The Wonderful 101 Review Thread

I don't really see the fuss these scores are making. If the majority likes it, why would you be mad at a couple that didn’t like it? Hell, such things shouldn't take away from your enjoyment of the game.

I myself like a lot of games with 60% metacritic cores.
 
Replace the drawings by button presses? Hmm, I don't know but to me that sounds like the casual mode in Street Fighter 4 3DS where you just press those big buttons on the touchscreen to do a super/ultra. I guess options are good but seems like dumbing down the controls imo.

I think two questions are worth examining, here:

1. Is the input recognition working as intended? I understand that some mechanics are set up to intentionally require some learning curve. But if otherwise seemingly competent people are struggling to get inputs recognized correctly and/or it feels overly cumbersome, it may be worth considering that what's intuitive for one person may not be universally applicable across the board. That's not to say that any criticism should be taken to heart and that the existence of detractors means the mechanic is bad or faulty, but it's also true that just because the designer had a rationale for the implementation that doesn't mean it was automatically sound design.

2.) Is the barrier to entry intentional? Many people are making comparisons to fighting games, and I agree that it's a good place to look. Something worth considering is that -- in a competitive environment -- more advanced moves are made more difficult to pull off intentionally. It's not by accident that a simple jab requires one button press, while the dragon punch requires a more complex sequence of inputs. Now, does one think that's supposed to be the case with the drawing mechanic in Wonderful 101?
 
Now, does one think that's supposed to be the case with the drawing mechanic in Wonderful 101?
There are online leaderboards I believe, so I think it does. Harder to do move's should give higher points.

Casual players can still get the job done by simple keystrokes, while advanced players can compete for higher scores using more complex combo's.
 
I'm more concerned about the bloated runtime critics keep mentioning then the controls. Kamiya isn't averse to putting hours and hours of filler into his games, like say, the entirety of Okami, or recycling boss fights. Edge mentioned fighting the same boss five times, repeating "set piece" moments, etc.

Kamiya loves Resident Evil 6 confirmed.
 
^ I'd answer yes and yes, undoubtably.

There are also people that for all the money in the world can't pull out a hadoken.

and some of them are game journalists/reviews

This isn't a full review, but seems to be an editorial before the review

http://www.vg247.com/2013/08/19/is-the-wonderful-101-a-pretty-waste-on-wii-u/
Just paste the article into the thread.

I don't want to give them clicks with a title like that


Kamiya loves Resident Evil 6 confirmed.

P* Games loves showing you how badass you've become throughout the course of the game. Just like the classic nes games.
 
^ I'd answer yes and yes, undoubtably.

There are also people that for all the money in the world can't pull out an hadoken.

For what it's worth, when SFIV came out and people who had ignored fighting games entirely for 10 years noticed, IIRC there were a handful of reviews that essentially said: this unplayable archaic design shouldn't exist. I can't make a single move come out, controllers have plenty of buttons now, why isn't there just a fireball button!
 
That opinion piece makes a few digs at the Wii U's sales/userbase/"shit platform".

Interestingly the Edge reviewer had trouble with the controls and put in a dig at the platform towards the end.

Haven't had the chance to read all the reviews yet, but for those who have, have many of them had a dig at the console itself/sales of the console?
 
they are just sad to see this only on wii u where they say it will ignored........

no review score yet but i'm thinking around 6.5 due to being wii u exclusive.


you gotta love the...

"We want more new games on Nintendo systems"

then when they get them, they go

"Too bad this is on a Nintendo system and not on anything else"

You never get that with games like Gears of War or the Last of Us
 
1. Is the input recognition working as intended? I understand that some mechanics are set up to intentionally require some learning curve. But if otherwise seemingly competent people are struggling to get inputs recognized correctly and/or it feels overly cumbersome, it may be worth considering that what's intuitive for one person may not be universally applicable across the board. That's not to say that any criticism should be taken to heart and that the existence of detractors means the mechanic is bad or faulty, but it's also true that just because the designer had a rationale for the implementation that doesn't mean it was automatically sound design.

