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The Witcher TV Show Writers 'Actively Disliked the Books and Games' - aka why the fuck do these Writers get these kinda jobs?

I don't get the point of even transfering the game to the screen, if they are not going to transfer it in an almost 1:1 manner. The original works success and in all of its performative merits are what warranted an adaptation in the first place. Sharing that same 'success' by ADAPTING it to the screen is basically doing the same thing"new audience"; It's opening up the game to people who wouldn't otherwise be assed to buy and install the game, in the first place.

This show has nothing going for it. Nothing. The casting, the story. I don't care for any of it. Why should I? The games do an already great job at cinematic storytelling and the kicker? I make the choices in these 'shows'.
The Witcher is one of the most pointless shows in recent memory. Given how the last 2 games are, I would expect nothing less than cynical Hollywood to fuck it right up, because the way games are written does not jive with modern pedowood.

The writers don´t go "how can we make this adaption as faithful and entertaining as possible for the fans? We really need to catch the essence of what made the books and games so great. We need to brainstorm to create an epic Witcher story that the fans will love and new people can get into"

The modern writing process is like this: "My gender study class told me women are getting more and more oppressed these days. My twitch thot friend only made 10k last week streaming. That damn patriarchy is really bad. Also blacks were slaves at one point. Those evil straight white men. We need to be on the right side of history. What can we use as a vehicle to spread the message? We need a popular IP that the masses watch. What about ____(Star Wars, The Terminator, The Witcher, Ghostbuster *insert anything that is beloved by fans and popular*). Now let´s hire someone hot like Henry Cavill so that people will actually watch the show and will overlook the social engineering and shitty writing.
 
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Fbh

Member
I don't think you need to be a fan of the source material to work on an adaption. But actively hating it? Yeah that's another story.

Thee problem goes back to what it has always been. The only thing that matters is knowing the right people.
Hate the source material? Doesn't matter you know the right people you are hired. Have worked on mostly terrible stuff with terrible critical and audience reception? Doesn't matter you know the right people so you are hired.
 
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Kadve

Member
I don't think you need to be a fan of the source material to work on an adaption. But actively hating it? Yeah that's another story.
Back on Resetera before i got banned (made the mistake of going against popular opinion :messenger_smirking:) i actually wrote an article on this subject. Turns out that hating the source material can actually be a good thing for an adaption if you can channel that hatred into a good parody/satire of it (while also being professional). Even being indifferent to the source material can also be a good thing as it allows you to make something without being shackled to your own expectations.

But yea there was also just as many cases where it was a bad thing.

 
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Boneless

Member
The series are awesome, so they are doing something right.

Also, if they disliked it that means they read/played it, which is a respectable investment.
 
The writers don´t go "how can we make this adaption as faithful and entertaining as possible for the fans? We really need to catch the essence of what made the books and games so great. We need to brainstorm to create an epic Witcher story that the fans will love and new people can get into"

The modern writing process is like this: "My gender study class told me women are getting more and more oppressed these days. My twitch thot friend only made 10k last week streaming. That damn patriarchy is really bad. Also blacks were slaves at one point. Those evil straight white men. We need to be on the right side of history. What can we use as a vehicle to spread the message? We need a popular IP that the masses watch. What about ____(Star Wars, The Terminator, The Witcher, Ghostbuster *insert anything that is beloved by fans and popular*). Now let´s hire someone hot like Henry Cavill so that people will actually watch the show and will overlook the social engineering and shitty writing.

I can't say I disagree. They are really just destroying good possibility with the mundane thinking that relates to checking off boxes that deranged people keep laser focusing on.
In a way, when I do find something I am willing to spend time with, it comes to a great surprise when it turns out to be... Good.
 

chromhound

Member
Please don't screw up One Piece, Netflix
Cracking Up Lol GIF
Spider Man Lol GIF
Funny GIF
Michael Jordan Lol GIF
 
Why? Because the translation from game to TV isn't direct. You have to have an understanding of the film medium and format. The Witcher is a great translation so them liking it obviously isn't a requirement. How many times have we hear "so and so loves the source" then makes a terrible translation to a different medium.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Why? Because the translation from game to TV isn't direct. You have to have an understanding of the film medium and format. The Witcher is a great translation so them liking it obviously isn't a requirement. How many times have we hear "so and so loves the source" then makes a terrible translation to a different medium.
The game is direct translation from the book... now you do the math on that one. ;)
 
