TheChewyWaffles
Member
They're not wrong. Both sides suck.
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These Arizona Voters think both sides are to blame.
- Thread starter norm9
- Start date
Healthcare IS a mess. It's the number one complaint I hear about Democrats as well. Which of course it's unfair to blame the current situation on Democrats. Republicans wouldn't even give support for the ACA let alone something incredible like universal. Couple that with already rising costs, Republicans trying to sabotage it, etc.
But, Democrats are the easy target for people that are just mad and want somebody to blame. unfortunately they turned to Trump in their desperation and now here we are.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah but dragging Obama thru the mud from the sides of their mouth?
Jeez man
I will agree that we need new faces
We cant trot the same old people back on stage because all the same propaganda is burned into peoples brains
Its almost easier to hit the reset button with the public instead of try to explain Obama isnt the damn devil
I tend to agree. Clinton nor Obama need to be a face for anything come election time. They aren't going to garner support, they are just going to turn away voters that have it in their minds they hate them.
I miss Obama, but I'm glad he's staying away right now.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It's because he's white, and therefore everything he is doing is forgivable.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Republicans got played by Trump, and still hate Obama even though they could have gotten so much from a president who actually cared about the people. Yet they still wanna forgive Trump if he does something and will never like Obama who actually did things. They have issues with racism and democrats that they need to get over. They squander their ability to get what they actually want due to foolishness and racism.
NESpowerhouse
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
Believe me, I've had many an argument with my mother over this topic, but it always comes back to the same old talking points: "We haven't been tracking the climate long enough to truly know if humans have had an impact"; "The climate has always been changing naturally"; "The climate always goes through cycles"; "The federal government shouldn't be wasting tax payer dollars on these environmental programs. If anyone should do it, it should be from the states."
To any rational-minded individual, this sounds like utter nonsense, but no matter how much evidence I through her way, she always shrugs it off as propoganda. And yes, she does watch Fox News quite a bit.
Hey I resent that remark!
Well not really, we're a shit state politically, racially, and in other ways.
If the state starts voting Democrats, then and only then will I make an argument against that. Voting out Jeff the Flake is a good start.
BLM and climate change are always the test. Especially climate change.
We have trusted science over politicians for everything (for good reason) until we get to climate change because the right has gone totally insane these days. The right loves science when it kills people but when the second it might cost rich people some money now it's suddenly a topic for debate. PIt's insane and I just ignore people like that. You can't do that with your mother but I feel like I am losing friends since this past election. And I don't feel any need to meet them in the middle.
I fear for what comes next in this country.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
No it is. People got healthcare and you have to pay more for your abhorrent views so I call that a HUGE improvement.
Muppet of a Man
Member
The only thing that needs to be said about Trump, his ilk, and Republicans in general:
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
-LBJ
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
-LBJ
Stupid bullshit and nothing more.
This is such an important point.
I get free healthcare through work, it's not even taxable, and I always have. It costs my company about $10,000 a year.
Let's say we really get universal healthcare: I expect my taxes would increase AND I don't expect that $10,000 benefit would find its way into my paycheck. I'd be doubly screwed. This is going to be the case for most working Americans.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
It's diablos. Of course it is.
You would be wise to ignore him.
jack_package_200
Banned
You left out the bit of this that means raising everyone's taxes. That said what kills it.
In a sense, they're correct. The issues of the rising precariat class are largely ignored by the political system at large. We care more for low unemployment numbers as opposed to the quality of the jobs people actually have. How foolish.
That said, one party is far more likely to "smarten up" on these issues, as Barack Obama has warned his party to.
They're both "bad" in the sense in that they both lack a good enough vision to solve deep issues, but there is a deep difference between ideas that can be entertained as a solution. We have one party with a narrative to some golden past where the market worked for all, and another who's present narrative is an opposition block, though rightfully so. Neither has their hands on the future in a truly deep and powerful way. We're still working with the carcass of the 20th century, failing to realize we need a new body. UHC, UBI, and universal college are all three pillars that must be linked. Anything less is not handling the world we will see unfolding. Are the Dems universal on any of those...?
People in Arizona are not wrong for feeling hopeless. In the current paradigm, they surely do not have a lifeline back to hopefulness, and nothing's coming any time soon.
That said, one party is far more likely to "smarten up" on these issues, as Barack Obama has warned his party to.
They're both "bad" in the sense in that they both lack a good enough vision to solve deep issues, but there is a deep difference between ideas that can be entertained as a solution. We have one party with a narrative to some golden past where the market worked for all, and another who's present narrative is an opposition block, though rightfully so. Neither has their hands on the future in a truly deep and powerful way. We're still working with the carcass of the 20th century, failing to realize we need a new body. UHC, UBI, and universal college are all three pillars that must be linked. Anything less is not handling the world we will see unfolding. Are the Dems universal on any of those...?