2.) Is the barrier to entry intentional? Many people are making comparisons to fighting games, and I agree that it's a good place to look. Something worth considering is that -- in a competitive environment -- more advanced moves are made more difficult to pull off intentionally. It's not by accident that a simple jab requires one button press, while the dragon punch requires a more complex sequence of inputs. Now, does one think that's supposed to be the case with the drawing mechanic in Wonderful 101?
1) I'd say yes it is recognizing inputs as intended. The game is only out in demo mode now an Youtube is already seeing speedruns and 100% runs put up on the game. People are able to pull off complex combos, just like other Platinum/Kamiya games. It would be one thing if required input were overly sensitive, but it certainly doesn't appear that way from preview evidence.

2) Again, I'd point to the demos that show people puling off very complex techniques in the game only after playing for a few days or less. To me, that's an indication of a competently made control scheme. We haven't seen the rest of the game yet, but I'm not putting too much stock into the reviews that criticize the control scheme when people are clearly pulling off advanced moves in the demo. Whether the control scheme is competent is one thing, and liking the control scheme is another- and I think that's what these reviews are failing to recognize. I don't really like Street Fighter's (or most other fighting games) control scheme, but I wouldn't give it anything less than a 9 because of that. I prefer SSB's fighting game controls. If I were a reviewer, I'd recognize this and try to learn Street Fighter's controls somewhat (or let an actual person who likes fighting games review). I really feel that these reviewers didn't do that. Part of it undoubtedly is because of the need to get reviews out the door, but I think another part is that videogame reviews are seen as "what is my personal opinion of this game?" rather than "is this game competent, and would other people possibly like this game?". Journalists are supposed to be objective, and while its difficult to be objective in a review of anything, one should at least remove their personal preferences from the review.
 
This isn't a full review, but seems to be an editorial before the review

http://www.vg247.com/2013/08/19/is-the-wonderful-101-a-pretty-waste-on-wii-u/

What a strange article.

Like, I get the idea. The game is good and it's a shame no one is going to play it due to the limited Wii U audience. I actually sympathize with that point.

But it seems to have nothing to do with the remainder of the text. The rest treats it like a Wonderful 101 review, followed by a "BY THE WAY THIS ISN'T A REVIEW," which is akin to watching someone run a football in to the end zone and then wonder why his teammates weren't running bases after his home run.

And while I do sympathize with his bookend-points that it's sad the game won't get more people to play it, I also kind of feel like..so what? That sucks, it's happened, enjoy the games we have and hope Platinum got paid up front. If I wrote an article every time a game I loved didn't sell well, I'd probably never get a chance to step away from my keyboard.

Play the games you love, love the games you enjoy, let someone else write the Euripides Tragedy that is their sales rankings and separate that completely from its quality.
 
2) Again, I'd point to the demos that show people puling off very complex techniques in the game only after playing for a few days or less. To me, that's an indication of a competently made control scheme. We haven't seen the rest of the game yet, but I'm not putting too much stock into the reviews that criticize the control scheme when people are clearly pulling off advanced moves in the demo. Whether the control scheme is competent is one thing, and liking the control scheme is another- and I think that's what these reviews are failing to recognize. I don't really like Street Fighter's (or most other fighting games) control scheme, but I wouldn't give it anything less than a 9 because of that. I prefer SSB's fighting game controls. If I were a reviewer, I'd recognize this and try to learn Street Fighter's controls somewhat (or let an actual person who likes fighting games review). I really feel that these reviewers didn't do that. Part of it undoubtedly is because of the need to get reviews out the door, but I think another part is that videogame reviews are seen as "what is my personal opinion of this game?" rather than "is this game competent, and would other people possibly like this game?". Journalists are supposed to be objective, and while its difficult to be objective in a review of anything, one should at least remove their personal preferences from the review.


BOLDED for truth.

It's the gamer's skills, not the controls.
 
From the sound of things, this is the classic case of getting more out of a game based on what you put in. Incidentally, this is one reason why P* games aren't everyone's cup if tea. Seems like TW101 is no different.

For some, the combat system may be too fast-paced, too deep to perfectly master, and moves can be tough to pull off consistently. For others seeking mastery, this may be the best action game they've played in a decade. That's the nature of these types of games. Someone is less likely to rave about the controls and combat system in Street Fighter if they can't consistently pull off hadoukens, nor exploit the combat depths. They can still have some fun, but in the end, their experience is extremely limited.