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Toons

Member
If it didn't click when you went to a star wars movie and instead of swashbuckling space adventure you a got a purple haired lady giving a feminist lecture, this is a culture being destroyed from the inside. The people controlling things hate the things, and hate the people that like the things, and will use the dumb things as a platform for their wonderful ideas and if that fails they'll burn the things to the ground

Rian Johnson loves star wars and has since he was a child. George Lucas is a feminist and created one of the biggest feminist icons of the 80s.

What even is this post lol.

Anyways, liking a property doesnt make you a good writer and not liking a property doesn't make you a bad one.

No one cares anymore if the show is more diverse that doesnt equate to hatred of the source material so much as disdain of the racist and sexust trends that Hollywood ran on for decades. That sort of disdain im game for.
 

Toons

Member
The writers don´t go "how can we make this adaption as faithful and entertaining as possible for the fans? We really need to catch the essence of what made the books and games so great. We need to brainstorm to create an epic Witcher story that the fans will love and new people can get into"

The modern writing process is like this: "My gender study class told me women are getting more and more oppressed these days. My twitch thot friend only made 10k last week streaming. That damn patriarchy is really bad. Also blacks were slaves at one point. Those evil straight white men. We need to be on the right side of history. What can we use as a vehicle to spread the message? We need a popular IP that the masses watch. What about ____(Star Wars, The Terminator, The Witcher, Ghostbuster *insert anything that is beloved by fans and popular*). Now let´s hire someone hot like Henry Cavill so that people will actually watch the show and will overlook the social engineering and shitty writing.

Imagine your brain actually functioning like this.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Eh, the second season was so terrible I didn't even finish it. Already gave up on the show.

Even in the first season they had a habit of gutting the short stories they were adapting. I get that some of that was due to the TV budget, but you could also tell they were falling over themselves to try to "one up" the source, and they just aren't as good of writers as Sapkowski and their changes rarely worked.
 

solidus12

Member
The only thing I remember about this show is the show runner’s amazing pair of breasts when she was showing cleavage…

The show in itself was shite not very convincing either compared to GoT or HoTD.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
This is a hell of a take.

As an artist, I'm telling you....you do not need to "like" or be a "fan" of something to do a commission that looks good. It doesn't make sense, it has nothing to do with the actual craft itself and passion is overrated.

Liking something or being a fan of something is not fucking giving you magical powers anymore then loving a big mac would make someone this expert on burgers or something. It merely means you like something, that doesn't mean you have the skills to produce the equivalent. It doesn't mean loving it is needed to create it or something. I know chefs that are vegan that can cook better steaks then me. In South Florida we had this fair with rides and food and my friends family always had a both for Italian food, one year we had a booth right next to some station that was doing steaks. We were next to them for 3 days, traded food, talked...it was only on that last day where when we were all exchanging food so it didn't go to waste that one of them told me they were a vegan and didn't eat meat and didn't want it to go to waste.

I learned something very, very valuable as an artist that day even though cooking isn't my profession or anything, you do not need to "LOVE" something to do it well, you need to know what someone ELSE loves to produce it well. The goal is making it for them, it is a contract, commission etc. I think people get in their minds that producing art NEEDS to be based on some process of "loving" the IP or genre or something and I see no evidence of that, think about it like this...when anyone here works retail, they go thru that whole orientation shit and tell you how much the company loves you and will give you a pizza party blah blah blah....I'm 99% sure all of us here can do a great job in those positions, one didn't NEED to be a fan of Home Depot to do the job lol

That is the same thing with art. You'll be surprised how many do commissions on IP they actually hate, but that has nothing to do with their ability to produce quality art and it starts to become insulting to even entertain that they needed to love this or that.
 

Nico_D

Member
If you don't like the source material, maybe you should decline from the writing gig? That would be professional.

The show is still watchable. There's good and there's bad but for me it is still on the plus side of watchability. Henry Cavill helps a lot.

