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The Wii U Speculation Thread VI: The Undiscovered Country

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IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
An article about the software Row Row Row Remote, created by indies Tom Sennett & Salil Malkan, rather critical about the Wii U, their application can top it and even surpass it in their opinion

Tom Sennett (RunMan and Deepak Fights Robots) has paired with Salil Malkan to create the local crowd-player Row Row Row Remote, which runs on a computer and can use dozens of phones or tablets. Though the game may look simplistic (Wii Sports didn't "look" all that impressive compared to the tech it modeled), Sennett and Malkan aim to inspire and empower developers, while exponentially increasing the amount of players involved in a local multiplayer experience and creating "new, awesome games from the ground up" instead of "shoehorning new, awesome technology into old, stagnant forms."

Row Row Row Remote asks players to use their smartphones or tablets as paddles. Each group needs to coordinate its motions to move effectively through the course. The game only uses the devices' touch and gyroscope functions, but Sennett tells IndieGames this is just the beginning.

Sennett explains that the controller part of Row Row Row Remote is a web app - accessible through a mobile device's browser. It supports iOS 4.2 and above and Android 4.0 phones along with Android tablets. The team also has a wrapped native app for older Android phones, though it hasn't been deployed yet. They aim to have native apps for both Android and iOS, along with the web app, to support as many devices as possible on those two platforms. Sennett says they'd like to look into Windows Phone, "but probably not BlackBerry because they are so horrible to develop for."

To run Row Row Row Remote, players load the Flash-based game on a PC's browser and the controller on a phone's browser (or in a wrapped native app). Sennett reiterates what he describes in the video, "These pages are connected to a Node.js server via Javascript, which enables them to talk to each other in real time... All the network communication happens over the web, separated from the game and controller logic."

This setup may sound restricting, but the tools behind the experience are quite flexible. Sennett details, "The controller software, the server, and the game itself are all separate, autonomous entities, and can be pretty easily swapped out for different kinds of technology. So the server doesn't really care where the inputs are coming from (Android, iOS, web app, whatever), and doesn't care where they're going to (currently a Flash game, which we like because it's cross-platform and we get to use FlashPunk)."

Row Row Row Remote is really all about opening things up for developers and for crafting larger experiences than the local, four-player limit console gamers are used to, Sennett shared. "The big console makers have had a monopoly on the local multiplayer experience for decades and it's been stagnant, and we're sick of it. Like seriously, the Wii U lets you play games on your TV with ONE tablet and some Wiimotes? And that's supposed to be something cool? With our system you can play with devices of all stripes - one of which you probably already own - and with dozens of other people at the same time."

Sennett expressed that the technology behind the Wii U (its tablet+wiimote+console combination) is nothing revolutionary as far as details have been revealed. He feels similarly about Row Row Row Remote's tech: it merely involves hooking together technology that already exists.

Sennett explains, "But it's not really about the technology itself, it's the motivation behind it. We're trying to take technology a lot of people are already familiar with and use it to create accessible, novel, fun games. Nintendo's just trying to get you to buy shit. Requiring people to buy a console, a bunch of overpriced controllers that only work on your system, and some worthless little figurines to get virtual powerups might be good business, but it's terrible game design."

He further explains that motion controls and touch screens doesn't have to be a gimmick or just a marketing ploy. "People need to stop shoehorning new, awesome technology into old, stagnant forms, and instead create new, awesome games from the ground up. It's increasingly clear the AAA guys are uninterested or incapable of doing that, so as usual it's time for us indie developers to step up."

So, does that make the tech behind Row Row Row Remote better than the Wii U? "Our tech is better because it's open and flexible, but that's not really what's important. What's important is the only motivation behind it is to inspire and enable the creation of great games."

Wow at some comments, rather harsh and insulting. It's a trend in the industry to make yourself and your projects known with a bang! and inflammatory declarations ?
 

Kjellson

Member
About the new controller. We all know that the new design is from that 2012 patent, but do we know for sure that they also changed the backside to one with grips? We only saw the front so I don't want to jump to conclusions about it being improved.
 
The Activision/Bungie contract was signed in 2010, and may have been amended since then.

I don't think it really says anything either way about a Wii U version.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo

BlackJace

Member
An article about the software Row Row Row Remote, created by indies Tom Sennett & Salil Malkan, rather critical about the Wii U, their application can top it and even surpass it in their opinion



Wow at some comments, rather harsh and insulting. It's a trend in the industry to make yourself and your projects known with a bang! and inflammatory declarations ?