After seeing the demo, the mechanics in TW101 did turn out a bit more complex than I had imagined, but that's fine with me. It's clear now though, anyone looking for or expecting a casual experience, may walk away a bit disappointed/frustrated. The majority of GAF seems like they'd enjoy it based on the demo. For the casual masses, this one's a toss-up.
 
Edge never played Megaman, I guess. Or any other japanese classic action game, fwiw. Typical trope you'll always find, not just 'filler'.

It's a valid criticism as long as they're consistent with it in their reviews. There's a lot of critically acclaimed modern games that don't have a ton of enemy variety and basically recycle similar setpieces/scenarios.
 
BOLDED for truth.

It's the gamer's skills, not the controls.

this is the problem,
when a copy of the new street fighter lands on a reviewers desk,
even if they can't pull off half the moves in the game, they know for certain that other people out there can.
so when commenting on the controls they wouldn't dare say it's too hard to pull off half the moves or else they look bad.
If street fighter came out now for the first time ever, i'm certain half of the reviews would be similar, they would say it's broken.

So this game comes along and they all assume that the game is broken.
Wonderful 101 is a new series, without general public/player feedback.
platinum quickly got the demo out as soon as they started seeing reviewers comment on bad controls,
most people playing the demo were confused at first but after practice found them to be fine.
just like most action and fighting games this all comes down to practice,skill and not bad controls.
 
What a strange article.

Like, I get the idea. The game is good and it's a shame no one is going to play it due to the limited Wii U audience. I actually sympathize with that point.

But it seems to have nothing to do with the remainder of the text. The rest treats it like a Wonderful 101 review, followed by a "BY THE WAY THIS ISN'T A REVIEW," which is akin to watching someone run a football in to the end zone and then wonder why his teammates weren't running bases after his home run.

And while I do sympathize with his bookend-points that it's sad the game won't get more people to play it, I also kind of feel like..so what? That sucks, it's happened, enjoy the games we have and hope Platinum got paid up front. If I wrote an article every time a game I loved didn't sell well, I'd probably never get a chance to step away from my keyboard.

Play the games you love, love the games you enjoy, let someone else write the Euripides Tragedy that is their sales rankings and separate that completely from its quality.

Yeah I don't get it either

He has what seems like fair complaints, though he does beat on... don't listen to them still had fun with the game

But and this is something I didn't want, Wonderful 101 shouldn't be used as a talking point for the Wii U's current situation. Whether if it should be on the console, will turn the console's fortunes around or anything.

But seen a few mentions of this, just the first overt article with such a... misleading headline
 
almost every single one, even the positive ones got a dig in at the end.

That's a shame. Of course any issues with controls/combat mechanics etc with the game, I'm all ears (though I've played the demo and didn't have this issue), but really digs at the console/userbase/sales ought to ideally be left for separate editorials.
 
I stopped gaming except for Fifa over the last few years because of school/work but this is the type of stuff that makes me think about starting again. If the 3d Mario looks good, and they put out one other game that interests me, then I will buy a wii u in December. The older I've gotten the more I've begun to lose focus playing more serious games. I just don't have attention span for it.
 
Pretty good scores, I didn't expect any 9 because "lol not system seller lol" just like with Pikmin 3.
Still, I never trusted reviews about my gaming purchase and I'm glad I don't otherwise I would have missed tons of awesome games. I feel sorry for people wanting 9+/10 AAA games or no buy.
 
Some games are easier to review than others, and sometimes I remove the score and just read the review.

Reviews are a way of knowing if a game is good or not, but they have a lot of flaws and should not be taken as the final verdict. Try what others are saying, demos and finally playing the damn game as the final verdict.

There are hundreds of examples. I am way into Bioshock Infinite and so far I think it is a solid game but not a 9 or GOTY. I enjoyed the W101 demo more than Bioshock Infinite. Sometimes you have to go with word of mouth but ultimately you just have to play the damn game by yourself.

There are lots of simple yet fun games that get 7s. ZombiU is now a classic example of the majority of people who played the game not coinciding with the reviewers.

In the end still I see a lot of positive reviews for TW101, the demo sold me on the game.
 