That is the same thing with art. You'll be surprised how many do commissions on IP they actually hate, but that has nothing to do with their ability to produce quality art and it starts to become insulting to even entertain that they needed to love this or that.[/quote)

Well I'm an artist too, been writing for 30 years and professionally about 20. I don't believe all you said to be true.

Sure, you can do your job even if you don't "love" the IP, we've seen this done with Star Trek for years now. And by love, I mean respect and understanding of the original material and characters. If you don't have that, then you are just imitating. Art in itself is imitation but this is in a sense imitating art: you are going through the motion and create something which the artist thinks resembles art.

But without "love" it is just a product. Of course a professional can do that.
 
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EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
If you don't like the source material, maybe you should decline from the writing gig? That would be professional.

I greatly disagree.

Their profession is based on their skill and craft of what they are able to do, not some thoughtcrime on if they like something or not. So they are hired based on their ability, not fanboyism. Someone can fucking be a fanboy of any IP and have zero skill and have this shit flop.

Being a fan of something doesn't magically give you powers folks.

They need to know enough of the source material to create something, they don't need to like what was in that source material as that doesn't really make much sense, as are you looking for a writer, director, producer etc, or are you looking for some fanboy or something? So this is overrated and people put a shit load of focus on this fucking thing with no evidence that its suddenly going to make something better or worse as if no skill is involved in writing. You can't prove if someone likes something or not outside of them saying so and for all you know, many adaptions of shows that have been successful, may have been done by people that didn't give a shit about the source material and merely just said they did to get people to shut the fuck up about it.

Do we not all lie on some application asking how much we lovvvvve Best Buy? lol I'm sure someone can do that job though, so I've done contracted or commission work where I wasn't a fan of the IP, I did that all the time and some times they'd ask me "Do I watch My Hero Academia?" ...."nope" lol If I'm using reference for a contract, some times I'd play parts of some anime or game or something to see some angle or effect, but other then that....I don't need to be a fucking fan of the work to create the work.

Where anyone got some idea like that based on a craft or skill is beyond me
 

Nico_D

Member
I greatly disagree.

Their profession is based on their skill and craft of what they are able to do, not some thoughtcrime on if they like something or not. So they are hired based on their ability, not fanboyism. Someone can fucking be a fanboy of any IP and have zero skill and have this shit flop.

Being a fan of something doesn't magically give you powers folks.

They need to know enough of the source material to create something, they don't need to like what was in that source material as that doesn't really make much sense, as are you looking for a writer, director, producer etc, or are you looking for some fanboy or something? So this is overrated and people put a shit load of focus on this fucking thing with no evidence that its suddenly going to make something better or worse as if no skill is involved in writing. You can't prove if someone likes something or not outside of them saying so and for all you know, many adaptions of shows that have been successful, may have been done by people that didn't give a shit about the source material and merely just said they did to get people to shut the fuck up about it.

Do we not all lie on some application asking how much we lovvvvve Best Buy? lol I'm sure someone can do that job though, so I've done contracted or commission work where I wasn't a fan of the IP, I did that all the time and some times they'd ask me "Do I watch My Hero Academia?" ...."nope" lol If I'm using reference for a contract, some times I'd play parts of some anime or game or something to see some angle or effect, but other then that....I don't need to be a fucking fan of the work to create the work.

Where anyone got some idea like that based on a craft or skill is beyond me

Sorry but after all the fucks and shits and lols you lost me. I thought we were having a discussion. My bad.
 
Rian Johnson loves star wars and has since he was a child.
A statement not supported by the evidence at all. Maybe you can find him doing a PR puff piece interview where he says that, but the movie he made is much stronger evidence to the contrary.

George Lucas is a feminist and created one of the biggest feminist icons of the 80s.
The gold bikini princess? I don't think that's how feminism works

What even is this post lol.
An observation of the bleak times ahead under the current astro-turfed corpo cultural powers.

Anyways, liking a property doesnt make you a good writer and not liking a property doesn't make you a bad one.
This statement is correct. The witcher show writers wouldn't suddenly become talented magically if they were to start working on an original property that no fanbase was previously invested in. But imagine if they were capable of making good shows, do you understand how writers who hate something people like, don't respect the thing and aren't trying to capture what people like about the thing aren't going to produce something in the spirit of said thing, producing instead something bearing its name while not really being like it?