Ha, I'd like to see them try. It seems as though these guys know that bad-mouthing Nintendo gets them press. Sad really.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
About the new controller. We all know that the new design is from that 2012 patent, but do we know for sure that they also changed the backside to one with grips? We only saw the front so I don't want to jump to conclusions about it being improved.

Good point, but everything that we can see is exactly as seen in the design patents so it's safe to assume the other angles are the same too.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
That's not how sleuthing works. There's absolutely no connection between Pitbull and Nintendo. No hints. No former partnerships. Not a single member of the team has a history with Nintendo. All there is is a phrase found in pretty much every other job posting. I've seen the post a few days ago, and I'm sure guys like Rösti or Shiggy have seen it as well. It wasn't posted for a reason.

The main problem is that you have some inside knowledge. That also means you have a responsibility. Considering how vague most of the actual information you post is, because you love to tease, everything you post might be misunderstood as inside knowledge (even more so because you love to emphasize your posts, with bolded headlines and such). You really should be more careful about what you post and how you present the information.

wow, you jump to that ship yourself ? i'm disappointed, the tone of your post is so bad :/
and it's not a contest between "sleuths" you know ?

There are people recruiting for under NDA projects using UE4, engine that a lot of folks including me are wondering if it will run on Wii U. It's a possibility, that's all. Like the trademarks that we all relay here, from gaming companies, like Sega, etc. It could be not related to Wii U at all, but it's still a possibility, something to speculate about. I didn't presented the info as "a confirmation of Wii U support", but "maybe a very very small hint toward", there's a huge difference, the second wording has 4 words basically saying "ok that's nothing". It's not a sleuth work, it's a copy/past of something found quickly on internet, loosely linked to our topic of interest, that may nurture 2 or 3 speculation messages, like "hey, what this company done before ? Could they work on wii U ?". Of course having as a required skill the "interesting in all platforms" means nearly nothing.
 
An article about the software Row Row Row Remote, created by indies Tom Sennett & Salil Malkan, rather critical about the Wii U, their application can top it and even surpass it in their opinion



Wow at some comments, rather harsh and insulting. It's a trend in the industry to make yourself and your projects known with a bang! and inflammatory declarations ?

Man, that arrogance is astounding. Sounds like he's got it all planned out. Can't wait for him to usher us into a new era.
 

wsippel

Banned
wow, you jump to that ship yourself ? i'm disappointed :/
and it's not a contest between "sleuths" you know ?

There are people recruiting for under NDA projects using UE4, engine there a lot of folks including me wondering if it will run on Wii U. It's a possibility, that's all. Like the trademarks that we all relay here, from gaming companies, like Sega, etc. It could be not related to Wii U at all, but it's still a possibility, something to speculate about. I didn't presented the info as "a confirmation of Wii U support", but "a very very small hint toward", there's a huge difference.
I'm not jumping and there is no contest. My post was well intended. And I'm not saying you shouldn't post that stuff, you just shouldn't post it in the same style you use to post actual information. Maybe they are actually working on a Wii U game. But there really is no "hint" - not even a very small one.
 

chris3116

Member
An article about the software Row Row Row Remote, created by indies Tom Sennett & Salil Malkan, rather critical about the Wii U, their application can top it and even surpass it in their opinion



Wow at some comments, rather harsh and insulting. It's a trend in the industry to make yourself and your projects known with a bang! and inflammatory declarations ?

Yeah, I have a huge feeling that if Wii U is a success that both guys will sue Nintendo for stealing their patents.
 

NateDrake

Member
wow, you jump to that ship yourself ? i'm disappointed, the tone of your post is so bad :/
and it's not a contest between "sleuths" you know ?

There are people recruiting for under NDA projects using UE4, engine that a lot of folks including me are wondering if it will run on Wii U. It's a possibility, that's all. Like the trademarks that we all relay here, from gaming companies, like Sega, etc. It could be not related to Wii U at all, but it's still a possibility, something to speculate about. I didn't presented the info as "a confirmation of Wii U support", but "a very very small hint toward", there's a huge difference. It's not a sleuth work, it's a copy/past of something found quickly on internet, loosely linked to our topic of interest, that may nurture 2 or 3 speculation messages, like "hey, what this company done before ? Could they work on wii U ?". Of course having as a required skill the "interesting in all platforms" means nearly nothing.