Pretty good scores, I didn't expect any 9 because "lol not system seller lol" just like with Pikmin 3.
Still, I never trusted reviews about my gaming purchase and I'm glad I don't otherwise I would have missed tons of awesome games. I feel sorry for people wanting 9+/10 AAA games or no buy.

especially after getting burned by so many of the "so called" perfect games (at least thats the case for me).
 
It's ironic the exact features Nintendo based its platform on (Gamepad functionality, intuitive controls) was 101's undoing.

There’s a good game in here, but it’s smothered by the need to conform to its host platform’s feature set
That quote from EDGE is damning. Yikes.
 
are you sitting down?
i have some bad news...
My bad. Just realized it prob wont be out for a while lol.

I will get a wii u when it has 3 games I want tho. Prob this, super Mario 3d and Zelda/Metroid..whenever that happens then ill pick one up.

Edit: ign says Mario 3d world is coming in December 2013?
 
I think two questions are worth examining, here:

1. Is the input recognition working as intended? I understand that some mechanics are set up to intentionally require some learning curve. But if otherwise seemingly competent people are struggling to get inputs recognized correctly and/or it feels overly cumbersome, it may be worth considering that what's intuitive for one person may not be universally applicable across the board. That's not to say that any criticism should be taken to heart and that the existence of detractors means the mechanic is bad or faulty, but it's also true that just because the designer had a rationale for the implementation that doesn't mean it was automatically sound design.

I'm not sure input recognition is the issue. because unlike a fighting game it's not interpreting quick digital inputs so much as it's interpreting lines and shapes and sizes. Maybe that's the same thing inside a game but it's different from the perception of the player.

In that the game is able to you so much useful feedback that helps you learn to do the shapes correctly if you're the kind of person who can pick up on it. Whenever the game accepts a shape as a form, the line you've drawn will glow in the color of that form.

So not only does this communicate to the player what form they will be getting, but it also allows the player to sort of figure out what the system accepts and what it doesn't. Like in the process of drawing a circle for Red, the line will start glowing red before you even close the circle, letting the player know that half circles are acceptable. It also will go black if you go too far or cross the lines, letting the player know that doing such is unacceptable.

You'd be surprised what it accepts if you play around with it. Like for whip it'll recognize any double half circles, not just S shapes. I've been drawing the mcdonalds logo to use pink in the demo. lol

So I don't think there's any issues with "input recognition". I think the issue's people are having are with not being able to consistently do the forms with the given control schemes. because there should be no surprises with what you get. Game not only let's you know ahead of time what you will get with your current shape, but at the same time let's you see exactly what you drew so you're able to assess why what your action got the result it did.

Is the barrier to entry intentional? Many people are making comparisons to fighting games, and I agree that it's a good place to look. Something worth considering is that -- in a competitive environment -- more advanced moves are made more difficult to pull off intentionally. It's not by accident that a simple jab requires one button press, while the dragon punch requires a more complex sequence of inputs. Now, does one think that's supposed to be the case with the drawing mechanic in Wonderful 101?

I don't think that's the case at all. Not only are the forms intentionally lenient and simple, they're also extremely intuitive. The shape for whip makes you think whip. Same with gun, sword, bomb, hammer etc.

While in fighting games the inputs are at times completely arbitrary. There's often little to no common logic between the motion and the type of move it yields to the layman

101 also gives you the visual feedback to assess your mistakes. If you wanted a hammer and are getting a whip, the game will show you that before you even press the button to confirm it, allowing you to assess why you got the wrong shape and make adjustments for next time.

So I don't think the system was designed to be difficult at all. I think the exact opposite. It was designed to be as simple and intuitive as it could possibly be while still being the game that it is.

But if otherwise seemingly competent people are struggling to get inputs recognized correctly and/or it feels overly cumbersome, it may be worth considering that what's intuitive for one person may not be universally applicable across the board.

I think it's worth considering, but at the same time I also realize that most people usually get through these games with "brute force" and don't really pay attention to all the things the game is trying to tell you.

So while I realize and accept the possibility that the control scheme may not be 100% ideal, I also realize and understand that not everyone who plays the game may be aware of how to use it.

So obviously it's just something you gotta judge for yourself. People really shouldn't be drawing conclusions either way without playing for themselves
 
It's ironic the exact features Nintendo based its platform on (Gamepad functionality, intuitive controls) was 101's undoing.


That quote from EDGE is damning. Yikes.