No one cares anymore if the show is more diverse that doesnt equate to hatred of the source material so much as disdain of the racist and sexust trends that Hollywood ran on for decades. That sort of disdain im game for.

You're right to say no one cares if shows are diverse, because shows were diverse long before the current era of hatred towards the source material and nobody had a problem with it. Why is it then, that fanboys who liked Lando Calrissian and liked Mace Windu are suddenly toxic racists now when they criticize disney's crappy new star wars output? The diversity isn't the problem, it's corpos and their useful idiots using diversity as a fake morality shield so they can claim to be "good" while destroying the things they hate, which they call "fixing the past."

The current "better" hollywood is more racist and sexist than ever. Couples write screenplays together and on submission are asked to take the man's name off the screenplay so it can be sold as written by a woman. Disney lectures critics for being racist in free western countries and then shrinks black actors on posters to sell movies to China. Men are increasingly portrayed as incompetent or evil. There's plenty of discrimination on the basis of race/gender, it's just towards fashionable, approved targets. If the people controlling things were good writers with good intentions they could make amazing original shows starring women, since they're hateful hacks they make awful shows starring beloved established characters where they demote the star to a smaller role in their own show so they can make some supporting female character take over, like in Kenobi or Witcher.
 

Toons

Member
A statement not supported by the evidence at all. Maybe you can find him doing a PR puff piece interview where he says that, but the movie he made is much stronger evidence to the contrary.

No its not. Its got more deep cut references than any casual star wars fan would ever be privy too. In fact its quite obvious by watching it how much of a star wars nerd he is. References to obscure books published in the past and more.
The gold bikini princess? I don't think that's how feminism works

Then you don't know much about feminism. That same character uses her own chains to kill her captor.

A character being sexy or wearing skimpy attire is not anti feminist lol.
An observation of the bleak times ahead under the current astro-turfed corpo cultural powers.


This statement is correct. The witcher show writers wouldn't suddenly become talented magically if they were to start working on an original property that no fanbase was previously invested in. But imagine if they were capable of making good shows, do you understand how writers who hate something people like, don't respect the thing and aren't trying to capture what people like about the thing aren't going to produce something in the spirit of said thing, producing instead something bearing its name while not really being like it?
No? Because what people like about the thing doesn't make a thing good in and of itself either. It being good does that. Hugo weaving has hated a lot of projects he was in but he still did good. Mark Hamill wasn't feeling lukes treatment on TLJ but he still put in the work and delivered a great performance. It happens all the time.

Look no further than the prequel trilogy to see this. That was George Lucas own brainchild and most of it is nigh unwatchable at this point. Sure it has stuff we like about star wars in it but ultimately those movies fall flat because those things are just surface level additions with little depth facilitated by the story.

You're right to say no one cares if shows are diverse, because shows were diverse long before the current era of hatred towards the source material and nobody had a problem with it. Why is it then, that fanboys who liked Lando Calrissian and liked Mace Windu are suddenly toxic racists now when they criticize disney's crappy new star wars output? The diversity isn't the problem, it's corpos and their useful idiots using diversity as a fake morality shield so they can claim to be "good" while destroying the things they hate, which they call "fixing the past."
Thats ridiculous.

For starters, calling 1 or 2 token black guys in a sea of other characters is not "diversity" lol. For two, if you're criticizing newer surface simply because they use minoritiy character and attaching the quality to that, then that IS pretty toxic considering I doubt most would like the project better if they had just cast mor white people.

And you say companies use it as a shield but that doesn't really happen. There is no "shield" but there is dismissal of criticism that tries to implicate the diversity of rhe cast with the drop in quality. Anyone should be able to see through that nonsense.

The current "better" hollywood is more racist and sexist than ever. Couples write screenplays together and on submission are asked to take the man's name off the screenplay so it can be sold as written by a woman.
My guy this isnr a new trend, you just recently found out about it. Its been going on for decades and is a remnant of older entertainment that needs to be appeased to.