People in Arizona are not wrong for feeling hopeless. In the current paradigm, they surely do not have a lifeline back to hopefulness, and nothing's coming any time soon.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
My dad went on a "both sides" rant after McCain nuked the repeal.
So are Phoenix proper and Flagstaff. It's the Phoenix suburbs and the rural parts of the state that are solid red.
In part because those people have put themselves in that position, after years of consistently making bad choices. At some point the public has to take some blame here for holding idiotic views, simplistic views, hateful views. All the evidence can be seen right there in the article.
DrROBschiz
Member
These are the tough realities both parties need to face moving forward
There are no shortcuts here
Trump is learning the hard way
Dude Abides
Banned
Rubes are angry they got snookered by obvious con, blame everyone but themselves.
Yes, I can see that from the point of view on hating Obama and what the Democrats wanted to do.
But that hits an end point. Look at Coal country. This society really didn't give them a meaningful solution or a way out. Health and agism absolutely play a role in retraining and reemployment, so they had every right, however miscalculated it is, to demand the security of what they have, and that was the reason the orange con man's empty words got them to cheer: he didn't promise to end their lives like his opponent did. I know Hillary didn't personally promise to execute them, but we're a jobs cult culture, so the loss of jobs is the loss of life. This is, next to climate change, the greatest social obstacle of our time, to solve and get out of the mess we've made.
Situations like this exist all over this country. I imagine nearly half of these situations simply wouldn't exist if people had emancipatory programs to lean on, and the failure of having them leads to these localized flashpoints of suffrage.
People were idiots in the deepest sense of the word for believing even one syllable from Donald Trump, but this speaks to deeper issues of precarity, lack of clarity, disinformation, and anti-intellectualism that brews all over the country. This can all mix and a true charlatan can come in and hijack the entire space, which is exactly what happened.
Our issue going forward really is to scope and fix this shit, and we know the GOP will be against it at every inch. They will prey on these people, and they will continue to fall for cons. What are we to do?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Trump's not learning shit.
Fucker thinks he's God.
Fucker thinks he's God.
He wasn't born with the same amount of melanin.
DrROBschiz
Member
I... dont know
I mean it would be nice to have a generation of altruists that have the charisma to draw people in and educate them
New blood and supporting strong leaders is a must going forward.... but in the age of information the opportunity for exploitation is rampant
and VERY profitable. WHen success is tied to spewing evil ignorant bullshit who is going to question it?
By the time people realize they were exploited and conned its already too late and they double down on their psychosis anyways. To accept they were wrong would be to accept responsibility for these terrible mistakes and all the bridges they burned
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Anyone in this "bipartisan group" a minority?
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
They have a problem with progressive stance on climate change? Shit like this blows my mind. I can't comprehend it
Evening Musuko
Black Korea
For fucks sake, he was the GOP nominee. He lost that outsider status as soon as he won the nomination.
Not to mention a big part of why he won was because he was bombastic and hateful. If that was in anyway harmful, he would have crashed and burned as soon as the primaries began. He didn't. He won.
Not to mention a big part of why he won was because he was bombastic and hateful. If that was in anyway harmful, he would have crashed and burned as soon as the primaries began. He didn't. He won.
Indeed, it's a problem of cognitive dissonance. People double down when given a lemon.
But when that lemon has fucked your life, I doubt one is generally going to be humble. That openness has to be learned, but doubling down is kind of a counter-learning to that. This is how the average Trump supporter may think Trump is "keeping his word" on jobs despite all of it being inheritance from Obama.
This is very scary, because we're on the cusp of a labor transformation. When stocks to companies hit record highs when they plan to displace and automate, you know we've slowly entered a new phase. A great deal of our problems depend upon the dependency for jobs, like healthcare, so that's the reason I am harping on this issue primarily, for it's the "spine" to the body. Ask any person struggling what the best solution would be to their financial ills, and it's this cultish thing we've made.
I mean, these same people in manufacturing fell for the free trade took their jobs argument, and for reference, Bernie Sanders ran on the Democratic ticket with that line of bullshit. Politics is slow and on feels, but we need something fast and on facts, otherwise the train is coming off the rails in time.
The good news is Millennials, at least as a generation, won't fall prey to the bullshit as they see this decoupling happening in real time. Just compare the average median income to the average Millennial median income. They won't fall for this, but this leaves a deeper and darker question: what is the mess they will be given? I imagine every fabric of social wellbeing will be severed for most, leading to the continued feeling of enervation seen throughout that entire generation. It's why they make memes of the ills, because they feel powerless to do anything else.