Thank god we have at least the demo to figure it out ourselves and not depend on some incompetent reviewer!!!
 
The fun thing about the reviews that bash the game because of it being on the Wii U is that you can play with the right stick, and that is exactly how you would play the game in other systems!
 
1) Whether the control scheme is competent is one thing, and liking the control scheme is another- and I think that's what these reviews are failing to recognize.

I second this. Everyone is free to like or dislike the controls, this is one thing, but to claim that the controls are broken is a totally different thing. And this I don't like. Because if controls are broken, then they are for everyone. And this is the most contested thing about the reviews.

And actually, if you want to see if this is about difficulty or a software issue you can just play on the Very easy mode (like I played the demo on the first run - after reading some comments here on GAF about the learning curve). And then you will see it recognizes 100% of what you do if you follow some basic rules ( don't cross the line in a circle, do the gun starting with the smaller line etc). You are at any moment in control of what you are drawing seeing both the trace and the color (of what the games assumes to be). When you switch to normal it may happen that being under pressure makes you miss some shape, but that's like you would have missed a "press X to block" move in another game. Is the X button to blame for that ?

Well, the drawing mechanic was also kind of sketchy in Okami...

It is plain and simple drawing, really. It doesn't skip pixels or straighten the curves or anything like that. It's very fluid and clear. What you draw is what you get.
 
Edit: ign says Mario 3d world is coming in December 2013?


It is.

Miyamoto was too busy with Pikmin and a new IP to give us an adventure styled 3D mario

Instead we are left with the obstacle course multiplayer style gameplay that will be released on December.

Time will tell if there are surprises in Mario 3D World. People who have played the demo have said it was great fun.

Kinda like how people were dumbfounded when W101 was first announced and now demo impressions and reviewers are throwing the F
un
word left and right
 
It is.

Miyamoto was too busy with Pikmin and a new IP to give us an adventure styled 3D mario

Instead we are left with the obstacle course multiplayer style gameplay that will be released on December.

Time will tell if there are surprises in Mario 3D World. People who have played the demo have said it was great fun.

Kinda like how people were dumbfounded when W101 was first announced and now demo impressions and reviewers are throwing the F
un
word left and right

That is a downer. I was hoping for sme adventure aspects. I loved that about SM64. The one thing I hated about the video was the timer. I really didnt see the point of it.

I will still give it a chance though.
 
I stopped gaming except for Fifa over the last few years because of school/work but this is the type of stuff that makes me think about starting again. If the 3d Mario looks good, and they put out one other game that interests me, then I will buy a wii u in December. The older I've gotten the more I've begun to lose focus playing more serious games. I just don't have attention span for it.

I think the 3d Mario looks pretty fantastic. And they are actually doing a good job with the music this time. Check out this video: http://youtu.be/YSQ9_XmoC3k, skip to around half way for some of the more interesting level designs.
 
For what it's worth, when SFIV came out and people who had ignored fighting games entirely for 10 years noticed, IIRC there were a handful of reviews that essentially said: this unplayable archaic design shouldn't exist. I can't make a single move come out, controllers have plenty of buttons now, why isn't there just a fireball button!

This can't be true. Jesus...
 
If the W101 demo is enough to judge this, it's nothing like the badness of Okami. That game is straight up broken on Wii. W101 just has a learning curve, that's all.

I was talking of the PS2 version, where it worked most of the time... and not so much in others... but had the advantage of TimeStop and move the camera to adjust were to draw.

Really, like if you are not in a battle, let's say that you are just at the beginning of the demo and you try to do the shapes? Without any pressure. You can't draw them properly?

Well, dunno if a L being is interpreted as l its failure from my part of the detection. But yeah, I way better experience with the analogue.
 
That is a downer. I was hoping for sme adventure aspects. I loved that about SM64. The one thing I hated about the video was the timer. I really didnt see the point of it.

I will still give it a chance though.

It's a downer but if Mario 3D land for the 3DS is anything to go by, this should be a great game regardless of what we wanted or thought it would be.

Again there isnt alot of info outside of the demo and a few levels, so there could be alot that Nintendo is holding close to their chests about the game, so I wouldn't write it off.

The situation with W101 has proven you should't judge a game by someone else's impression of it. Especially if all they did was look at a trailer.
 
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