Disney lectures critics for being racist in free western countries and then shrinks black actors on posters to sell movies to China.

That ess overblown. Look up the poster for the second movie and he features prominently on there even in China. Sure, they may have capitulated to Chinese censors originally bu they didn't stick with that. I'll take omprofnenr over perfection.

Men are increasingly portrayed as incompetent or evil. There's plenty of discrimination on the basis of race/gender, it's just towards fashionable, approved targets.

Again, nothing new. Why do you think we got so many Russian villains during he higher of the cold War?

Like... these movies are art pieces put they are also corporate products design to appeal to an audience. That has always been the case. Thats why they do test audiences and things and change scenes around if their demograohic doesn't respond well.

What has happened is that audience has changed. Not only has it changed to involve a much more diverse swath of people(which also increases capitalist potential) but a portion of it has also changed to be vocally and virulent opposed to even the normal levels of diversity we've gotten before. Those people need to be pushed away regardless. They don't belong anymore.

Opinions on the indivudal shoes and whatever is all well and good but trying to reduce all media down to some simple ideological warfare is juvenile. Thrrrd for more nuance to the discussion than that.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
? they don't need to like it to do the job.

I never understand this weird fanboy, gatekeeping, thoughtcrime type shit.

So you are mad they are not as big as fanboys as you? Someone can still write a story and dislike the last story and still have that story match the elements needed. Thats like fucking saying someone NEEDS TO LOVE A BIG MAC to fucking work at McDonalds (shows yellow chai......big mac jacket) =)
:goog_confused:

You have to care about the source material to adapt fantasy properly. Fantasy is about lore and worldbuilding, all the little details that effectively transport you somewhere magical and suspend your disbelief. It’s a commitment. Someone like Ryan Condal made that commitment with House of the Dragon and it shows. Peter Jackson took years off his life to make it happen with LotR.

Failing to do so results in worthless trash like The Dark Tower movie or Rings of Power or Netflix Witcher.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
You have to care about the source material to adapt fantasy properly.

You have to merely understand that source material, nothing in regards to living it, loving it or caring about it is necessary.

Failing to do so results in worthless trash like

annnnd we've seen trash from fanboys alike ie the Resident Evil films.

Liking any work doesn't magically mean someone can make a great game, movie or book. It merely means you really like something....

As an artist, I've seen no evidence that liking or loving something will suddenly increase any skill, craft, capability or profession. I've seen artist that create amazing works that literally don't even like the original source material ..that doesn't determine anyone's actual skill.
 
look at most other adapted trash tier shows like resident evil or the lotr. employees are mostly soy based american activists and don't honor the source material or listen to fan feedback. a top tier recipe for disaster. but probably have a degree and fit into companies diversity quotas -
 
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EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
look at most other adapted trash tier shows like resident evil or the lotr. employees are mostly soy based american activists and don't honor the source material or listen to fan feedback. a top tier recipe for disaster. but probably have a degree and fit into companies diversity quotas -

nah, it merely means you don't like those adaptions.

Thats about it.

Something being good or bad simply can't just hinge on do they "have a degree" or "fanz feedbackz".

1. Liking some shit doesn't mean all that you produce will be loved, that doesn't make any sense and is mathematically impossible.

2. Even the fucking people that make said source as in Capcom or something have made bad fucking games THESELVES, you telling me no one there knows their own game or? Maybe they just made a bad game bud, thats it.

3. Even using the source material doesn't guarantee 100% success, its silly to even think any of that tbh. The RE Netflix show uses tons of shit from the IP, from the piano having some sort of puzzle, to the giant worm, to the cult RE4 references, to the conspiracy with a reporter snooping around etc Still turned out bad.

Maybe it was from fans, maybe not. All I can say is they know the source material as way too much was referenced to say otherwise, they simply made a bad show no different then Capcom made some bad games.