He is saying that by you posting such a thing on-top of your teasing nature, some may see it as you dropping one of your vague hints/teases as you have inside knowledge of some projects since it is presented in a similar fashion -- bolded parts, etc.. This will lead to people thinking Pitbull is making a WiiU game & the system is running UE4 because they think you are hinting at it. He is trying to save you, actually.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Sakurai left Nintendo to work for Nintendo and make the next Smash Bros.

not only that, after they basically gave him free reign to work on his own franchise for 4 years, he says he's done with kid Icarus, and comes crawling back to make 2 more Smash Bros games...

did anyone say whipped? :p
 

wsippel

Banned
He is saying that by you posting such a thing on-top of your teasing nature, some may see it as you dropping one of your vague hints/teases as you have inside knowledge of some projects since it is presented in a similar fashion -- bolded parts, etc.. This will lead to people thinking Pitbull is making a WiiU game & the system is running UE4 because they think are hinting at it.
That's exactly what I meant. Thank you.
 
I think he is 2nd party and Nintendo have first right of refusal with his games, a bit like Camelot.

IIRC Kid Icarus was orginally a brand new IP and they decided to make it KI part way through development.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
I'm not jumping there is no contest. My post was well intended. And I'm saying you shouldn't post that stuff. Maybe they are actually working on a Wii U game. But it's really not a "hint" - not even a very small one.

He is saying that by you posting such a thing on-top of your teasing nature, some may see it as you dropping one of your vague hints/teases as you have inside knowledge of some projects since it is presented in a similar fashion -- bolded parts, etc.. This will lead to people thinking Pitbull is making a WiiU game & the system is running UE4 because they think you are hinting at it. He is trying to save you, actually.

Yeah i understood, i'm just having faith in the reading comprehension of people, furthermore considering when i post my leaks, it's really different, with a warning before, use of "my sources", etc.

Like:
"ok i'll click to these links"
"yadda yadda, UE4, NDA, next gen platforms, interest for everything, that could include Wii U, but not really a proof, oh well"

and then, some speculation could be generated, like "what are these guys doing ? their background ? some UK gaming veterans i see, oh, not so much ties with Nintendo in the past but that could change ?" or "what are the requirements in a job offer pertaining to UE4 ? maybe we'll see some pattern with future one to circumvent the possibility of a Wii U support ?" or on the contrary "ok this is the typical list that concerns only PS420 and exclude Wii U" :)

Replace "hint" by ehhh, "a possibility that they are at work for Wii U ?" then but i already used this sentence 10th time before :p
 

HylianTom

Banned
Ha, I'd like to see them try. It seems as though these guys know that bad-mouthing Nintendo gets them press. Sad really.

I find it quaint when some no-names try to critique Nintendo on what's good and what's "terrible" game design. Very laughable.

But you're right. Now that they've done this, they've earned millions of fans. Despite ignorance in other matters, pandering to these folks may be kinda smart.
 

Actually quite funny.

I appreciate the idea that you can use stuff you already own to play his game, and that the web based interface sitting between, say, your tablet and your PC is just a javascript based interface - and that means it can be multiplatform -- but you still need to buy two things: a phone or tablet, and a PC/Mac/whatever with a monitor. How does that in any way make Nintendo bad for inviting you to buy a cheap console (computer essentially) that is both a computer and tablet type device in one?

I'd be interested to know what kind of lag Row Row Row Remote type apps would have in a real-use environment, because we know for sure that the video tech powering the Wii-U remote will have been tested to hell and back to make sure we have no complaints, it'll be doing things on TV and on the controller that most tablet and PC combinations will absolutely not. Unless his node.js server thing starts computing and compressing realtime 3D and enables NFC and other shit, he's really doing the Wii-U a disservice...

Essentially, he shit on something that's getting exposure to get himself some exposure I guess. I can respect that if that was his intention... but if he buys his own sales pitch, I think he's kind of deluded. He's selling a fucking flash game.
 
Heh. I had bgassassin in until the last hours before posting but couldn't think of a description which would match the cool factor of this poster. I trust Thread Seven's OP will have a bgassassin section all to its own.

I totally forgot about Sadist :( though. I should certainly have paid particular tribute to all the thread starters. Ah, well, I call thread creation rights for the sixth "Wii UN"* Speculation thread. It'll be great once EviLore enables the new "WebGL thread title" feature.


* What is "UN", Reggie asks himself in front of the crowd at E3 2018? It's "UNusual" but "UNconventional", "UNbridled", "UNtethered", but most of all, any gamer who buys it has automatically "WUN".

It's no big deal. (Just a little one. >_> :p )

You could have said something like, "The creator of a phenomenon that has swept the world. He fought tirelessly amidst demands of closing the first WUST thread and waiting till E3 2012 for real news. Through his perseverance the WUST has taken off to heights unseen and risen to heaven along with the company these threads are dedicated to. He has fought hard to dig up any news and information to stimulate the ongoing discussions that have brought joy, tears, and anger to the visitors of the WUST threads. As a poster he is a man amongst men (and women). And as a Nintendo fan a kid amongst kids."