What a shitshow. Ugh.
DrROBschiz
Member
Thats the fucked up part
all the signs were there BEFORE he ran
Hell even in the primaries he was a huge balloon of bad behavior. It was clear as day but i guess the rest of teh 20 or so candidates were so much worse and after all... primaries are all fun and games and about doing rallies and being entertained right?
Fuck man.... Even now that they regret having him in office they still go soft on him. I bet if Trump stopped tweeting everyone would get right back on the bus
Indeed, it's a problem of cognitive dissonance. People double down when given a lemon.
But when that lemon has fucked your life, I doubt one is generally going to be humble. That openness has to be learned, but doubling down is kind of a counter-learning to that. This is how the average Trump supporter may think Trump is "keeping his word" on jobs despite all of it being inheritance from Obama.
This is very scary, because we're on the cusp of a labor transformation. When stocks to companies hit record highs when they plan to displace and automate, you know we've slowly entered a new phase. A great deal of our problems depend upon the dependency for jobs, like healthcare, so that's the reason I am harping on this issue primarily, for it's the "spine" to the body. Ask any person struggling what the best solution would be to their financial ills, and it's this cultish thing we've made.
I mean, these same people in manufacturing fell for the free trade took their jobs argument, and for reference, Bernie Sanders ran on the Democratic ticket with that line of bullshit. Politics is slow and on feels, but we need something fast and on facts, otherwise the train is coming off the rails in time.
The good news is Millennials, at least as a generation, won't fall prey to the bullshit as they see this decoupling happening in real time. Just compare the average median income to the average Millennial median income. They won't fall for this, but this leaves a deeper and darker question: what is the mess they will be given? I imagine every fabric of social wellbeing will be severed for most, leading to the continued feeling of enervation seen throughout that entire generation. It's why they make memes of the ills, because they feel powerless to do anything else.
What a shitshow. Ugh.
Dont get me started on Millenial bashing
Talk about fucked up. The parent and grandparents of the world trying to cut the future off at the knees. How sick to go to war with our children because we somehow think we are superior in an ever changing world where old ideas are no longer viable
Make America Great Again... What a shit slogan. Where the fuck is your time machine because that is the ONLY way youll be able to experience life that way again. Its literally a regressive slogan in itself
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
The GOP was pretty much forced to accept him due to their rules(and the other candidates, lol). This is a large reason why there is and has been so much pressure against him in the GOP. The problem for the GOP is it would have taken a major rule change to stop that train which would expose them as not being representative of their voters.
The DNC were better at staving off the outsider. This Was shown by them letting a Clinton run virtually unopposed.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I'm going to look on the bright side of this (as I'm not currently under existential darkness that dominates spans of 45's presidency), as the support softening; strongly support becoming lightly support, lightly support becoming no opinion, no opinion becoming disapproval.
Just gotta get past that ego first...that, and people to stop misidentifying Dem's "flailing" with the fact they have no direct power in DC...
Just gotta get past that ego first...that, and people to stop misidentifying Dem's "flailing" with the fact they have no direct power in DC...
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Seeing that image always makes me sad without fail
People just chose to be fuckin stupid. It was obvious to anybody willing to live in reality what Trump was, a corporation! The same people that decry money in politics literally voted for what they hated, impersonified. He was a walking billboard for money.
the whole "but he can't be bought" angle people clung to completely ignored the fact money is everything to Trump.
Not surprising. They always hated democrats. They bought the republican lies. Now seeing they are lies, democrats still will never be a real option. The only option is anarchy
Reality is that if you were disillusioned enough to vote trump, then you are too dissilusioned to do anything of value. I mean if you seriously thought that jack ass was gonna do anything else but lie constantly you already lost all faith in everything and will never vote for anything of real value since they are all puppets, as they put it
Reality is that if you were disillusioned enough to vote trump, then you are too dissilusioned to do anything of value. I mean if you seriously thought that jack ass was gonna do anything else but lie constantly you already lost all faith in everything and will never vote for anything of real value since they are all puppets, as they put it
Do you really believe that if Sanders won, we wouldn't be in this situation? Or Hillary? I don't see it.
The GOP was locked for majority power no matter who was top dog. They're the real disease. We're lucky Trump is so fucking incompetent, as he's numbed their sociopathic capabilities: he's so fucking dumb they can't really accomplish their free market, isolationist neoliberal agenda. In this sense he's done good.
Would they work with a Dem as President? They barely did the last seven years..
DrROBschiz
Member
Fuck you are right
In some ways Trump has effectively stalled what could have been an even more terrifying power structure with his constant fuck ups
I dont want to think about a competent GOP member in the seat now
uncredited male
Member
Hoping for Trump to become humble lmao.
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