Where anyone getting this odd shit that liking, loving or caring about something magically means NOTHING will be shit is beyond me. All can have an opinion about something and it turning out bad may have nothing to do with if the creator cared or liked the IP, as they can love the IP and still just make a bad film, bad game, Capcom themselves made some bad games.
 

jakinov

Member
Lots of people acting like fans of the books make up a majority of the viewership when it's likely that vast majority of the viewers don't care about the books. The show is doing realy well in viewership and critics love it. Fans of the books are mad. Some subset of the book fans and some subset of the game fans mad about not having sexy characters that look the video game models. But overall the show has been doing well.

Some of the writers not liking the source material is not a huge deal. You can not like the source material and still make a good show. As individual writers you don't not have full control with where the show goes, it's the showrunner i.e. head writer who has ultimate say. You can have writers who contribute to fixing dialogue and help you get to where you want to go. They don't need to love the books. Especially since they only get a translation of the material. Back before this show people used to talk about how they couldn't get into the books or how they don't like the english translation. If you get shoddy english dialogue and descriptions of things ypu are going to be more proned to people disliking it. The people who don't like the books probably aren't the ones deciding not to follow the book page by page. In terms of character choices it's debateable and people even argue Yenefer from the games isn't that accurate to the books but nobody really cares.

Generally speaking, being faithful to the source material is important to only some extent. You don't need to be faithful to make a good adaptation. There are some great adaptations that aren't faithful that are critically accalimed and crowed pleasers. The ones that come to mind are the LOTR movies, Nolan Batman Trilogy and The Shining. You could make the argument that most MCU movies aren't that faifthful to the comics. They don't tell stories page by page, they change a lot of back story, merge characters. give certain roles to other characters, change up events and change up personalities.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
As an artist, I've seen no evidence that liking or loving something will suddenly increase any skill, craft, capability or profession. I've seen artist that create amazing works that literally don't even like the original source material ..that doesn't determine anyone's actual skill.
As an artist…? Relevance?
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
Lots of people acting like fans of the books make up a majority of the viewership when it's likely that vast majority of the viewers don't care about the books.
The show got made because the games became popular. The games became popular because of the books and the world.
So I would say there is a direct link between the show and the books. Also to some peon posting on Polygon that ‘the book have little literary merit’ - they in fact do, even more so in Polish.
 

RickSanchez

Member
Phew! Long debate!

I think there is merit to both sides:

One one hand, someone with previous experience of writing scripts which translate well into good screenplays for TV and Movies i.e a seasoned TV/Movie writer can do good things with adapting a book or a game for the screen, because they can switch things around well and make it more immersive from a passive-watching point of view. The flow of the script has to be different for TV compared to a book or a game, and an experienced TV writer can do that well.

On the other hand, when switching things up to make it better for TV, there is always a risk of violating lore or continuity of the fictional world. This risk is mitigated greatly if the writer knows the source material well. Someone who knows and has respect for the source material will keep their character changes and story changes in-line with established lore, which will make the story easier to digest.

The problem with examples like Rings Of Power or The Witcher is that the writers seem to be neither i.e neither pure writing skill nor caring for the source material, whereas in order to make a good adaptation, you need a bit of both.

Here's hoping writers of the HBO Last of Us series get it right.
 
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jakinov

Member
The show got made because the games became popular. The games became popular because of the books and the world.
So I would say there is a direct link between the show and the books. Also to some peon posting on Polygon that ‘the book have little literary merit’ - they in fact do, even more so in Polish.
Who said there wasn't a link? My point is most people watching the show probably don't care about the books. Most people playing the games probably don't care about the books. Most people who watch Marvel movies probably don't care much for the comics.

Not sure what you are talking about about some peon posting on Polygon. I dind't say anything about the books not having literary merit but I did bring up that people used to talk about not enjoying the english translation and the fact that you said "they in fact do, even more so in Polish" you are in agreement.
 

mxbison

Member
Did we watch the same show? I liked it a lot!

Yeah, surprised to see so much hate for it.

First season had a nice mix of the different timelines building up the story and episodes that really had a nice sidequest feeling. Mix that with brutal fight scenes, a good Geralt performance, and Yennefer's glorious tits and you'd think it's everything a Witcher fan could want.

But hey it's on Netflix so it has to be trash.
 