Not that I thought that out or anything. >_>
 
Those scare-article types makes it seem like Wii U will never take off the ground. There are real threats to their gimmick, but software will always win, right?
 

wsippel

Banned
I'm just having faith in the reading comprehension of people
You really, really shouldn't... ;)

Anyway, check my edited post. What I meant to say was that there's of course nothing wrong with posting that stuff, you simply should make it clearer what's inside info/ teasing and what's speculation. Don't bold and highlight everything for example.
 

J-Rock

Banned
An article about the software Row Row Row Remote, created by indies Tom Sennett & Salil Malkan, rather critical about the Wii U, their application can top it and even surpass it in their opinion



Wow at some comments, rather harsh and insulting. It's a trend in the industry to make yourself and your projects known with a bang! and inflammatory declarations ?

Typical bloated ego douche that I run into all the time in the entertainment industry. They get paid with a reality check.
 

HylianTom

Banned
The problem with this line of thinking is that, well... remember how the publishers were "smacking themselves" (lol) for missing the boat with the Wii completely in its launch years? This time, the architecture is similar enough to port content and they're willfully skipping out.

Damn.. what was the synonym that I'm supposed to use as a substitute for "third parties" in my rants?
(edit: ahh! "chocolate bananas!" Thank you, GreatMightyPoo! I will do my best to remember this!)

Nevermind.

I'm going to wager a guess that I probably wouldn't miss this sure-to-be-creative title anyway.

This may well be a good glimpse into the Wii U's future, especially with western developers. Should be interesting to watch.
 
Sakurai left Nintendo to work for Nintendo and make the next Smash Bros.

The Sakurai/Nintendo thing is simpler than people make it seem.

He struck out on his own because he was a youngish, talented game developer. His friend and colleague rose through the management ranks to become the President of the company, but Sakurai just wanted to make video games.

So he leaves Nintendo, founds Sora, and makes a deal with Q to design a puzzle game. The game's a decent hit, but Sakurai was so naive about the business (and generally just not really a big name outside Nintendo) that the contract he signed meant that he owned almost nothing of the game and did not make much money off it.

So Iwata tries to invite him back. Sakurai says no, he's still trying to make it outside of Nintendo. Iwata announces a sequel to a huge selling game and then uses the announcement, and the alternative, to get his friend in to a stable position where he can make money and stay busy. Sakurai agrees, they made the game, and then he decides that now he will strike out on his own.

Then Iwata tries offers him a position working with, not in, Nintendo on a series of big projects. He'll have money, make a much bigger name for himself, and will get to work with his friends again.

It wasn't that Sakurai left Nintendo just to make the same games. He's making the same games because he hasn't really left Nintendo.
 

Eric C

Member
Can I have the gifs comparing the Wii U controller patent, please? I need them.

These?

7JDUR.gif


EDIT

IF SCREEN SIZE IS DIFFERENT. THE ABOVE GIF IS NOT AN ACCURATE COMPARISON


to go with the other one I made.
3jVsd.gif

The original pics Shiggy posted are here

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35468866&postcount=10922
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
You really, really shouldn't... ;)

Anyway, check my edited post. What I meant to say was that there's of course nothing wrong with posting that stuff, you simply should make it clearer what's inside info/ teasing and what's speculation. Don't bold and highlight everything for example.

Yep it was my intent since the thread 2, but for example, using a title is weird aesthetically. I think that with my forewords/tease/warnings + use of "my sources" sentences + no quote in my leaks + some form of lists here & there, both type of messages are clearly different, but maybe it's not enough for some yes.
 
The Sakurai/Nintendo thing is simpler than people make it seem.

He struck out on his own because he was a youngish, talented game developer. His friend and colleague rose through the management ranks to become the President of the company, but Sakurai just wanted to make video games.

So he leaves Nintendo, founds Sora, and makes a deal with Q to design a puzzle game. The game's a decent hit, but Sakurai was so naive about the business (and generally just not really a big name outside Nintendo) that the contract he signed meant that he owned almost nothing of the game and did not make much money off it.

So Iwata tries to invite him back. Sakurai says no, he's still trying to make it outside of Nintendo. Iwata announces a sequel to a huge selling game and then uses the announcement, and the alternative, to get his friend in to a stable position where he can make money and stay busy. Sakurai agrees, they made the game, and then he decides that now he will strike out on his own.

Then Iwata tries offers him a position working with, not in, Nintendo on a series of big projects. He'll have money, make a much bigger name for himself, and will get to work with his friends again.

It wasn't that Sakurai left Nintendo just to make the same games. He's making the same games because he hasn't really left Nintendo.

