processing filter AAs, some wiz devs will find a way to implement 2X MSAA and maybe adaptive rez solutions, that's what I expect.
Xenos was ~$150 and ~$100 for Xenon... My point was that Nintendo Wii U would be less powerful than these systems, and without the tablet, well there is little reason to believe that the Wii U would be exciting enough to tempt purchasers, Move certainly could not.
And to Refreshment#1, while that might be an exaggeration of what you said, you did imply that Wii U users will be content with their graphics until PS4/XB3 comes out, I replied by simply saying that isn't true if we look at history, and that even the PS360 were out gunned from the starting line, but many millions of users are still to this day content with that level of fidelity, and I doubt graphics having such an impact will be a norm in the future too.
To really highlight what I just said, going from NES to SNES was big, and SNES to PSX was probably even bigger thanks to 3D, Xbox to Xbox360 was big thanks in large part to the resolution, but what exactly is next gen? was it the UE3.99 demo? because that really doesn't sell many on next gen, I just think the impact will be less. (I know this is just speculation and my opinion, just letting you know yours isn't the only one
)I have owned the 3DS since day 1 and i have used the stylus on less than 5 occasions. I would actually have to search for it as i have no idea from the top of my head where exactly it is located. It is very manageable to just use your fingers. Unless my fingers are special. If i really need to do some very accurate pointing, i use the back of my finger with my fingernail. If it REALLY is needed, then i use the stylus (i think i used it for typing my name etc). I finished RE:R without touching the stylus once, and that inclused the stupid door puzzles.
You should read this:
Wii U is assumed to have 32MB embedded ram just for this reason; Xenos was 10MB, so don't give up hope just yet.
So they'll come out with another console in 2017/18 (i.e. a normal cycle), and PS480 will continue on through 2020. Nintendo could have three console cycles in the time the other two have two. Wow. :lol
Not since Day 1 for me, but, yeah, it comes out on DSiWare games and web browsing. Otherwise, stays in its slot
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Refreshment.01
Member
No to the above ^. You know why? Because the magnitudes of those visuals transitions you describe doesn't correspond with the scenario painted by Witchfinder General (the guy i was replying to originally). In simple terms he is saying he will be pleased by 2005 level visuals (give or take) until 2017 (give or take 1 year). Before you reply take into consideration Zelda WiiU demo is in the realm of what 360 hardware could pull of. Even taking the subscreen into consideration, in the specific case of that Zelda demo, the 360 probably could pull it off.And to Refreshment#1, while that might be an exaggeration of what you said, you did imply that Wii U users will be content with their graphics until PS4/XB3 comes out, I replied by simply saying that isn't true if we look at history, and that even the PS360 were out gunned from the starting line, but many millions of users are still to this day content with that level of fidelity, and I doubt graphics having such an impact will be a norm in the future too.
To really highlight what I just said, going from NES to SNES was big, and SNES to PSX was probably even bigger thanks to 3D, Xbox to Xbox360 was big thanks in large part to the resolution, but what exactly is next gen? was it the UE3.99 demo? because that really doesn't sell many on next gen, I just think the impact will be less. (I know this is just speculation and my opinion, just letting you know yours isn't the only one
Which is actually a much more sane route. By the time devs get the most out of cutting edge hi-tech hardware, your hardware is long outdated. But because it cost so much, this hardware needs to be pushed for a longer period.
I always advice my nieces and nephews to get 500 $ PC's and not go for 1000+ $ stuff. Because the cheap one will do for now, and you can get a new cheap one in two years which will trump your 2 year old 1000+ $ system, and you still save $ to spare.
EDIT: gahhh... still 35 posts away from being member. And i already feel like posting redundant stuff most of the time. *looks at thread*... or not.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Would you want a SMW remake? Yes
This could work well for Nintendo. Once the other guys are hitting mass market pricing and developers are really taking advantage of the hardware to the point that Wii U can no longer keep up BAM! Nintendo hits with a higher spec machine for a small premium over those systems with a brand new hook.
Those complaining about the tablet controller sadden me.. Wii Remotes will still be supported, you'll still see games using them plus we get awesome gameplay innovations through the tablet controller. Sure third parties may not use the full potential of the controller but it's better to have a system that has games than one that doesn't. The exclusives won't go anywhere, we'll get just as many, if not more games that innovate on Wii U than we had on Wii plus we'll get all the third party multiplats with some cool features.
Also remember that if games don't use the tablet controller very much, there is a higher chance we'll be able to continue to play those games when we go to bed or the TV is occupied or nature calls.
No Swap Note? <gasp/>
Rather a new 2D Mario game.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I was thinking the other day that, if GAF were around when SMW was first revealed, it would have been quickly written off as a terrible, worthless rehash and people would have committed right there to never playing it no matter what it played like.
I agree, 360 is in the "realm" of any game's graphics, heck what they are going to pull off with Crysis 3 should imply that... That is sort of my point, 360's graphics won't really be largely out dated, which is a statement that is only backed up by the point that gamers are mixed when it come to Samaritan, which you didn't get with stuff like Space world 2000's Zelda demo...
I just think if Wii U fits directly in-between PS4/XB3 and PS360, there will be a lot of people happy with the graphics... and whether you can prebake lighting in the zelda demo for a 360 or do it nativity on the Wii U, is pretty much where graphics are taking us.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Or the 2D game based off of World. There's too much sucking SMB3's cock.