Azurro

Banned
Also, I am not surprised that the Witcher source material might not be appealing to 25-year-olds growing up in the West. The series is based heavily in Polish humour with Slavic mythology and folklore, it's also a product of its time (Sapkowski started writing in in 1980s). There are a lot of swearing in the Polish edition, and the first book starts with Geralt having sex (this is literally in the first paragraph).

Oh yeah, slavic cultures are mostly known for their wokeness. Don't be ridiculous.
 

Denton

Member
You have to merely understand that source material, nothing in regards to living it, loving it or caring about it is necessary.
If you don't like it, there is very little hope you understand it, let alone are able to adapt it. You will always be tempted to change it, because you think you are better than it's author. This is not rocket science. And it's exactly why netflixer is such trash despite few badtaste weirdos liking it.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
You have to merely understand that source material, nothing in regards to living it, loving it or caring about it is necessary.
Maybe? But it absolutely does help make better adaptation, I mean isn’t common sense that you should love source material in order understand it better?
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Is this the same article that shows how awesome Henry Cavil is because he often had to stop certain or scenes to tell them how it would be in the actual games or how the characters would react more in line with the source? AKA, Henry Cavil is holding down this show on his own because he's a fan.
Well, he was...



As for the rest, the writers don’t have to like the source material but they sure as hell need to respect it and study it thoroughly.
They need to understand what gave popularity to the franchise and to whom it caters otherwise the purpose in buying the rights is lost as they alienate the fans (who eventually become a group of people dedicated to shitting on the series in social media) and lose the initial word-of-mouth audience boost. At that point, they're just better off creating something original.

The case with the Witcher's screenwriters is that they apparently don't even respect the source material nor the fans of the books and games.
They're just another bunch of mediocre millennials and gen-zs filled with high-school participation trophies to whom their parents kept telling them they were special and they were going to change the world, so they convinced themselves they can do better than the book author who sold 15 million books and the videogame developers who sold 65 million games.
 
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Ballthyrm

Member
So to sum up:
1. Hardcore fan as a writer = same existing audience
2. Regular writer = same existing audience (the fans will watch just to complain, see Amazon's RoP) + new audience

I don't think that's right. What they need to do is make regular people understand what hardcore fans are seeing in that franchise.
Most of the time it will be just a barrier due to the medium, not a lot of people read books, so all you have to do is adapt it as it is.
If the franchise is already a mainstream book success there is more than a good chance that it will appeal to anyone (It is very hard to get a Fantasy book mainstream like Witcher or the like)

You gain the new audience by keeping everything that the hardcore loved, not by trimming it and dumbing it down.
It is insulting to the hardcore fans and even more insulting to the general audience because you are basically implying that they are too dumb to get what was written in a book liked by millions.

Game of Thrones (the first seasons) proved that you can have complex and numerous character with subtle plotlines.
There is no need for "mainstream" adaptation, when you say that all I hear is "we need to make it simple for the simple-minded folks"
Here is what GRRM and Neil Gaiman think about it.


Arcane and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners are the exceptions to the rule that videogame adaptations suck.
Be the exception.

I think it has more to do with the Animation Studios themselves than the showrunners.
You will have a hard time finding passionless corporate drones when they working 10 hours days for months on ends.
That's not where the type of place you are going to find people disinterested in video games or people who think they are better than that.
The exception here is the time and money they got and that they were trusted and left to do their own thing.

Time is a huge, Yuge factor
 
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GeekyDad

Member
Agree/disagree on all sorts of elements of the matter, but the main thing for me is this:

"Beau DeMayo, a former producer and writer on The Witcher, has claimed that some writers on the Netflix series "actively disliked" Andrzej Sapkowski's books and CD Projekt Red's games."

At that point, I stop giving the article any consideration. That's not reporting, that's sensationalizing. Whether gaming or not, you're still considering the article as news. It ain't.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
If you don't like it, there is very little hope you understand it
Doubt. You don't need to like anything to be skillful at something and to understand something. Creating art can be about passion, that doesn't mean that is the key requirement for making all things, its absurd and ones ability to create is not 100% solely on some idea of loving, liking or being passionate about some property. You can still create lots of great work from adaptions merely just knowing all the elements needed to execute, one doesn't need to subjectively like those ideas.