On top of that Iwata essentially bought him an entire development studio and said here you go.
 
The Sakurai/Nintendo thing is simpler than people make it seem.

rest of post

Nintendo is also ridiculously safe compared to working in the rest of the Japanese game industry so I'm hardly surprised Sakurai has chosen to get back into bed with Iwata.

And, nowadays I think, Sakurai is a fairly well known name. Outside of Miyamoto I don't think Nintendo has many designers who are known individual quantities like your Bleszinksis, Sudas, Levines etc, but Sakurai is definitely one of those. He's basically the 3rd biggest name at Nintendo today, behind Miyamoto and Iwata. So I think it's paid off in that regard. I guess it also helps that Iwata namedropped him back on stage at E3 in 2010, haha.
 

Maxrunner

Member
No, activision will fund Bungie decently. My point was revolving more around the Wii U being ignored for reasons outside of power. Which will be common.



Read above. As for being discussed already, me not visiting the other thread for 1 weekend resulted in missing 7000 posts. This is probably the reason it's being demoted to a community thread.

Where do they talk specifically about platforms?
 
What game is everyone playing to take their mind off E3? For me, I've been revisiting Bulletstorm, part of the holy trinity of shooters alongside Vanquish and Kid Icarus Uprising.

I'm tempted to pick up Starhawk and Alan Wake: American Nightmare (PC) as well...

Just finished Arkham City, picked up Sin and Punishment 2 and Nano Assault on the cheap from TRU. Between at nd finishing a coop run in RE5, would be n good shape.
 

beje

Banned
Oh there are a number of self important people for sure. You should see the people from Rovio talk.

Yeah, they always act like they invented the wheel when all they did was just a decent flash game like thousands that existed before, that just happened to be successful for releasing in the correct platform at the correct timing. They would have gone rather unnoticed and "meh" if they released on DSiWare or PSN, with propper competition.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
I didn't read these threads for the past week while Diablo 3 ate all my time.

What was Ideaman's "bomb"? You know, the piece of info he teased for weeks until he became a member? I didn't see him make a thread.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Oh there are a number of self important people for sure. You should see the people from Rovio talk.

I'm more accustomed to traditional developers, and i didn't run into so much "ego case" in dozen of interviews, but i have some things to learn about the new indie scene & all. It's like the sector is over-buzzed, over-crowded, and one way to differentiate yourself is by such statements, a pity because it depreciates the valor of their projects.
 
Another reason i'm excited for E3 is because it provides me with an incentive to get back into gaming podcasts. I used to listen to the following:

--PlayerOne Podcast]
--Bombcast
--Weekend Confirmed
--CAGcast
--Joystiq Podcast

I know the Joystiq Podcast is no longer around but are the other 4 still available? Still looking for one nintendo centered podcast as well.
 
I didn't read these threads for the past week while Diablo 3 ate all my time.

What was Ideaman's "bomb"? You know, the piece of info he teased for weeks until he became a member? I didn't see him make a thread.

Sadly most of it got preempted:
There's analog sticks.
The square we thought might be the NFC square is the NFC square.
The button which we don't know the purpose of is still a mystery to everyone.
The developers have been told to expect a slightly bigger screen.

Ideaman did you say you have more news about the optical drive or backup storage? Thanks.
 

BlackJace

Member
The Sakurai/Nintendo thing is simpler than people make it seem.

He struck out on his own because he was a youngish, talented game developer. His friend and colleague rose through the management ranks to become the President of the company, but Sakurai just wanted to make video games.

So he leaves Nintendo, founds Sora, and makes a deal with Q to design a puzzle game. The game's a decent hit, but Sakurai was so naive about the business (and generally just not really a big name outside Nintendo) that the contract he signed meant that he owned almost nothing of the game and did not make much money off it.

So Iwata tries to invite him back. Sakurai says no, he's still trying to make it outside of Nintendo. Iwata announces a sequel to a huge selling game and then uses the announcement, and the alternative, to get his friend in to a stable position where he can make money and stay busy. Sakurai agrees, they made the game, and then he decides that now he will strike out on his own.

Then Iwata tries offers him a position working with, not in, Nintendo on a series of big projects. He'll have money, make a much bigger name for himself, and will get to work with his friends again.

It wasn't that Sakurai left Nintendo just to make the same games. He's making the same games because he hasn't really left Nintendo.


You're right about him being talented. Just played Melee and some Brawl the other day, and it's beyond me how someone can come up with such a tight and creative game. The Smash Bros. series has something for just about anyone. It's just that good of a series, and I really hope he gives it his all for the next entry.
 
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