Actually the percentage of subHD games is pretty high. There were launch titles that didn't hit 720p, despite the "mandates".
Ahahahaha... oh Wii U. Your future is looking Wii-like.
What I don't understand about this line of thinking is that people who care this much should have gaming PCs, not consoles. Even Durango's going to be out of date, hardware wise, the second it launches. And that coming from a fairly high-spec console.
100% agreed. Post processing AA is mostly shit, and I would honestly rather see jaggies than it. As an example, I play BF3 on Ultra at 1080p (Sandybridge + crossfired 5850's on my HTPC) on a 120" screen, and with my setup to retain a respectable framerate in multiplayer I can either have 2xMSAA or no AA depending on the level. Even with no AA, I refuse to turn on that post-processed crap. It makes me want to poke out my eyes with a capacitive stylus.
DaSorcerer7
Member
Well of course developers are going to get other studios on it at this stage, the system's not even out yet and the current teams aren't going to have the manpower.
This post is amazing.
Technically he is right though, without prebaking the lighting, 360 couldn't do the effects shown in that video, it COULD be done at a couple frames per second, but my understanding is that it's much higher taxing for shader model 3.0 to do something like that, along with the Wii U's basic architecture of the chip simply being designed for effects like that.
Smiles and Cries
Member
is Ubisoft or IdeaMan around?
I am bored need some hype or drama
I am bored need some hype or drama
well guys what we saw during last the e3 was the fast build demos (Zelda demo was using twilight princess assets) on the still early development kits. I think logically it will be different once its all finalized.
actually if we put lower end idea based on ati hd 4000 specs we should be expecting minimum like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL72EmeZ1Vg
http://www.shacknews.com/video/4521/ati-radeon-hd-3000-ping/ (ati 3000 - which is lower than expected)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fzkHGch12c
but we knows its definitely better than this..
actually if we put lower end idea based on ati hd 4000 specs we should be expecting minimum like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL72EmeZ1Vg
http://www.shacknews.com/video/4521/ati-radeon-hd-3000-ping/ (ati 3000 - which is lower than expected)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fzkHGch12c
but we knows its definitely better than this..
Portugeezer
Member
What else is embedded ram used for?
We may be getting something like this or more atleast based on current speculations and the API support.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkPJONyTDnk
Based on what we know, the GPU will be much weaker than a full RV770, so no, that's not the minimum. And no, it having 2012 tech would not automatically make it stronger.
Well if the design is SoC, they could also use it for the CPU, it really depends on what the developers want to use it for, but some developers used it on the Xenos for AA, or at least tried to, so I am some optimism that Wii U devs will as well.
Fourth Storm
Member
No, I got you. A rotating camera is a solution to the lack of a rear camera conundrum. I just don't see much point in worrying about AR when you'll be confined to one room and the 3DS already has that covered. Maybe I'm missing some more of the gameplay possibilities, though.
Well I mentioned about HD 4000 series not RV770. Even I put HD 3000 tech demo which is basically lower than that.. Basically its dx10 /opengl level api support.
In a closed system, it should out perform the HD4000 series, and having the 2012 tech plus that 32MB buffer could add effects + AA for cheap, not to mention that if fixed functionality is there, we could see a bump to those videos.
Basically you should keep the pessimism just bump it up a bit to what we actually are speculating on... a 2012 console that is going to be the most powerful console ever released, even if it is only true for 11-18months.
Actually we got confirmation that it has 2011/2012 bells and whistles, so DX11 feature set should be available, even if DXanything won't be used on the console.
Exactly true, based on what we know about Nintendo graphic technology (w.r.t GC and prior) i think we will be getting some interesting fix functionality stuff. Remember it suppose to be geForce 2 level graphic card but we saw RE4, Metroid Prime series and Mario galaxy and list goes on. I didn't see anything from my Geforce 2 / Geforce 3??
stupidvillager
Member
So what about it exactly is 2009 tech? VLIW4, VLIW5? How many are there. Is there indeed fixed function units at work. What makes you say its 2009 tech, especially if its not based on a desktop and is completely custom? How far have you dug into the GPU to really compare it to anything? I know you aren't/can't give an major details but I'm sure you could give us something.
GPU tech demos are typically made on closed systems.
Very disappointing.
Refreshment.01
Member
This doesn't rest any merits to what i said. In terms of visuals (since that's the line of conversation we were talking in case you are not following) 360 level hardware can reproduce that Zelda WiiU demo.
A ok, i thought you didnt because of the question. Anyway, The 3DS is irrelevant since not every WiiU owner will have one. The gameplay necessities for an outward facing camera encompass AR applications in which the user is using the subscreen as the window. Added to this, for other applications such as photography it feels more natural the setup with the camera facing outwards since it behaves like a traditional camera. You know for photo editing or mapping in possible WiiU software.
another interesting fact is that power 7 comes with 4,6 and 8 cores. From fabrication perspective, manufacturer when producing in mass volumes makes the higher cores and disable the lower i.e. produces 8 core and disabled 4 cores to sell 4 core processor. This is what I know from Intel and AMD manufacturing background.
Now even when we look at mass production on lowest end power 7 specs, i.e. 4 cores. why one core will be disabled as what we know from rumors? doesn't make sense...
Now even when we look at mass production on lowest end power 7 specs, i.e. 4 cores. why one core will be disabled as what we know from rumors? doesn't make sense...
Well its based on PC.. not console.. there is no console with mainline graphic card series...
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