They merely need to be able to recognize and understand it.
Maybe? But it absolutely does help make better adaptation
It can help for sure as liking anything can help some process like this, but the skill, craft, knowledge and ability of the artist comes first.

Not fanboyism.

No love or liking is needed to understand source material. As in, you can understand the loop of romantic comedies and even horror without being a fan of either, but that isn't any different then understanding art language or terminology and being able to recognize certain things to repeat if you where using some source that was the target of what would be some theme of other pieces or something.

Put it like this, look at all the Unreal Engine fan made crap all over the web, has anyone being a fanboy of any of those things really resulted in them being better then the originals in regards to being a fully playable thing? Liking it or loving it might drive you to do it sure, that doesn't mean that will magically transform something into a functional thing where actual craftsmanship and technical knowledge is necessary to build or create.
As an artist…? Relevance?


I'm an artist, many contracts, commissions or jobs I've done have had little to nothing to do with if I like some company or a story or anything of the sort to actually do any contract. It can be nice, sure some people love doing fanart, but the ability to do something has no actual requirement someone likes the source material as thats as odd as saying I must love the reference of some lady I'm painting or something. I generally don't, but none of those things have anything to do with creating those types of works....like almost zero.

Like I said to Dan, it can help, but the actual skill and ability comes before anything else. Would be like thinking all publishers would have to do is hire the biggest fanboys as directors...and what? Zero flops? All games, films and shows would all be successful or?

More components exist to creating then one's personal opinion on source material. Consider even some of the works by the people that directly did the source material for some of this flopped too lol So they not fans of what they created either? Maybe something can be bad regardless if someone was a fan or not.
 

Razvedka

Banned
George Lucas is a feminist and created one of the biggest feminist icons of the 80s.
Leah? I dunno man.

In the sci-fi genre alone, you had these two heavy hitting 'feminist icons in the 80s'*:
- Sarah Connor
- Ellen Ripley*

*Technically, Ripley debuted in 79' and Leah in 77'. But obviously big sequels hit in the 80s.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
Leah? I dunno man.

In the sci-fi genre alone, you had these two heavy hitting 'feminist icons in the 80s'*:
- Sarah Connor
- Ellen Ripley*

*Technically, Ripley debuted in 79' and Leah in 77'. But obviously big sequels hit in the 80s.

I love em more btw, but I'd still agree that Princess Leia and Star Wars in general is far bigger.

If you ask anyone who Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley are off the street or show a picture, I doubt more will know them vs Leia. So biggest in terms of popularity, recognizability etc. If I had to put one of em on like who wants to be a Billionaire or something and call a random house to and hope to god the knew one of em, I'd have to go with Leia, that is just a more sure thing lol
 

thefool

Member
Why? Defilement, cultural indoctrination, etc. They dislike the fanbases, what they believe, what the author believes, the culture it represents, so instead of properly adapt it they will buy its rights, rip it apart and inject their own bias and ideals. It's the corruption of art.

The good thing is that it's easy to avoid, you just have to not watch this crap, especially when we have 100 years of worldwide audiovisual culture to appreciate. Reject their befoulment.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I'm an artist, many contracts, commissions or jobs I've done have had little to nothing to do with if I like some company or a story or anything of the sort to actually do any contract. It can be nice, sure some people love doing fanart, but the ability to do something has no actual requirement someone likes the source material as thats as odd as saying I must love the reference of some lady I'm painting or something. I generally don't, but none of those things have anything to do with creating those types of works....like almost zero.

Like I said to Dan, it can help, but the actual skill and ability comes before anything else. Would be like thinking all publishers would have to do is hire the biggest fanboys as directors...and what? Zero flops? All games, films and shows would all be successful or?

More components exist to creating then one's personal opinion on source material. Consider even some of the works by the people that directly did the source material for some of this flopped too lol So they not fans of what they created either? Maybe something can be bad regardless if someone was a fan or not.
There are very few parallels to illustration. Fantasy writing involves developing a separate lore/worldbuilding tome, often a full sized book in its own right, to reference when constructing prose. Deep knowledge and understanding of the material is an integral part of the process, even for the original author, and that requirement carries over to working with it effectively in an adaptation.
 
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